Microsoft Patenting IM Translation?

theodp writes "The USPTO just published Microsoft's patent application for a Method and system for translating instant messages, in which the software giant demonstrates how an English-speaking sender can type 'Hi' in an IM and it will be translated to 'Hola' for a Spanish-speaking recipient."

A couple thoughts

[Raindance]

Now, that this is a patent grab exploiting a broken system, is fairly evident. However, two thoughts:

1. This patent is described as setting forth "A method and system translating instant messages between users who communicate in different languages"
Notice that it's only one method being patented; there's nothing stopping me from coming up with my own method. This is not a good patent, but there are worse (one-click shopping comes to mind).

2. This patent, if worded a bit differently, could set forth a way to transparently translate between the native languages of devices, not users, which would perhaps be a more interesting patent considering IPv6, pervasive intercommunication between devices, et cetera; did Microsoft drop the ball on this one?

Re:A couple thoughts

[dki]

The thing I find most interesting about the way the patent is worded:

A content translation module implemented as a computer-executable module (e.g., DLL, exe) utilizes the information contained in the user profile to translate messages from the source language to the destination language. The translated message is then transmitted to the destination device. Because the message is translated prior to delivery, the destination device receives the message according to the destination language.

In other wo

Re:A couple thoughts

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah--when my Mexican friend talks to me he thinks in Spanish but translates his thoughts into English so my monolingual ass can understand him.

Re:A couple thoughts

[hesiod]

> he thinks in Spanish but translates his thoughts into English

Sweet, God can claim prior art! Who'da thunkit.

Re:A couple thoughts

[Mostly a lurker]

the message is translated prior to transmission, not upon reaching the recipient. Does any prior art cover this?

Well, I have worked with database systems where the language of the screen displays is selected based on a user profile: the screens are transmitted already translated to the client (admittedly not on the fly translation). I have also used a little known service called Google that uses preferences to decide which language I normally work with and to offer translations from other languages to this language. This translation is also done prior to delivery to the client.

On the other hand, Microsoft may be the first vendor to translate messages in a specific manner for a particular kind of messenger service.

The situation with software patents is becoming totally bizarre. Actually, I almost wonder if someone in the patent office is trying to help point up the absurdity to a degree where the need for changes in the law will become obvious even to the US Congress.

I have prior art.

[SHEENmaster]

#!/bin/sh
#This program converts English to a different language
#Pipe shutdown announcements for it to keep the
#slow witted among users from saving their files.
#
#by: Travis Goodspeed, aka SHEENmaster
pig|wall

Re:A couple thoughts

[OwnerOfWhinyCat]

This was probably a marketing department patent.

They're probably out to launch some kind of "We're so much better than AOL campaign and wanted to make sure that this bullet point on their list of features could be unique to them.

The fact that they did it poorly is unsurprising.

Given the way babel fish treats documents with whole paragraphs worth of context, It's hard to imagine that IM language translation is going to be remotely useful.

Claude: Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck.

Brrrring! You have a new translated message from: buddy_claude "Hello, I use recreational vehicles. The space you left was cleansed by Fritz repeatedly. It is great.

Re:A couple thoughts

[Anonymous Coward]

At a prior job a few years back, I helped to implement, and then immediately UN-implement, an automatic translation feature for multinetwork chat rooms. It's not so much that the translations were bad (they were), as the fact that the only users who tolerated the poor translations were the ones with SO LITTLE to say that chat rooms using it were quickly dominated by only the most inane of conversations.

I just tried this with the fish...

[FirstNoel]

Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck

English to Spanish....

Hi, Ivan, ese limpiador del vaccuum que usted dejó
está en el fritz otra vez, él no aspira.

Spanish back to English...

Hi, Ivan, that cleaner of the vaccuum that you left you are in the Fritz again, he does not aspire.

Close but not quite...

Microsoft will have it hands full.

Sean D.

some more translations

[abhisarda]

Secure computing is our focus-

we are as insecure as hell can be.

automatic windowsupdate-

we don't need anymore embarassments.

US legal system-

we gotta check which pocket it is in.

