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NAI Sending "Sniffer" C&D Letters 76

Posted by timothy from the zealous-lawyers dept.
RayMarron writes "It seems that NAI's IP lawyers have been billing some hours recently by sending nastygrams asking companies/individuals to stop using their trademarked term 'Sniffer.' Steve Gibson of Gibson Research Corporation has received one. The full text is posted on his news server, and I'm sure one of our readers will post it here. Or visit news.grc.com, grc.news and grc.news.feedback groups. A student at Stanford received one as well and forwarded it to the faculty to handle. Both Gibson (relating a conversation with his IP attorneys) and Stanford's reply seem to agree that 'sniffer' is too generic a term to be a viable trademark and can't be effectively enforced. Is there an IP lawyer in the house?"
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NAI Sending "Sniffer" C&D Letters More

NAI Sending "Sniffer" C&D Letters

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  • Well, if that is not cutting off one's own nose to despite one's face....
  • I can understand Hormel's annoyance with the use of the word SpamArrest, but this just seems too much.

    Sniffer is just a normal word; it's not made up. This is just ridiculous.

  • That really stinks. :)

  • Dear NAI... (Score:5, Funny)

    by shr3k ( 451065 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @03:29PM (#6352251) Homepage
    Dear NAI,

    We believe *you* are infringing on *our* trademark. Our ability to "sniff" is our livelihood. Not to mention, we hold prior art for any kind of "sniffing."

    We will see you in court.

    Sincerely,

    Drug-Sniffing Canines
  • they earn more by forcing the question to be asked even though they know the answer.
  • never threaten students & or professors doing research , it just creates bad blood and pisses the public off . We already expect companies to go after eachother , leave the academics out of it.

  • sniffer loop has a long history in radio (Score:4, Informative)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) * on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @03:49PM (#6352433) Homepage Journal
    The terms "sniffer loop", "sniffer probe", and "sniffer coil" have been in long use in the radio service industry - they all refer to a probe used to sample the H field near a coil in an RF circuit without affecting the circuit (much...).

    Google search [google.com]

  • Road to nowhere (Score:5, Insightful)

    by unixwin ( 569813 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @04:05PM (#6352573) Homepage
    Differently seen companies chasing their tails in copyright infringments,
    trade protocol violations and intellectual property rights
    are generally the ones which are going to fall pretty soon.
    Short on cash and not being able to earn/fund the millions they were used to in the dotgone era they are metamorphosing into scavengers and opportunists ....
    SCO is a shining example

    The crummy economy is bringing out the best in a lot of Companys, their legal team thinks, "we are getting irrelevant (as a team) , lets think up something to make some money and make sure we dont' get laid off," "hmmm... patent # 5551212 seems to be worth looking into"
    and there starts their Road to Hell [lyricsdepot.com]
    Easy money (or so they think) ,lot of publicity (for sure) and a lot of hits on their website ,
    so there's a new concept for you
    the legal team is now the marketing team

  • Redikuliss (Score:5, Funny)

    by orthogonal ( 588627 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @04:09PM (#6352608) Journal
    It seems that NAI's IP lawyers have been billing some hours recently by sending nastygrams asking companies/individuals to stop using their trademarked term 'Sniffer.'

    That's ridiculous! It would be like, I dunno, Ralph Lauren suing the U.S. Polo Association, claiming that Polo clothes owned the name of the sport.

    Oh, wait, Ralph Lauren did do that.

    Of course, he didn't win.

    Oh wait, he did win: [uspaproperties.com]
    • From the link you provided, it looks like Lauren sued the USPA over its lisencing of Jordache's use of "Polo" as a clothing label. You imply he sued them over the word itself, which would be ridiculous. However, it is not unreasonable to argue that, while Lauren did not invent the term "Polo" in reference to a sport, he did establish it vis-a-vis clothing. Jordache's "Polo" line could seem to be a direct competitor, and thus an infringment.

  • Kinda stupid. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pmz ( 462998 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @04:32PM (#6352782) Homepage
    The letter at grc.com constantaly spells "sniffer" as "SNIFFER(R)". How can the two be confused? I've heard "sniffer" for years without any mention of Computer Associates. If I saw "SNIFFER(R)", then there's no confusion that it is probably a product of some kind, but confusing "sniffer" simply doesn't make sense (it's a generic term for software that sniffs--it's a verb, too!--packets from a network transmission).

    By the way, from the letter: "This includes, but is not limited to, the use of "Sniffer" in any meta tags, source code, key words, domain names, glossaries, indexes and the like associated with your web site(s)."

    This is simply assinine. Source code?

    • Re:Kinda stupid. (Score:2, Informative)

      by worldcitizen ( 130185 )
      FYI Network Associates and Computer Associates are different companies, no need to blame one for the faults of the other...

      NAI makes security software (mainly for home users), CA makes enterprise software (which includes security but covers a lot more)

      On your comment that this is asinine, I couldn't agree more. The jargon dictionary has the following entry:

      sniff v.,n. 1. To watch IP packets traversing a local network. Most often in the phrase `packet sniffer', a program for doing same. 2.Synonym for pol

  • excellent! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fux the Pengiun ( 686240 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @04:39PM (#6352833)
    Why, wouldn't you know it, IAAIPL (I am an IP lawyer)! Sadly, yes, this is enforceable. "Sniff" is too broad a term to trademark, but "sniffer" is certainly not. Check findlaw.com's take on trademark dilution [findlaw.com]. NAI believes these's peoples' use of the term "sniffer" dialates their trademark.

