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Adobe Finds No Elcomsoft-Cracked E-Books 318

dJCL writes "I noticed at BlackMask.com that the Adobe investigators have found not a single e-book that was decrypted by Elcomsoft's Advanced e-Book Processor, even despite the months of intensive searching of around 100,000 pirated e-books that they could find(i.e. something else was used to crack them). Just love how the laws have been able to stop people from pirating things these days."
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Adobe Finds No Elcomsoft-Cracked E-Books

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  • ...that the warez community isn't as dumb as the corporations always assume they are.
    • by NixterAg ( 198468 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:28PM (#4835776)
      You got it wrong. Instead, it just proves that corporations are as dumb as warez communities think they are.
    • by DaRiachu ( 265559 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @12:08AM (#4835902) Homepage Journal
      The fact is, is that I believe the corporations assess the possibility for theoretical damages (Decreased revenue for an archaic archival system is hardly damages in my mind) before the threat of theoretical damages even comes. Then they get all pissy and sue someone. And of course, they lead out the propaganda "Don't Steal Books!" and we end up stealing more of them.

      Anyways, yeah. Wasn't this ebook software the Skylarov made only able to be used on ebooks that one already owned to port it to a different format? (such as a palm ebook or others?) That's my understanding. And if it's true, what are the damages then?!?! That's fair use! WTF!

      Okay. I'm preaching to the choir here. Nevermind.

      Oh, and if Adobe sues over peanuts like ebooks, then they need to get to the people that pirate things like Photoshop and Illustrator and Pagemaker and Premiere (which are a helluvalot more likely to be pirated than stupid ebooks, c'mon!) :D
      • by Z0mb1eman ( 629653 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @01:11AM (#4836125) Homepage
        I doubt Adobe is concerned about the actual pirated e-books. They're not protecting "peanuts" like e-books versus the more expensive Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. They're protecting the validity and usefulness of their ebook technology - I am not very familiar with it, but it stands to reason that if it becomes extremely easy to circumvent, publishers won't even think about using it to "securely" distribute e-texts, Adobe won't get paid, and they'll basically be left with a technology they spent a lot of money on that no one wants to use.

        That is very different from Adobe worrying about some 14-year-old downloading the latest Photoshop. They're probably smart enough to realize that they're generally not losing sales revenue through that, they are, if anything, gaining market share by having a growing self-trained user base (which in turn leads to businesses hiring the 14-year-old a few years down the road and buying another legit license).
        • Except that.. (Score:5, Informative)

          by GroundBounce ( 20126 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @02:21AM (#4836355)
          Many if not most of the pirated copies of Photoshop that I've seen are *not* in the hands of 14-year-olds. They were in the hands of full-grown adults who simply didn't want to pay the $600 (or whatever) for the program.
        • Re:It just proves... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by g4dget ( 579145 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @07:10AM (#4837067)
          They're protecting the validity and usefulness of their ebook technology

          With 100000 pirated ebooks, I think it's already been proven that their "ebook technology" doesn't work.

          In fact, calling something as kludgy and retrofitted as PDF with its bogus "encryption" a "technology" seems like giving it too much credit.

      • Re:It just proves... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by sasami ( 158671 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @01:50AM (#4836222)
        That's fair use! WTF!

        Of course it is. That ain't the problem.

        Did you know that the DMCA explicitly guarantees our right to fair use? It really does!

        And then, in the same breath, it conveniently criminalizes any and all means of exercising that right. The tool is forbidden; the action itself remains completely legal.

        It's a lot like passing a law that affirms the principle of universal suffrage and then goes on to declare that all polling stations must be in men's bathrooms.

        ---
        Dum de dum.
      • by isorox ( 205688 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @02:18AM (#4836342) Homepage Journal
        And if it's true, what are the damages then?!?! That's fair use! WTF!

        Maybe not in the U.S. (DMCA), however in [Soviet ;)] Russia, fair use and freedom still exist.

