Anti-Censorship Efforts And Port Scanning 159
scubacuda writes "According to Wired, the University of Toronto's Internet Censorship Explorer permits people test the limits of national and organizational Internet-blocking schemes. Users enter a target URL (and a country), and the software then scans the ports of available servers in that country, looking for open ones to connect on from behind that country's firewall. Many consider port scanning a gray area, as it's often used by various hackers to find vulnerabilies that can be exploited."
missing country (Score:2, Funny)
Block that (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Block that (Score:2)
Re:Block that (Score:5, Funny)
There's always hope.
Re:Block that (Score:2)
The "open port" on that server is port 80. It's a web front end. More importantly, you just block incoming from that server. It's easy enough to set up rules that will block incoming traffic matching a pattern. Maybe you should read the linked stuff before you post.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Block that (Score:1)
Actually though, yes, I see that you are right.
Portscanning (Score:4, Funny)
For example, IIS web services that MS "trusts" enough to give full system access to.
Re:Portscanning (Score:3, Insightful)
It also finds things that are meant to be open. So?
proxies (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, the people with the open proxies have provided a public service to the world. His argument would be similar to someone setting up a website, and then complain when someone uses it without their knowledge. Or putting a sign on your front door that says "Open for Business, please come in" and then complaining when people walk in.
If you don't want people using your computer, don't provide public services on it.
Travis
Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:3, Insightful)
Put up or shut up!
It's just not polite (Score:2, Interesting)
Why? It's not polite, and rude people get treated rudely.
Re:It's just not polite (Score:2)
Re:It's just not polite (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It's just not polite (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:It's just not polite (Score:1)
Next up: it should be illegal to take a walk around the outside of your home checking for any windows left open.
Only thieves and criminals would want to know if your windows were open.
I don't see portscanners being banned anytime soon.
Re:It's just not polite (Score:2, Interesting)
Where I come from, you'd be going to jail for a very long time. Certainly much longer than the "burglar", who, at best, would go to jail for a week or two for a tresspass misdemeanor.
And while that happens to be Canada, the US is no different. That is, assuming you don't have a big "No Tresspassing" sign o
how about a different analogy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's just not polite (Score:5, Insightful)
> public, you'll probably get shot or at least get to see how well your head is
> capable of decelerating a baseball bat.
Except your home isnt a public place.
Your home is a private place, for you.
So to extend that to computers.
Your PC behind a firewall is a private place.
Did anyone claim it was OK to attempt to break in through a firewall?
No. So please stop arguing that point.
A webserver is indeed a public place.
Its more compared to the general use lodge at the park down the street.
And let me tell you, if you attacked me while i was attempting to see if the doors were open on that public general use lodge, you would clearly be in the wrong for doing so.
When you run a webserver, you are allowing the general public. If you dont want the general public there, take measures, ANY MEASURES AT ALL, to stop them!
Leaving a webserver on a public network with no filters, firewall rules, IP access lists, or authentication, can not in any way be argued as taking measures to prevent access to it. You wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
Its akin to putting a tarp down on the ground, setting out your , no walls or screens or covers or anything, then complaining when people look at that is laying out in the open.
If you dont want that stuff being looked at, dont put it there in public.
Same difference with a webserver.
As for your comment of not polite. Inviting people into your home, then shooting them for tresspassing is what _I_ call impolite. That is basically what you are trying to justify being OK.
Re:It's just not polite (Score:2, Interesting)
A computer connected to the public Internet is not a house, and has no surrounding property on which people can knowingly trespass in order to try a doorknob.
A closer analogy would be someone looking your house over from the street to see if there's a garage sale going on, or you've got business/sale signs up, etc...
This isn't illegal, despite the fact that a would-be housebreaker could do the same thing to spot an open window.
Even then, the analogy
Re:It's just not polite (Score:2)
Now I may have left a lemon tree on my lawn as a public web server, little kids go and pick my lemons all summer long. Since the lemon tree is just for looks, I don't care if they eat lemmons from my tree.
