Copyright [CBDTPA] Bill Universally Rejected 506
smcavoy writes " Globe Technology is carrying a article about the CBDTPA. "We haven't received one e-mail in support of the Hollings bill," said Judiciary Committee spokeswoman Mimi Devlin. "It seems like there's a groundswell of support from regular users." I wonder if the technology industry was pro CBDTPA, would we be hearing as many bad things about it, in the press?"
Information (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Information (Score:2, Flamebait)
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]
Re:Microsoft produce a secure DRM OS? Yeah right. (Score:3, Insightful)
It will probably never be completely airtight, but it will get painful enough that almost nobody will hack it. Digital satellite recievers and the newer game consoles are a precursor to what you are going to see, and while it's still possible to modify those, fewer and fewer people are even trying to for every generation. Once you get to the point where you have to make shady deals with a friend-of-a-friend and buy your own $1000 soldering equipment to replace the chips that form the foundation of the DRM tech, most people give up.
Nobody but the RIAA/MPAA wants systems like this. It will easily hike the price of a PC by several hundred dollars, if not more, and turn it into a glorified digital decoding device for media playing rather than what it is today. Which is why they try to push it legally, because neither the consumers or the IT industry wants it.
Woohoo! (Score:4, Funny)
Press control overstated (Score:3, Insightful)
i.e. quit the gripping about the press only reporting what MS or so forth want.
Re:Press control overstated (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Press control overstated (Score:2)
Or maybe it's because of the fact that not only are most of the major media outlets controlled by massive conglomerates (<sarcasm>thank you FTC for giving a shit about antitrust issues</sarcasm>) that have a stake in the *AA, but they know damn well that if the public knew anything about these issues, they would be opposed. And if the public became opposed in large enough numbers as could happen here, the issues might not pass. The corporations can't have that happen, now, can they?
Re:Press control overstated (Score:4, Interesting)
The press has always been responsible for it's own failure or success. You can't expect people to regulate it, or steer it in the right direction, when people can only possibly learn of it's misdeeds and mistakes through *gasp*, THE PRESS! The media dips into sensationalism because it allows itself to be driven by profit and whatever it's ratings are, they're NEVER enough. Not ALL people are going to care about what's on the news, it's as simple as that. You can't ruin the news trying to cater to idiots who don't care what's going on outside their small world, and yet, that's exactly what's happened. Sept. 11th should've been a wake up call for the media, as well. I don't know how people could stand for that kind of coverage. Anyone who's watched serious news like the BBC might agree. It was no less than 20 minutes after the planes hit, that NBC had created a 'music video' for the tragedy, with slides of fire, explosions, and people covered in ash flying across the screen as corny, dramatic music played in the background. Despite everything that was happening, it still made me want to turn off the television.
And I think a lot of people are sick and jaded by the nature of our news media, but it's hard to say if anyone will ever know how big this problem is because, again, they'd have to hear about it from the news media.
Re:Press control overstated (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Press control overstated (Score:2)
And this problem is getting worse now that media conglomerates are getting into other businesses. A journalist is going to get even more pressure to ignore transgressions of the parent corporation.
Never give up (Score:3, Interesting)
The system worked... for once (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The system worked... for once (Score:2, Insightful)
This was not a victory of the little guy over the huge corp. With heavy hitters like Intel lined up against this bill, its more like a Battle of the Titans than David vs. Goliath. I doubt the yelling and screaming of the masses had anything near the influence of the dollars of the tech sector. While I agree that this is still a great result, I just don't think we should be deluding ourselves about the reasons behind this victory.
Re:The system worked... for once (Score:2)
I doubt the yelling and screaming of the masses had anything near the influence of the dollars of the tech sector.
While I agree that having Intel on "our" side was the major reason the CBDTPA is going down, I think the yelling and screaming of the masses didn't go unnoticed:
"We haven't received one e-mail in support of the Hollings bill," said Judiciary Committee spokeswoman Mimi Devlin.
Keep up the yelling and screaming!
As much as I'd like the CBDTPA go down in flames.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As much as I'd like the CBDTPA go down in flame (Score:5, Insightful)
Is Hollings up for reelection in November? If so, then the CFR that just passed is not an issue. The congressmen conveniently exempted the upcoming election from the provisions of the bill.
If he's up in a subsequent election, you can still give to Hollings' opponent, that's "hard money" which had the contribution limits raised by CFR, who may or may not run mud-slinging political commercials.