        Heh, it'd be funny if this post slipped through a time warp back to 1985...
    • not only that but it proves YET again that the suits do not pay attention to the brains they hire who all along have been saying "it's not the only way to steal the E-books!"

      they would rather listen to the lawyers who know absolutely nothing about it......

      anyone else find that funny? when a large corperation wants advice on technology instead of asking experts they ask lawyers... the one group of people that are 100% useless in such matters...

      asking lawyers about technology advice is like asking the janitors about corperate legal positioning..

      I find it even more amusing... and just wait people.. this rampant stupidity in the board rooms of american (yes canada is an AMERCIAN country... get over it! or move from the AMERICAN continent) companies is going to continue the economic depression longer or futher....
  • Is that legal? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:20PM (#4835739)
    For them to be downloading ebooks they don't own?
    • Re:Is that legal? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by -strix- ( 154910 )
      but they're Adobe they can do anything they want. Or so the story goes.

      -Hey everyone look it's clippy...Die you metal bastard!

    • Re:Is that legal? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by coryboehne ( 244614 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:26PM (#4835765)
      Is that legal?
      For them to be downloading ebooks they don't own?


      Disclaimer:IANAL

      Actually I don't think that would be legal at all... As a matter of a fact I really hope that they posted a list of the books they downloaded and someone gets pissed that Adobe stole a copy of their book, resulting in a law suit against Adobe for piracy.... Ahh the sweet justice that would be....
      • Re:Is that legal? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by ramzak2k ( 596734 )
        Actually I don't think that would be legal at all

        Not if Adobe took their permission. How hard would that be ?

        Adobe to a publishing company : "We are trying to investigate a potential fraud and loss for your company due to a group involved in breaking your ebook's protection code. Can we have your permission to..."
    • Indeed... (Score:5, Funny)

      by RyanFenton ( 230700 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:41PM (#4835831)
      Especially if their excuses were:

      We just needed it for research! It's just for personal use! We have a right to privacy with our own files! We deleted it within 24 hours - so it's legal! It didn't hurt anyone - we weren't going to be buying the book anyway! Mentioning them in our lawsuit is like free advertising! Potentially infringing material wants to be free! ;^)

      Ryan Fenton
      • Kudos. I gotta remember to come to you when I need some sarcatic irony for something. :) (Er, but will people get it? I guess the last line is a giveaway.)
    • Soon it will be (Score:4, Informative)

      by stud9920 ( 236753 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @03:40AM (#4836622)
      Soon it will be legal : under the P2P Prevention Act or whatever it is called, media pimps, be it RIAA, MPAA or others, have the right to DOS attack P2P network. Downloading 100,000 files from a P2P network IS a DOS attack, you obviously aren't going to read them all.
  • In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ottffssent ( 18387 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:20PM (#4835740)
    "Movie and recording studios, among others, say the law is necessary to stop pirating of intellectual property, which is made easy when the material is in digital format."

    Unlike a VCR, which is a bitch to use.
    • by papasui ( 567265 )
      That is funny but seriously a VCR records analog which is legal to use for time shifting/sharing purposes. Digital copies are currently illegal.
      • Re:In other news... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Mnemia ( 218659 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:58PM (#4835873)
        Does that mean it's legal for me to copy for "sharing purposes" with my friends from a DVD as long as I pass it through an analog format before reconverting it to digital? If the only distinction is the fact that it's digital I think the law has no ground to stand on.
      • Papasul writes
        That is funny but seriously a VCR records analog which is legal to use for time shifting/sharing purposes. Digital copies are currently illegal.

        Please cite this law. Because right now, I don't believe Tivos are illegal, and they time shift by recording a digital copy. Backup copies of CD's aren't illegal, and those are digital copie as well.

      • There's absolutely no legal difference between digital and analog. Both can be (mis)used to violate copyright.

        The thing that bugs the copyright holders is that digital copies are immortal and copy without loss. They raised a ruckus over DAT, and wanted some sort of built-in copyproofing, like you could only make one copy or whatever. So this may be what you're thinking of -- they fear digital more.
      • by foxtrot ( 14140 )
        That is funny but seriously a VCR records analog which is legal to use

        Of course. If they wanted VCRs to be illegal, they'd've called it the Analog Millenium Copyright Act...

