Kevin Free 500
An anonymous reader writes: "Surely many of you will remember that before there was ever a cry to 'Free Dimitry Sklyarov', Free Kevin Mitnick was the call of many. He was convicted on 'hacking' charges, though many on the Internet found the charges and trial to be unfair. He was freed in January 2000, but not allowed to touch a computer or log onto the Internet until January 20, 2003. See the story at CNN or read some background info at freekevin.com. "
I'M FREE (Score:5, Funny)
Photo of the cloned baby woman! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I'M FREE (Score:5, Funny)
Free Kevin? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Free Kevin? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Free Kevin? (Score:5, Funny)
"Do you mean free as in bird, or free as in Willy?"
Hee hee. The people who take themselves too seriously are going to love that one.
Re:Free Kevin? (Score:2)
Re:Free Kevin? (Score:2)
There you go. I think people who accept what the FSF say aren't thinking clearly because they tend to believe that software licensed under the GPL is "free to use, modify, and copy, without restrictions." This is, quite simply, not at all true.
Do you *like* having to buy three copies of windows for three computers and stuff like that?
I'm a Mac user myself. Until recently, we had four Macs in our house. (Two of mine, including one quite old, my girlfriend's laptop, and a company laptop.) I recently divested myself of one of those. But back in August, when Apple released Mac OS X 10.2, I cheerfully plopped my $199 down for a five-user license. Why? Because I knew exactly what I would be getting for my money, and considered it to be a bargain at twice the price.
Maybe we should call it "flexible" software instead of "free", how about that.
Hmm. I haven't heard that one before. I think you might be on to something.
Unfortunately-- and this is most definitely one of my hot buttons-- I doubt that the FSF will ever consider dropping the term "free software" for a more accurate name. See, it seems that the FSF is more concerned with politics and with marketing than with accuracy or honesty. They call their software "free" not because it is, but because "free" is a more positive word than "flexible," or any other alternative.
The FSF's use of "free" to (incorrectly) describe their product leads to things like I saw yesterday, where an FSF advocate asked, "What is it about freedom that you don't like?" The answer, of course, is nothing. There's nothing about freedom that I don't like. The FSF and the GPL, however, are different kettles of fish.
Re:Free Kevin? (Score:3)
The part about "free." The word "free" does not mean "bolted down." It means "free." If software is truly free, then it's not tangled up in restrictions, prohibitions, and obligations. Everything released under the GPL is thus entangled. Therefore, that which is covered by the GPL cannot possibly be called "free" by any widely accepted definition of the term.
The FSF gets around this by providing their own definition of "free." That's playing dirty pool, in my opinion.
This may seem like nitpicking, but a work derived from such works was never in "the commons" to begin with. It is not accurate to say that creating a closed work derived from an open work removes anything from "the commons."
The problem arises when people-- you may or may not fall into this category, I don't know yet-- hold the opinion that all software naturally belongs to everyone, and that trying to keep your own software secret is somehow stealing from this "commons" thing you mentioned. That idea runs counter to everything I believe about private property, so I cannot accept it.
based on some e-mail conversations I had with him following my receipt of a tirade purporting to be from him following release of my book -- an interesting story I would relate if anyone cares
I care. Would you tell the story here or in a journal article or something?
But support for the philosophy and the license terms of the GPL certainly does not automatically make me your mental inferior
Did I imply that I thought that was the case? If so, I apologize. Anybody can become confused, anybody can find himself in a situation where he's not thinking clearly. The fact that you're not thinking clearly doesn't mean you're not smart; it just means that, as I said, you need a couple of whacks from the perspective baton to reset your mental gyroscopes, to get you back to level.
As to why I feel compelled to be the wielder of said baton, I'll just copy-and-paste the quote that Slashdot felt compelled to display for me at the bottom of this page: "The most difficult thing in the world is to know how to do a thing and to watch someone else doing it wrong, without commenting. -- T.H. White"
What any of this has to do with Kevin Mitnick, however, escapes me.
I've forgotten, too.
Re:Kinds of Free (Score:2)
"Free as in Willy" means something that was set free, something that was released. Think of "free as in Willy" as being kind of like abandonware. It didn't start out free, but it was released into the wild later. Think "born in captivity, then released."