Unfortunately, you won't be able to run issue ads, with or without mud-slinging, about how absurd this bill is right before the election. No, that particular type of free speech has been elminitated by CFR. You can't speak your own mind on issues with media ads right before an election, no, you have to give to a candidate to do it for you.
There's hope that CFR won't stand Judicial review.
Hmmm... I wonder if I don't see a loophole. You could run as a third party candidate, on the ballet or not, and run ads that were essentially issue ads slinging all the mud you wanted. All done with "hard money".
These silly soft money/hard money rules are not going to get the money out of politics, it's just going to move it around.
Re:As much as I'd like the CBDTPA go down in flame (Score:2)
Is Hollings up for reelection in November?
In November 2004...
Re:As much as I'd like the CBDTPA go down in flame (Score:2, Informative)
Just Remember - they'll keep on coming. (Score:5, Insightful)
The drive to regulate the internet and new technology in general, to force it back into the old way of doing things, isn't going away.
Even if we beat this one, there will always be another. Don't get complacent.
Re:Just Remember - they'll keep on coming. (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't help but notice the hammer keeps getting bigger.
I keep feeling like there's a party and it's about to end.
Re:Just Remember - they'll keep on coming. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Just Remember - they'll keep on coming. (Score:4, Insightful)
In my opinion, no new law is needed in the first place. Piracy is already illegal, why do we need a law that bans the tools? It's like banning guns or cars because they could be used to kill.
What the media companies really need to do to protect their profit margins is offer the public something that pirated media canot . . . selection, quality, security (in relation to viruses, etc), preferably all three. Unfortunately, this is not likely. As is the case with MS, the media companies are better at litigation than innovation. It's also cheaper to buy legislation to protect your profit margin than it is to develop better quality.
Now, for the more optmistic part of the rant . . .
Thankfully, the American public (and technology industry) aren't stupid enough to allow a crap bill like this to pass. People aren't generally willig to give up their rights so some lawyer can fill his pocket. And as the bill puts the tech indusry's profit margin in danger, they naturally moved to kill it. Thankfully, the interest of the big tech companies is similar to the average consume r. . . to allow general-purpose computing to continue uninterupted by the idiocy of the media companies
Now, back to pessimism . . .
What we need to watch out for now are the seemingly "safer" bills that will follow. Having been defeated (or so it would seem) in the attempt to get it all at once, the media companies (and said puppets) will try again in increments.
If this comment makes sense in any way, I apologize. It was not my intention,
Re:Just Remember - they'll keep on coming. (Score:3, Interesting)
digitalconsumer.org (Score:3, Informative)
Wow. I feel like lobbying actually worked. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wow. I feel like lobbying actually worked. (Score:2)
Agreed. This is one of those few times I actually got off my ass, read up on the info at the EFF and wrote Senator Leahay and Senator Hollings. I was polite but firm in my disgust of the bill. Seems like we did make a difference...I'm shocked and impressed.
Re:Wow. I feel like lobbying actually worked. (Score:3, Interesting)
Fair enough, we could have told them that for free. Oh wait, we did! Well done.
Best part, Hollings can't understand why the tecchie companies won't cooperate with him. "please write me a DRM system for free" he asks, and all he gets back in return are attempted beatings with a clue-stick.
*Your emails, not mine. Pity non-americans can't bug congressmen for this stuff that'll be applied worldwide, but we can go through the EFF.
Re:Wow. I feel like lobbying actually worked. (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, there's the tactic of submitting a really extreme bill, which gets rejected, and then submitting a bill that's only moderately extreme, so senators are swayed by thinking "this one isn't so bad".
This will be back. Mark my words.
Campaign Donations vs. Votes (Score:3, Interesting)
This is just a heads up. . . (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously. Since when do politicians listen to their constituents over deep pocketed industry types? I declare rumors of this bill's demise to be greatly exagerated.
Re:This is just a heads up. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
You need to understand that politicians listen to deep-pocketed industry types because they give them lots of money so they can fund their reelection campaign. All the industry blood money in the world isn't going to help their campaign one single bit if 50% (+1) of their constituents is pissed off at them.
So politicians will only be swayed by the almighty buck as long as they can get away with it without perceiving a threat from the voting public. When the public speaks loudly, it speaks much louder than all the campaign contributions that could possibly be forthcoming.
Don't give up. We, the people, have power. The problem is that we often don't excercise it and, in that void, corporate interests take over. If it's the Corporate States of America it's because we the people are not doing OUR job.