        -JDF
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:20PM (#4835741)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Bruce Chizen was reported as proclaiming "Doh!" at the top of his lungs. :D Actually, I thought Adobe dropped this case? (but as a criminal case, the US picked it up and ran with it).
    • by jasonditz ( 597385 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:52PM (#4835855) Homepage
      It is a criminal case, and Adobe is a alleged victim.

      http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/021203/crime_dmca_2.html

      "In testimony, Thomas Diaz, a senior Adobe engineer, said under cross-examination from Burton that ElcomSoft was not the only company to create software that allows people to circumvent security measures of Adobe software.

      Apple Computer Inc.'s (NasdaqNM:AAPL - News) latest operating system, OS X, also disables some of Adobe's copyright prevention functions, he said."


      So maybe Apple is next?
  • wait.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by pctainto ( 325762 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:20PM (#4835743) Homepage
    There are laws that try to stop pirating?

    • There are laws that try to stop pirating?

      Not from what I've seen. There are just laws that try to make things more difficult for law-abiding citizens.

      Piracy has not be slowed down. The only thing that has been slowed down is the productivity of those who choose not to pirate. In many cases - using a crack version of a piece of software (or ripped CD) is less of a hassle.
  • by 3141 ( 468289 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:23PM (#4835753) Homepage
    Have I misunderstood something, or is Adobe admitting to downloading 100,000 ebooks?

    They are not the police, and do not have the right to break the law just to prove (or in this case disprove) their point.
  • The Spin: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Murdock037 ( 469526 ) <tristranthornNO@SPAMhotmail.com> on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:25PM (#4835764)
    They're going to say "See how effective the DMCA is?"

    Of course, had they found any of what they're looking for, the line would be "See how bad we need the DMCA?"
  • RIAA (Score:5, Funny)

    by jellybear ( 96058 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:26PM (#4835769)
    Not to give them any ideas, but if the RIAA were in a similar situation, they'd probably hire three kids for minimum wage to sit and pirate as much e-books as they could.
  • by czarneki ( 622927 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:30PM (#4835783)
    The DMCA only requires that the criminal defendant produced software aimed at circumventing copy protection. Using such software to actually circumventing copy protection is a separate offense (also under the DMCA). So the fact that they found no evidence of the software actually being used for piracy will not save the defendant from the offense of having produced the software in the first place
    • by sylvester ( 98418 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @12:17AM (#4835935) Homepage
      No, but it gives them the defence that the product has substantial non-infringing use. (Since the product has presumably sold, and thus presumably been used, and no infringing use has been discovered, we are lead (dragged?) to the conclusion that people must be using it for some *gasp* legitimate, fair-use purpose.

      -Rob
    • yes it is. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by twitter ( 104583 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @12:26AM (#4835979) Homepage Journal
      The DMCA only requires that the criminal defendant produced software aimed at circumventing copy protection.

      Not to lend weight or support to the perposterous DMCA but I thought the wording was "primary function." If it can be shown that the primary function of the software was simply to give the user their fair use rights to read their own material, how can it be called a circumvention device? In other words, if all it's circumventing is something not recognized by US laws, I don't see what leg they have to stand on. The fact that people did not use the software to violate the contents copyright by distributing the content looks very important, if and only if the DMCA is designed to prevent copyright violation. We all know that the DMCA's primary purpose is to expand the power of and preserve the position of obsolete publishers. Bah, what a stupid law DMCA is.

  • I wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Z0mb1eman ( 629653 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:30PM (#4835785) Homepage
    ...whether they took any action against any of the sites/people offering the 100,000 "pirated books".

    Seems to me that Adobe is merely trying to find a scapegoat, but chose an entirely wrong example to set.
    • You'd be amazed what you can do with "grep -v" and a few universities. For that matter, are they really that worried about 300-year-old Western Philosophy texts? If so, then I should be.