Now one day, some teenagers come along, and they notice a window open
Bad analogy... (Score:2)
What if you had never heard of Yahoo? For example, you are from a country that just got Internet access. Yahoo is
The hell? (Score:2)
Anyways. For every single negative use of port scanning I can think of about 10 that would make my life hellish if I was without. Troubleshooting servers. Computer security. Filter testing. IPtable testing. etc. etc. etc.
Quite often friends bug me for help with their servers, the first thing I do is nmap their machine. If said friend happens to live behind the Great Firewall of China, then I have problems, don't I?
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:3, Insightful)
Suppose I came to your house, found the door to be unlocked and decided to come in and take your stuff. Or if you object to me taking your stuff, let's say I just look around because I'm simply curious (i.e., the common "hacker
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:1)
No, suppose you came to my house and tried the doorknob. Full stop.
Where you get the idea that burglarizing someone's home is the equivalent of Port Scanning, I have no clue. I'd hate to see what you compare cracking to. Genocide, perhaps?
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:1)
No, it's your analogy with doorknobs that is nonsense. And there have already been several cases go through the courts where port scanning was found to not be illegal. There's a big difference between requesting a TCP connection be set up, and attempting to make (unauthorised) use of a service behind that TCP port.
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:2)
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:2)
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:2)
Jiggling your door handle wouldn't be illegal, I think that's a poor analogy though. It's more like I'm looking at your house and counting the number of windows and doors. Actually walking through the door or crawling through the window is where the illegality lies.
You are confusing port scanning an
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:1)
I don't care if I *do* have the ports blocked, I don't want you doing that...it's my system and you can stay out.
Re:Port scanning is not a grey area... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yemen, web porn blocking... (Score:2)
--LP (j/k)
Tool (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway, I think that the main use of port scanning today, in internet (to contrast with internal lans, where it have some useful applications, from security audits to automatic configuration of things), is to find vulnerabilities, and even for lawful tries, is recomended to ask permision or be with the knowledge of the the remote administrator. If the ICE don't ask permission to the remote administrator for the scanning, well, I think that the "gray" area is actually pretty dark.
Re:Tool (Score:3, Funny)
Dr. Giggles (Score:2)
Re:Tool (Score:2)
Re:Tool (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Tool (Score:1)
The distinction here is consent.
If a surgeon cuts you without your consent, that's illegal. If you port scan me without my consent, that's no gray area.
To get even more legalistic, there is implied consent. If I'm dying and can't give consent, cut away. If you are my ISP, scan away.
arbitrary Fletch quote (Score:2)
"Hey Fletch, how are you coming with that article?"
"Well, there were sort of in a gray area"
"How gray?"
"ummm charcoal?"
Re:Tool (Score:3, Funny)
Man the barricades (Score:5, Informative)
Your ports will get scanned. Get over it. If it upsets you, look for ways to dump the traffic. Yes, it is an oft-used reconnaisance technique for profiling systems prior to attack. But if a portscan allows an attacker to mount a successful attack on the basis of finding open ports or a vulnerable OS, then your security is inadequate. It's your problem.
No, I don't think portscanning is "nice", but really, folks, it isn't going to go away, and you should be thinking more realistically about the defensive measures necessary to protect your systems.
Re:Man the barricades (Score:2)
There are those who run fake open proxies that deceive the spammers. It's fine to call for defensive measures. Running an open proxy honeypot designed to snare spammers is a very good defensive measure.
Grey Area? (Score:5, Informative)
This sounds like the claims made by the RIAA and MPAA and others when they got the DMCA created. "Some of it could be used by some people to do something illegal, therefore we should make it all illegal." Clearly, as this program itself demonstrates, there are legitimate uses for port scanning, so i fail to see why the technique itself should be considred a "grey area."
Re:Grey Area? (Score:2)
Chaining yourself to a tree to prevent logging is in a grey area (illegal action in the name of a "just" cause.) Chains are not a grey area, and chainsaws are not a grey area.
