U.S. Postal Service To Develop 'Intelligent Mail' 345
securitas writes "The President's Commission on the U.S. Postal Service's final report (PDF) has recommended that the USPS and the Department of Homeland Security develop sender identification technology for all U.S. mail. The commission said Intelligent Mail could bolster security and let consumers track the progress of all mail they send, which has been a top consumer demand in surveys. The report released July 31 reads, "Each piece of Intelligent Mail will carry a
unique, machine-readable barcode (or other indicia) that will
identify, at a minimum, the sender, the destination, and the class
of mail... Intelligent Mail will allow the
real-time tracking of individual mail pieces." Privacy advocates like the EFF and Center for Democracy & Technology are understandably concerned. The Final Recommendations are available in PDF format. More at Direct Marketers News and pro-privacy/civil liberties magazine Counterpunch."
Jamie adds: This confuses me, because I read a news story in late 2001 which matter-of-factly explained that authorities would be contacting recipients of letters which went through a particular post office around the same time as an anthrax envelope. The implication, which I haven't seen any discussion of then or since, is that records are kept of every letter's travels through every post office. Anyone know anything about that?
Update:
mec does.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:RFID (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:RFID (Score:2, Funny)
Years ago it was "too expensive" to have a computer in your home. Good thing nobody threw the idea out citing the fact that we already have "infrastructure in place" to use typewriters.
Re:RFID (Score:2, Informative)
The barcode would have to indicate the class of mail (not difficult), the sender (tricky if not impossible), and the destination (definitely impossible to determine at time of sale of the stamp).
Let's assume the destination isn't a big deal and just focus on how to identify the sender. Sometimes I buy stamps in rolls of 100. I order them by mail, and I'm the only one who uses them. So that would be pretty easy for the post office to handle.
Other peop
Re:RFID (Score:3, Insightful)
That would mean no more stamps from a vending machine, and probably no more stamps from the convenience store (since the barcode-printing setup would probably be too expensive/cumbersome to install).
Also, if there is indeed some kind of identifi
Re:RFID (Score:2)
Pay by credit card, then its all connected
Either that- or for cash stamps you have to scan the stamp when you drop it off- this can be as low tek as forcing you to drop off at the window, where they check ids (which can be forged... but we'll ignore that for now) or drop off kiosks which ask you to insert
It's not quite that bad (Score:2)
This is just expanding an already good system to the regular mail. If it can be done reasonably fast and efficiently, I see no problems here.
The benefits are good and I'm not worried that any government thugs will be obscesssed
Re:It's not quite that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly how is this going to work? No more corner mail boxes? You now have to go to the post office and present an ID to mail a letter? Or you have to present an ID to get stamps encoded with a particular bar code? No more stamp machines, and it's illegal to loan a stamp to your neighbor?
I routinely mail envelopes with no return address. If I do this in the future, am I going
Now all they need are (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Now all they need are (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now all they need are (Score:3, Funny)
The postman said "You shouldn't write No Such Address, this Address exists, you live here!"
I tried to explain that I wrote "addressee" and that the *person* didn't live here. That didn't work so I apologized for my 'error' and went on my way.
Re:Now all they need are (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Now all they need are (Score:3, Interesting)
My experience shows quite the opposite. They have no clue whatsoever what they're supposed to do.
I went to my post office the other day. I wanted to get a mailbox. First, they told me that they'll send a registered letter to my home address, and that I'll have to bring it back to the post office to prove that I did not give them a fake home address.
So, a few days later I don't get the letter, but a notice to go back to the po
13 unions (Score:2, Insightful)
management is also a serious problem. he was telling me that when a circumstance that requires a manager comes up, they all hide. when its over, they come out. ridiculous.
Re:13 unions (Score:2)
I think it's actually because of the union that they work you so hard. If this job didn't have high pay (because it's unionized), only the biggest masochists would put up with this job. That's probably why my other jobs were easier - if they had trea
Big brother going postal? (Score:2, Insightful)
how would this be possible? I assumed they were expecting recipients to get in touch wit
Re:Big brother going postal? (Score:2)
Re:Big brother going postal? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Big brother going postal? (Score:2)
Re:A possible way... (Score:2, Informative)
Sender == The person from whom the letter is sent. This is not always available, and even when it is available, there is no way to verify that it originated there.
Bottom line: Jaime's comment is really stupid. OF COURSE they have information relating to who got mail. That has nothing to do with information relating to who SENT mail.
Re:A possible way... (Score:3, Informative)
Tracking of Anthrax Letter Yields Clues [ucla.edu]
I also remember reading that they save the sender's information as well. It was in an anthrax story that said they went to all the curbside mailboxes where all the pieces that were close to an anthrax-related piece had been sent.
