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Privacy Your Rights Online

Michelin to Include RFID Transmitter in Every Tire 688

Posted by timothy from the tire-trading-clubs dept.
An anonymous reader writes "According to the RFID Journal, Michelin (the tire manufacturer) has announced that it is planning on embedding RFID transmitters into every tire. The article states that 'the microchip stores the tire's unique ID, which can be associated with the vehicle identification number.' Let the privacy invasion begin!" If they're going to embed electronics in tires, I wish they'd start with tiny pressure gauges. (See also this story from a few days ago about the coming surge in RFID tags.)
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Michelin to Include RFID Transmitter in Every Tire More

Michelin to Include RFID Transmitter in Every Tire

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  • Are these things going to be static-safe? What would one of those handheld Tesla coils do to them? There could be an instant cottage industry in de-RFID-tagging stuff.
  • Uh, what if I don't want to buy freakin' Michelin tires? How 'bout the vehicle manufacturers incorporate this into their products as an *optional* feature (much like an alarm system) and let me choose whether or not I want it as a theft deterrent?

    OTOH, I can't wait for the Jack in The Box antenna ornaments with GPS positioning systems.

  • tire gauges (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sammyc/. ( 113627 )
    ya it'd be nice not to have to pay like 150 for an electronic tire guage to send it to your dashboard or something these days.
    But more importantly, I doubt this will be a huge invasion of privacy deal, seriously it's not like you don't have the registration to your car and everything already, assuming we all aren't car theives I don't think we have anything to worry about.

    • actually (Score:3, Interesting)

      by _avs_007 ( 459738 )
      Tire guages can be had for next to nothing. Most cars today that have a "low tire pressure" warning light, use the ABS system to determine this. In my car, it described how it works in the service manuals I bought. The computer uses the ABS sensor to determine when rotational speed has changed due to low tire pressure. Of course the software has to take into account when you are turning, etc etc, but does not need "new" components installed in the system. (granted you have abs)....

      I also agree with the previous post. Tying the tire to the registration shouldn't be a big deal. Its not like I can't walk up to your car, and read the VIN directly off the windshield. And its also not like I can't read your license plate number, take it to the DMV, and pull your records for a cheap fee of 7 dollars... (Don't you love Oregon?) Or free, as sometimes people like to post the database on-line, but they usually get nasty-grams shortly thereafter.

  • who ordered this? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:27PM (#5131170)
    funny, as a consumer who actually buys the tires, I don't remember ever asking for this.
    • funny, as a consumer who actually buys the tires, I don't remember ever asking for this

      Amen! Mod parent up!

    • Congress did, I guess (Score:5, Informative)

      by hobo2k ( 626482 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @10:24PM (#5132415) Journal
      2nd paragraph of the article:
      The US Congress passed the TREAD (Transportation, Recall, Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation) Act in the wake of the Firestone/Ford Explorer debacle. The act mandates that car makers closely track tires from the 2004 model year on, so they can be recalled if there's a problem. This technology could be available for the 2005 model year.

  • Don't Fuck with Homeland Security (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:27PM (#5131171)
    If they can put those things in tires, they can
    put them in condoms, too.

  • Overheard in a tire store near you (Score:5, Funny)

    by crstophr ( 529410 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:27PM (#5131173) Homepage
    "Sir, I just don't understand how you could have recieved puncture damage in the exact same spot on all 4 tires."

    or,

    "Why does the rubber on this tire appear melted?"

    Brings new meaning to the phrase burning rubber....

  • New slogan announced (Score:5, Funny)

    by Amsterdam Vallon ( 639622 ) <amsterdamvallon2003@yahoo.com> on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:27PM (#5131175) Homepage
    "You now have a lot more riding on your tires, so don't do anything stupid 'cause we're watchin' your ass, bitch."

  • Next thing you know (Score:5, Funny)

    by glrotate ( 300695 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:27PM (#5131178) Homepage
    They'll make you put an identification tag on your bumper

  • The Law, and they do! (Score:5, Informative)

    by agentZ ( 210674 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:28PM (#5131183)
    The tire makers are just trying to comply with the law! The TREAD (Transportation, Recall, Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation) Act requires tire makers to track all of their tires in case they need to recall them. Blame Congress, not the tire makers.