We are optimistic about china-

Bill will not be alive to see MS china turn a profit.

aids program africa-

You will be given 60 million $. 40 million will come
back to the US in inflated drug profits.

windows eula-

you've handed your ass to us on a gold plate.

xbox-

we gotta blow that 40 billion somewhere ya know.

pocket pc -

Its just happy to see you.

WindowsME-

We got that one done by monkeys. The ones who rivalled
Shakespeare. Our real engineers were trying to figure out
if their muffins were y2k compliant.

Microsoft Test Labs-

Have you rebooted your toaster today?

Hotmail-

We haven't gotten to the bottom yet. But we're getting there

Outlook Express-

Your gateway to the wonderful world of viruses.

Clippy-

The result of years of hard research at our lame labs.

Apple-

Our *real* research labs.

Fun with Babelfish...

[Temsi]

With the incorrect "vaccuum" spelling, things get a bit messed up:

English-French-English:
Hello, Ivan, this pickling solution of vaccuum that you left is on fritz still, it does not suck.

English-Portugese-English:
Hi, Ivan, this liquid of cleanness that of vaccuum you left is in fritz another time, it does not suck.

However, with the correct spelling og "vacuum", something still gets lost in the translation, especially if you use more than one step:

English-French-German-English:
Good day, Iwan, this vacuum cleaner, which you left, is not still on Fritz, it sucks.

and my personal favorite,
English-German-French-English:
Hallo, is not again of Ivan, this vacuum cleaner which you left, on Fritz, sucks to him.

Re:I just tried this with the fish...

[ATMAvatar]

To be an effective translator for IM's, proper spelling and grammar cann't be a requirement. Honestly, when was the last time you received an IM that had perfect grammar/spelling? I can't say I've ever gotten one like that in the 7 years I've used IM programs.

-1 clueless

[mlyle]

And the abstract of the one click patent is:

A method and system for placing an order to purchase an item via the Internet. The order is placed by a purchaser at a client system and received by a server system. The server system receives purchaser information including identification of the purchaser, payment information, and shipment information from the client system. The server system then assigns a client identifier to the client system and associates the assigned client identifier with the received purchaser information.

The important part is the CLAIMS, not the abstract. The first claim from the Microsoft translation patent:

1. A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.

This seems to cover pretty much all practical IM autotranslation schemes, if this claim is granted.

Translation between protocol suites is a very different problem and Microsoft and others already have plenty of IP there, which is why things are worded the way they are. I don't think anyone dropped the ball-- this is a very broad, desirable patent if granted.

Re:-1 clueless

[Greyfox]

The "innovation" seems to be in the maintaining the preferences and doing it automatically. The splitfire IRC script has had a macro that lets you request a translation in the language of your choice off babelfish for a very long time now.

hum

[f97tosc]

you are certainly right that it is the claims that matter. However, one thing should be noted about the claim. A claim that is phrased this way means that ALL the components listed have to be included for the patent to apply.

A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.

Thus if you only change one of these parts you have successfully circumvented the patent. Long claims like these ones may seem powerful, but in fact the opposite is true. Generally it is the short ones that have the biggest coverage.

One thing that comes to mind is that the message must be transmitted in translated form. If you transmit it first with a language tag and have the other user translate it then you are OK. And since that solution has now been discussed in a public forum it can never be patented.

Tor

Claim #13

[LauraW]

You're right about the claim (#1) you quoted: If someone develops a system that doesn't use user profiles or doesn't transmit the message in translated form, then it won't infringe. But look at claim #13:

13. A system for providing real-time communication over a network between two or more devices to support multiple languages, the system comprising: at least one source device coupled to the network for transmitting a message composed according to a source language; a content translation module having instructions for translating the message into a destination language; and at least one destination device coupled to the network for receiving the message from the content translation module.

This seems to cover any IM system where the translation is done on the server and then re-transmitted to the recipient. It doesn't require that the system have profiles, preferences, etc.

Hopefully this claim will be thrown out as overly broad, but knowing the USPTO it won't be. I know from experience: my name is on a fairly broad patent covering "web-bug" images. Fortunately it's owned by IBM and they're not enforcing it. I got a nice bonus for filing it back in 1996 or so. :-)

Laura

Re:A couple thoughts

[macdaddy357]

Translation has been around long as language, and the methods for doing it have not really changed. Takeing them online is not new. Prior art! Prior art!

