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Lobbying For Linux 154

Posted by timothy from the man-on-the-ground dept.
Telex4 writes "Slashdot has heard a lot lately about why software patents are bad, and the passage of the legislation in the EU. But other than the online demo and a few pictures of the demonstration outside the European Parliament, Slashdotters hear little about the real behind-the-scenes lobbying. I've just put an article up on Newsforge describing and discussing my experiences lobbying inside the Parliament that might shed a little light on what we mortal geeks can do to save ourselves. There are some accompanying photos on my web site for those who like visual aids." (NewsForge and Slashdot are both part of OSDN.)
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Lobbying For Linux More

Lobbying For Linux

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  • Thank you. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CGP314 ( 672613 ) <CGP@@@ColinGregoryPalmer...net> on Saturday September 20, 2003 @02:46PM (#7013151) Homepage
    I just want to say congratulations for what you have done. Many of us bitch and complain about these issues, but you took time out of your life to do something about it. I just wanted to thank you for that.

  • Why lobby just for Linux? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What about the BSD family?
    • Mostly because BSD doesn't need lobbying.

      BSD doesn't have a license that gets it into all sorts of legal scuffles.

      BSD users don't care what everyone else is using.

      BSD users don't see what they're doing as competing against microsoft. If microsoft went away, they would still be trying to make the best operating systems available.

      We're not looking to take over the world, it's more fun to compute.

  • Cluelessness (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Henry V .009 ( 518000 )
    The cluelessness amoung MEPs is interesting. I am a firm believer that organizational incompetence is the one unifying factor amoung all political systems. Yet these MEPs are the ones will make the decision on this matter affecting everyone. It makes you wonder how many people in government actually know what is going on even a small percentage of the time.
    • I just wonder how well gouvernment would handle things like child care, social welfare, building of highways (NOT information), waste removal or foreign politics if only slashdot approved geeks who spend their time thinking about whether GPL or the bsd-license is better for free software were politicians.

      longest sentence ever (on /. by me)

    • Re:Cluelessness (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @03:01PM (#7013222) Journal
      It is impossible for an individual to know everything about everything.

      If the average Slashdotter sat down with the average politician, and each spoke about political issues, the Slashdotter would educate the politician on computer issues, and the politician would educate the Slashdotter on a hell of a lot more.

      Software (and copyrights/patents) is one tiny aspect of what these people deal with on a daily basis. It's important for people to step up and communicate with them, as the article writer did, because there's no way for the politician and assistants to keep up on EVERY issue with the kind of depth that people around here do on a small handful of issues that pertain to our careers/hobbies.

      • Re:Cluelessness (Score:5, Funny)

        by aardvarkjoe ( 156801 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @03:27PM (#7013327)
        If the average Slashdotter sat down with the average politician, and each spoke about political issues, the Slashdotter would educate the politician on computer issues,

        Yeah, right. The average slashdotter would claim superior knowledge of every aspect of politics, and then call the politician a right-wing Bush-loving freedom-hating corporate whore if the politician disagreed on any point.
    • The cluelessness amoung MEPs is interesting.

      I'd say it's quite understandable. Software patents are a difficult issue,
      they require understanding both the technical and the legal issues.

      Argumenting against software patents is not easy.
      A few bad patents do not necessarily invalidate the principle.

      On the surface, the principle seems quite reasonable: Patents have certainly helped
      every other engineering dicipline - why not software?
      To understand why they are bad requires a detailed understanding of *what* s

    • News flash (Score:5, Insightful)

      by s20451 ( 410424 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @04:04PM (#7013485) Journal
      News flash: Career politicians, like every other human, are not experts in everything.

    • Re:Cluelessness (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Read Icculus ( 606527 )
      I was watching a US House of Reps "Worms and cyber security" subcommmitee on C-SPAN the other day. Testifying before the Congressmen were the following - Microsoft Corp senior security strategist Philip Reitinger, VeriSign VP Kenneth Silva, Lawrence Hale, director of the Federal Computer Incident Response Center, Christoper Wysopal consultant for @stake Inc, some other Russian security consultant, and a few other random folks. The chairman of the committee asked the Verisign PHB and the two consultants if t

  • As Einstein once said... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."

    It's that simple.

  • Lobby for Open Standards (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Brandybuck ( 704397 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @02:56PM (#7013204) Homepage Journal
    Don't lobby for Linux. Besides being a FreeBSD user hating to see EU nations ban everything but Linux, it also doesn't do anything to correct the pervasion monoculture in governments. While 100% use of Linux is better than 100% use of Windows, 100% use of anything is still bad.

