Godzilla Getting Ready to Stomp Mozilla? 759
mrBlond writes: "Doing the rounds: Seems like Toho [jp], 'the owner of all rights in and to the trademark and service mark GODZILLA [jp]
and the GODZILLA characters,' is coming down on Davezilla for use of 'zilla' in his domain name and his dragon logo, to set a precedent before attacking Mozilla."
so what? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:so what? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:so what? (Score:5, Funny)
Or not. [stomptokyo.com]
I thought it was pronounced... (Score:2, Funny)
At least that's what they always said in the movies.
As reported on the register. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:As reported on the register. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:As reported on the register. (Score:5, Funny)
Hard to argue (Score:2)
It's hard to argue with this.. it does seem to be pretty blatant... hopefully they can come to an agreement...
Re:Hard to argue (Score:5, Insightful)
This would be roughly equivalent to the owners of the Chef Boyardee trademark claiming ownership of "Chef" when used in conjunction with any food product:P
Trademarks are NOT ownership of a word. It is ownership of a brand. Hence, I can call my product "Kleenex" if I'm selling candy. If I'm selling tissue, however, you can bet Kimberly-Clark would come knocking.
Re:Hard to argue (Score:2, Informative)
Fair use does not apply to trademarks only copyrights. Two very different worlds. The name and image of Godzilla make up the trademark. The image of Godzilla is a copyrighted image. Trademarks are handles by the USPTO while Copyrights are handled by the Libary of Congress.
Re:Hard to argue (Score:5, Informative)
'zilla' is a lot more like "Boyardee" than like "Chef". I certainly can't think of a lot of uses of it before Godzilla showed up.
Some marks are deemed "famous", such that they get to reserve the whole field. This may be a bad design, but it's how the laws are written.
Consider this: If I produce a candy called "Ford Bubblegum", no one is going to think it's a car, or that I'm doing it with a license from the car company.
On the other hand, if I sold kitchen aprons labeled "Boyardee", someone might figure that, while it's not soup, it was clearly trying to take advantage of their fame.
Here's the question: Would a typical user, confronted with a large dinosaur-like thing that walks on its back legs and has things down its back, and breathes fire, and has a name ending in "zilla", be likely to infer an association between that product and Godzilla?
Yes, the user would.
Thus, it's probably a violation.
IANAL, but for fuck's sake, people, *THINK*. This looks exactly like trying to take advantage of someone else's product name and reputation to make your own product look cooler; in this case, trying to take the "big unstoppable monster" aspect of Godzilla and apply it to a browser. It even shows the traditional fire-breathing thing in the splash screen!
Maybe right, however (Score:4, Interesting)
This tells me that Mozilla has become common enough in its own right as distinct from Godzilla. The most they could do would be to try to force a change of mascot, much as it would be funny to see them try to argue "Your honor, we submit that the user agent string in Internet Explorer is in violation of our trademark rights, and demand 1% of all Windows sales revenue."
Re:Hard to argue (Score:3, Interesting)
Ummm...You wish? Actually, I take it from your post that you don't wish - You're just misinformed. Trademark law does, and always has had, the concept of 'Fair Use'. I would refer you to the Lanham Act which covers the topic.
Further, it has been made clear in innumerable court cases in the US that anyone is free to use any trademark for any purpose, so long as the consumer would not normally be confused by the use. To wit, in Soeco, Inc v. Shell Oil Co: "[A]nyone is free to use the term in its primary, descriptive sense so long as such use does not lead to customer confusion as to the source of the goods or services."
Your "Boyardee" argument is valid, but I believe my original point is still valid, because Davezilla is not making movies (Or action figures, comic books, or otherwise trying to trade on the Godzilla character)
Re:Hard to argue (Score:3, Informative)
Your "Boyardee" argument is valid, but I believe
my original point is still valid, because
Davezilla is not making movies (Or action
figures, comic books, or otherwise trying to
trade on the Godzilla character)
And his dragon resembles the one on the Welsh flag
(http://www.data-wales.co.uk/flag.htm) far more than it does Godzilla.