"Free as in bird," of course, means something that is born free (crap, now I've got that song running through my head instead!), something that was inherently free and cannot be caged.
Of course, until we have a real AI personality, this send of free isn't appropriate to thinking about software, while the other two are.
Beer, sure, but how is "free as in speech" appropriate for thinking about software? "Free speech" is a right that people have under law. The law says, basically, that I can say whatever I want, subject to certain boundaries. You can't lie in print with the intent to defame, for example. Applying the idea of free speech to software, you'd naturally end up with the idea that you can write any program you want, subject to certain boundaries. But those boundaries that apply to free speech wouldn't apply to software the same way; it makes little sense to say that you can't lie in a program with the intent to defame. That's just crazy talk.
So applying the idea of free speech to free software, you have "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of people to write computer programs."
What does this have to do with the FSF? Nothing, really. Which is why I said that "free as in speech" was never really appropriate to begin with.
I do like the idea of adding more kinds of free to the mix, as well as poking some fun at those who take themselves too seriously, but I think it needs a little work to actually be funny.
Maybe. But funny is as funny does, and it make me laugh.
Re:Free Kevin? (Score:5, Funny)
I think this merits a third freedom option.
Re:Free Kevin? (Score:2)
Let's hope he won't get into trouble again (Score:4, Funny)
S
not THAT funny (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Let's hope he won't get into trouble again (Score:2)
I suggest he take up VB.Net classes and work on IE plugins and IIS maintenance.
That's just what we need, the hacker who (in the minds of the semi-literate general public) embodies all that is bad about computing joining forces with the company that (in the minds of the semi-literate /. public) embodies all that is bad about computing.
You know, the more I think about it, the better the idea seems. It could put the final nail in Bill's coffin.
So where's the story here? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So where's the story here? (Score:5, Informative)
The FCC ruled that he has done his time for his crimes, so there's no valid reason to deny the renewal. Unfortunately, it took Kevin thousands in legal fees to get them to reach that conclusion.
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
However, I think not ever allowing him to use a computer again is a foolish punishment. Computers are too essential to life in America today for that to be a reasonable punishment.
Personally, I would like to see some sort of bargain between the court and Mitnick, whereby he gets to use computers again, but will face an ever tougher punishment if he is discovered hacking again.
Foolish Punishment?!?? (Score:2)
Foolish, right?
Re:Foolish Punishment?!?? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but someone who gets tanked and drives into a school bus killing a dozen kids on a revoked liscense due to his 11 DWI's typically will serve 1 year + 1 day in jail.
Kevin hacked into computers hypothetically causing monetary damages.
Kevin goes to prison for 5 years plus 2 years of strict probation where you'd better believe he's being watched like a hawk. The poor drunk spends 1 year + 1 day in jail (9 months with good behaviour) and gets to go out and celebrate by getting tanked and driving a car that night.
does that sound fair?
Re:Foolish Punishment?!?? (Score:5, Funny)
I find your "use" of "quotation marks" somewhat "confusing." Do you "mean" them as "irony" or as "emphasis?"
Just "asking."
Re:Foolish Punishment?!?? (Score:2)
Kevin was refused bail. You can argue the legality or morality of that. HOWEVER, the time spent in jail was KEVIN'S doing. KNOWING that he couldn't leave jail until after his trial, he kept requesting that his court date be postponed.
Know the facts.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
At least he wasn't busted under Bush's watch, else he would have been labeled an enemy combatent and been held indefinitely with no access to council let alone having charges bought or opportunity to fight them in a court of law.
DETAILS on his pretrial detention?? (Score:5, Informative)
Now, his initially being in detention w/o bail after an extended run as a federal fugitive should not surprise anyone. If you fled you pretty much demonstrated that you are a flight risk.
Also, that we was held longer that the 100-day Speedy Trial Act span is unsurprising because of the numerous "tolling provisions" that can stretch out that time. I think most prosecutions are affected by these.
Finally, that he waived Speedy Trial Act protection is not uncommon and was partly to his benefit, as it gave the defense more time to prepare for trial. In other words, he didn't waive to be nice to the gov't, although he was under considerable pressure to do so.