    Oh, and to respond to the editors comment about how they should make tired that track tire pressure instead, they already do! [rfidjournal.com] (Is it okay for me to tell the editor to RTFA?
    • The TREAD (Transportation, Recall, Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation) Act requires tire makers to track all of their tires in case they need to recall them. Blame Congress, not the tire makers.
      Personally, I would like it if I went into my car dealership (Jiffy Lube, whatever), and when they scanned my tires they said "Hey, these have been recalled". With all the recalls that are out in the market today, there is no central authority (that I could find with a quick Google, anyhow) that shows all the recalls. Even if there is, I doubt that most people are bothered enough to check every day for things that could be affecting their lives.

      The Ford Explorer tragedies were horrible. My friend's cousin was the fourth documented case in the state of Florida. If implementing technology like this can save one life, I say go for it!

    • How is an RFID tag more useful than just printing a serial number on the outside of the tire?

    • Re:The Law, and they do! (Score:5, Funny)

      by CleverNickName ( 129189 ) <wilNO@SPAMwilwheaton.net> on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:47PM (#5131396) Homepage Journal
      Blame Congress, not the tire makers.

      Oh don't worry, we already are. If there's an invasion of privacy going on, Congress is somehow involved.

      Oh, and Hillary Rosen.

    • bar code? something smells. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by twitter ( 104583 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @08:46PM (#5131861) Homepage Journal
      The tire makers are just trying to comply with the law! The TREAD (Transportation, Recall, Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation) Act requires tire makers to track all of their tires in case they need to recall them.

      Recalls are not driving this. It would be cheaper to do this another way and unique IDs are not needed for recalls.

      Does anyone think it's cheaper to "invest" in all new equipment than it is to use established bar codes? Tell me why the company can't paint a nice little white bar coded serial number on the side of the tire? Everyone's got barcode readers and they would be more practical. How is a tire shop going to check the serial number of a single tire, when every tire in range answers?

      RFIDs are only useful for others who have nothing to do with tire recalls. Does anyone really expect to be told that their tires are recalled? Most recalls are silent, you either find out about them on your own from paid advertisements or you don't. While it would be very nice for Michalin to contact me if my particular lot of tires is bum, I don't see what that has to do with someone being able to ID my car from a distance. If tire lot is all you need, why the unique number? Won't unique serial numbers actually impeed lot recognition? When tires are sold at a shop all the information the company needs to meet the stated goal is collected. After that, no one else needs to know who you are.

  • One good product deserves another. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Chmarr ( 18662 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:28PM (#5131186)
    One of the first products I can see coming out of this event is little EMP generators that allow you to detect, then blow the living daylight out of the RF circuitry in these things. Remember... any good transmitter is a good receiver, too... find the resonant frequency of this receiver, and you can pump enough energy into it to melt the traces.

    Instant privacy.
    • One of the first products I can see coming out of this event is little EMP generators that allow you to detect, then blow the living daylight out of the RF circuitry in these things. Remember... any good transmitter is a good receiver, too... find the resonant frequency of this receiver, and you can pump enough energy into it to melt the traces.

      Mmmm. But will it be legal? Or could you be found guilty of circumventing (or distributing equipment to circumvent) a certified consumer protection device?

      (I'd invoke the DMCA here, but I can't imagine how in the world even it could be used).

  • Swaping like grocery store cards (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fluid Truth ( 100316 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:28PM (#5131189)
    So, are we going to start seeing people swap tires with each other? I'd read the article but it's already dead. Is swaping tires going to become illegal without re-registering them with the new vehicle? It'd be pretty cool to have whoever is tracking this see most vehicles in four different places at once.

  • Tinfoil Shielding.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by GeneralEmergency ( 240687 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:28PM (#5131190) Journal

    ...is pretty easy to hide under my hat, but how am I going to wrap my tires up in tinfoil without the spy satellites seeing me?