      IANAL, but aren't local-only copies ok?

  • Confusing paragraph (Score:2, Interesting)

    by RyanFenton ( 230700 )
    "Opponents claim the DMCA is being used to give copyright holders greater rights in cyberspace than they have in the real world, where people can legally copy videotapes for their personal use and record music."

    I'm nitpicking... but in that sentence, shouldn't "cyberspace" and "real world" should be reversed? I mean, complaints about the DMCA are that it limits copying and use of "cyberspace" digital media above and beyond "real world" analog copying and use. Normally I wouldn't complain - but this is Reuters, the source from where so many other news sources flow.

    Ryan Fenton
  • by Penguinoflight ( 517245 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:30PM (#4835787) Journal
    That it wasn't much to crack anyway. It's a very simple crypto scheme, and it doesn't work... why can't judges understand this?
    • by ThogScully ( 589935 ) <neilsd@neilschelly.com> on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:48PM (#4835849) Homepage

      The judges are supposed to apply the law is it stands to the case. IANAL, but if you're encryption scheme is simple zipping it up with a blank password, it's still illegal to try to bypass it without authorization to read the contents.

      I'm not saying I agree with the DMCA, but there's no distinction between difficulty of cracking involved here.
      -N

    • crypto scheme ...doesn't work... why can't judges understand this?

      Because they will have to put you in jail if you try to explain how to crack an ebook? Because they will have to jail themselves if they know? When you outlaw the truth, only outlaws can be honest.

    • by JohnDoe ( 8117 )
      Ok, so what you have to realize here is the that the lock on your door is not actually stopping anyone from coming into your house. It is a very ineffective way to secure your house. Yet you still do it day in and day out.

      You know why? It's because all you really have to do is take reasonable precautions to be covered by the law, otherwise break and entry would also be legal.

  • by djkitsch ( 576853 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:31PM (#4835790)
    What about the visual equivalent of plugging an analogue cable into the headphone socket - take screenshots of each page and then save as JPEGs? The only surefire way of preventing e-book piracy is to prevent people from reading the things in the first place.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Is it just geeks that don't like the DMCA?

    The reason I ask is it seems a like a silly law made by corporations for corporations and is only used for stupid things like this...

    So if it is a bad law that 99.99999% of the American population hates (100% if it weren't for the executives behind it), why does it exist? How can it exist?

    I've never understood how a "free" country can have laws like this, unless a lot of people agree with them.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Many people are ignorant or simply don't care until they see a direct effect on their own life. Add in the fact that a tiny minority actually makes the laws, and you get laws that sometimes don't make sense or that are unpopular. It is a price we pay for using a representative form of government.

      Of course, you still have the Supreme Court who are there to make sure the laws don't break the bigger laws (like freedom of speech). That can help balance things out.
    • by zogger ( 617870 )
      --interesting stat I heard on the radio the other day, might answer your last question. The US currently is running around 67 million laws/regulations/edicts/whatevers on the books. It's close to impossible for any one person to know all of them off the top of their head. I would imagine you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who *isn't* guilty of something.
    • The fact of the matter is that more Americans voted for the American Idol than voted in the 2002 election. Scary, but true.

    • by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @02:36AM (#4836407) Journal

      All depends whether or not you've been exposed to the Slashdot/EFF propaganda or the CBS/Disney propaganda. If you ask the average Joe if they think cracking tools should be illegal, they're probably going to tell you yes, they should. If you phrase it a little differently, and ask them if they should be allowed to listen to their CDs in their car, then they're going to answer differently.

      Now if you're an honest politician, you're going to try to make a law which makes cracking tools illegal but still allows people to listen to their music in any place at any time they want. But it's in that nitty gritty lawyer stuff that the corporations have the most power.

      Finally, look at it from the perspective of the average person. Most of us aren't selling or using software cracks, whether for legitimate or illegitimate purposes. And even those of us who only use cracks, and don't sell them, in reality there's about 0.000000% chance we're going to get caught.

  • WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by be-fan ( 61476 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:42PM (#4835833)
    So let me get this straight. I can go buy a gun, with little or no background checking, and have the potential to kill dozens of children, and it isn't illegal. Or, I could make a program that could theoretically be used to pirate some stupid ebooks, and that's illegal. Wow. That's such a fucked up set of priorities my head hurts. I'm going to go drown myself now...oh fuck! That's illegal too!
    • You must not live in the US. We have quite the background check system here. It even stopped a 54 year old man from getting a gun, because he was convicted of stealing 2 dollars worth of beer when he was 20. Not that he served time for that offense, either.
    • I can go buy a gun... and have the potential to kill dozens of chidren, and it isn't illegal.

      Yes, birdbrain, and you can also buy a car and have potential to kill dozens of children, buy a bottle of rat poison and have the potential to kill dozens of children, and buy a swimming pool and have the potential to kill dozens of children. You see, we are ALL "potential" murderers; morality/ethics and resposibility are what keep most people from committing crimes, not laws. Laws are there to punish/segregate those who behave immorally/unethically and/or irresponsibly. You cannot legislate good behavior; you can only punish bad behavior.

      And as far as the background check goes, we do have those in the US, and they are quite extensive.
      • Which is my point. Buying a gun isn't illegal (and shouldn't be, for reasons of freedom) just because it could potentially be used to commit a crime. The same should go for software!
    • In the past the U.S. government has classified crypto tools as arms. Could a defense against the DMCA be the second amendment? Could attempts by the FBI to mandate backdoors into crypto systems be an attack on the second amendment as well as the fourth?

      The second amendment does not apply solely to firearms. The second amendment is concerned with arms and the right of the citizenry to use them to defend their rights against oppressive and tyranical government. Encryption technology can be a useful arm to defend your rights against unconstitutional laws. Many people feel that the constitution does not authorize the federal government to impose a law such as the DMCA. Cracking tools, are thus arms, used by the people to defend their rights.

      Sounds like a bit of a stretch. Maybe, but nonetheless there are many important uses of crypto.

  • by core plexus ( 599119 ) on Saturday December 07, 2002 @11:55PM (#4835865) Homepage
    I read the story, and I didn't see any 100,000 figure. I also didn't read the method used to obtain this "100,000".
  • EBOOK FACTS (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 08, 2002 @12:01AM (#4835879)
    Without the crack:

    Braille readers cannot read the work. Since they are essentially fancy serial devices, you could fake a driver and have the work printed to a file if they did.

    Students, cannot cut and past a graph or text from them. They cannot resell the book when they are done with it, They cannot even give it a way. Why, because they tie themselves to one and only one computer.

    Three years from now when the the ebook is out of print and your computer dies, that is the end of the book.

    If you buy an ebook today, and your computer crashes or you buy a new one that is the end of the ebook unless you want to spend an hour on a phone trying to prove what happened.

    A few types of ebooks are more liberal today, but at the time this software was made most every ebook were locked down to an insane extreme.

    So there are several apparently legal uses for this software, some of which do not even involve the act of copying the work.

    Finally, I noticed the Prosecutor called the software burglar tools. Well last I checked even they are legal to make and sell. They are illegal to possess if you are not a lock smith. So even that analogy is flawed.
    • You give a lot of good reasons -- that people shouldn't buy e-books. Not reasons that they should break the law to get the terms they wanted in the first place.

      The analogy to burglar tools is off, as you note, but it's right in the sense of identifying the cracking tools as something with legitimate and illegitimate uses. It seems likely that they will be trying the Betamax defense, the key case for this sort of thing.
      • Re:EBOOK FACTS (Score:3, Insightful)

        by shaitand ( 626655 )
        The list he gave were things called "fair use" and they are the rights of every citizen by law a hell of alot older and more established than the DMCA.
        • Re:EBOOK FACTS (Score:3, Interesting)

          by MacAndrew ( 463832 )
          I agreed with his reasosn, but added that nothing in fair use here authorizes breaking the law. There is no priority given a "more established" (older?) law. Fair use is merely an exemption [cornell.edu] from copyright law.