Re:Hard to argue (Score:2)
do they claim to own that? if they are going after "zilla" words, you should be able to throw it out due to the fact that we know how rediculous it would be if they claimed the same on any sites / words containing GOD in them.
Re:Hard to argue (Score:3, Insightful)
Toho has no trademark on 'Zilla, because the use of that term for just about everything has become so common in the language that it no longer deserves trademark protection.
Just as Johnson & Johnson lost its grip on "Band-Aid" which is now a synonym for bandage.
The use of "'zillas" goes back many years and a trademark owner is required to agressively and proactively defend its trademark from dilution.
"'Zilla" is diluted, there's a pretty strong argument for that. And that defeats a trademark.
Re:Hard to argue (Score:5, Informative)
If you think so, just try marketing a bandage called "Band-Aid" - Johnson & Johnson's well-funded legal department would be on your ass directly. Similarly, Kimberly-Clark ain't gonna let you sell "Kleenex" facial tissues. Xerox won't let you market "Xerox" machines. The Thermos company will lay the legal hurt on you if you try to sell vacuum insulated bottles by that name.
The only former trademarks I can think of that have actually lost their protection are "Asprin" and "Heroin," which were both US trademarks belonging to Bayer AG until 1919 when the IP rights to these two "wonder drugs" were ceded in the Treaty of Versailles, NOT because they became generic terms. Aspirin became a generic term because the trademark was stripped, not the other way around.
-Isaac
Re:Hard to argue (Score:3, Insightful)
Isn't that what I said?
For the example to hold, "Band Aid" would have had to have been diluted such that it has entered the language:
1) Band Aid is a synonym for a self adhesive strip bandage.
2) Band Aid is an adjective meaning "A haphazard repair done quickly and temporary in nature"
3) Band Aid was a fund raising concert for starving people in africa.
That's pretty diluted. Just as 'Zilla has entered the language:
BugZilla
DiffZilla
MoZilla
Go!Zilla
TrafficZilla
and what was the phrase the judge in the Mattel v. Aqua/MCA/et.al. call Mattel?
Re:Hard to argue (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, they don't have a trademark on the use of a dinosaur. At best, they can keep you from using "Zilla" in conjunction with a dinosaur logo, but they surely should not be able to keep you from using one or the other alone.
Personally, I think they should just back the heck off and count all of this as free advertising. It's not like they are losing any money as a result of these types of uses. All they are getting with a lawsuit is negative publicity. If they must protect their trademark, then at least come to an agreement that allows interested parties permission to specialized use of the name and/or logo.
Text in case of /.ing (Score:5, Informative)
Goodbye little dragon guy!
[Blog] - Davezilla @ 07:07:43 pm
re: DAVEZILLA.COM
Dear Mr. Linabury:
We represent Toho Co., Ltd ("Toho") in intellectual property matters. Toho is the owner of all rights in and to the trademark and service mark GODZILLA and the GODZILLA characters. In addition, the name "GODZILLA" and the likeness of Toho's GODZILLA character are federally registered trademarks belonging to Toho. Copies of Toho's U.S. Registrations for GODZILLA and the GODZILLA character image are enclosed.
[Omitted long, dull paragraph about the history of Toho...]
It has come to our attention that you have incorporated the "ZILLA" portion of our client's GODZILLA marks in the name of your "DAVEZILLA.COM" domain name, and that you have included a "reptile-like" character as well as a "monster-like" character, which you refer to as "GODZILLA", on your website accesible through "DAVEZILLA.COM." Please be advised that your use of the GODZILLA mark constitutes a trademark infringement and confuses consumers and the public into believing that your "GODZILLA" character originates from Toho, which it does not. Moreover, your use of the "ZILLA" formative along with imagery associated with GODZILLA is likely to cause the users of your site to believe that the "DAVEZILLA.COM" website is either associated with, authorized by, or sponsored by our client, and demonstrates an attempt by you to trade on the goodwill built up by our client. As such, we request that you remove the objectionable imagery and reference to GODZILLA from your website to eliminate any likelihood of confusion and posibility of an inaccurate affiliation with Toho and GODZILLA.