  • oooh, let's network them. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Joe the Lesser ( 533425 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:28PM (#5131192) Homepage Journal
    If Firestone does it, they'll be sure to include this code:

    Tire leftFrontTire = new Tire(props); ...
    if(leftFrontTire.pressure > randomVar) {
    leftFrontTire.implode();
    }

  • Some Cars Already Have Pressure Warning Systems (Score:3, Informative)

    by MythosTraecer ( 141226 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:28PM (#5131193)
    If they're going to embed electronics in tires, I wish they'd start with tiny pressure gauges

    Several cars already have tire low pressure warning systems. I know the Chevy Corvette has had such a system for the past decade, at least.

  • Boycott! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:29PM (#5131205) Homepage Journal
    Screw Michelin then. I'd rather buy a Firestone. In fact I've been very happy with my Firestone Winterfires. Low price, good traction, no RFID, and the tread hasn't peeled off yet.

    Seriously this is crazy. Yeah RF ID tags have a limited range and when pinged can reply with only contain a single large integer. However lets review:

    Many cars pass through tollbooths, drive throughs, etc. frequently. Any of these locations could easily be fitted with RFID scanners.

    Even if Michelin doesn't share their RFID info with anybody else, it would still be pretty easy for the tollboth to read out all 4 numbers in your tires and take a snapshot of your license plate. DING! And even if they DON'T know your license plate/make/model/etc they can still see every time those 4 tires roll past their scanner.

    Now I have to microwave my tires before I get them mounted.

    BTW this article involves your rights and is online, hence "Your Rights Online". Quit your bitching.

    • Re:Boycott! (Score:5, Funny)

      by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld@ g m a i l . com> on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:47PM (#5131394) Homepage
      Screw Michelin then. I'd rather buy a Firestone.

      Firestones are great except for that flipping over and blowing up part.

      • Re:Boycott! (Score:3, Interesting)

        by n1ywb ( 555767 )
        Or you could just not buy an SUV ;)

        Anyway think about it, new Firestones are probably the SAFEST tires on the road. They're triple-checking everything.

  • Total Information Awareness -- Redux (Score:5, Funny)

    by webword ( 82711 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:29PM (#5131207) Homepage
    Excellent. Now maybe we can do an even better job tracking John M. and Linda Poindexter [cryptome.org].

  • So how is this a privacy issue? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by alen ( 225700 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:30PM (#5131209)
    The manufacturer already knows which VIN goes to who. The bank knows the VIN of the car since it issues the loan. Your state government knows the VIN of your car when you register it. Your insurance company knows your VIN and everything about your car from it. Everytime you bring your car to the dealer they they note the work done by your VIN so the manufacturer can notice any major problems. So how is this going to take away from your privacy?
    • Yeah but people just can't secretly scan your VIN every time you go through a tollbooth, stop at a traffic light (You KNOW that those wires in the road don't really make the light green), or drive through McDonalds.
      • Yeah but people just can't secretly scan your VIN every time you go through a tollbooth, stop at a traffic light (You KNOW that those wires in the road don't really make the light green), or drive through McDonalds.

        You are definitely right, it's absolutely absurd that they're doing this. Next thing we're going to be given an identification number that we have to prominently display on our car that is linked to our VIN that _anybody_ can see and find out information about us!

    • The manufacturer already knows which VIN goes to who. The bank knows the VIN of the car since it issues the loan. Your state government knows the VIN of your car when you register it. Your insurance company knows your VIN and everything about your car from it. Everytime you bring your car to the dealer they they note the work done by your VIN so the manufacturer can notice any major problems. So how is this going to take away from your privacy?
      Because the RFID tags can be read remotely, making it possible, effectively, to read your VIN remotely. Of course your state already has your VIN - that's what creates the privacy bugaboo. If the RFID in the tires is associated with the VIN, a sensor in or near the roadway could read the VIN of passing cars. There are existing RFID systems that can identify vehicles remotely (e.g. EZPass toll collection systems), but EZPass is optional and obvious (in that one has to sign up for EZPass, and the tag is mounted in the windscreen area). This is an RFID tag embedded in a tire - it's not like you sign up for it seperately. THAT'S the issue.