UK mail (Score:5, Interesting)
Not sure how you are going to identify the sender AND have postboxes where anyone can post a letter.
Re:UK mail (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:UK mail (Score:2)
Re:UK mail (Score:2)
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Make sure to go out and buy special $2.10 stamps to use with your existing $0.37 ones.
No, it's $10.70 (Score:2)
Express mail rates [usps.gov]
Seriously, the obvious solution is a second stamp (Score:2)
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Can you name a private carrier who will deliver to every single US address, and who will pick up anything for under a dollar? The U
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
No, because NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO. The only thing the USPS will pick up from you (maybe, though good luck actually getting them to come within one hundred yards of your actual physical door) is a letter. They have a government mandated monopoly on delivering them. Period, full stop. They have this monopoly in return for guaranteeing that they will serve absolutely everyone, no m
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
EXACTLY. You hit the nail on the head.
Seriously, look at it this way - I need you to take these pieces of paper, deliver them across the country, in less than a week, to Upper Moosejaw, Montana. My uncle Steve's house.
He lives at the end of a dirt road, somewhere. I think. Past the shell station, on the left?
So, yeah. To do this, I'll give you $.37.
Hey, I consider that a deal. =)
HA! (Score:5, Informative)
Having worked at a post office clerk in a former life, I would say you must be kidding. I personally handled 25,000 letters a day, and I wasn't in automation, which does 50,000 letters per station per hour. You just don't have time to record any sort of information about first class mail.
What they probably meant is that they would check on letters with return addresses or was sent registered or certified. Registered, Certified and Insured mail DID get that sort of record keeping, for obvious reasons.
Re:HA! (Score:2)
Re:HA! (Score:2)
They could probably also get some information on bulk mailings, too, though that'd be through more indirect means.
Inconvenience is overwhelming (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Inconvenience is overwhelming (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Inconvenience is overwhelming (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Inconvenience is overwhelming (Score:2)
Same thing could easily happen in the US...
Remember folks... eternal vigilance is the price.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If we turn lazy and complacent, the price will be our own freedom.
Re:Remember folks... eternal vigilance is the pric (Score:2, Interesting)
If you live in the US, I think the bulk of that price has already been extracted. Now it is just a matter of tightening the screws, and cleaning up loose ends.
Take a step back and look at everything that has happened over the past few years. From rigged elections to people being held without charges being laid to the Patriot Act just to name a few.
Fortunately the freedom to leave is still available, but I think that is because it is too e
Re:Vigilance in Security is in Dire Need (Score:2)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Re:Vigilance in Security is in Dire Need (Score:2)
Preventing the post office/gov't from opening and looking at a letter's contents WITHOUT a warrant IS an essential liberty.
People who put their neighbors at risk defending non-existent, non-essential liberties are a threat to society.
Re:Vigilance in Security is in Dire Need (Score:3, Insightful)
I think Ben would dissagree with you. [pbs.org]
Re:Vigilance in Security is in Dire Need (Score:2)
Being able to mail a letter anonymously is not an essential liberty.
Being free from being thrown in jail for, oh, I don't know, saying something like: You suck and those boys died, to the President of the United States IS an essential liberty. But instead of grabbing the pitchforks when Clinton and his thugs threw a lady in Chicao in jail for saying just that, slashdotters get their shorts all in a bind o
tracking every peice of mail (Score:3, Insightful)
Logistics? (Score:3, Interesting)
Really, if we can't keep Social Security organized, don't know who has entered the country, and allow thousands of people escape paying taxes every year, are we going to be able to keep track of every single person living in the country via the Post Office?
I don't know -- I can't see this being very useful. If I want to track a mailing, I'll use Fed Ex. I just don't see the "consumer demand" for this, and I can't see it being at all useful for making our mail "safer".
Re:Logistics? (Score:2)
Voluntary only (Score:2)
So no - I don't think this is a bad idea.
As long as it is voluntary. Nobody should be forced to identify themselves in the mail. I still believe that a working democracy absolutely depends on anominity - the ability to state your opinions without worrying about government/oppressive majority/violent minority acting against you.
Would I use it? Eh
I'd be happy... (Score:2)
Privacy advocates have nothing to worry about (Score:2)
Re:Privacy advocates have nothing to worry about (Score:2)
By law your bank must either return these to you or retain the check or its image for 12 (IIRC) years. Proving that the CC company cached and mis-applied the funds takes a 5 minute telephone converstation with the bank, or perhaps 10 minutes of searching through your chech storage.