Sniff my ports, please! (Score:5, Funny)
thanks,
HAL
Re:Sniff my ports, please! (Score:1)
HAL's /etc/services -
21 ftp
25 smtp
53 dns
80 http
137 my ass
Damn - that M$ sure stinks....
Looks like a good idea. (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, it is taking network resources without asking permission and could conceivably even cause trouble for the network administrator or business or its customers.
However, if the netadmin is competent, there's no problem because there won't be any open ports available to the outside for proxy use anyway. Moreover, it's exactly the incompetent sysadmin who leaves ports open who is responsible for the open relays that are used for the bulk of the spam that clogs our email boxes. If a sysadmin gets grilled for a week or two over his system's attempt to access "forbidden sites", perhaps this will teach him that it's time to lock down his system and if he doesn't know how to, find out NOW.
This makes the program a good idea in any case. Anything that disproportionately hammers stupid sysadmins is a good thing, even if the sysadmin is the owner of a single box with a broadband connect that due to the usual end-user cluelessness, is 0wN3d by every script kiddie on the Net and whose bandwidth is mainly used to spread either trojans or spam.
Like checking door (Score:2)
If people are that concerned then they can always reconfigure their firewall to only allow traffic to the ports that are meant to be open and drop the rest. Of course if they really want to get paranoid then they should look at fooling nmap [slashdot.org] (posted a couple of days ago)
Rus
Re:Like checking door (Score:2)
You cant check my door to see if it's unlocked, not on my home, or on my car, or at my place of business.
Ok, so next time you go to the grocery store and see if they are open you will turn yourself in at the nearest police station, correct? And on what charge?
Who doesn't do that? Who hasn't gone to a store or other business expecting them to be open and found the door was indeed locked? Your analogy is just dead stupid.
IANAL and I have never felt the need to portscan others' machines, as usually the
Port scanning (Score:5, Interesting)
So, you can go down the hall and find out what offices are open to public business. Some doors are locked, some the secretary says "no, we don't want any new customers" or "you have to go get a t124350892 slip from elsewhere before you see the doctor" or "yes, we're open for business".
The admin is the security guard. If you don't want to be a security guard - lock the front door to the building. Any doors that contain offices that aren't for the public should be locked. Any doors that expect restricted traffic should be selective about who comes in.
Just because OS's are designed cryptically, software is careless, and it requires way more knowledge then it should to hold down a computer doesn't mean port-scanning itself is unethical.
In an ideal system, any server admin should be forced to see right on his main remote window what ports are open and what apps are running on them and what security is in place on each one. This should be on by default for any "dumb server" people plan to use. The problem is that there is that software is designed only for hardcores, and being used by people with a 5 page faq and the man pages. The user doens't see a nice UI showing him whats going on where, all he sees is a blinking white cursor. He knows he's installed a buttload of software, but has no clue what its doing. For efficiency's sake, the software is very cryptic, so he does not know what his machine is doing.
Really - fearing port scanning is security through obscurity. While in time-critical apps like network gaming there is a certain appeal to trusting the users, but in regular serving there should be no doors left open.
The solution to port-scanning isn't banning port-scanning, its making server boxen such that the admin knows what's going on.
Nothing to see here folks (Score:3, Insightful)
"This to me is no different than hacking," said Jon Asdourian, a computer forensics examiner with Stroz-Friedberg. "They're obviously using resources that would not normally be available. Using someone else's resources without their knowledge is abhorrent to us."
Thats just crap - if somebody leaves a proxy-server open to the world, they can hardly complain when *gasp* somebody uses it as a proxy server . .
And as somebody mentioned earlier, port scanning itself is not inherently wrong. Its people putting the information gained from port scanning to ill use that is wrong.
It strikes me that there's some analogy to gun control here - port scanning doesn't root computers, hax0rs root computers . . .
Re:Nothing to see here folks (Score:1)
People make the analogy of port scanning being like testing doors to see if they're unlocked. And it's a good one. You aren't allowed to "test my door", or even walk up the path to it, without my permission. Because it's all my property. That "no solicitors" sign is there to prevent just that.