All this I understand except -- how did it all add up for 4 1/2 years? I have read a ton of criminal cases and never heard of anything like it. I'm not interested in hearing dark conspiracy theories. I suspect it was a failure of the system more than prosecutorial manipulation, and don't want to see it happen again. Was Mitnick partly responsible?
BTW, conditions in pretrial detention may have been better -- prisoners there, being pretrial, have incentive to play nice (I visited one of these places, and it was much nicer than even federal prison) -- and the 4 1/2 years may not have been excessive for his second offense, his flight, and other aggravating factors. But I don't think this is the right way to be doing things -- it would have been lovely if he proved to be innocent.
He waived his rights..... (Score:3, Insightful)
I forget the URL, but it was in the chapter of his book that was "lost in the edit" but ended up on the web. I forget the URL but it should come up here again during the discussion.
Personally, I believe him. He was a social engineer, not a technical hacker and very good at it too, causing no end of problems to a number of companies. However once caught, he was labeled as 'extremely dangerous' and caught up in a circus where he was first banned from using the phone as well as the computer. I don't believe he was innocent one little bit. At the same time, certain persons involved in prosecuting the case were busy trying to use him to promote themselves. Innocent, he wasn't, but he was treated badly by an incompetent justice system.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd choose a longer trial so by the time I got it, it wasnt a circus.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
All in all, I think this is a good thing. Americans, having disposed of royalty de jure, have a tendency to create it de facto, and a President can easily become a King in all but name. The President should get the same respect any human being gets, no more, no less -- and that means that when he does something stupid, we have every right to make use of that for both serious criticism and offhand jokes.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Hmm... when I was in US History class, the US Army, civilian life etc... I was taught that the ability to speak critically of our government was a fundamental right and was part of why this country worked. Thomas Jefferson was a gentleman but part of the reason we have 4 year terms is his thought that a government over 4 yrs old was in danger of corruption and advocated revolution REGULARLY.
Besides which, that was not a poke at the president. There is at least one American detained on terrorism charges whom is NOT ALLOWED to seek counsel by order of the president. So, his "poke" actually had JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY.
To the original author, I was a soldier in the 82d Airborne (A 1/325th PIR) and we defend your right to continue poking as we defend the constitution.
Hooah!
Re:What's worth respecting? (Score:2)
The office itself, instantiating and symbolizing a continuous line of peaceful succession lasting over 225 years, a feat unmatched by any democracy before or since.
One should not, under any circumstances, let one's disapproval of the person in the office or the policies of the office spill over into a disapproval of the office itself or the system in which it is a part.
It's that kind of thinking that leads to misguided conclusions like, "Democracy just doesn't work."
Just too funny (Score:2)
Umm. When did Bush say "I hereby invade country X in the name of oil company Y"?
Which country are you referring to?
Which oil company?
"bombing innocent people"
You mean the Canadians? Sorry, accidents happen. The pilot who did it got punished.
Or did you mean the Afghans who cheered in the streets after the US liberated them?
Just curious.
Re:WHY IS BUSH BASHING INSIGHTFUL? (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you one of those millions of people that want me dead? I'm certainly not on your side, unless of course you love me and care for me and want to give me the proper environment to learn and work in. But you're a heartless old republican.
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm inclined to agree. The injustice was not that Mitnick was tried and convicted for his crimes, but that he was treated as if he were some super-dangerous uberhacker, when in fact, he caused a lot more hassle than damage. The government imbued him with this mystique that is out-of-balance with what he actually accomplished.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Essential? Hardly. What do you do with your computer that you can't do-- better, in some instances-- in another way?
Sorry to sound so abrupt, but the persistent and widespread myth that the "computer age" is somehow fundamentally different from the times that came before it really gets on my nerves.
Just for fun, try taking a week off from your computer(s). Go camping or something. You'd be surprised how little you miss it.
Computers are essential? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a pretty broad statement. I assume you mean a PC or the internet. There are still millions of people in the US who don't own a PC who get along just fine. Computers are indeed essential for the industrial sector but we're not talking about work, we're talking about using the computer as tool for crime.
Sure, it might seem an unfair punishment to the folks who use
I lived years without having a PC, and if neccessary I'll live that way again. Life goes on.