Yes I've done this with credit and telephone companies, as well as the U.S. IRS.
Re:Privacy advocates have nothing to worry about (Score:2)
Yeah, and in related news Laurel and Hardy will be cooperating to invent a rocket car that can fly to the moon. God love the post office but they're perpetually fighting to stay solvent, and the OHS is just a joke, period. Beyond seven hundred questionable terrorist alerts and some pamphleteering of Tom Mix style personal survival tips that make about as m
OpenPGP? (Score:2)
Oh of course... cryptography is bad and used by terrorists.
Not a bad idea... (Score:2)
Re:Not a bad idea... (Score:2)
The ZIP+4 coding already allows the USPS to narrow your location down to a particular side street. It would only take perhaps two more digits to codify your exact location.
The problem is that for the majority of the people in the country, there is a strong phycological opposition to being labeled as a number. Having to tell someone you are
Quote "The Drumhead" - TNG (Score:2)
The Drumhead [newhorizonsdesign.com]
Re:Quote "The Drumhead" - TNG (Score:2)
Nice to see Star Trek carrying on it's hallowed tradition of split infinitives.
So what? Oh, wait... (Score:5, Insightful)
From page xvii of the report:
"Intelligent Mail could allow the Postal Service to permit mail-tracking and other in-demand services via a robust website..."
So it seems like they're going the UPS/FedEx route, and making it a useful tool for users of the postal system.
However, later on in the report (pp. 147-148):
"Intelligent Mail's Security Applications Should be Aggressively Pursued"
"Requiring all mail to identify its sender would likely have a negligible impact on most users...[they] would consider such a requirement a relatively modest concession to ensure their safety"
They're using the same flawed argument that they used in many post-9/11 dealings, including the Patriot Act. Great.
UPS (Score:2)
The potential problems are:
1) You don't know your tracking number unless you send it from the post office.
2) The government can now automate "who sent letters to x, ever?"
I don't see this really helping in terrorism prevention though, the post office already stamps the letter with the first office it goes t
"consumer demand" (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, when they say "consumer demand" they're really talking about businesses' demands, but calling it "consumer demand" makes it look less like a privacy issue.
There are privacy concerns, but.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's look at a certain detail and some historical fact:
The information meant to be encoded isn't anything that is not already available on the front of the envelope.
The USPS has a history of telling the government to go fuck itself when the government says "we want to do <some privacy violating activity>". For example, the Postal Service said "no" strongly to the government's request to inspect packages and have the USPS engage in TIPS. (Anyone care to fill int the details here?)
Yes, there's
USPS already has some systems that help track mail (Score:3, Interesting)
Didja know that USPS uses Linux systems to do OCR on address information? It's the only serious use of Linux at USPS, mostly due to anal government service employees who barely managed to finish high school and who can't be fired due to union seniority.
Actually, USPS has been looking into a mail tracking system since just after 9/11 (I worked there on and after 9/11 for a while) and this report will just help them get funding for that system.
Really, this isn't a terribly bad thing. If you think about it, it just verifies what post office the mail came from. The information about the sender is going to be the information that the sender presented at the post office of origin for verification.... to a non-trained government employee who probably could make more cash working at mcdonalds (no bull, I have a great deal of respect for those letter carriers... out in all weather, and most get paid about $20k a year).
I also can't imagine that there will be human checks of the sender information in a lot of cases, since there are drop boxes all over the place for mail, and there's no way they can either remove those or staff them with people.
Yet another easily subvertable federal system meant to make us safer, but really just another way to spend gobs of your tax dollars on things we need less than more prisons and better schools.
Erik
Re:USPS already has some systems that help track m (Score:2)
Privacy Concerns (Score:2)
As far as UPS/etc... I'm sure their records can be subpoenaed via the patriot act anyway.. so its not much different, just an extension..
"for my protection my ass"
Not a privacy issue (Score:2)
Re:Not a privacy issue (Score:2)
Don't assume everyone else has the same feelings about this that you do.
I for one routinely get anonymous leads about abuses in the legal system mailed to me. Those leads often turn into government reform, and I would probably get much fewer of them if people thought they would be identified.
Anonymity is a corner stone of liberty.
Re:Not a privacy issue (Score:2)
Sigh... (Score:4, Insightful)
Boggle.
I am waiting for the moment when it occurs to these people that it's too easy to use the USA road system for criminal or terrorist activity. Or just sidewalks, for that matter.
Thank god that they don't have any idea that computer networks exist. If they are that apprehensive about a postal system, just imagine the hysterics they'll have when they discover the Internet...