Re:A couple thoughts

[hesiod]

> Do you think I have any legal recourse

Nope, should have patented it yourself.

Prior art?

[baywulf]

I recall Ultima Online or some other MMPORG having translation capability while chatting.

Re:Prior art?

[Slack0ff]

i think it was phantasy star online on the dream cast that could tranlate from japanese to english and back. But im prone to be wrong.

Re:Prior art?

[Anonymous Coward]

Even more obvious prior art: Kopete (kde instant messenger) has a plug-in that already does this.

Re:Prior art?

[natrius]

What the PTO needs is something similar to amicus curiae briefs in the Supreme Court so people who actually know about the technology involved can say something if there is prior art. The only problem with that is that the patents would have to be made public before they are issued, and if the patent is denied, then everyone already knows about the idea and can capitalize on it. I'm sure they could figure out a better system than what they have now.

Re:Prior art?

[debrain]

The patent was filed December, 2001. If Kopete didn't have it before then, it's not prior art, unfortunately.

Very true indeed.

[Samir Gupta]

Nintendo, SEGA, et al. have been working on this for quite some time now, and have even started to commercialize it. It's one of the emerging trends in MMORPG game design will create interesting interactions and facilitate global play to a greater extent than is now.

Some early results can be seen in the GameCube/DreamCast title "Phantasy Star Online" where you can select from a menu of sentence patterns, subjects, objects, etc. We're trying to get it to the point where you can translate free text, without the awkward results that stuff like Babelfish, et al. yield, maybe augmented by a player-aided cache of words and phrases, with improved using in-game human feedback and machine learning.

I am really looking forward to the time where international players freely interact -- it will be an interesting sociology experiement to see how national and cultural means, norms and paradigms manifest themselves in a virtual world.

Re:Prior art?

[I_Want_This_ID]

Prior art doesn't appear to matter any longer. The patent office doesn't have the capacity, capabitlity or the subject matter knowledge to search for, find, and apply prior art. Just approve it and let the courts find the prior art.

Re:Prior art?

[Citizen of Earth]

Prior art doesn't appear to matter any longer. The patent office doesn't have the capacity, capabitlity or the subject matter knowledge to search for, find, and apply prior art. Just approve it and let the courts find the prior art.

This is why we need to change the system so that patents are published upon submission. The public can submit comments and prior art to the patent office and they can act more as administrators, like they are doing now. If a company doesn't want to risk giving up trade secrets in failed submissions, then they will only submit material that is worthy of a patent.

Re:Prior art?

[WEFUNK]

This is why we need to change the system so that patents are published upon submission. The public can submit comments and prior art to the patent office and they can act more as administrators, like they are doing now.

In this case, the application has been published and this patent is likely two to three years away from approval (if ever). Of course this is only a voluntary process right now - and I wonder why MS has chosen this path - perhaps this is really just a "marketing patent" as someone else sur

those examples dont pertain. read the patent

[*weasel]

as is the case with most computer patents, you have to -read- them to determine their fitness. the short description can't possibly hold all the pertinent details.

this pending patent covers their particular modular translation service, residing at a user-preference-designated network address (whether it be one device or a plurality of devices).

furthermore - the method states that a message comes from a sender, through the communication server directly to a recipient (no translation whatsoever to this point). the recipient's machine then automatically sends a translation request to the translation server specified in their stored preferences, and the result of that translation request is displayed.

the uniqueness of this system is that someone could set their preferences to point at a 3rd party translation service that perhaps gives better results than the stock german->japanese translation widget that MS might provide. the server passing along the traffic can remain willfully ignorant of any possible translation issues and keeps complexity of its logic down.

you may maintain this is a 'Bad Patent'(tm), and indeed babelfish is curiously close in function and it's use in procedure, to this patent.

in UO/PSO/etc the server handles translation without automatic user request.

therefore, those 'prior art' examples are not relevant.

remember, it's -procedure- and -method- that are patentable. not -functionality-.

you CAN'T patent 'translation' (and this patent isn't trying to). you CAN patent a non-obvious implimentation of it.

There is still prior art to this.

[PenguiN42]

I recall seeing a demonstration of such a system a year ago by a research group at MITRE Corporation that used exactly this kind of idea -- sending the message off to a translation server.