Re:Computers are essential? (Score:2)
I lived years without having a PC, and if neccessary I'll live that way again. Life goes on.
Sure. Without a paycheck.
Not Free Yet (Score:5, Insightful)
I watch him with Leo LaPorte on the screensavers and feel ill-at-ease. I'm not sure why -- Kevin seems like a nice guy -- but I remember he mentioned going to Hooters during the segment, and suddenly everything seemed clear -- in sort of a sordid way. Leo sorted laughed about it, and Kevin laughed, too, but it was a weird, disturbing laugh.
But I was under the impression that Kevin had to steer clear of computers -- as in giving himself lots of physical space -- so I wondered why he was even on the set of the Screensavers.
But I like the way Mitnick talks about 'social engineering.' It's interesting, and anyone who has such skills -- and is able to hone such skills -- is really more of a risk than any hardware or software breach will ever be.
Still, it's good to see Mitnick out and about. His case seems somewhat absurd in light of the so-called 'dangers' today. He was probably lucky -- very lucky -- that his shit went down long before all this 'axis of evil' crap.
Re:Not Free Yet (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not Free Yet (Score:3, Interesting)
Well even more so that the (American) government can call you a terrorist if you do hack-or-crack. We know how the politicians always mess though two words up. AND if you are called a terrorist you will be immediately removed into a military prison and loose all of your rights, even if you are an American Citizen. Yes I am parranoid-specialy when all the government has to do is declare you a terrorist and lock you up with out a lawyer (well better with out than with I guess).
Social Engineering (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not Free Yet (Score:3, Interesting)
His girlfriend, former TSS staff member Darci Wood, has noted in the blog that she has brought a cable modem into the house. He is not allowed to use it, but she may use it to get whatever information he wants, and then give it to him.
Re:Not Free Yet (Score:2)
There is a profession based on these finely honed skills. As the shiny black satin business card from one of these people informed me, it's called "Special Situations Analyst".
Needless to say, I did not buy a car from him.
Re:Not Free Yet (Score:3, Insightful)
Kevin Mitnick was just the thing to fear. The news ran multiple stories about this supposed "Uber-Hacker" who could get into any computer system and blah-blah-blah. This, he was not, is not, nor will ever be. His greatest achievement was avoiding prosecution long enough for the myth to grow. BTW, if he had been around these days, he would have been caught in a month, and he'd be just like this guy [theregister.co.uk].
His true skills were that of a con man. His true genius was conning people out of something that they attached no value to. In 1993, most people outside of IT saw the harm in using weak passwords, or giving out those passwords to anybody who called. It's all well and good to be a safe cracker, but you need to finesse the Security guard to get in the building to get at the safe. In Mitnick's world, you could talk people into giving you the combo to the safe, and knowing the Telco system got you "to the safe". So in many ways, Kevin wasn't even a safe cracker. He just knew how to talk people out of the combinations.
Read more about Kevin Mitnick, aside from Phone Phreaking, when did he ever hack anything?? When did he brute force his way into someone's e-mail?? Aside from some basic dictionary attacks (not really cr\hacking) the record shows that he was good with Cell Phones, Telco Switches, that kind of thing.
Kevin Mitnick served as a poster child for those who wanted to crack down on computer crime. His myth will probably grow however.... So, if you're at issue with Kevin's love of Hooters, you need to rethink how you determine your deities.
I don't mean to dis anybody, and Mitnick is still the King of Phone Phreaks in my book (sorry Crunch), but he wasn't looking for unchecked buffers and exploiting the stack. Many of the times he did actually cr\hack a Unix box, he didn't clean log files... Cleaning log files is just plain professional people. Saying "Ha, Ha, they'll never know..." is just Hubris.
BTW, what is Kevin doing these days.... Oh, yeah, security consultant. Hmmm... does this mean we should hire coke dealers to be DEA agents??
~Hammy
Re:Not Free Yet (Score:3)
Unfortunately his response was posted AC and hasn't gotten mod'd up. (At least, I assume that's his response -- something about selling lingerie to librarians and geeks salivating. I'm not kidding.)