          Stealing is not civil disobedience, and violates plain old copyright law anyway. If you don't like the product don't buy it, there is no more powerful message to a capitalist. I'm perplexed why some people justify not doing that -- nothing would send a clearer message to the companies or bring change faster.

          Again, his reasons are all good ones; I personally agree. I don't like the DMCA, and for that matter I don't like the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act. But there's no reason for breaking these selfish laws but selfishness, a desire to have the product and boycott it, too.

          Books are available in other and, IMHO, superior forms. Our local library has even started offering free online access to eBooks [arlington.va.us].

          I'm not trying to be contentious, just arguing for the moral high ground.
          • Re:EBOOK FACTS (Score:3, Insightful)

            by arkanes ( 521690 )
            It's not illegal to do any of the things he mentioned, DMCA or no. It's only illegal (pay attention, this is the important part) to provide anyone else with tools or information that will allow them to do so!

            There are provisions in the DMCA for "signifigant non-infringing use", but in the past that's never been recognized (IIRC, the 2600 people were barred from even bringing it as a defense)

            It's crafting law via the backdoor - kinda like the federal speed limit. There never was any such thing, because the fed doesn't have the authority to make one - but they can end run around that and use de facto authority (highway funding) to push one. Similiarly, they can't outright remove your fair use rights(well, I suppose they could, but it's alot harder politcally speaking), but they can and will attempt to prevent you from ever gaining the knowledge needed to exercise those rights.

            As for not buying it if you don't approve of the restrictions.. in more and more areas, especially entertainment, that just isn't working anymore. Your other options are limited, and, in some cases, simply don't exist. The media cartels are able to spin any boycott off as the effects of piracy (note the RIAA and CD sales), so your personal boycott has exactly the opposite effect of what you wanted - it's leverage for the company to push legislation.

            In this circumstance the only effective path is to demand your fair use rights from the companies providing you with content, using third party tools if neccesary. You aren't breaking the law here - you're defending your right to free access to information from people who would sell it to you.

            • Re:EBOOK FACTS (Score:3, Interesting)

              by MacAndrew ( 463832 )
              The thing is the DMCA did curtail "fair use," by the back door as you say. It was just a sacrifice the industry was willing to make. :)

              It's only illegal (pay attention, this is the important part) to provide anyone else with tools or information that will allow them to do so!

              I'm not so sure even self-help, which would work for few of us anyway, is permitted. The weird thing about the DMCA is that whereas it specifically disavows any curtailment of fair use, it also fails to provide adequate exceptions to the anti-circumvention measures. See this FAQ [chillingeffects.org]. It could be said this is a back door attack, or more likely sloppy legislative drafting. That's what I would argue to a court, and I'm sure has been, that Congress goofed and it's clear intent to preserve fair use should override its implicit repeal in the anti-circumvention section. That's a tough argument though, and would leave the court in the position of creating new language for the anti-circumvention checklist. They're going to leave that to Congress, I think, and anyway the courts should not be in the lawmaking business so broadly.

              Fair use is mostly not a constitutional question. The problems would come, IMHO, when it runs up against the First Amendment, and that would about to near evisceration of fair use, itself a mere statute.

              You are incorrrect there was no federal speed limit. There was, enforced via the Spending Clause. Yes, there is no Speeding Clause (who would have anticipated one, and it would have been thought a state matter anyway), but this exercise of power is valid. Believe me, a wide spectrum of laws are rooted in this power, it's nothing novel.

              More to the point, the federal gov't was up front about what it was doing. Yes, people debated endlessly whether this was appropriate policy. I imagine it was challenged constitutionally. Note that the rule was defeated politically.