We look forward to receiving your prompt reply, with a statement of your intentions, no later than August 16, 2002. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.
Very truly yours,
SEYFARTH SHAW
Jill A. Jacobs
Wow. Guess the little dragon at the top has to go bye-bye. At least they are letting me keep the domain name. A few inaccuracies: I have, until today, never mentioned Godzilla, nor do I have any imagery of him on this site. Nor do I refer to my logo as Godzilla. It's always been, "That little dragon guy." Could have been a lot worse. Expect a new no changes to the banner and changes a tweak to the colophon. I'm not giving in.
Original version (Score:4, Funny)
Goodbye little dragon guy!
[Blog] - Davezilla @ 07:07:43 pm
re: DAVEZILLA.COM
Dear Mr. Linabury:
What happen ? Someone set up us the trademark infringement ! Take off every 'zilla' ! You know what you doing.
For great justice,
SEYFARTH SHAW
Jill A. Jacobs
ALL YOUR FUNNY ARE BELONG TO THE MESOZOIC ERA! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Text in case of /.ing (Score:2)
Makes me want to run out and register "DRCALEBZILLA.COM". Perhaps if everyone registers a "ZILLA.COM" address we can do the reverse /. effect, and tie the lawyers up for years trying to track every one down.
The letter about the *other* half... (Score:4, Funny)
Dear Mr. Minister:
It has come to our attention that you have incorporated the "GOD" portion of our client's GODZILLA marks in the name of your "Church of God" church name, and that you have included an unstoppable all-powerful being, which you refer to as "GOD", on your publications. Please be advised that your use of the "GOD" formative along with imagery associated with GODZILLA is likely to cause the users of your site to believe that the "Church of God" website is either associated with, authorized by, or sponsored by our client, and demonstrates an attempt by you to trade on the goodwill built up by our client.
God (Score:5, Funny)
Re:God (Score:5, Funny)
Plus, I would assume that God would settle out of court. (Lightning rod anyone?)
Re:God (Score:2, Funny)
On the contrary, I hear that Toho is going after all religions that use the word "God", since "some of them have acted monstrously", and people might get confused.
Not sure if this matters (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not sure if this matters (Score:2)
Actually time advantage is to Mozilla... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Actually time advantage is to Mozilla... (Score:4, Insightful)
You know what that is? Stupid. It means its become more efficient and cheap to succumb to threats than to see issues through to their proper and (I can't stress this enough) correct conclusion. I have no feelings either which way in this case; what frusterates the FUCK out of me is that we'll likely never get to see who's right, in court.
Personally, I'm waiting for the laywer industry to reform its traditional garb and start dressing more like jocks and repo men.
Re: Actually time advantage is to Mozilla... (Score:3, Insightful)
AFAIK and IANAL, Toho is going to have to prove that *zilla is in the same "trade" as Godzilla.
Cheers,
Slak
Re: Actually time advantage is to Mozilla... (Score:3, Interesting)
Almost every graphical web browser... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Almost every graphical web browser... (Score:3, Funny)
Microsoft Lawyer: "Your honor, we've taken the liberty of creating Godzilla using advanced cloning and dna-manipulation technology. He's just as big, just as mean, and of course, breathes fire. We feel it only fair to alert the people of Japan he will be on his way over should this ridiculous trial proceed any further."
Toho Lawyer: "We must flee!"
Wowzilla. (Score:5, Funny)
zilla != Godzilla (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:zilla != Godzilla (Score:5, Informative)
There's been no activity on the bug for some time.
You definately have a good point about names, I don't think they have a foot to stand on when it comes to the name alone.