Anyway, I think I know what he -- the original poster -- is talking about. When geek talk gets around to Hooters, everything is A-OK. But everything also loses much of its mystique. Hooters sorta devalues the whole Mitnick thing, and it's not something I particularly want to listen to when I'm watching the screensavers. Although I have no problem with Hooters. The sandwiches there are actually pretty good.
Free Kevin (Score:5, Funny)
'Ol Kevin (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:'Ol Kevin (Score:2)
Re:'Ol Kevin (Score:2)
Re:'Ol Kevin (Score:3, Insightful)
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."-Ghandi
Lemme guess, you've never done anything illegal in your entire life?
The world is not black and white. So you would kill murderers? Well, how much evidence do you need to decide to kill someone? Death isn't exactly a revocable punishment, now is it? If the judge makes a wrong decision and sentances an innocent man to death does he get killed too? There are tons of other questions like this that illustrate why "an eye for an eye" doesn't work.
You're also showing your lack of understaning of people in general. Crazy punishments wouldn't do as much as you think to deter criminals. Criminals aren't exactly the most clever, forward-thinking individuals around. That's why they're criminals. If the really thought about their future they'd realize that committing serious crimes is not a good idea, even with our current punishments.
Social Eng 101: How to get Access. (Score:4, Insightful)
He has pulled the biggest con of them all, now they HIRE HIM to do the security.....
Bravo, this guy is a work of art.
Not So Free (Score:4, Informative)
Mitnick was freed in January 2000. The terms of his probation, which expire January 20, require he get government permission before using computers, software, modems or any devices that connect to the Internet. His travel and employment also are limited.
Also:
Christopher Painter, deputy chief of the Justice Department's computer crime section and the former assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted Mitnick, said that once the former hacker's probation is over, he won't be subject to any special surveillance.
"Not any more than anyone else would," Painter said. He added that "if there's any indication that anyone is engaged in illegal conduct, we're going to look into that."
So, it's not all reset-button and blue skies against Da Man. Until Mitnick gets a full-blown Presidential pardon, he's going to remain a marked man.
Re:Not So Free (Score:2)
Read those quotes again. They say that he will no longer have to get permission because his probation will expire, and that they're not going to watch him any more then they're going to watch you.
Re:Not So Free (Score:2)
Re:Not So Free (Score:2)
Right, so he should be relieved that his civil liberties will be respected by John Ashcrofts REGIME just like yours are. Remember the Army bioterrorism expert that is currently subject to no 'unusual' surveillance...
So, it's not all reset-button and blue skies against Da Man. Until Mitnick gets a full-blown Presidential pardon, he's going to remain a marked man.
Regardless of what you do, having the current president speak your name can't be good.
Free Kevin.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Free Kevin.... (Score:4, Funny)
Note that you benefitted from prosecutorial discretion. Mitnick did not, I think largely because he was such as asshole and ticked off the wrong people. If you'd had his kind of publicity you'd probably still be breaking rocks in Georgia.
The (apocryphal) tale I remember was of a woman who was zipping through Georgia late at 90 MPH to be stopped by a classic Cool Hand Luke trooper with an attitude. He drawled, "Lady, no one drives that fast in Georgia." She quipped, "Sherman did." And spent the night in jail.
Ouch.
More interesting (Score:2)
Re:More interesting (Score:3, Funny)
I have one if you would like to see it, send me a credit card number. email me [mailto]
I don't get the whole Mitnick thing (Score:3, Insightful)
If there is one thing at all notable about the whole thing, it's the ridiculous overreaction of the court during the sentencing.
Kevin's $19,000 amateur radio license... (Score:3, Interesting)
"In totality, defending himself in the FCC case, cost Mitnick approximately $19,000, making his license the most expensive one in America. He is currently selling items on eBay to recover the costs incurred in this action. He is also still accepting donations to his FCC defense fund [freekevin.com]."
Free Kevin first.. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's amazing how much sympathy has poured out for a guy who stole people's credit card numbers...
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:2)
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:2)
He just stole them to see if he could do it.
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:2)
So what - if I broke into your house just to see if I could, would you mind?