      -Isaac

  • Excellent (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:30PM (#5131213)
    The best use I could think of for this would be for those drive-through beer and liquor stores. Every time a car drove through, you could record the ids' of its tires. Then, if the customer bought cigarettes, you could store the tire ids in a database of cigarette buyers. You could sell this database to health insurance companies for a fortune so they could bust people who made fraudulent claims about being a nonsmoker on their health insurance and deny them benefits.

    Man, this is a terriffic idea.

  • Easy to disable (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:31PM (#5131218) Homepage
    Just use an icepick to perforate the chip. :)

    This decision was mentioned a few days ago in the Times I think, and the intent to transmit tire pressures was specified. As for privacy problems, I think it's a little premature. Anyone close enough to scan your "tire chips" could just write down or photograph your license plate anyway (thouse red light cameras come pretty close), and soon enough with OCR traffic cameras will be able to record your passing. So anonymity in public is a fleeting thing anyway, and the Fourth Amendment won't stop it.

    Also, it is easy enough to buy tires anonymously by using the green stuff.

    To protect privacy, campaigning has to focus on the weak leak: The government. That the administration would even propose TIA reflects a serious problem already; privacy is the orphan right.
    • Just use an icepick to perforate the chip
      Of course, you do need to find the chip first. Those things are getting really small at this point.

      and soon enough with OCR traffic cameras will be able to record your passing. So anonymity in public is a fleeting thing anyway, and the Fourth Amendment won't stop it.

      I hate this argument, every time I see it. I agree that with the current technology, it is becoming eaiser to do this sort of thing, but why exactly should we adopt the attitude of "roll over and accept it"? The only way privacy issues will ever gain any traction now, or in the future, is if we start fighting them where we can. The idea that privacy is already gone and we should "get over it" is absolute idiocy.

      Also, it is easy enough to buy tires anonymously by using the green stuff.

      You're forgetting that the shop, which installs the tires, collects all of the information about the customer. (VIN, name, address, telephone number). Unless you mount all of your tires yourself, which is a real pain without the right equipment.

      In my not so humble opinion, this whole monitoring and tracking thing is really turned on its head. The govenment is there to serve the people. Not the other way around. If anything, we should have tracking devices implanted in all govenment officials, and in all govenment equipment, such that, any one who wishes to, could log on to a web site and track any and all govenment resources, except where it might create a real national security issue.

      • Re:Easy to disable (Score:3, Informative)

        by MacAndrew ( 463832 )
        The idea that privacy is already gone and we should "get over it" is absolute idiocy.

        Gee, thanks. :)

        My point was different: I think fighting tire chips is silly because the state already has plenty of alternatives. We can't stop it because it's already happened, and making a protest over some token new item is a waste of time; we might as well accept whatever benefits we can get.

        The prevalence of video cameras makes me skeptical that law enforcement would bother assembling the database and tearing up all the streets when they already have a great system of tracking -- license plates. It wasn't widely discussed, but the snipers' license plates were run something like 9 times and their plate was photographed by a red light camera in the weeks they were doing their thing. If we had known what we were looking for we would have caught them earlier; meanwhile, law enforcement was apparently running the plates on no specific suspicion (remember, everyone said we were looking for a white truck). So ... how often do average citizens have their plate checked? I bet it's a lot, now that squad cars have computers and constant wireless links. And every time they do, it's a record of where the car was at what time. Next, the cameras will do this work automatically. Screw the tire chips.

        The Fourth Amendment is no help, because the Supreme Court ruled [findlaw.com] 20 years ago that the police could place a tracking device on your care without a warrant (!). I doubt exterior surveillance by camera would raise a constitutional problem, though I do hope that the Supreme Court will at some point look at the aggregate of all these little intrusions and conclude that an overall police state is unconstitutional. However, that would inject them into government in a way the Court does not want; and they've been fairly indifferent to privacy (notwithstanding the surprise thermal imaging decision).