Many open proxies are the result of previous hacks into the system. Many more
Re:Nothing to see here folks (Score:2, Interesting)
I can't speak with authority on US or international law, but in NZ law (and presumably most of the rest of the commonwealth) you do have implied permission to come on anybodies property at any time. As long as your
"Don't use my proxy" is the default (Score:2)
A proxy should not be confused with a public webserver, where it is reasonable to assume that the default is to allow public access. Your analogy of the open gate applies to normal webpages on my webserver. But using my proxy without my permission is the same as driving off in my car (although when someone comes to steal my car, I deliberately leave the k
Re:"Don't use my proxy" is the default (Score:1)
A proxy should not be confused with a public webserver, where it is reasonable to assume that the default is to allow public access. Your analogy of the open gate applies to normal webpages on my webserver.
I disagree - if you do not want something to be available and usable by the public then you don't make it available and usable to the public.
For ins
Re:Nothing to see here folks (Score:2)
In many countries bandwidth is still incredibly expensive, this is especially true in tinpot dictatorships that censor the internet. Americans in particular have come to treat bandwidth as a free resource, and do not think about the damage that some poor soul in a third world country has suffere
left - theft (Score:1)
Re:Nothing to see here folks (Score:1)
It seems to me that if leaving a proxy server open to the public can be as expensive as all that, then
Re:Nothing to see here folks (Score:2)
Remember, we're talking the sorts of countries that think they can censor the internet here.
Riddle me this.... (Score:2, Interesting)
So where do I find a list of ports i'm authorized to connect to and use services? What if I set up a web server, publically accessable, but meant for private use, with my entire cd collection ripped to ogg/mp3 - who is responsible if random people
Re:Riddle me this.... (Score:2)
Re:Riddle me this.... (Score:2)
Re: Riddle me this.... (Score:2)
OK, (Score:1)
In fact each country's local law will determine the fate of each packet that passes over h/w equipments stationed in that country. If that is unacceptable to some, tough luck, find another country to host the equipment
Each country has its laws which may appear as censorships to others, this doesn't give the other coun
Doesn't scan ports... (Score:5, Informative)
NOTE: This wired article is not exactly accurate.
1. The ICE browser does not port scan anyone, it issues a request for a URL to a proxy server and returns the results to the user. There is no scanning of any kind.
The process of scanning occurs when open, publicly accessible proxies are identified by researchers in the Citizen Lab. The only ports checked are 80, 8080, and 3128, no others.
In many cases proxies are identified based on the fact that they are listed on websites that catalog lists of open, publicly accessible proxy servers. In such cases NO scanning is done.
You can read the rest here [opennetinitiative.net].
What about Australia? (Score:2, Interesting)
Why isn't Australia on their list of selectable countries?
Are they using some other kind of censorship than blocking certain sites?
Re:What about Australia? (Score:1)
If you don't believe me, try finding the list of censored sites. OK, that list is censored, but as far as I can tell, that's it.
Hunting for http proxy servers (Score:2)
The only ports they really need to check are 80, 1080, 8080 and maybe a couple of others that are in common use. Then they send an HTTP GET command to try to access some publicly visible system like Yahoo, or maybe the local government home page. If it works, they've found a proxy server. More often they get a 404 or some similar erro
This time maybe you'll get past the filters... (Score:1)
port scanning is a gray area, unless your caught (Score:1)
Port scanning is akin to ringing somebodies phone and hanging up when they pick up. Fun, potentialy annoying, potentialy very annoying with regards to the target.
The only people I portscan are people who appear in my firewall logs or friends with prior concent. Never throw the 1st
Re:port scanning is a gray area, unless your caugh (Score:2, Insightful)
That is really a crock. If a program crashes because of data it receives from the network, it is buggy, and should be fixed. Unless the sender sends data with the intention to interfere with the scanned machine's operation, it is silly to blame the sender for damage. This is a commo
Re:port scanning is a gray area, unless your caugh (Score:1)
Censorship (Score:1)
An anti-nerd conspiracy?