Some people still rely heavily on Snail Mail... (Score:4, Interesting)
what would be outstanding... (Score:2)
or sane ones...
but that reminds me of an acquaintance from a few years ago. he worked for the USPS in one of their mail rooms. his job was to check that the zip codes on their letters that whizzed by him on a belt had the right zip code.
that's right - all day long, one letter after another.
kinda explains why people do stuff like this [disgruntledzone.com]
Optional? (Score:2)
But seriously, this would be a great optional thing, and a much cheaper solution than fedexing something if you want to track it. But it woul
There is already s system partially in place (Score:4, Informative)
Compare with UPS and Fedex (Score:2)
UPS, in particular, has the 2-D barcode, and I don't have any idea what's encoded in that. Both UPS and Fedex certainly have "Tracking numbers" which is an effectively unique identifier in their databases for everything to do with a particular package, even if all that information
Re:Compare with UPS and Fedex (Score:2)
Re:Compare with UPS and Fedex (Score:2)
Delivery confirmation is part-way there but not all the way there. Database-wise only a single entry is made, and that's at the point of delivery. I think that what is being proposed tracks every item through every single step of the entry/sorting/distribution/sorting/distribution/so rting/delivery process, in particular down to the "which sorting machine
Re:Compare with UPS and Fedex (Score:2)
Yeah, that will keep the cost of mail down. . . (Score:2)
What about those of us who want to send Christmas cards cheap?
So now you'll have to show ID (Score:2, Insightful)
Or to subscribe to a "subversive" newsletter?
Everything going to your house will be machine readable which
means that machines WILL read who gets what and store that information in a database.
Admiral P0intyhead is having wet dreams over this. TIA dead?? Think again.
They just keep throwing all these schemes out, like trolling.
They see who squeals, how many squeal and how loud.
After awhile people get numb to all the numbskull schemes and
they just begin to ignore them. That's
USPS should offer direct-mail spam-blocking (Score:3, Funny)
225 Shoreway Road
San Carlos, California 94070
Attn: Mixed paper recycling.
P.O. already keeps image of each envelope (Score:5, Interesting)
Postal Theory: Mail Sorter Acted as Mill for Anthrax [ucla.edu]
Read down towards the bottom:
Potentially telltale mail was identified using masses of computer data recorded as each letter entering the highly automated sorting centers is scanned for an address, given identifying bar codes recording its time and place of posting, and sent on its way.
The data include digital images of almost every hand-addressed envelope, which optical scanners cannot easily read, postal officials said.
The big question is: will the post office stop delivering mail that doesn't have a valid return address?
In the time of the Unabomer, the PO stopped delivering mail that weighs over one pound and came from a collection box. Mail that weighs over one pound has to be brought in person to a post office.
scanners (Score:3, Informative)
A few thoughts (Score:2)
Probably not. The plan there was probably to send out a blanket mailing to every customer on every route serviced by that post office. It's fairly simply to do, mass marketers and local governments do this all the time.
Sender authentication will be difficult at best, and will (depending on actual rules/laws) be resisted by dir
wrong, fedex has no sender authentication (Score:2)
I don't know how UPS does it because I haven't used UPS that way. I've shipped UPS packages from Mailbox Etc. type stores though, an
Zip Codes are meaningless... (Score:2)
WRONG! (Score:2)
USPS already has this (Score:4, Informative)
Ah, you don't need it there in one or two days or in a lockbox? Sorry, you can only confirm delivery with the other trackable services they offer - certified, insured, merch return receipt ("brown label"), delivery or signature confirmation (which are only offered for priority mail (which is pretty much just first class mail weighing more than 13 ounces)), etc. And again, those only update once per day.
Keep in mind that this is a government run institution, so their internal capabilities are pretty underwhelming - as such, the ability to track mail in real time (something that all private overnight couriers offer) would be far too overwhelming to the USPS. If you want to know how underwhelming, to give you an idea, last I checked our local processing and distribution facility in Anaheim Hills, there was a bank of XTs and PC286 machines whose purpose in life it was to handle the scanning of PostNET barcodes (you know, those dual-length lines you'll probably find near the address or bottom of the envelope on an article of snail mail you get if you're in the US.) Now just think, do you think that they're going to use a beowulf cluster of 286 and XT boxen to electronically store every article of mail that passes through this little rinky-dink P&DF (one fo two in Orange County, CA)? They pass tons of mail per day, they just don't have the power there, and if they're still running said boxes, do you think they're going to fix what ain't broke? This is the government we're talking about.