        So the effort of privacy advocates must be in legislation. The courts won't do it, and avoiding Michelin tires definitely won't do it. I'm hardly advocating acquiescence, just not tilting at windmills.

        Oh, the icepick was a joke. :)
    • From what I know of RFID chips, they use a tuned tank circuit to power the return pulse. A relatively strong signal close to the device should easily be able to reduce this circuit to a ruin without hurting anything. I think this is similar to how the tags get disabled that they put on clothes to prevent shoplifting.

      If these are in my next $1600cdn set of Michelin Pilot Sports, I'll have a circuit to disable them on the net in the summer. I didn't buy those tires 'cause I like driving 55mph.

  • This is happening slowly, but SURELY. In 2010 Slashdot will have articles such as "ChildTracker-2000(TM) is now a mandatory installation at all Hospitals in the United States(C). All newborns will be protected with a tiny chip installed under their skin in the palm of their hand."

    Seriously, what's to say, after EVERYTHING is tagged, that the masses could not also be tagged themselves? The Government tells women what they can and can't do with their own bodies all the time (abortion). Extend that control to men's bodies as well, and add human-chip implants.

  • Pressure Monitors (Score:2, Informative)

    by pll178 ( 544842 )
    You can already buy pressure monitors for your tires. It's not as cool as an embedded pressure gauge, but it does the job and it's wireless so you can get realtime data.

    http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/smartire/sma rt ire_all.jsp
  • I hope that the police and the federal goverment's various security organizations never use Michelin tires on their cars :) We would know when the police are going to be around all the time.

  • I have michelin pilot sports on my zr-1 corvette. absolutely the best tires I've ever had on a sports car.

    I'm curious - have they compensated in the design for asymetrical weight? Its one thing on a regular econobox that might see 70 or 80 mph, and another for a car that is capable of seeing 180+ (not entirely stock). I'd hate to have a tire come apart at that speed during a track event (anyone dumb enough to do 3+ miles per minute on the interstate deserves to have the tire come apart)

    Since the feds are requiring this, there is probably limited liablility, if any, on the tire manufacturers part.

    Finally the article isn't really specific - is this for new cars only, or every single tire sold? Too bad that tires age and deteriorate, or I'd stock up on a few sets (listens to wallet sigh in relief).

  • F1 cars have pressure gauges (Score:3, Interesting)

    by autopr0n ( 534291 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:39PM (#5131305) Homepage Journal
    and they actually use spread-spectrum radio to communicate the level back to the driver in real time.

    Cost a lot more then RFID tags, I'm sure.
  • There are talking of adding RF monitors of temperature and preasure. All we need is some way to disable the unique ID transmission.
  • Coming Soon! Condoms with RFIDs, for those annoying paternity suits!
  • I'd be all for this if it were Firestone. That way, when my tire goes, they'll be able to identify my body.

  • RFID FAQ (Score:5, Informative)

    by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:51PM (#5131423) Homepage Journal
    Since a lot of ppl are asking a lot of the same questions about RFID devices, I thought I'd answer some here.

    More information can be had from Microchip [microchip.com], a leading manufacturer of RFID devices. A lot of this information is coming from their RFID Design Guide [microchip.com]

    1. What is an RFID tag?
    An RFID tag is a very small microcontroller and radio transmitter/receiver. They typically consist of a single chip and a single coil which behaves as an antenna.

    2. What does an RFID tag transmit?
    Most RFID tags transmit a single large integer number, unique to that individual tag. A serial number, if you will. Some RF tags also have a very small amount of ROM/EEPROM, and so could transmit a little more info and can even be reprogrammed by the "reader".

    3. How are they powered?
    The RFID "reader" device emits RF energy. The RFID tag receives this energy and uses it to power itself. It's a lot like an old AM crystal radio. The device transmits its number over and over at a very high bps for a high level of data redundancy.

    There is a whole shitload more technical modulation theory and stuff that goes on here which I'm leaving out. If you aren't a ham or other radio type person it would probably be meaningless. Again if you would like more info, look here [microchip.com].