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:2)
I still have little sympathy because that is part of the game he played and now he has seen "whether he could do it. The answer was "until I got caught." He was "testing the system" but aside from the intitial security that system is also includes a little "social engineering" of it's own - laws, police, courts, prisons. Kevin Mitnick is JUST NOW completing his "test of the system". I would imagine his curiosity is sated.
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe you're referring to these [google.com] credit card numbers. Note that all three of those links indicates that Mitnick was not alone in obtaining those numbers.
If you watch Freedom Downtime [freedomdowntime.com] (buy it there or search the web..you're encouraged to share this one) you'll see the creator of DefCon (I believe that's the con..) saying how that file was traded like "bubble gum" and that "everybody had that file
Mostly, the sympathy is for being accused of things he did not do.
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:2)
I wonder how you Mitnick defenders would feel if one of those credit card numbers he stole, were yours?
Oooooh I can see it now.
He's like Bonnie and Clyde except his weapon is a keyboard and not a gun. Went on the run from the law. Sheesh. What does he have to do to get some disrespect? Bludgeon a baby penguin?
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:4, Informative)
And of course the claims from Sun, Novell, etc that he did tens of millions of dollars of damage (which is why he became such a sensation) were never held up in court. During the actual "trial" no company could produce anything but cursory evidence to the damage he did. As for the credit card fraud. Err. I mean file he had this same file was in the possession of any decent hacker at the time (kinda like being a *nix geek and NOT hanging out at
This was not an eye for an eye but an eye for the whole freaking body.
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:2)
Still, the punishment did not fit the crime.
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:2)
Kevin did some illegal hacking, but the worst thing he did was get caught. His ability to do damage to the world was magnified by a incredible (yeah, exactly, nothing he said was credible) New York Times writer and prosecutors looking for somebody to make an example of. It's hard to prove that you're not able to do something... besides, in this country we punish for what you do, not what you were capable of doing but didn't do.
Hiding behind the law is the worst kind of security. Information that you don't want released should not be available for a hacker to get to, and it's up to you to take enough security precautions to make sure that's the case.
If you leave a $100 bill on the passenger seat of your unlocked car at the mall, there's a slight chance that everyone who passes the car is honest and it will still be there when you get back. If it's taken, you will have been robbed. However, unless you're lucky and there's a solid eyewitness or other giveaway clue, the police will take your report and then toss it in the "cold case" file where it likely will never be heard from again.
Why do the people who run computer systems expect that the online version of the same crime is going to get more priority?
Re:Free Kevin first.. (Score:3, Informative)
Irony (Score:4, Funny)
hehe
Free Kevin - with every purchase? (Score:2, Interesting)
The media, for all intents and purposes, keeps the legal system fair. If you are being unjustly accused, there are many American organizations who will work to get the word out about your case, and in these cases justice pretty much always prevails. Look at the Dimitry case; ridiculous charges are leveled at him, Slashdot posts a story about it every two weeks, and in the end he gets off. Now look at Mumia Abu-Jamal; tens of thousands of ill-informed teenagers go around spouting off nonsense about how he's innocent, a search on Google reveals numerous web sites dedicated to his cause, yet almost 20 years after his first conviction, he still sits on death row, and my impression is that that is where he belongs. I've read all the pro-Mumia web sites and I've read a lot of anti-Mumia literature as well. I just don't see any evidence myself that he's innocent.
But back to Kevin. My biggest concern right now is that he learn from his mistakes and his time in prison so that he can find a way to use his obviously great talents for positive things. Look at Kevin Poulsen, one of the more famous hackers of the early 80's. He got caught, plead guilty, served a short prison sentence, and now does great computer security research for Securityfocus.com, among others. I have respect for him. I don't have much for Mitnick.
Re:Free Kevin - with every purchase? (Score:3, Insightful)
He didn't skip bail. He left on the last day of his probation, which he was allowed to do. Turns out that LE wanted to see him for some reason on that day. Once he heard about that, he went into hiding. He was prosecuted for crimes committed while on the run. He was never even charged with skipping out on anything.
Why? I'm sorry, but I don't buy anyone's excuses about how there was no way he could get a fair trial under our corrupt, draconian legal system.