Re:those examples dont pertain. read the patent

[zog karndon]

"Incremental" and "unimportant" patents are, in fact, the backbone of the patent system. Look at, for example, the thousands of patents for paperclips, soda cans, etc. Each one describes a simple, non-obvious change that improves some characteristic of the object in question.

(Henry Petroski has amply described this in The Evolution of Useful Things [amazon.com].)

Bite the wax tadpole

[jkeegan]

This should be interesting.. I wonder how many international incidents will be caused by poor translation once we're used to assuming it works well.

Re:Bite the wax tadpole

[MrLint]

Hell id pay for soemtont to write somethign that can autotranslate my bad typing into english.

My irc 'pals' have made me a verb to stand for typos.

Re:Bite the wax tadpole

[TheViffer]

All your base are belong to us!!

I am so sad, I could not resist ...

Re:Bite the wax tadpole

[56ker]

I just use Babelfish [altavista.com] if needed. It's ok for IRC - helps to translate what they're saying into English - even if you can write in a different language. Translators don't have much common sense though - and they are very literal....

What do you want to say today?

[mao che minh]

I don't know if I want Microsoft in charge of semantics.

User one types: "I use Linux, how about you?"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I am a communist with viral ideas towards intellectual property"

User one types: "Have you heard about Microsoft's monopoly and their under-handed business tactics?"
....translater....
User two's screen: "Have you heard about how Microsoft's masterful innovation in information technology has made it the industry leader?"

Or if Stallman coded such a utility/library:

User one types: "I want some pizza"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I (as in "self") want (as in "desire") some GNU\Pizza"

Re:What do you want to say today?

[GGardner]

User two's screen: "I (as in "self") want (as in "desire") some GNU\Pizza"

And it better be free!

Re:What do you want to say today?

[RLiegh]

If it takes longer than 30 minutes to get there, then it's free (as in "pizza") ;-)

Re:What do you want to say today?

[frodo from middle ea]

No as in pizza.

Re:What do you want to say today?

[RenHoek]

That already exists for marketing speak ;) Check here [pvponline.com]

OMG!11!!

[thenightfly42]

How does it translate "omg, LOL"? Or perhaps there's a teenager->English option?

Sorry, prior art:

[psxndc]

http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslat or.html [homestead.com]

psxndc

Is there prior art?

[Gortbusters.org]

I know we like to challenge all these Amazon patents that come down the pipe citing tons of prior art and how ridiculous the patent sounds...

This patent sounds like a strategic business move though and something that nobody else is doing...

Re:Is there prior art?

[kcm]

Proxide [proxide.net] is at least one of the software projects out there that have this explicit, native capability.

Language translation filters were written for it more than a year ago, at least.

Cool!

[Mark_MF-WN]

Now we get to see how badly automatic translation can be butchered. Seriously though -- it's nice to see someone trying to bridge language gaps like this. Maybe this will create a demand for higher quality automatic translation.

Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

My hovercraft is full of eels!

Re:Cool

[hesiod]

> My hovercraft is full of eels!

Hehe, I don't know why this isn't modded up, it fits in perfectly with the discussion. Maybe the mods just don't "get it."

Code!

[zebs]

Heres the code!

char *translate()
{
char *str;
int i;
i = rand() % 5;
switch( i ) {
case 0: str = "What r u wearing?"; break;
case 1: str = "Want 2 cyber?"; break;
case 2: str = "All your base are belong to us"; break;
case 3: str = "I'm a stripper"; break;
case 4: str = "Bill Gates is great :)"; break;
default: str = "lol";
}
return str;
}

Can't see it working to well, babelfish has a hard enough job dealing with... generally.. well written websites. How will it handle, "how u 2 day?"?

(Sorry for the bad code... its been a while...)

Re:Code!

[SEWilco]

Boss, here is that program you needed tonight.

carbón *translate()
{<ecode>
carbón *str;
interno i;
i = rand() % 5;
switch( i ) {
caso 0: str = "What r u wearing?"; rotura;
caso 1: str = "Want 2 cyber?"; rotura;
caso 2: str = "All your base are belong to us"; rotura;
caso 3: str = "I'm a stripper"; rotura;
caso 4: str = "Bill Gates is great :)"; rotura;
defecto: str = "lol";
}

str de vuelta; }

Re:Code!