    • Re:RFID FAQ (Score:5, Informative)

      by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @08:27PM (#5131705) Homepage Journal
      4. From how far away can the tag be read?
      The typical range is a few feet, a la Mobil SpeedPass or tollbooth EZPass. Think about how often you come within a few feet of something that could secretly house an RFID tag reader... The THEORETICAL range limit is a few feet PLUS line-of-sight. A high gain antenna on the reader could read tags from a great distance away, just like your Pringles can 802.11 antenna.

      5. Aren't RF tags already on all kinds of stuff as an anti theft measure?
      No. The RF tags at BestBuy are not ID tags. They don't have a serial number in them. They are ON or OFF. Take one out if you don't belive me, it's just a strip of metal, just like in library books. They are not active devices. An RFID tag is a COMPUTER with RAM and ROM and a data radio.

  • I actually don't mind this much.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:55PM (#5131454) Journal
    Here's why.

    First of all, privacy's not really a big issue in this instance A good portion of driving happens on public roadways already -- where one is obligated to have the car's license plates plainly visible (which can, all by themselves, be used as identifying information). This coupled with the necessity of the ability to produce a valid drivers license and vehicle registration where circumstances warrant shows that a person doesn't really have much right to privacy while driving anyways.

    Secondly, identifying arbitrary individuals with this would be like finding a needle in a haystack (more specifically, like getting one particular needle out of a haystack made of almost identical needles).

    Besides... the usefulness that technology like this would have for being able to track stolen vehicles is obvious.

    Oh, I do agree with the original poster on the point that embedding tire gauges into tires would be a really cool feature.

  • Only the Wackos Will Let This Bother Them (Score:3, Insightful)

    by reallocate ( 142797 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @07:59PM (#5131474)
    Only three kinds of people will let this change their behavior:

    1. The truly paranoid
    2. The truly criminal
    3. People whose self-esteem rests on believing that everyone but them is crooked and evil.

    People can surveil you anywhere you go, your car can be identified in commercial satellite imagery, the grocery knows what you buy, the phone company knows who you call, the cable company knows what TV programs you watch, and your ISP knows what web sites you visit and who gets your email.....and now you're upset?

  • Not a big deal (Score:3, Interesting)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @08:36PM (#5131774)
    I worked in the tire retail channel (consumer & commercial) for 5 years. Every tire already has a unique id...this is just an improvement on the process.

    This will allow for improved tracking of products and product defects/hazards. Nothing new in terms of associating a tire with a car or owner. In fact, if someone steals your tires/wheels, you just might stand a better chance of recovery.

    The black helicopters already have enough means to track you...they don't need help from the tire industry.

  • Look what happened to me (Score:5, Interesting)

    by grundie ( 220908 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @08:38PM (#5131806)
    I used to work for a software firm, who were based in a large building and with multiple tennants. To control access to our part of the building we were issued with contactless swipe cards. Which are a sort of crude, low power RFID system.

    We thought they were purely for access control, but we were in for a surprise. The management had fitted special sensors at the toilet and cafe doors as well as at the drinks machines and smoking rooms. We had no idea management had done this, we just though new heating control thermometers were being fitted.

    Once our bi-monthly productivity appraisals came round we were presented with a detailed breakdown of our movement round the building. I was asked why I made 12 visits to the coffee machine in one day (all drinks were free) and why I once spent more than 10 minutes in the toilet,

    What management had done was turn the securty cards in to tracking devices. Basically if we went within 4 feet of these sensors, it was logged. We had always assumed that the cards had to be within 2 inches of a sensor to be recognised, not so aparently. This whole setup was implemented to try and achieve productivity gains, in fact it did the opposite. A lot of people spent more and more time on the toilet for some reason and other people developed a habit of forgetting their cards and having to get security to release the doors remotely.

    The moral of the story is what started as a innocent security system, turned in to a tracking system which caused people serious stress. I know my employers are allowed to know what I do on their time, but having to justify my toilet habits is my idea of how such technology as RFID systems can be misused. Incidentally, the system was switched off after the unions got on the case.