Said barcode, by the way, is a twelve digit code that pretty much boils down to which box the letter lands in, with an added check digit (each digit in the 11 digit portion is added together, check is n, where n is the next multiple of 10 minus the total of the added numbers). Hardly privacy invasion. Example: PO Box 62 in Fullerton 92836 would wind up being a barcode that reads "928360062626". (The total of the first eleven is 44, next mult of 10 is 50, ergo 50-44=6.)
Don't even ask how I know this shite, it's less painful.
Or, this is different from USPS how? (Score:3, Informative)
Of corse, it costs extra. But why force everyone to pay for it?
I am a US Postal Employee (Score:5, Insightful)
How the badly addressed mail process works in short:
Mail is brought to the General Mail Facility, where it is run through machines that attempt to read the addresses. The software isn't perfect, quite a few aren't readable to it. The digital image is sent to various Remote Encoding Sites in which people (like me) try to decipher the addresses and input them properly. The information is sent back to the GMF, barcode is printed on, and the piece goes its way. If we cannot decipher it, the image gets rejected, and the mailpiece goes to manual sorting.
Why it takes so long sometimes
A tremendous amount of people do not know how to address. They do not include directionals. They do not include street suffixes. Transposition of zip codes, or downright incorrect ones in contrast to the city destination. If you want your mail to get somewhere fast, place a Zip+4 and make sure it is correct. That is the first number we look at.
Directionals and suffixes are important. An especially frustrating case is the Kansas City metro area. Where there can be a 31st Street, Place, Avenue, Road, Circle, Court, Terrace. On top of that, North/South/East/West.
Abbreviation of streets and cities is another frustrating issue. I work in Wichita, KS. We receive images from facilities in Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, and New York. Some street in Minneapolis with a long name that is routinely abbreviated by residents is foreign to those 800 miles away. Please write the street in full.
Zip Codes. These are very important. The computers read these first. We read these first. An irritating tendancy for people in the northeast is to drop off the 0 in their 5 digit zips. This is especially true in Connecticut. Ever wonder why sometimes it really takes 7-9 days for something to go across town? Because its getting sent to Kansas City and run through the system before it gets straightened out and sent back.
Lastly, bad handwriting. Try to be careful about 5 and S, Zero and O, and 9 and 4.
Re:I am a US Postal Employee (Score:5, Insightful)
What about kiosks at post ofices where you can enter an address and it either asks for clarification (did you mean Main Street or Main Boulevard? Is is South Main Street or North Main Street) or gives you the zip+5
Re:I am a US Postal Employee (Score:2)
It is a FAQ [usps.com].
Then again, you'd think people would know by now that machine printed correct addresses get your mail sorted quickest..
Electronic stamps usually include the sender's and recipients address right in the funky looking 2D barcode - even better, because the error rate is much lower than OCR, and a printed address is still there for backwards compatibility.
Re:I am a US Postal Employee (Score:2)
The document is useful but the post above goes into much more detail, and is more emphatic. Would be good to include these points in the USPS site AND make sure it gets out there
Re:I am a US Postal Employee (Score:3, Insightful)
For example, the US postal office has access to lists of people and their addresses--if someone writes "1234 31st Street" instead of "1234 31st Avenue", then that should be easy to correct since there is unlikely to be a "Peter Clark" living at both places.
Maybe the US postal system should advise cities to change street names, or maybe it should introd
Re:I am a US Postal Employee (Score:2, Informative)
BIG Misconception - We don't give a damn about anything above the address line unless it is a business/non-person entity, or a building (by name).
You could be John Smith Jr and get mail addressed as Michael Jackson. As long as the address is correct, it goes there.
I said specifically, MOST of the problem lies with bad addressing. Granted things happen like letters getting stuck in mail trays at facilities and not being discovered for a few days, but putting mail through
Re:I am a US Postal Employee (Score:2)
Wait, wait, my mistake-- what I should have said was "You need to get your head out of your ass, and realize that the post office deals with a greater volume than you could probably imagine."
I suppose the system could work like you
Re:I am a US Postal Employee (Score:2)
Isn't that -1 Redundant?
--
STFU please (Score:2)
Just a shout out to the USPS, especially t
No saturday? (Score:2)
IMHO, I'd rather they mix it up - maybe a "no wednesday" system so I wouldn't go 2 days without getting mail. But then again, I Am Not A Business.
Re:The Old Mail system. (Score:2, Interesting)
What do you mean by this? anonymous emailing through your ISP? Surely you jest. You can trace headers to find out where the email came from. You can send a subpoena to the ISP like the RIAA to get name-address from an IP number. ISP's hold on to your email "forever" even if you "delete" it.
Maybe you're thinking of encrypting an email. Well sure, you could, but you can just as