              The rest is just policy. And the game's not over becuase (1) the courts have not finished deciding what all those clauses in the DMCA mean (e.g., "showing that the prohibition has a substantial adverse effect on noninfringing uses of a particular class of works") -- which in the 2600 case was kind of untenable, IMHO ... that's opinion!); (2) Congress is aware that people are upset by the incursion into fair use. Re the partricularly draconian CBPTPA (rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?) see here [eff.org].

              I'm not trying to contradict you in every way I can -- you are right in law and principle in general -- rather this is an area of law that interests me. From my inexpert opinion, the EFF has some good evenhanded orientation materials on the content, litigation, and public opinion fight of these different initiatives.

              Finally, boycott is possible and perhaps morally compelled. For example, a LOT of people are used to the idea of ripping their own music CD's, and will go WTF when they realize that's gone. Civil disobedience is a possible, too, but I think too many people are simply stealing for their own convenience. Those who commit civil disobedience must be prepared to go to jail for it. Is fair use a good enough reason for a felony conviction? Between CD and lobbying Congress, the latter is the better choice for me. I mean, this is so far about entertainment and only one form of it.

              Again, I'm not sure evn your own cracking is OK, and even if it is almost none of us will have access to the tools. I really wouldn't want to ask others to break the law and risk serious legal trouble to help me, even if they're willing. That's probably their civil disobedience choice to make, unless they're profiting, in which case they're mostly garden-variety criminals.

              The LoC survey deadline comes up in a few days, there's a place to start.
  • by Quaoar ( 614366 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @12:21AM (#4835951)
    The temperature at which eBooks melt.
  • Other means? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Sunday December 08, 2002 @12:23AM (#4835961) Homepage Journal

    If, as is suggested, other means of cracking these protected ebooks were used, will the authors of those programs be subject to arrest if they ever visit the US (assuming they are non-US residents)?

    Be afraid, be very afraid..
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Just wondering which P2P program that Adobe is using to download that many ebooks
  • by NathanBFH ( 558218 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @12:30AM (#4836001)
    As quoted from the Reuters article (my own emphasis added):

    "Adobe Systems has not been able to find proof that anyone made illegal copies of electronic books using software that could sidestep copyright safeguards in the company's eBook software, an Adobe engineer has testified. "

    There's a difference in not finding proof that Elcomsoft's software didn't crack the ebooks and not finding any ebooks that were cracked by it (as the Slashdot article suggests). Sorry to be picky, but the person that wrote the slashdot story was a little sensational in his wording, and I thought there was a big enough difference to mention that.

    I can understand how unbelievably hard it would be to find proof of cracking with Elcomsoft's software just by downloading cracked ebooks. I doubt Elcomsoft's software leaves any footprints in the decoded file, especially considering the extremely simplistic 'encryption' algorithm ;o)
  • by rusty0101 ( 565565 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @01:02AM (#4836095) Homepage Journal
    with the DMCA.

    Disclaimer: IANAL

    IIRC, either there is a Library of Congress decision [loc.gov] that there are a couple of situations where the Anti-Circumvention provision does not apply to software or hardware that circumvents copy portection.

    One of those situations is in with respect to a compiled list of URLs and controll information that web proxy filters may be using.

    The other situation I seem to recall reading some place was if the technology in use was obsolete or had known faults that prevent legitimate access.

    Out of my own curiosity, wouldn't the fact that there is a fault with the anti-circumvention software that causes it to fail to protect against new cirvumvention tools imply that the anti-circumvention, or encryption tool in question, was, well Obsolete?

    -Rusty
    • I don't think that is a defence:

      The anti-cirumvention software was working just fine at the time that the
      alleged offense was committed. It was only after it was cracked that it became
      (effectively) obsolete.

      That's like saying "But Officer - I didn't break into this house - the
      front door was wide open...right after I smashed the lock."

      Dimitiri's defense (IMHO) is twofold - firstly, he did all this in Russia
      where it isn't illegal - secondly that he did it to aid disabled people to
      read eBooks and not to help the pirating of eBooks.