Hmm... and you think the fact that the Judge, who doesn't even try to hide her personal dislike for him, and that denied him his Constitutionally-guaranteed right to a bail hearing, was any cause for concern? You'd feel comfortable being tried by a judge who was willing to publically break the rules to screw you? The dollar amount for damages that the FBI had made up carried a maximum potential sentence of around 80 years.
The media, for all intents and purposes, keeps the legal system fair.
The same media system that created the lies about Mitnick that folks like yourself believe, and keep getting perpetuated? The media system that made front-page news out of Kevin, so that LE felt they had little choice but to make an example of him?
If you are being unjustly accused, there are many American organizations who will work to get the word out about your case,
The EFF didn't want to help, the ACLU didn't want to help.
Look at the Dimitry case; ridiculous charges are leveled at him, Slashdot posts a story about it every two weeks, and in the end he gets off
Yeah, he was innocent, and he got to spend months in jail, and had to stay here even after he was released. Worked out great for him.
Look at Kevin Poulsen, one of the more famous hackers of the early 80's. He got caught, plead guilty, served a short prison sentence,
Yeah, him they tried to hang a treason charge on, and he could have faced the death penalty.
Clearly, our justice system is working just fine, and these guys don't need our help.
Kevin Mitnick got exactly what he deserved. (Score:3, Insightful)
>
>
Kevin Mitnick was a theif and a fool. He wouldn't have given a shit about any of his "supporters" if positions were reversed and it really amazes me to see that there are still some morons who haven't copped onto this fact.
FuckKevin.com (Score:2, Insightful)
Yah, I know the argument -- guys like him show us the holes, blah blah blah---how about showing us by fixing them or starting your own consulting company.
Crackers are nothing more than talented people with out enough imagination to create something useful.
Re:FuckKevin.com (Score:4, Insightful)
The moral of the story: Don't leave holes in your security. Be prepared for anything, including the imposters on the phone who claim to the be the CEO. Yeah, it means the insulting hassle of having to authenticate the CEO's identity every time he calls, but if you don't you're talking a risk.
Poor Kevin... (Score:2, Troll)
Got to meet him in person. (Score:4, Interesting)
Very personable, helpful, nice guy. No, he did not talik me out of any cc#s or pws, hehe... well... I don't think he did...
I spotted him walking through the food court and said "Hey, there's Kevin", he circled around a few times, guess he did not hear me calling his name, and he sat down and stayed for the meeting. As would happen, it was the smallest meeting in years, only 3 of us were there before Kevin got there and I don't think the count got above 15 all night. Go figure.
Several of us got him to sign blank CD-Rs (he wrote "this is not my data" under his signature. He also gave away copies of his book (free as in bird
I got signed disks for my son and me, then many of us went to his book signing at Microcenter the next day. He drew a pretty large crowd there too. Bought 2 copies of his book, one for me one for my son and added the signed stuff to my son's Christmas stuff.
A few years back I helped out with the "June 4th, Free Kevin" demonstration in front of the US Supreme Court, was glad to finally meet him in person.
Kevin on NPR (Score:2)
WOPR? David Lightman. (Score:5, Interesting)
I was all of 14. I could pass myself off as a bell employee, had a valid ID. I was able to get a list of celeb phone numbers and harass them in a 14 year old manner.
These are all true.
1. Yoko Ono- Asked her to send me nekkid pics so I could start a bulemics club using her photo instead of stinking fingers down our throats.
2.Don King - Called him and home and asked who did his hair cause I wanted a similar doo.
3. Joan Rivers, just to tell her she was a hag.
Busted into teleconferencing systems, wreaked havoc with corporate PBX's.
I did all of this stuff with a group of friends, we social engineered, brute force attacks, all done from a hodge podge of Apple
We had a great knowledge base of other hackers plus bell lineman headsets, phone company gear.
In short we had a lotta fun and did a lotta damage to companies. 250k in phone charges to MCI alone, and the only reason we got caught was because an early 80's version of a script kiddie turned us in.
Fortunately most companies were amused, we showed them our exploits, they made us promise not to tell, and cut deals the FCC and with our parents not too let us touch comps for 5 years. No court, no fines, nothing. A little tiny slap on the wrist.