    • Re:Look what happened to me (Score:5, Funny)

      by shepd ( 155729 ) <slashdot.orgNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @09:16PM (#5132056) Homepage Journal
      >A lot of people spent more and more time on the toilet for some reason and other people developed a habit of forgetting their cards and having to get security to release the doors remotely.

      You're telling me nobody flushed 'em down the toilet? That would be fun for the tracking system!

      Or, a favourite. Buy a sandwich at the sandwich machine. Put the card in the sandwich's place. Heh.

      No, no, best idea: Plant the card on your boss. When he chews out your ass, tell him to check his.

  • Easy to disable (Score:3, Interesting)

    by T4D ( 602592 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @08:43PM (#5131840)
    If RFID tags where in everything, and the govt. had RFID readers everywhere, then I might be a little concerned. However, even if RFIDs where that pervasive, it would still be easy to become invisible to all those RFID scanners. Just microwave all your clothes. As small as ther are I cannot imagine an RFID tag being able to remain intact when hit with a large EM field. Tracking down and disabling RFIDs in your vehicle shouldn't be that difficult either.

  • General Comments (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mandrews ( 139863 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @08:58PM (#5131936) Homepage
    After reading the entire discussion, there are some excellent comments but quite a bit of outright speculation. A few facts (mostly from the story):
    The US Congress passed the TREAD (Transportation, Recall, Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation) Act in the wake of the Firestone/Ford Explorer debacle. The act mandates that
    car makers closely track tires from the 2004 model year on, so they can be recalled if there's a problem.
    It's auto manufactures who are responsible for tracking tires for recall. Michelin appears to be offering these tires to them (not the general consumer) for recall purposes. The suggestion about JiffyLube checking your tires for recall when you change your oil is, I think, what Michelin wants the car manufactures to do when you go to your dealer for service.
    Michelin hopes manufacturers will pay a little more for tires with RFID transponders, because it makes the tires easier to track.
    Michelin says the transponders cost "several dollars" today, but the price will drop if they are manufactured in mass volumes ... It's not clear yet whether automakers will be willing to pay the additional cost.
    Michelin tires already tend to be more expensive. They don't want to make it worse unless the manufactures will pay for it.
    The microchip stores the tire's unique ID, which can be associated with the vehicle identification number. The chip can also store information about when and where the tire was made, its maximum inflation pressure, size and so on.
    This same information can be gathered from other parts of the car. Michelin is trying to make things easier for the car dealers.
    But Michelin claims to be the first to meet the Automotive Industry Action Group's B-11 standard for North America, which calls for a read distance of 24 inches.
    As has already been pointed out, these things are passive devices. You pump a signal at them with a hand-held reader and it uses that energy to transmit. One of the points in the article is how much work is took to get a 24 inch read range. The only way you can use them to recover your stolen tires/wheels is to find them yourself and use the RFID as proof of ownership. As for tracking your children, you would need detectors spaced four feet apart in every road of your state.

    I've seen a picture of one of these tires in some other article. Michelin is so proud of solving the technical challenges, they are putting stickers on the side of the tires. Two years from now, if you want to know if its in your tire, look for the sticker. After all, the "technicians" changing your oil need to be able to tell if they can use the new-fangled tire reader on your tires or not.

  • Ultimate Privacy Solutions (Score:3, Funny)

    by angst_ridden_hipster ( 23104 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @09:35PM (#5132169) Homepage Journal
    Walk places.

    Take the fucking bus.

    Ride around on your banned Segway.

    "When pogo-sticks get outlawed, only outlaws will bounce around and not be tracked by the Feds."

  • French Nazi's (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tomy ( 34647 ) on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @10:49PM (#5132575)
    I worked for Michelin for seventeen years, so I might be a resource on this. Michelin management is basically a bunch of Nazi's disguised as french. And that is just the little Napoleon's running around (You know who you are Camille), American management is worse than the french, basically bloodsucking leaches that will steal any idea for their own personal gain (Hi Jim!). These aren't pointy heads, but pointy horned bosses. I use to say buy Michelin for the quality, but if you buy Michelin, you are supporting human rights abuses.