Joseph Elwell.
Re:zilla != Godzilla (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:zilla != Godzilla (Score:2)
Zany_vanilla.equals("zilla") (Score:2, Funny)
Zoo Gorilla
Zeus Pilla
Shortening of Priscilla
Z-Index Layers Lose All
ZILch LAtitude
Zero Internet Lan Lag Access
I like creative names, and if a product name happens to pay homage to a famous fire-breathing dinosaur, so be it. Besides, Mozilla sounds a lot cooler than Moceratops or Morannosaurus or Mobarney.
Re:zilla != Godzilla (Score:3, Insightful)
BG
Re:zilla != Godzilla (Score:3)
Quit reaching, and admit its a good claim.
Sure, going after a non-profit project is low
down, but its still in their rights.
Trademark is not copyright. They have to prove that potential customers of theirs are likely to confuse the mark Mozilla with their Godzilla mark. Fairly difficult, I think. As to the image, pictures of lizards and dinosaurs have been around for a long time. The fact that they have not complained before this will count heavily against them, too.
Re:zilla != Godzilla (Score:2)
The word sounds interesting and was made popular by the Godzilla series, and then it became abused by a number of companies. That does not mean that Godzilla owns that particular series of letters.
As for their claim that Davezilla was using their name "GODZILLA", that would be a problem. (although he claims he did not.) Finally, as to their claims of ownership of the image, we would need to look at their trademark registration to see if the two images really are confusing (that's up to a Judge, if Davezilla wants to do that).
frob.
No more Green Mozilla. (Score:5, Informative)
joe.
Re:No more Green Mozilla. (Score:2)
Then I must be color-blind. I keep on seeing a green, fire-breathing lizard on the splash screen whenever I start Moz. And there's another green lizard delivering mail when I start Moz mail.
Re:No more Green Mozilla. (Score:2)
Re:No more Green Mozilla. (Score:3, Informative)
Mozilla has always (well, almost always) used a red dinosaur instead of Netscape's green lizard. Somebody probably considered the trademark thing at some point, but the switch was made only to make it clear that Mozilla.org was a separate entity from Netscape. If Netscape the company ever started using Mozilla as its mascot again, it would still be green.
Reply (Score:2, Funny)
I was in the middle of typing a sensible and well thought out reply about the extent to which the Godzilla trademark should be protected from ripp-offs. Then I realized that the situation can better be described in one sentence.
What a Dick!
Too Late (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Too Late (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Too Late (Score:3, Informative)
As WWE campaign famously says "get the F out"
Re:Too Late (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Too Late (Score:2)
Exclusive rights to an acronym? Please.
That was ridiculous.
No, just British. British trademark law is a bit different from that in the US.
Re:Too Late (Score:5, Informative)
However, since 18-July-1997, the status has been "An opposition is now pending at the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board." There has not been a resolution and so "Mozilla" is not a registered trademark.
God forbid! (Score:5, Insightful)
It must be terrible for them, all that free publicity.
Of course, to retain control of the trademark it might be necessary to come to some licensing agreement, but trying to stamp out the use of -zilla is a serious case of shooting oneself in the foot. Hormel wised up about Spam; you'd think these folks would learn from that example.
Cheers
-b
also (Score:3, Funny)
Forget Mothra... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Forget Mothra... (Score:2)
Re:Forget Mothra... (Score:2)
Robert Smeeeeeeeth... Robert Smeeeeeeth.....
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
ObSimpsons (Score:3, Funny)
Not a big deal. (Score:4, Interesting)
For the most part, however, I doubt that people would think that dave was endorsed by the Godzilla trademark owners. Less so, Mozilla which doesn't actually use the "Godzilla" name. There's nothing wrong with parody, or flattery by mimicry. I don't think that there's much reason for fear, as long as the Mozilla group doesn't try to branch into the horror-movie genre.