[jared_hanson]

You must have taken this directly off your SourceSafe servers at work. This is exactly the code Microsoft wrote to do this, given its tendency towards overwriting memory and other obvious errors.

1337?

[PhoenxHwk]

But the real question is: will it translate English to 1337 so I can talk to my little cousin?

Me: Haha, I just beat you at CS!
Translation: 0w|\|d j00! C$ p053r!

Re:1337?

[katsushiro]

Let me help you out here: Normal to 733t5p34k translator [anigaming.com].

Imagine the fun with bad translations..

[rtm1]

I can just see the guy in Japan telling his buddy in the US about his new apartment or something and MS's translation engine kicking out "All your base are belong to us.."

sweet!

[grub]

Linux user sends: Linux rocks!
..
MS' IM translation magic
..
Joe Lunchbucket gets: http://www.goatse.cx

emoticons

[chia_monkey]

I wonder if ;) will get translated as "bite me".

Or what about the one sticking your tongue out? Isn't that VERY offensive in some cultures? Great...we're going to start WWIII because of this.

How will they translate this?

[Martigan80]

Bite me.
Screw you.
F|_|ck Yo|_|.

Better yet brb, lol, kma?

Re:How will they translate this?

[RollingThunder]

I've always been partial to "FYDITM"... 'F*** you, directly in the mouth".

Translations

[Ananee]

I have gotten messages sent to me in other languages, and using every wonderful translator that I could find, I still have had no idea what the messages are actually about. If the translating method Microsoft is planning is like all the others I have found then there's really no need to fret in my opinion, because they will not make the messagung any clearer. But if it is more advanced then that's a totally different situation...

Do-it-yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a script that runs incoming messages via Babelfish, by using the domain address as the translation source language/country. Am I now breaking Microsoft's patent?

leverage

[frieked]

This might actually be a good thing...If Microsoft gains enough leverage (read patents for stuff that AOL wants to use) AOL might actually have to break down and let other clients contact AIM users.
Who knows though, it'll probably take a lot more than this.

Not again.

[inertia187]

Yet another part of my brain has been patented by big business.

Oh, I can just see it now.

[packethead]

Translating isn't the same as replacing the verbatum text word-for-word. There are idiomatic and grammatical nuances to take into account.

Language1: May I buy you dinner?
Translation: Can I offer you money to eat you?

Re:Oh, I can just see it now.

[kin_korn_karn]

if you have to pay to eat the bitch then she's ripping you off twice.

Other IM Patents

[mjmalone]

Out of curiosity, are there any other patents on IM technology? Does anyone have any links/patent numbers to more information regarding other IM patents?

Bad Headline

[donutello]

This is below par for Slashdot. I would have expected the headline to read "Microsoft patents IM" or "Microsoft patents translation".

How are we supposed to come up with knee-jerk reactions without reading the article if Slashdot doesn't help us?

Prior Art

[bflong]

Kopete [kde.org] has a plugin for this already in CVS. I've been using it for the past few days. Kopete is really comming along nicely.

Obligatory Patent "Translation"

[BandwidthHog]

There are several systems currently available for addressing such language barriers. In one system, a user of an instant messaging tool types a message in their source language, preferred language, or into a text field, then "cuts and pastes" the text into a separate translation program. The user must then activate the translation tool to translate the message into the destination language, and cut and paste the translated text back into the text field of the instant messaging tool. Once this is complete, the user can transmit the message. While this method can be effective, it is obvious that the process of continually cutting, pasting and switching between applications significantly impedes the communication process.

Translates to:

Okay, we finally admit that the point-n-click interface isn't the single most effective means of accomplishing every last task mankind could ever come up with.

So we hereby patent the 'pipe' command.

Even in systems where entries typed into the messaging tool are converted "on-the-fly", such as by activating a "Translate" button that links the instant messaging program to a translation tool; the extra steps required by the user compromise the real-time communication experience.

Translates to:

Screw you Jeff, I just patented the zero-click!

This patent was available?

[ansak]

I'm surprised babelfish hadn't already staked out this ground. Or had they? It would seem a natural corrollary to what they're already doing. Is there a court fight coming here, d'ya think?

