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Privacy Your Rights Online

Yahoo! Online Games Contain Spyware 48

Posted by timothy from the peek-a-boo dept.
An anonymous reader writes "I just noticed that yahoo.com is offering Civilization III for free, online. I figured it was too good to be true, so I actually read the EULA. Guess what, yahoo is now distributing spyware. The following is a cut and paste from their EULA: '5.Collection and Use of Registration and Usage Information. In connection with your use of the Applications on Demand Services, the installed software contains an application for the collection of data pertaining to your use of the Software and the operation of the Software. Furthermore, your Service Provider will collect data regarding what Applications you use, how long you use them and in which ways you use them (collectively, your "Usage Information"). You hereby give your consent to direct retrieval by Exent of the Usage Information collected by the Software and acknowledge that the Service Provider has agreed to provide the Usage Information gathered by it to Exent (without specifically identifying you). You agree that Exent may use your Usage Information by aggregating it with the Usage Information of other users of the Software to provide general statistics about the Applications on Demand Services as well as for purposes of making necessary adjustments and corrections in the Software as shall be deemed it by Exent at its sole discretion.'"
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Yahoo! Online Games Contain Spyware More

Yahoo! Online Games Contain Spyware

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  • ummm.... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    link to this please? Without it - this whole article is without merit.

  • Just remember.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Neck_of_the_Woods ( 305788 ) on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:02PM (#4442833) Journal

    Nothing is free, you pay one way or the other. From now on, just assume your getting the big five finger when you sign up for anything free. Your choice.

    • Except that you pay for this rental service, which is the real kicker. The problem is that CivIII isn't multiplayer *YET*, so it defeats the purpose of playing it online at Yahoo!, I would think.

  • Method to disable the spyware... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:03PM (#4442837)
    I found a good way to disable the spyware in these free programs.

    Go to a store and purchase the software.
    • Fair enough.

      Do you have a method of detecting spyware without reading through and interpreting acres of EULA?

    • I agree. I bought Civ 3 two days after it came out. It's a great game -- I still play it. I paid around $50 for it if I recall correctly.

      Why is it so evil of Yahoo to expect something in return for offering a $50 game for free? The last of the standing .coms are tripping over themselves to try to find innovative ways to stay afloat. To me, this is much more desirable than flogging visitors with yet another popunder.

  • No suprises (Score:5, Insightful)

    by infornogr ( 603568 ) on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:04PM (#4442844)
    If someone had asked me to guess whether or not Yahoo distributed spyware yesterday, I would say yes. It's pretty much expected that if any large company gives something away for free, its probably adware or spyware. Most people don't know they're getting spyware, worse, most people don't care, and worse yet, Yahoo knows this. The solution is simple: don't use software with such absurd EULAs.
    • I don't see what the big problem is that people have with spyware. Personally, I try to avoid it if possible, but if some company knows that I like to play the occasional game of Counter-Strike, and spend quite a bit of time working on PHP code, what of it? Is this knowledge they've gained going to cause me personal harm, or will it be spirited away into some vast database where it will be merged with millions of other user's statistics?

      I can understand how people don't like the information being collected without their explicit permission, but WHY do people refuse to give this permission? What are they afraid of?

      Regards, Guspaz.

  • Not 100% true? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Trusty Penfold ( 615679 ) <jon_edwards@spanners4us.com> on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:05PM (#4442850) Journal
    When I signed up for Civilisation III, section 5 of the agreement read
    5. PLAYER DOWNLOAD
    The Player software is made available to you subject to the terms and conditions made accessible during the software installation process. In order to download the Player software, you must have a Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000 or XP operating system, as well as a Pentium 233MHz computer or faster, 64MB of RAM, 500MB of hard drive space, Direct X and compatible SVGA video and sound cards. You agree that it is your responsibility to review and evaluate the Player and the related terms and conditions, and that all risk associated with the use of, or reliance on, the Player rests with you. You further agree that Yahoo!, including its suppliers, shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, in any way for any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of, or in connection with your use of, or reliance on, any such software, including the failure of such software to meet your needs, standards, expectations or desired specifications.
    and there wasn't a section entitled "Collection and Use of Registration and Usage Information".

    I expect that the presence/absence of the clause depends on how interesting you are.

    I am, presumably, very boring and Yahoo doesn't care to know what I do. You must be either interesting or suspicious since Yahoo decided that they want to track you.

  • firewall? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Khopesh ( 112447 ) on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:06PM (#4442854) Homepage Journal
    so what happens when people start blocking net access to these apps?
    programs like Tiny and Zone Alarm can block access per program
    (assuming they don't use bundled hooks like IE embedding).

    seems better than the software-installation clauses in newer MS and java licenses.
    • It will probably refuse to work without the connection. That will definitely be cracked though.
      • In order to use the software you (I'm guessing here) need to connect to their game server. Whilst negotiating a connection for your game, the spyware funnels up a load of information on your usage habits (you spend 10 hours a day looking at /., 2 hours playing Civilization). Thus the same port is used for both espionage and recreation and you can't block it without breaking the game.

        Just my 0.02
    • Zone Alarm can block access per program
      (assuming they don't use bundled hooks like IE embedding)

      IE is #1 on the list of programs I told Zone Alarm to deny access to the internet. Chuckle.

      -

  • Time for a law (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:14PM (#4442891)
    Requiring any software reporting back any data surreptitiously to have a separate click through granting permission. Also required should be periodic user reminders that the reporting back is happening.

    • And in typical legal fashion, that clickthru could be so convoluted in its wording as to be useless.