Scanning is.. well, interesting. (Score:5, Funny)
All my firewall events go into a DB, which I query daily. I have a set of reports showing things like average scans per second per host, most popular ports, most popular times of day, etc. If I see something incredibly suspicious I suppose I would try to investigate further -- but most of the time I just have a good time watching people bounce off my firewall.
If you don't want people sending packets to various ports on your box, perhaps you should disconnect it from the Internet.
Re:Scanning is.. well, interesting. (Score:1)
You set that up yourself or use some tool? In the latter case, which one?
Re:Scanning is.. well, interesting. (Score:2)
It took only a few hours to set up and ensure everything was working right. I highly recommend that you use syslog-ng so that you can direct the logs to both a FIFO *and* a plain file. That way if the DB goes down it continues logging, and
They're going to get people hurt. *Physically* (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They're going to get people hurt. *Physically* (Score:1)
Slashdot Blocked by US K12 (Score:2, Interesting)
Potentials of port scanning... (Score:2, Insightful)
By making this knowledge available to those who live in countries whose government censor internet access, they become empowered to bypass whatever censorship that's imposed on them. The government may block public proxy servers or sites that provide listings to them, but they can't stop someone from discovering proxy servers themselves!
For t
Port scanning grey area (Score:1)
Where I work... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Join Us! (Score:1)
Fuque the French (Score:2)
A Correction.... (Score:1)
DOS a country?
You may DOS a couple of proxies, but only countries with minimal connectivity would be DOS'd by a few portscans.
Besides, it's Foutes les Francais - les singes qui mangent fromage et surrendent...
Re:A Correction.... (Score:2)
But as for my DOS the country comment, if you have this thing actively port-scanning an entire country several hundred thousand times, that sounds like a DOS to me. Of course, that is limited by that site's bandwidth, since its not a DDOS.
Re:Being an ICE developer (Score:2, Funny)
Your troll would have got modded up if you said CSIS and RCMP instead of FBI and CIA.
Why would the FBI or CIA be in toronto? It's just silly.
Plus, I'm pretty sure it's Anna Malle. (Annamalle..animal) She's probably the reigning double penetration porn queen, besides Kate Fent, of course.
No way dude (Score:1)
Re:Being an ICE developer (Score:2)
You fail!
Re:Being an ICE developer (Score:2)
By the way, she's an Iowan from Ft. Madison.
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
I do defend all human rights, and will continue to do so.
I do hate it when Americans (or people of any nationality) try to force their ideals on the rest of the world. However, nobody is forcing non-censorship on anyone.
It is not OK for a country to remove a corrupt government in another country, for the same reason that it is not OK for a country to remove a non-corrupt government. What give
Fuckwit (Score:1)
Yes, we do. Any problems with that, you colonial fuckwit?
It's OK to circumvent another countries censorship laws, but it's not ok to try to remove a corrupt government that tortures and abuses it's people, or is hostile to neighbouring countries?
Yes - circumventing censorship laws tends not to kill lots of civilians, whereas forcible regime change is a little messy (you Yanks should know - you're nearly as good at it as
Re:Hmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, we do hate it.
It's OK to circumvent another countries censorship laws, but it's not ok to try to remove a corrupt government that tortures and abuses it's people, or is hostile to neighbouring countries?
No, it's not OK to not respect the UN and its jurisdiction. It takes a big man to say "We know we're right, but the UN says we're wrong, so we'll do what we want anyway because we're the biggest." It takes a big
Re:Hmm... (Score:2)
Sometimes, what's popular isn't what's best.
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
No, this is the weak option. It's the option where he doesn't back down, whatever the cost. Including the potential cost of the entire UN process.
If the US believes in the UN, and the UN charter, then the US should not attack Iraq without UN sanction. If the US goes against the UN, there is a dangerous precedent being set that will allow other nations to do the same, because they "know they're right". Including proliferate nuclear weapons, including proliferate other weapons of mass destruction, including
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)