      The whole "to help blind people" thing seems to me to be the linchpin here.
      If Adobe had picked some cracker who lived in the USA - and who had personally
      pirated a bunch of books using their own cracking tools - Adobe would have
      a much stronger case.
  • by fobbman ( 131816 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @01:05AM (#4836103) Homepage
    Here's [gutenberg.org] where they found all those pirated books.

    Boy, that Gutenberg character's gonna be in BIG trouble.

  • ...whether or not an e-book was cracked using the "Elcomsoft's Advanced e-Book Processor"?
  • a quandary (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cr@ckwhore ( 165454 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @01:44AM (#4836208) Homepage
    This is strange... on the surface, I'd like to think that this is bad news for Adobe... but something tells me that this is bad news for Elcomsoft because news is out that their product doesn't work.

    Although, does anybody actually steal e-books? I don't seem to recall "e-books" as a hot ticket item all the 1337 kiddiez want.
  • With 100,00 cracked ebooks out there (at least) is it any wonder that Adobe got over protective of their market?

    Adobe chose the wrong course of action, but would anyone really say that it's ok that there are so many pirated ebooks around?
  • by Newer Guy ( 520108 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @02:53AM (#4836460)
    And according to The USA post DMCA, you're guilty unless and until you can prove yourself innocent! The fact that something hasn't been used to break the law doesn't mean that it CAN'T be used in that way. So by doing a pre-emptive strike, the Govt. can make sure that it never will be used to break the law. Get it?
  • by stud9920 ( 236753 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @03:43AM (#4836634)
    It's too easy to hide you used Elcomsoft's software : you just install a pirated version of acrobat, open the pirated ebook, and then print it through the virtual printer provided by acrobat. And you've got the advantage of reducing the file size, by just choosing a lower output resolution.
  • by Otis_INF ( 130595 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @06:38AM (#4837025) Homepage
    I mean: there are not that much crypting settings available and 1 setting f.e. excludes multiple options in the reader.

    An example: I recently bought Thinking in C# (almost finished version), in e-book format (pdf) which the writers offered for 5$. That's a bargain, so I thought "lets give it a shot". I tried acrobat, but I soon found out that the e-book was not that handy: i.e.: the advantages an e-book has over a paper-version (searching, bookmarking for fast browsing, highlighting and deleting, unlimited notes on 1 page etc) were gone in the acrobat reader since the e-book as encrypted and printing was disabled, plus there was no bookmark browse tree included. Search did work however but I couldn't print a page, couldn't copy/paste a section of a page and I couldn't create bookmarks!. I found out that Adobe offered another tool, eBook reader. So I downloaded that tool, opened the book and what a suprise: search was disabled too but I could create bookmarks.

    So here I was: I paid for a legal ebook and there wasn't software to use it in full. I downloaded Jaws PDF Editor for windows. It's not a free program but the trial was enough. I loaded the ebook in the PDF editor and unlocked the encryption settings. By enabling printing, everything worked again in the eBook reader and now I can use the ebook I bought with all the features only available for electronic versions of a book.

    Not thanks to adobe however, who offered only rotten tools to use the book I bought. What's wrong with having a lot of options to secure a book but still allowing users to fully enjoy the benefits of an electronic version of a book?
  • Ironic (Score:3, Insightful)

    by theolein ( 316044 ) on Sunday December 08, 2002 @07:46AM (#4837136) Journal
    I know that I would never even consider buying an ebook for the simple reason that I can't print it out if I want to. I have never even seen ebooks on sale in any large numbers and the famed electronic book craze of a few years back (Microsoft, Adobe and another company all making proprietry standards) has completely dried up. I cannot find electronic book readers in most stores anymore and adobe's ebook reader has got to be one of the less popular downloads around today.

    Being a normal human being I believe that I own something when I buy it. Everything else I consider as rent. Strange laws might call it DMCA or licence but I consider it rent. Since a real book doesn't cost all that much more than most of these books, I reckon most people would go for the real paper version.

    Not only that but I fear that Orwell's 1984 and Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 are becoming more and more real all the time. When will the thought police come to my house to burn my books? Is there a difference between that and the taleban?

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