  • Refuting some common arguments (Score:5, Interesting)

    by n-baxley ( 103975 ) <nate&baxleys,org> on Tuesday January 21, 2003 @10:55PM (#5132608) Homepage Journal
    People are saying who cares:
    1) You have to be 2 feet from the tire.
    2) You already have license plates
    3) This just IDs the tire, not you
    4) No one cares about you

    Now I'm not a paranoid freak, but these are just stupid arguments as I'll demonstrate.
    1) When you pull through the drive through at McD's and the Bank, you are less than 2 feet and sit there for quite some time. McD's might like to now that VIN #12345 always orders a BigMac, and by linking your VIN to you, they know what you like.
    2) Yes, but license plates can not be read without direct line of site, by a computer, for little or no cost.
    3) This ties the tires to the VIN of your car, which IDs you.
    4) The government may not be trying to track me down, but companies would love to have a way to track their customers.

    Let's all not get too paranoid, but at least think things through.

  • I have to raise the B.S. Flag (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mustang Matt ( 133426 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @01:00AM (#5133125)
    I can't possibly see them putting this into every tire... It would raise the cost too much making them uncompetitive.

    I could *maybe* see them putting this into the highest of high performance tires as security devices.

  • Sorry but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Chicane-UK ( 455253 ) <chicane-uk@ntlwor l d . c om> on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @04:16AM (#5133681) Homepage
    ..I find this whole 'my rights online' and the associated paranoia hilarious.

    Pretty much every excuse ever given for not having measures like this introduced into products, relates to not getting caught breaking the law!

    Not only that, but it is extreme paranoia.. for example, how do you go from talking about RFID tags in tyres, right up to saying that people will be able to view on the internet whose house you parked at, or which garages you were filling up at? It just wouldn't happen.

    But what about the plus sides? Could RFID tags in all of your tyres, if matched to your VIN number (and consequently your name and address) be useful in tracking stolen cars? Considering the apparent breach of 'my rights', I think that is a pretty useful advantage.

    As far as I see it, in all of these cases if you dont break the law then you have nothing to lose. I am not saying that I dont break the law (who can honestly say they never have) but never to the point where I have risked going to jail, and never to the extreme that I am worried about getting caught.

  • How long till they act like Lexmark? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ToastyKen ( 10169 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @08:38AM (#5134510) Homepage Journal
    How long will it be before the car authenticates the chip in the tire so you can only use authorized brands of tires? If a third party makes a compatible tire, the car manufacturer can sue them for "hacking into our Tire Management System"....

  • Garage (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AlgUSF ( 238240 ) on Wednesday January 22, 2003 @09:30AM (#5134844) Homepage
    What would be cool is if your driveway could have a sensor in it that reads the RFID on your tire and automatically open the garage door for you. No more worrying who has the remote.
  • First of all remember a RFID tag is useless without a reader. No reader in range, no ID. Second, the scan range is somewhat limited. It's going to be difficult to scan the tags from anywhere other than inside the vehicle when it's moving.

    This has some advantages for the consumer beyond the inventory and supply chain management improvements for Michelin.

    For one it will be easier to spot counterfit Michelin tires. Before you scoff be aware this is a big problem for Michelin and some other high end tire makers. It is not uncommon to buy a brand name tire and get a phony tire made overseas or a re-tread sold as new.

    Another application would be to embed multiple tags to indicate tire wear. When certain tags wear away you will know the tire needs to be replaced.

    Imaging the RFID tags were combined with pressure and temprature gauges. This would allow you to know this from inside the car while it was moving.

    I doubt the "Man" is going to go around installing RFID readers everywhere just because one tire maker with a small slice of the market starts putting tags in their tires. Besides all you get when you get when you read a RFID tag is a number. A unique number to be sure, but without a lookup to the various supply chain databases a fairly meaningless number.

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