Re:Not a big deal. (Score:2)
probably too late (Score:4, Insightful)
Almost sounds as if Toho got bought by the same people who are now claiming the jpeg patent.
Re:probably too late (Score:2)
Dave Pelkey wrote a book called, "Dogzilla" somewhere around the time he wrote, "Cat Kong" so I wonder if anyone else will be trying to sue him.
Someone, either STWPC or one of those other old kit-electronics outfits (not Heath) had "Ampzilla" and "Godzilla" stereo amplifier kits.
Blue Oyster Cult had the hit tune, "Godzilla" so I wonder if they properly obtained use of the trademark.
I'm sure someone can come up with more, those -zillas are just off the top of my head.
Oh Shit (Score:5, Funny)
Not going to fly. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not a lawyer, though, so anyone with a legal education and a better angle on the subject, feel free to correct.
What ever happened to "tradespace"? (Score:5, Interesting)
But what ever happened to the concept of a restricted space within which trademarks are (were?) supposed to operate? I had understood that trademarks were only protected within the same general "realm" of a product -- which is how we've got Excel cars and Excel spreadsheets.
It's seemed to me, with the advent of the modern internet, that all these distinctions have been thrown away, and that the courts are allowing that diminished distinction. So Palm has to stop calling their Pilot a "Pilot" because a pen company complains.
Does anyone know what exactly is the deal here? Have domain-name disputes finally opened the door for a single, universal, all-encompasing product namespace?
If someone wants to call their browser Mozilla (or even Godzilla), then they should be able to, because the chances of someone confusing a web browser with a big lizard are pretty darned slim.
Or have I misunderstood this aspect of (US) trademark law all along?
Re:What ever happened to "tradespace"? (Score:3, Informative)
Once a trademark becomes famous there's a different set of rules that come into play. Even before the Internet you would have had major grief if you'd tried to sell cars or stereos labeled "McDonald's".
What the Internet has been eroding is the concept of a regional trademark, under which there could be a Foobar General Store in Iowa and other in Nebraska.
Words to search for include "dilution", "secondary meaning", and "famous mark".
If you really need to know about a legal question consult an actual lawyer.
Another 'zilla to pester (Score:2)
As a lark when I worked there, I once arranged for us to buy a number of 6 foot inflatable Godzilla dolls, which we dressed in company t-shirts and abused. We also had "I love the lizard!" logo tshirts.
But that was a long time ago and the company is gone now; only the product remains.
This could be some serious revenue (Score:2)
Awful name (Score:2, Troll)
And would someone please help out the Ogg Vorbis people?
Re:Awful name (Score:2)
It's Gojira you moron (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway, the zilla could be an allusion to jirasu (to irritate)
not that it matters these days... (Score:2)
You'd think they'd get the hint after Microsoft unsuccesifully sued Lindows, claiming that they owned anything ending in "indows". If M$ can't do it, how is another company going to?
Toho's Mistake (Score:2)
Nonsense (Score:3, Funny)
Nonsense, everyone knows that Godzilla originated in the depths of time and crawled out of the Pacific after the U.S. nuked the Bikini Islands.
Moreover, your use of the "ZILLA" formative ... is likely to cause the users of your site to believe that the "DAVEZILLA.COM" website is either associated with, authorized by, or sponsored by our client
This is what is known as a portmanteau word. That is a word that conveys meaning by using parts of other words that have definite associations. Words such as smog (smoke and fog), or, more inline with davezilla, monicagate (Monica and Watergate), infomercial (info and commercial), and Linux (Linus and Unix). Whether this can be construed as trademark infringement is somebody else's call, but I rather think that The Almighty (God) and Homer (Trademark holder of the monster named Scylla) might have something to say about this.
Lindows (Score:4, Insightful)
Mozilla has nothing to do with Godzilla. Godzilla is a fictional character, Mozilla is a web browser and a user-agent. The term "Mozilla" as a user-agent has been around since the early days of Netscape. My guess is that any attempt to sue the Mozilla organization for trademark violation would be laughed out of court.