IANAL. IAN American. And my employer strongly believes in patent protection for IP of any kind, including software, but this strikes me as being an example of totally the wrong kind of patent ever to be issued anywhere, under any circumstances to any organization. Doubly so to MSFT.

What about the babblefish Gaim plugin?

[ACK!!]

Is that not prior art?

Language translation is not exactly an innovative idea.

Anyone else care to list babblefish style plugins for their favorite IMs.

Didn't you mean....

[tbase]

"the use of USPTO patent as soon as the Microsoft published for a method and a system to translate the immediate messages, in which the giant of software demonstrates how an English sender of speech can type ' hi ' in a IM and he ' Hello will be translated ' for a Hispanic container of speech."

How are they going to

[headbulb]

How are they going to translate all those mispelled words, Oh and those annoying shortening of words because people are too lazy to spell out the 4,5,6 letter word.

Published Prior Art

[yivi]

http://www.atamiri.cc/en/Atamkatiri/ [atamiri.cc]
From the site:

Under the auspicies of our sponsors Unión Latina, París, and Neotec, La Paz, our tiny Language Engineering R&D group has updated ATAMIRI to enable this test operation in the Web. The current version covers all 42 translation directions for the Latin languages: Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian, Rumanian and also for English and German.

We are aware that during this initial operation, some translation directions are better in quality and lexico than others. Please take it with humor and trust we are permanently working to improve translation quality in the implemented languages. The system's potential capabilty has not yet been fully exploited.

"Qopuchawi" means in antique Aymara the site where "qopuchasiña" takes place; i.e. chating in a circle of persons; "qopucha" is the chat itself and "qopu" is the group of persons chating in the circle where each and every one has the same right to be heard. We intend to contribute for the Web to become a global real "qopuchawi", without language primacies which are indeed barriers.

¡Recepción!

[spoonyfork]

What they type...

a/s/l por favor Hola, cómo va? Qué usted está usando? Desee al cyber? Satisfágame en los Juguetes R Nosotros en la cañería. Traeré un vino de la botella y dos condoms.

What your kids see...

a/s/l please Hi, how goes? What you are using? Wish when cyber? Meet in Toys R We in the pipe. I will bring a wine of bottle and two condoms.

More MS Bloat for Users

[BrynM]

20. The system of claim 13 wherein the content translation module resides on the at least one source device.

21. The system of claim 13 wherein the content translation module resides on the at least one destination device.

Do I really want to have a language dictionaries stored on my Handheld or Phone? As it is, just installing spell checking features for only one language takes up an alarming chunk of my Palm Vx's RAM (8MB). Imagine what it would take to hold a few translation dictionaries. On a phone,

Scary...

[inertia187]

I just hope Microsoft doesn't get the idea to patent Method and System For Microsoft For Any Reason [firstgov.gov].

prior art

[krokodil]

Fire [sourceforge.net] does that.

Prior Art?

[VValdo]

This patent was filed on December 28, 2001 [uspto.gov]. Version 0.29.a [sourceforge.net] of the fantastic GPL'd instant messenger Fire [sourceforge.net] introduced "Automatic, inline foreign language translation" on December 12, 2001 [sourceforge.net].

I would also imagine that the feature was in CVS and publically downloadable before that.

W

Use the whole world to build a translation tool

[SpaceRook]

For example:

Create a website that lists every English word, and users can submit the corresponding French word. Whichever French word is submitted the most for a particular English word becomes the accepted value.

In addition, there would be "associate words." For example, what does "key" mean in English? Is it a house key? A key on a keyboard? In such a case, you could have "key" associated with 2 different groups of words:

key (keyboard, computer, technology, mouse, input)

key (house, car, door, loc

Classic Translation Problem

[jimson]

English : "The spirit is strong, but the flesh is weak"

Tranlator - English -> Russian

Russian : "The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"

Automatic translation is a classic AI problem. Shouldn't there have to be a "working" prototype prior to issueing the patent??

Just goes to show...