    So lobby for Open Source instead. Lobby for Open Standards. Those will also be much easier to get acceptance.

    • Re:Lobby for Open Standards (Score:5, Insightful)

      by axxackall ( 579006 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @03:07PM (#7013249) Homepage Journal
      It's easier to lobby Linux at first. It opens a mind of users. After that it's easier for them to notice other open source systems.

      Besides, 100% of Linux is not a monoculture. There are dozens of distros. There is a competition between Gnome vs KDE vs misc managers. There are various programming languages to code the same projects. Well, even inside Perl there are always more than one way of doing the ame thing (according to Laryy Wall, the creator of Perl). Finally, there will be always PostgreSQL vs MySQL and Emacs vs vi (and even GNU/Emacs vs Xemacs for Emacs winners) - what kind of monoculture do you see here?

      By the way, all those "one vs another" things are OS agnostic. If the decision maker will open the mind enough to get into Linux - in no time the person will notice that all those "vs" are the same inside BSD.

      But if you will bring "Linux vs BSD" right to the lobbying process, those non-techs will decide: "OK, let's them at first decide Linux or BSD and THEN we'll see if it's worthy against Windows!" - you don't want THAT decision, don't you?

      • By the way, I remember such a comment from one of decision makers, when I said that some of our server may run BSD: "BSD? It's a sort of Linux, right? Well, let's decide about Linux in general and later we will specify which distro to use on which computer."

        I know, some BSD funs may dislike it. But in many cases it's really easier to approve "Linux in general" and later specify that sometime it can be BSD :)

        Well, historically Linux was stealing a lot open source applications from BSD world. And that tim

        • I know, some BSD funs may dislike it. But in many cases it's really easier to approve "Linux in general" and later specify that sometime it can be BSD :)

          Indeed. I'm a BSD lover, user, and contributor, and yet I will support each and any initiative that is pro-linux, even if I do not see any reason to use Linux myself, personally.

          Most facilities won't ever consider using BSD. Get over it. All that would have to be sold on open standards and stability versus vendor-lock-in first, so people who won't accep

        • But in many cases it's really easier to approve "Linux in general" and later specify that sometime it can be BSD

          Except we're talking about governments here, not businesses. They might pass a law requiring Linux+KDE+OpenOffice, which would in effect make FreeBSD, GNOME and AbiWord illegal.
          • That would be a law requireing some software to be used inside the goverment itself. The goverment of normal country cannot dictate businesses what software to use. And if it can - then there is somethung wrong with that country and that goverment in general, more generally then just a software or any technology at all. That place, where it's wrong, is called constitution. Go and fix THAT at first, than come back to decide about technologies.

            As for the goverment choice for KDE against GNOME - I have no pr

      • That's not what he's saying. If I understand him correctly, he's saying "Allow people to choose any sort of open source/standards system they choose." Hell, if MicroSoft chose to make all of Windows XP open source tomorrow, and all of the add-on libraries open source too, I don't think there'd be a question of what most government officials would have on their desktop. (As much as I'd prefer it be a *NIX...)

        Point is, help educate at the same time as you are advocating. Advocate choice, advocate open so
        • 99% of typical Microsoft users do not know any difference between Linux and Open Source. And they don't know what are Open Standards. You can spend one more centure educating them that linux is just a kernel, there are many distros on a top of that kerne and there are other kernels as well. Or you can spend some more reasonable time advocating Linux as a concept keeping other Open Source" in mind. What do you prefer?

    • No, lobby for Innovation (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Sanity ( 1431 ) *
      All software innovation is threatened by software patents, not just free software, and not just open standards.

      By making it about free software you weaken the argument, it isn't just about Linux, FreeBSD, or Apache - it is about all software developers that can't afford a large patent portfolio, and it is about all software consumers.

  • What to do? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Elektroschock ( 659467 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @02:57PM (#7013210)
    Time is running out. We will not stop this directive but we can support important amendments filed by some MEPs in order to get a sufficient directive.

    Adresses of EU - representatives

    http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep5/owa/p_meps2.rep ar tition?ipid=0&ilg=EN&iorig=home&imsg=

    personal > telephone call > Fax > letter > email

    The directive is called COM(02)92, it will be voted on Wednesday.