    However, I think in this case they've gone too far. There's a C&D letter they also sent to the Children's Television Workshop [ctw.org] after the Sesame Street producers gave Snuffleupagus HIV [alternet.org] last year as part of a bid to raise kids' awareness of AIDS. Apparently NAI didn't want their trademark associated with wherever Snuffleupagus was keeping his "sniffer"

    • Re:excellent! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Thursday July 03, 2003 @12:19AM (#6355867) Homepage
      I personally use the term sniffer in a generic sense, and I've never even heard of the Network Associates product before today. What is the standard for determining that a term is or has become generic? To get an objective measure I just browsed google results, and while Network Associates has the number one hit, there are five more generic uses of "sniffer" in a computer data sniffing context before the next Network Associates hit (yes, I was careful not to count things like fish sniffer [fishsniffer.com], I didn't even count JavaScript browser sniffers).

      In general it looks to me that the term sniffer is used less than 50% of the time as Sniffer® and more than 50% of the time to mean generic computer data sniffing. Doesn't that mean they've already lost any claim on it, just like Asprin® and Kleenex®?

      -
    • NAI believes these's peoples' use of the term "sniffer"
      dialates their trademark.
      Dialates? I think you mean "dilates" as in "embiggens"? So saying "sniffer" reinforces their trademark? I guess I should either stop promoting them or send them a bill. Unless of course, you mean "dilute".

  • It is time for us... (Score:3, Funny)

    by pbox ( 146337 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @04:44PM (#6352862) Homepage Journal
    It is time for us to register Network. Then we can surely get some $$$ from NAI (an a whole lot of others)!

    So the plan is:

    1. Register Network
    2. Sue everyone
    3. Profit!
    • It is time for us to register Network

      Dear Mr. pbox,

      As you may be aware, Alsee, Inc. is a leading person in the field of written text. One of this person's best known brands is E®. Through his vowel unit, E Technologies, Alsee writes widely recognized words. This person also posts widely to promote this letter worldwide. Alsee owns approximately 45 trademark registrations for the E® trademark around the world. E® brand text is written only by Alsee.

      It has come to the attention of Alsee tha

  • C&D signed by... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Blob Pet ( 86206 ) on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @04:47PM (#6352895) Homepage
    Beverly Garrard
    Worldwide Trademark Manager
    Legal Affairs

     Judging by her title, and the fact that the company had allocated such a position, it looks like somone's trying to justify her existance.

  • Sniffer has always been brand name (Score:5, Informative)

    by Cy Guy ( 56083 ) * on Wednesday July 02, 2003 @04:56PM (#6353018) Homepage Journal
    Sniffer was a commercial product from then Network General and came out at least by 1987 [google.com]. But they called it "The Sniffer" , which seems to have more of a brandname like sound to it.

    And another Usenet post shows that at least as early as 1994 they were quite conscious of its growing use as a generic term and tried to deter it [google.com].

    Maybe they should have been more proactive in stopping it use as a generic term, but it is a fine line to walk for companies since getting to be the "Kleenex" of your market niche makes you the defacto standard.

  • Here it is... (Score:2, Informative)

    by wonkamaster ( 599507 )
    June 30, 2003

    Re: Infringement and Dilution of SNIFFER Trademark

    Dear Mr. Gibson,

    As you may be aware, Network Associates, Inc. ("Network
    Associates") is a leading company in the field of computer
    network management and security. One of the company's best known
    brands is SNIFFER®. Through our business unit, Sniffer
    Technologies, Network Associates creates and markets widely
    recognized computer software and hardware for monitoring
    computer networks. The company also maintains a web site to
    promote these prod

  • I mean come on... I can accept that SCO owns UNIX or Microsoft owns everything else, but owning the word "sniffer"???

    it is not even a computer-term!

    • Re:is this a JOKE?? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Losat ( 643653 )
      "it is not even a computer-term!"

      That's exactly why it could be trademarked. A trademark must not be "merely descriptive" of a product or service. For example, Apple is a fine trademark for a computer.

      However, I've never heard of Computer Associates' Sniffer brand, but I've long seen the term packet-sniffer used to describe network monitor programs generically. I do indeed consider it a "computer-term" and a generic one at that. Apparently the USPTO doesn't, which is not in the least bit surprising to me.
  • So I guess My Windows(r) Sniffer(tm) product I'm developing should be canned then?
  • Perhaps these idiots should go NAI themselves
  • So, anyone know if this has been resolved yet? After all, the letters are dated February and April of 2002.

  • 1989? (Score:2)

    by nuggz ( 69912 )
    Registration number 1582251 is for Dus-tek, that's funny.
    1645824 is for Sniffer, they filed for it May 30, 1989.
    Now the discussion is if it is a valid trademark or not. I would guess the term sniffer was in widespread use before 89, so it is probaly not an issue.
  • One way to avoid problems like this is to file a trademark application. If the term is too generic, you can still get a registration on the supplemental register. Normally, companies go for registration on the "principal register", which gives you the exclusive right to the mark. Registration on the supplemental register just means that no one can thereafter object to your using the term.

    Trademark registration can be done entirely on-line, and it's easy. It costs a few hundred dollars, but it's much c

  • "Sniffer" as in information detector? 1946 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tsu Dho Nimh ( 663417 ) <abacaxi@@@hotmail...com> on Saturday July 05, 2003 @10:53AM (#6372275)
    Checking with the OED, they have a 1946 usage for a "sniffer" that was used to locate illicit radio transmissions. Its use as a name for a flow-through detector for continuous measurement of exhaust gases, contamination, etc. goes back to 1945 or earlier.

    It's a generic name for a non-destructive detection device.

  • My dog has a sniffer. And he uses it everywhere and he could care less about your IP crap.
    Matter of fact, I think my dog invented the "sniffer"...

    Now, sniff my butt and go away luser...

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