[hesiod]

This just goes to show you that some idiot will always nail two things together that have never been nailed together before and patent it. And then demand money for it. And there will always be a thousand other idiots saying "Yeah that's so original no one would have ever thought of that, duh duhduh duh duh!"

real IM speak

[forgetmenot]

How many regular IM users actually type using proper spelling an rules of grammar? I think it safe to say that most messages contain a lot of shorthand, and I don't mean the run-of-the-mill LOL, BRB, etc.. that everyone knows and uses. I mean just plain ol' not good grammar, bad shrthnd that only another human reader can possibly understand, or massive amounts of typoos, swithced letters, etc. (who "really" knows how to type accurately anymore), etc.

And it would have to be damned fast - otherwise it's goin

Let's see a model!

[Helpadingoatemybaby]

In the old days, up until 1870, the patent office required models to accompany a patent application.

1836 -- The Patent Act of July 4, 1836 reestablished the examination system of 1790. Models were once again required by the Commissioner. "The model, not more than 12 inches square, should be neatly made, the name of the inventor should be printed or engraved upon, or affixed to it, in a durable manner."

It was left to the commissioner of patents on whether or not he wanted to request a model. This case absolutely screams to the model requirement. In my opinion, for technology patents certainly, a person should not be able to patent something that they have no model for.

Microsoft is probably the least able to produce this product. Translation software? Show us that you have this technology. (Yeah right.) You want to translate on the fly on text filled with abbreviations and slang?

Okay, show us that you can do this. Show us your model (AND make it no more than 12 inches square!). Given their record breaking incompetence, there is no way in God's green acres that Microsoft has this technology workable or will have it in the near future.

Maybe a commissioner of patents write in campaign would fix all of these software problems up?

Lets STANDARDIZE! :-)

[Dutchmaan]

Perhaps we should just standardize written language into stylisitic hieroglyophs...

Esperantu meets modern Egypt with a refreshing twist of alien sci-fi!... Just add electronic ink.. shake vigorously and *poof* you're in the future!

FBI needs training to learn IM

[angle_slam]

Sort of off-topic, but a lot of joke posts here are saying how difficult it is to translate IM. How difficult is it? The Washington Post had an article [washingtonpost.com] describing how FBI agents trying to catch pedophiles are being trained by 13 year old girls to learn how to use IM to act like a teenage girl. Some quotes:

As undercover assignments go, posing as a teenage girl online to catch pedophiles has its share of challenges for the typical FBI agent. Should he ever capitalize words in instant messages? Is it okay to say you buy your clothes at 5-7-9? And what about Justin Timberlake? Is he still hot or is he so two years ago?

[snip]

Most of their classmates did not know about their FBI work until yesterday, when Bald commended them on their achievements. Thanks to the girls, Bald said, the FBI has gathered such valuable information as: never begin a chat with "hello"; never use proper grammar in instant messages; and "pos" stands for "parent over shoulder."

If adult humans need to learn how to speak IM, how can a computer?

Been available for Mac OS X for over an year

[pedroziviani]

I've been using for a few years a fantastic multi-protocol IM client for Mac OS X called Fire [sourceforge.net].

It has had automatic translation capabilities in several languages for well over an year, and it works very well. Further more, Fire also supports AIM, ICQ, Jabber, MSN, Yahoo, IRC protocols.

Microsoft is following industry practice

[73939133]

This is the kind of patent all big computer companies file a lot of: trivial technology and lots of related prior art, but nobody else has patented exactly this thing. Why is Microsoft doing this? To be able to achieve cross-licensing with other companies that have big patent portfolios. The effect is to keep small competitors from being able to enter any of their markets (because they will be stepping on some of Microsoft's patents), and to be able to have leverage against open source projects.

I think this is ultimately only fixable legislatively. It's important that the EU do not pass software patents--by having at least one large market where open source software can be developed without this nonsense, people will keep creating software even for functionality that's patented in the US. But in the long run, we really need to get patent reform in the US.

The effects of these kinds of patents are so hostile to business and competition that sooner or later, legislators must see the light.

Translate this, Bill

[BigBadBri]

Baise mon cul.

Si vous croyez qu'on peut tener un brevet pour traduction des MI, vous etes un plus gros connard que j'ai pensee.

Encoule toi, voleur!