      Just make it long and wordy, and the typical user will never scroll all the way down to the part where it says "...and you grant permission for BigProvider to sell your name and life to anyone with a nickel..."

    • Why do we need a law? I used to play Yahoo Poker on occasion; now I most certainly will not. Yahoo makes it's money by the number of eyeballs they can sell to advertisers (among other things). They have two less eyeballs now. We live in a capitalistic society; let the economics, not the courts, decide.
    • Also required should be periodic user reminders that the reporting back is happening.

      Seen after playing a game:
      "Now updating our big evil database on which games you play, how long, how many Kid and Play movies you have rented from Suncoast video, and your shoe size........ Done."

  • Just how powerful can an EULA be? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by melquiades ( 314628 ) on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:33PM (#4442953) Homepage
    So does this mean that I could sell software to Yahoo! with an EULA that allows me to collect statistics on which applications they use, and for how long? On broader aspects of their business's internal functioning? What about an EULA that allows my software to trap keystrokes, gather passwords, and open backdoors on their servers?

    OK, so probably this Yahoo thing is blown out of proportion and context in typical Slashdot fashion. But imagine it's for real -- would an EULA like this stand if challenged? Why or why not?

    Calling all IANALs....
    • So does this mean that I could sell software to Yahoo! with an EULA that allows me to...

      Correction: You could try to sell Yahoo software with this EULA.

      The difference is Yahoo! has a Team! of! Lawyers! to read each one of these things, whereas Joe consume does not, nor does he have the time...

      Let's also face another depressing question here... does Joe consume care all that much? Especially if he can get Civ III for free?


      ---Lane

    • At least it is in the EULA (Score:4, Insightful)

      by TamMan2000 ( 578899 ) on Monday October 14, 2002 @07:04AM (#4444757) Journal
      Isn't anyone else glad they put it in the EULA instead of trying to sneak it through?

      That would really be spying, what they are doing now it more like buying your personal information with a game...

  • a Link (Score:5, Interesting)

    by liquidice5 ( 570814 ) on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:37PM (#4442965) Homepage
    I tried to provide everyone with a link
    but if Yahoo is providing this for free,
    I cannot seem to find a link to it,

    however, I did find this...

    http://games.yahoo.com/games/downloads/promo/promo _civ_nl.hf2k [yahoo.com]

    from there you have to click "sign up and play"
    now, then sign in with a yahoo ID,
    click "continue to rent game"
    just click "single game rental" for this
    then the last step before the EULA, in which there is nothing from the above quote

    which calls into the validity of the above story

    • Re:a Link (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Babbster ( 107076 ) <aaronbabb@@@gmail...com> on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:48PM (#4443017) Homepage
      Indeed. All I found was a program where you could get three days of Civ3 for $4.95. It seems like an attempt to provide rentals of video games without the fear of piracy that doing so in an offline privacy would engender, not to mention people who would simply rent the game and never return it.

      I would note also that, with such a rental system, collecting data about people's playing of the rented game could be considered a necessity since there would have to be a way to shut it off after it had been played. There would also have to be a way to activate the start of the three-day rental after the download completed, since I don't think Yahoo would be so stupidly evil as to mark the time it takes to download the game against the customer's rental time.

      In summary, the writer of the article is pretty dumb and the editor who posted it must be getting very sleepy. :)

      • Somebody needs to find the 'preview' button again: "offline privacy" should be "offline venue."

        As a side note, if you check out the site at Yahoo Games [yahoo.com], you'll find that actually (assuming that these are indeed full versions which seems to be the case), the "game packages" could actually be a good deal if you were on the fence about buying any of the games they have available. For example, they have a 10-game package at $14.95 that allows you to have unlimited play for a month of 10 games. That's a pretty good way to try before you buy, if you ask me...which you didn't...but I told you anyway.

  • Dear /. editors (Score:4, Funny)

    by Wrexen ( 151642 ) on Sunday October 13, 2002 @08:41PM (#4442976) Homepage
    YHBT
    YHL
    HAND
  • There's a good chance they're talking about gathering statistics about the game itself (the Application) and not just any piece of software.
  • ... But I think the disclaimer is saying that they are able (and may decide to) keep track of when you're using one of their web-based games.

    Personally, I'm paranoid enough that I just don't install any web "add-ins" at all, but I'd have assumed that what Yahoo! describes is pretty much a default.

    sigh... Anyone up for a quick round of "PRODIGY IS UPLOADING MY FILES!!!!!"?

  • Just another VMware VM. They might collect how much I play it, but if there's nothing else on the disk they won't get much valuable information.
  • It sounds to me like they are saying the software has a method of tracking its own errors, and if errors occur, it will beam the information to the mothership. Also, it says it will track your usage of the game (probably for online games) and use your information, "in aggregate" with everyone elses information. (Apparently for the specific purpose of fixing bugs with QFE releases--and possibly for marketing research.) Spyware? I guess my definition of spyware isn't as broad as everyone elses. If it's providing a function to make the application work better, great. If it got there to do stuff that they should have to tell me about (like finding my passwords, etc.) that's what I consider spyware. Cschrieb "The purpose of abstraction is not to be vague, but to create a new semantic level in which one can be absolutely precise." -- Edsger Dijkstra
  • 1. Don't play THEIR games.
    2. Use Linux.

    If you believe in privacy but fall for the spyware trap then you better go back to school and study a little harder.

    The ONLY secure computer is a disconnected, powered down, Tempest computer in a Faraday cage in a concrete bunker 100' underground. Anything else is a security risk.

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