    Info about Amendments (please directly refer to these, no general texts, the first link is a must read):

    http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swpat0202/pl en 0309/index.en.html
    http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/ eubsa-swpat0202/plen 0309/kond/index.en.html

    It is especially useful to support Mrs. Kauppi against patent radical Wurmling in the conservative group

    http://swpat.ffii.org/#wuermeling-pr030919

    Background

    General:
    http://swpat.ffii.org/analyse/index.de.html

    Technical contribution (what is really meant, we want a definition in the directive based on the "natural forces" theory):
    http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swpa t0202/tech /index.en.html

    Program claims (dangerous for web site owners):
    http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swpa t0202/prog /index.en.html

    Interoperability (support ITRE against Juri proposal)
    http://swpat.ffii.org/papiere/eubsa-swp at0202/itop /index.en.html

    Don't write to Green party members or EFA as they are convinced yet, focus on Liberals, Conservative(Finnish MEP Kauppi has made good amendments)
    and Social democrats

    One of the funniest arguments was Wurmling's text who stated that Eolas vs. Microsoft showed best practise for SME. Incompetence and lies rule within the EU parliament. We shall not let patent lawyer interest groups win this battle.
  • The debate over the use of open-source software is underway [news.com.au], with the ALP [alp.org.au]adopting a strong pro open-source policy.

    It will be interesting to see if they actually do anything about it when the conservatives finally get dumped.

  • Caroline Lucas and the Greens (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nickos ( 91443 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @03:03PM (#7013238)
    Of all of my local MEPs that I've emailed, Caroline Lucas (Green) has been both the most responsive, and the most supportive of our position. If they were only pro-Euro, they'd get my vote every time...

    (Christopher Hume (LibDem) has sent me a number of letters, the most recent of which (16/09/2003) says that "software should not be patentable simply because it is running on generic computer equipment", and goes on to say that they want a Directive to "enforce the original EPC, rather than codifying what has become common practice - and illegal practice - of allowing the patenting of computer-implemented inventions".)

  • Lobbying w/out FFS europe? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by __past__ ( 542467 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @03:04PM (#7013239)
    Being unemployed (hence having lots of free time), living in western germany (hence being able to travel to Brussels easily) and being a free software supporter, even with some experience in political work (from being a students representative of various kinds back when life rocked), I'd like to contribute to effective lobbying in the EU. However, the only really serious EU-wide organization seems to be the FSF Europe, and I happen to disagree with the FSF on some major points. (And there's Attac, which I happen to disagree on more points with.) There doesn't seem to be any organized forums for european FLOSS supporters outside the FSF Europe right now, or is there? Maybe something more "Open Source"-related? Is there a way for someone who's experience ranges from writing code over writing press releases to organizing demonstations and legal help for demonstrators to throwing yoghurt at malevolent policemen to effectively contribute, without having to adopt the FFS mantra?
    • >without having to adopt the FFS mantra?

      Why you have to follow entire "fsf mantra" to fight softwre patents ? If you see that software patents are dangerous and to be opposed , then cooperate with EVERYONE who share that view. You can never get somebody with which you agree 100% and in all the issues. People disagree a lot. But often they find common goals and move united. Even FSF and open source movement cooperate a lot in many areas despite having some fundamental ideological differences.

      • Why you have to follow entire "fsf mantra" to fight softwre patents ? If you see that software patents are dangerous and to be opposed , then cooperate with EVERYONE who share that view.

        I do. I support the FSF Europe where I can and where I think that it makes sense. I signed the online petition against software patents, and have been present at the demo in Brussels. However, if I have learned one thing about politics, it's that you'd better have a huge organization behind you if you want to make a point,

        • I am not denying the fact that its better to have a huge organization. But when thats NOT the case, live with it. Cooperate with everyone who share your idea/goal in atleast this matter and move forward. It makes sense than waiting forever for the "huge organization" which may not be the case in real life. But in your case, you have followed exactly what I have meant and I appreciate that indeed. On the other hand, it seems to me that parent posteer has not followed this way and thats why I posted the my o

    • Re:Lobbying w/out FFS europe? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Elektroschock ( 659467 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @03:27PM (#7013330)
      Why don't you become a member of FFII? Although they are associated with FSF Europe. However, FSF does very little in the debate. It is more or less managed by FFII and it's European supporters (AEL.be, AFUL, Vrijschrift, EDRI, ecc.).

      http://swpat.ffii.org

      https://www.ffii.org/ffii-cgi/eintrag?m=login
    • Is not your enemy's enemy sometimes your friend?