And I was very angry then. Now I fondly look back on that time with a grin(as do my parents NOW) and thank god my parents did not have to shell out 250k for the hacked codes, or for the 500 floppies of pirated software, or my ten meg drive fulla of bomb plans, software, and general mayhem.
Point is that we can do a lot of damage with our curiosity. Mitnick had others peoples code, compromised systems, and got busted. You do something illegal, and especially in an industry with closely guarded secrets you are going to get burned, and deserve punishment. It could be corporate espionage or selling out to a foreign power.
AS for the security not being good. If I walk into the 7/11 and Apu is in the bathroom and I know I can walk over and steal a bag of funions and a Big Gulp without paying, does it make it right? If I know I can bust into a system and take whats not my mine? Does the crime justify my curiosity?
If I get caught speeding can I tell the cop that I was just seeing how fast she goes, just this one time?
He knew he was wrong, and looking at his crimes, he messed with some big players, and felt the heat. Albeit some of it might have been unecessary, but a message was sent.
As for Kevin, he just built on a culmination of tools and tips that others had been sitting on for years and using. I do not see any shining brilliance, just a very intelligent guy who used availible tools. Like Linux and UNIX tools. Making use of availible resources.
Social engineering is a tool employed by charming people and sociopaths. I, unfortunately, know it is one of my great skills, but rarely trot it out anymore.
We all wanted to be David Lightman and see Protovisions latest games. And Lightman got bit in the ass wy a WOPR(always wanted to say that)
And in the old days the spirit of hacking was fun. We did get into systems, the phone company, build blue boxes(and the other ones) stole payphones and hooked them up at home, hacked the blue special box at kmart to turn it on by remote(best hack ever). And in the day we policed ourselves.
Puto
Hmm.. (Score:2, Interesting)
SPAM (Score:2, Funny)
Log onto the Internet? (Score:2)
>telnet internet
MOTD follows:
Welcome the to the Internet!
All activity is logged
LOGIN:
Username:
Not on KFI anymore (Score:2)
Now KFI is the usual lame ultra conservative crapola, and the computer comedian Jeff Levy. Levy is hilarious to anyone who knows anything about computers. Poor saps who don't know less than Levy call in for help. They are mainly told to reboot, reinstall, and buy my sponsors utilities. Perfect exmaple of the blind leading the blind.
Three YEARS of Spam!! (Score:2, Funny)
How much email do you think your accounts would collect in THREE YEARS?!
-Trillian
yes, well (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd have bought bumperstickers and picketed for Skylarov (if I felt it would accomplish anything), but not for Mitnick. The fact that Mitnick was abused by the legal system after being caught does not change the fact that, to my mind, he was a real criminal, and Skylarov was not. That's based on my own moral and ethical sense, of course, and I am no lawyer, but it's something I feel strongly about.
I disagree. Kevin broke the law (Score:4, Informative)
Jon Johnson and elmsoft did nothing but *read some files that were originally encrypted on their own systems!
The DMCA is absurd and I do not like comparing the 2 arrests. If we support anyone who hacks then no one will take us seriously when an injustice occurs like the case with Jon Johnson and Elmsoft.
The difference between the cases are night and day and the doj actually had a legitmate case with Kevin.
Re:It was said... (Score:2)
His Girlfriends Blog ... (Score:2, Informative)
rtnz
Re:now the question is (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:now the question is (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting Perspective (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Interesting Perspective (Score:3, Informative)
but not allowed to touch a computer or log onto the Internet until January 20, 2003.
This is wrong. He's been able to use computers for quite a while now, he was just banned from the internet. So, in theory, he's been able to use MDK and XP, which you can purchase at a store. (Why anyone would use MDK when Slackware exists is beyond me). Jokes aside, if I remember correctly, I read somewhere that he was heavy into Solaris when he got busted.
MOD PARENT DOWN -1 Overrated (Score:2)
Well... evidence rules (Score:2)
As for keeping his hands off computers, it was an odd condition, but bear in mind this was his second conviction -- he wasn't learning.
Re:Question (Score:2)
He can't be interviewed on Slashdot. Simply because there's no face-to-face interviews on Slashdot, instead, there' s only digital interviews and chatrooms.
bummer. :o)
(plz, no offenses)