IBM was demonstrating this 3 or 4 years ago

[scottme]

They have/had a product, Lotus Translation Services for Sametime [ibm.com], that plugs into their Sametime [lotus.com] IM system and does translation by interfacing to some separate tranlsation server, such as their own WebSphere Translation product. They even have a demo [ibm.com] of it on the web.

There may be detail differences in the implementation that the Microsoft patent application describes, but in general this is nothing new.

I've done this before

[autopr0n]

Back in the ICQ days someone msg'd me from french canada. I translated their speech using babelfish and my own back into french. I can belive this patent was granted, but, christ. It's blindingly obvious how to do it. The only problem is that there is no easily available 'translation libraries' to plug use that actualy work. Hrm, perhaps a good target for open source developers :)

That said, there is some prior art in William Gibson's Iduro where a conversation is translated back and forth between english and japanese. Sure, it was as audio, but really what's the diff?

Reason to be paranoid?

[inkswamp]

They write:

Je deteste Microsoft!

You see:

I love the innovation and security that I get only with fine Microsoft products!

Of course, if you had read the 40-page EULA for this translation software, you'd have known that this was going to happen.

MITRE's simple instant messaging

[luc_sky]

But it's alredy licensed by the MITRE corp. :-) http://www.mitre.org/news/releases/02/transclick08 _14_02.html [mitre.org], it's called Translingual Instant Messaging (TrIM).

Diplomat

[samx]

An IRC client called Diplomat has done this at least since 1998. Looks like the site is gone now, but can still be found using the way back machine: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.universe.c om

The dawn of a new patent era

[CustomDesigned]

The first era of software patents:

Do something we've done for hundreds of years - but do it on a computer!

The second era of software patents:

Do something we've done on computers for decades - but do it on the web!

The new era of software patents:

Do something we've done on the web for years - but do it on IM!

I have prior art on this

[hqm]

in 1997 we had a company that had a multiplayer
game with chat, and we could set it to run messages
through babelfish on the server (or whatever AltaVista's translation service was).

We even did translation twice for some games, The idea was to simulate international business negotiation, so to make the communication harder, we'd have messages translated from english to german to english, to simulate a scenario where a merger between an english and german company had taken place.

Ridiculousness

[whig]

Patents must become increasingly absurd in order to make it clear to people that patenting ideas is not the best way to ensure that inventors receive credit for their innovations.

Perhaps instead we ought to have a public registry which new ideas may be entered into, and all prior art may also be seen and shown when it exists. Those with a truly novel concept would be clearly noted as such and those making use of their invention would voluntarily contribute to encourage the further development of science and progress.

Much like the Free Software movement, but as applied to all inventions.

Ayttm gives prior art

[Baloo Ursidae]

Ayttm [sourceforge.net] does this already...does the patent office not know about Google [google.com]?

Re:Holy cow! A potentially unique patent!

[irving47]

I think you're right. I just wonder how much prior art might exist out there. If none, this sounds like something worthy of pursuit.

If they get really ambitious, they could introduce human elements into it that could assist in case of a snafu. Maybe on a subscription basis or something.

Re:Um...

[iapetus]

Or, as Babelfish would say after a round trip into Japanese:

The patent already as for me thinks of that it is in machine translation and high.

now we speak to the people of the place of the foreign country, makes us maintain it is possible the barrier of word. Now it can obstruct our communications exactly with the ??? of machine translation, as for us it is not possible to understand in any case. The smell progress of the Ahh being sweet!

Re:Patent? Doesn't Star Trek Consitute Prior Art?

[h00pla]

Yeh, that must have been some translator. Just think - it didn't crash trying to translate William Shatner's way of speaking

The man ...... will cease ..... to exist

We are .... on a ... peace .... ful mission

(God it's hard doing Shatner in a slashdot post!)

A More Practical Solution

[istartedi]

Eliminate the application fees.

Now hear me out. Right now, the patent office is a cash cow. Take away the milk, and Congress will start coming up with ways to shrink the office instead of building a massive new complex on very expensive real estate in Alexandria, Virginia.

Also, patent examiners will be more inclined to come up with ways to quickly deny patents instead of quickly granting them, since maintaining the patent is now just "work".

If you're clever, you might even be able to pitch this as p

Re:I guess I'll have to spend 5 minutes...

[azzy]

then you'll have to go back in time to make it prior art