  • Lobby to shut down the bastards!!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by rice_burners_suck ( 243660 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @03:05PM (#7013242)
    I know... Let's lobby to pass legislation that any commercial organization or group that in any way threatens free software will be automatically shut down by the government. People who do so will be shot.

    Organizations that lobby to pass free-software-unfriendly legislation will be shut down immediately after they begin lobbying.

    Companies that write software that produces unpublicized data formats will be shut down.

    People who review free software and compare it to commercial software, and who point out any sort of disadvantage to using the free software, or any advantage to using the commercial software, will be shot immediately.

  • I didn't vote for Britain to join the EU, my parents generation did. I have never had the chance to vote for a European member of parliament - or indeed the chance to spoil my ballot paper. When are these elections held? I'm on the electoral register and have been for years - I've voted in two general elections and a number of local elections, I may have moved a couple of times but I've never had any notice or ballot cards through for European elections, not once.

    Britain seems to be the only country that p
    • Britian not in the EU: Madame Arlene McCarthy and the radical Uk patent movement would be left off the fences.
    • Euro elections are held every 5 years.

      The last UK Europarl election was on June 10 1999.

      If you are on the electoral roll you will get a ballot card for all elections at all levels. If you are not sure whether you are registered, fill out the Electoral Commission [electoralc...ion.org.uk] form and send it to your local registry.

      There is nothing special about Euro elections as far as registration/notification is concerned.

      I'm not sure I follow your other concerns - can you elucidate?
    • The next EU election will be on June 13th, 2004. Some countries will also use this date to make a referend about the EU constitution, go vote.

      • The next EU election will be on June 13th, 2004

        Depends where you live. June 10th in the UK, we don't do Sunday elections. What's more, the government has moved the UK local elections from May to 10th June in an attempt to increase turnout at the European elections, on the grounds that people will go out to vote for their local councils and might as well vote for the European parliament at the same time.

        The other theory, the one I believe, is that people will think "oh, it's the European election today, h
        • The other theory, the one I believe, is that people will think "oh, it's the European election today, how boring" and stay at home, so the net result will be a decrease in turnout for the local elections.

          We need only look to the recent by-election turnout...

          • You usually win an election by winning on differential turnout - getting your people to turn out and the opposition to stay at home. Usually you don't win by persuading people to change their vote.

            In Brent East the four hundred activists were told "go out and get 20 votes each and we've won". They succeeded. But the opposition didn't; hence result.
    • Well you can have a chance to vote next year since you missed the election in 1999.

      You can find out who your MEP is here [europarl.org.uk] and complain to them.

    • When are these elections held? I'm on the electoral register and have been for years - I've voted in two general elections and a number of local elections, I may have moved a couple of times but I've never had any notice or ballot cards through for European elections, not once.

      EU parliament positions are generally for a duration of 5 years, and are usually similar to national elections (I'm not sure if there's still a representative vote in some member states). For the UK, this means parliament members ar

    • Did you vote for every Act of Parliament? Oh dude, we really ought to have an annual vote on that, in case people disagree with parts of it. Come to think of it, maybe we ought to have them monthly, just in case people don't like to spend a month being so "undemocratic".

      Your comment is right up there with the most ludicrous Euro-sceptic comments I've read. If you want your views represented, go to your local MEPs and make them known. If you're in a tiny minority, and your minority's views aren't compatable
    • Oh God, another little-Englander. When will people like you get with the program, and realise that the EU is here to stay, that it's good for Britain, and that it's in our interests to be actively involved in all apsects of it so that we can shape it from within...

      My only problem with it is that it's not as democratic as I would like it to be, and that was largely due to the fact that the Brits and Scandinavians weren't in it at the beginning. Maastricht saw a sea change, and the new constitution should he
  • Maybe this is old news, but funny nonetheless in this context: Resources for competing with Linux [microsoft.com]
  • This may be slightly offtopic, but it relates, I believe, so here it is.

    Software (code) is a lot like music. Its really complicated in the end, but the pieces that it is made up of (chords, phrases, arpeggios, melody lines, etc) can be very simple. In fact, basic chord progressions are reused so many times it borders on the ridiculous. In the same way, certain pieces of code are re-used in a similar form many times. If someone can get a software patent on smallish pieces of code, like getting a copyright o
  • Timothy!

    Looked at the photos...

    Good God man, sit up straight!

    Tuck your shirt in!

    Comb your hair!

    Eat somethin, for the love of God, you look like your going to blow away in the wind!