It's Gojira nimnertz !!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
God-zilla is an American Eenglish bastardization. They should at least after the right fucking phoneme.
how rame.
Davezilla (Score:2)
They didn't sue Blue Oyster Cult did they (Score:2)
Sign up their email addresses to porn. Post their sites on portal of evil.com and watch them get trolled. Let the hack attacks begin. I'm sorry but its high time we the people put an end this the obscene litigation in this country.
Blue Oyster Cult (Score:2)
Oh wait, some of them are dead? Fine, the lawyers can sue their descendants!
In fact, screw a national ID system. Every American needs a Personal Assigned Lawyer. Then we can all just have our PAL's sue each other until the entire world collapses under the weight of our beloved democratic Red Tape (TM).
Damnit! I'm not OLD enough to be this SICK of our society yet!!!
Word existed before Godzilla (Score:5, Informative)
Also, consider that Microsoft didn't win againts Lindows and that's a much closer match since it even pertains to the same kind of item or good e.g. an Operating System
I think they should pull an Apple... (Score:3, Funny)
There's no reason to worry..... (Score:3, Funny)
Don't know if that's legally binding or not.
Mozilla was first, I think (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm no trademark attorney, but I'm guessing that, since they're not claiming in the trademark registration that the mark consists of the word + the monster, they don't have a leg to stand on with *zilla claims. Also, it doesn't appear they stopped Bugzilla [uspto.gov] (the cleaning agent, not the software) from registering its trademark in 2000. Milton Bradley has also owned a trademark on Eggzilla [uspto.gov] since 1987.
All in all, they have a lot of fish to fry if they're going to try to reserve *zilla as their own, including multiple existing or pending trademarks. (Budzilla, Rodzilla, and Speedzilla are all currently published for opposition.)
I love the Trademark Electronic Search System...
Re:Mozilla was first, I think (Score:4, Informative)
-Zilla? (Score:3, Funny)
This whole thing just makes me feel illa.
Legitimate infringement, but too little too late. (Score:3, Insightful)
But Toho has taken far too long to say anything about it, and they have no legitimate grounds upon which to complain now. They failed to defend their mark, and now it's part of the common lexicon. It's like what we saw recently with the claims of a privately-held patent on the JPEG standard. Many people rightly quoted, uh, someone, saying something like "those who sleep on their rights cannot expect others to defend them."
New name: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Good (Score:2)
Now thats funny
Re:Good (Score:2)
Seems to me that based on the logic of the linked PDF file, both are fine, copyright-wise.
Now, if the dragon Godzilla is trademarked, that's a different story since that deals with "trade dress" and consumer confusion.
Re:Good (Score:2, Insightful)
Entertainment has its own trademark category. IANAL but unless Toho is offering Godzilla-branded telecommunication services, there's no likelihood of customer confusion and Toho has no legitimate right to crack down on unrelated uses (they're just proving the system can be abused by anyone with deep pockets).
Trademarks aren't about originality but authenticity and reputation. "Stealing" ideas is good--that's how civilization advances!
Partially similar? (Score:2)
Can they even do this? I wasn't aware you could sue someone for using a mark that was partially similar to your own trademark.
I don't know, but you can definately sue for using a mark which is completely similar and partially exact.
Re:Uh oh! (Score:5, Funny)
Reporter: Stop the inauguration! I just discovered our President Elect
got an F in second grade gym class!
[crows gasps; Lisa is handcuffed]
Man: In that case I sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster
Island. [to Lisa] Don't worry, it's just a name.
[Lisa and others are chased by fire-breathing monsters]
Lisa: He said it was just a name!
Man: What he meant is that Monster Island is actually a peninsula.
Re:Ludicrous (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes - exactly. It was
Re:Ludicrous (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good luck.... (Score:2)
Re:Confused (Score:3, Insightful)
Wild Speculation.