    I hope the trip didn't include a hunger strike.

    At least you didn't mention one.

    Other than that, good job!

    -Hack
  • Software patents are bad, mmmmkaaay??

  • Keep fighting! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lodragandraoidh ( 639696 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @09:26PM (#7015053) Journal
    Just to echo what others have said, you are an inspiration to us all - even those of us not directly involved with the European Union (from Texas here - :)

    Bravo - well done!

    I am afraid it will take the man in the street getting hit by a two-by-four in the forehead before real grass roots pressure can be brought to bear on these issues. Unfortunately, by then, the internet and software development as we have known it may have gone the way of the Dodo...

  • Happy penguins! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by An Onerous Coward ( 222037 ) on Saturday September 20, 2003 @10:26PM (#7015289) Homepage
    "What really made our day, and blew away all our expectations, occurred when we mentioned the word "Linux" to Sturdy's assistant; "ah, happy Penguins!" she said, and our faces lit up."
    I tell you what, Tux has always been the secret weapon of Linux. One of my old co-workers, an adorably technophobic lady who couldn't quite grasp the concept of the "operating system", calls him "The Penguin Buddha [linux.org]". He does give off an aura of serene cuteness that makes the Windows logo appear bland and forgettable by comparison.

    It's simple marketing: See the penguin. He is happy. Use Linux, and you will be happy.

    Happy penguins to all, and to all a good night.
  • not more hackers playing politics.

    I have seen so many arguments alleging cluelessness on the parts of politicians, simply because you disagree with their positions and where in the end they might come out. This is naive and arrogant in the extreme. And the more we do this, the more we actually help those seeking stronger technology regulation. What fools we can be sometimes.

    In the ongoing debates, I have pointed out the hopelessness and fallacy of taking extreme and unprovable positions in opposition t
    • While the legislation is similar, which is hardly surprising considering the real points of origin, the situations in the EU and US are completely different. Look up my post on this thread for discussion of the EU situation. It appears that people from our community talking to theirs may actually be able to work out common ground and come up to a consensus. In large part, because the US "points of origin" (the Hollywood cartel and Microsoft/BSA) can not throw around millions in campaign cash into EU electio
      • In a real sense, how "extreme" the concerns of the community in favor of freedom for computer users and developers are completely irrelevant.

        No, the concerns become irrelevant when we make extreme and unsupportable statements. Take extreme views, and get ignored. You may think you need to go to a new country -- I have quite effectively lobbied against the very interests you claim to be untouchable -- and it was not by taking extreme positions.

        Your nihilism is disturbing.
        • No, the concerns become irrelevant when we make extreme and unsupportable statements. Take extreme views, and get ignored. You may think you need to go to a new country -- I have quite effectively lobbied against the very interests you claim to be untouchable -- and it was not by taking extreme positions.

          Evidence, please. That you have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about or that your lobbying has had any effect will do. Has the DMCA disappeared before your eyes or something?

  • what a difference (Score:4, Interesting)

    by alizard ( 107678 ) <alizard AT ecis DOT com> on Sunday September 21, 2003 @01:57AM (#7016121) Homepage
    Public campaign financing makes. While I've heard there are serious problems with the EU government as a functioning democracy, I was very impressed to find that MEPs with staff members willing to spend 45 minutes listening to individuals not representing massive multinationals or organized pressure groups, and staff members willing to admit that they really didn't understand the issues and were willing to accept help from "just plain folk".

    Of course, the main factor here that helped is that the positions of the MEPs were not formulated to win campaign contributions from lobbyists.

    In the "land of democracy", the chances that a handful of people can actually get people to listen without massive campaign budgets are a lot smaller.

    As I've said, though the EU has done some very wrongheaded things with respect to legislation and technology, the odds on getting them to stop doing them may be considerably better than in the USA if individuals will organize and put in their time and individual-scale money to . . . do something. The war isn't lost there yet. Perhaps it won't be.

    The one point that I think based on the article didn't get made as strongly as it should be is that NOT passing software patent bills gives the EU an advantage the USA with respect to individual and small business contributions to technology of the sort that leads to businesses that provides jobs and that the EU can tax.

    Remember that the committments of legislators to follow the lead of the US aren't as strong as that of US legislators who got campaign contribution from interested multinationals, i.e. except for a few, I'd guess that a great many are willing to listen to reason if the reason is put in terms that they can understand.

    Props to the people who lobbied on behalf of us all.

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