Re:This is just a heads up. . . (Score:3, Informative)
Right, because we the people rarely care enough. When they see a "groundswell" of response from the public they get worried that this is not one of those cases and that they will get punished.
And why be a politician in the first place if you can't cash in your influence? To serve the people? Don't make me laugh.
Most politicians, from what I have seen, are more interested in power than money. They'd rather "be there" for another term than cash in on a few million now. They like being wined and dined and feeling important. Not that they don't cash in, but I think most of them are in it for the long haul and aren't going to do something that nets them a few dollars today and costs them the election next time around.
In monetary terms, the "future value" of the office is worth more than the "present value" of the RIAA's campaign contributions.
Bottom line: it is worth the risk to take the money and screw the voters. If the only way to stay in office is to defend the interests of voters over the interests of deep pocketed contributors (and sacrifice those contributions) what's the point of being in office? If it comes to that, they'll just call in their favors and get a cushy consulting or lobbyist job.
This, and many other examples, refutes that. You may be cynical enough to believe all they want to do is line their pockets. And I'm not saying that doesn't happen. But I strongly believe that what most of them want is another term. If they can do that AND get rich at the same time, they're even happier. But given the choice between campaign dollars and a pissed off public that'll get them evicted next election, they'll try to keep the public happy.
Even if what they're after is money, they can't achieve that goal if we vote them out of office.
Boxer and Feinstein are 0wned. (Score:3, Interesting)
And I will vote for Pigasus before I'll vote for Feinstein again.
Senator Boxer is thoroughly 0wned by Hollywood. She's just as bad as Feinstein.
Much as I don't like Republicans and much as I do like women in the Capitol I'm going to vote Libertarian next Senatorial elections. Throw these sellouts to the MPAA and RIAA out the fsckin' door. See ya...
Re:This is just a heads up. . . (Score:2)
"If you can't drink there licqure, take their money and fuck their women, then vote against them, your in the wrong business."
Re:This is just a heads up. . . (Score:2)
Of course, in this case, the bill is also opposed by the majority of the deep-pocketted industries, which might be the real reason.
Whew! (Score:4, Insightful)
I hope no one here is dumb enough to hold this attitude until it really is dead...
My Faith restored in Democracy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My Faith restored in Democracy (Score:2)
I'd say it's not dead until Mr. Hollings is...or perhaps not until Disney Co. is...
The monkeys in Washington DC might have heard us, but believe me, they'll find another way to earn a good ROI on the money given them by the large corporate interests - public opinion be dammed!
Cheers!
Re:My Faith restored in Democracy (Score:3, Insightful)
What exactly do you think a Special Interest Group is? Its a group of people who see an issue that they consider Really Important and come together to lobby hard about it. What exactly do you think the geek community (for want of a better term) has done over the Hollings Bill? Mass lobbying is a well used and effective form of Special Interest Group organization.
Special Interest Groups are an inevitable and proper part of any democratic system. The systems without Special Interest Groups are those where most people have no say over how they are governed.
The CE Industry (Score:4, Interesting)
Remember MS received a patent on a DRM OS. They will use that to court everybody who wants to restrict information access, and use it internally to sell/control their own software.
Re:The CE Industry (Score:2)
Their PR would be "Buy our great software with new feature to protect Hollywood and big record lables." vs. their competitors "Buy our software to listen to music and watch DVD's" or to put it another way "rip, mix, burn"
Re:The CE Industry (Score:2)
Re:The CE Industry (Score:2)
Re:The CE Industry (Score:2)
You can bet the DRM OS will be Windows. Maybe not for another 3-5 years given MS timetables, but it *will* be Windows and not an addon.
Re:The CE Industry (Score:2)
And it worked... (Score:2)
I'd be satisfied too, so far it looks to have been a pretty effective strategy. Let's hope it is successful enough to get this malignant bill killed at the earliest possible opportunity.
Re:And it worked... (Score:2)
Ho Hum...
~Jason
Re:And it worked... (Score:2)
Senator Hollings and his spokesman Andy Davis?
Re:And it worked... (Score:2)
and his co-conspirators Sens. Feinstein (D-CA), Stevens (R-AK), Inouye (D-HI), Nelson (D-FL), and Breaux (D-LA), as well as Congressman Adam Schiff (D-Burbank, CA)?
Yes, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Public opinion doesn't stop autocrats from making repugnant decisions (look at Nixon-Reagan's drug policies for historical perspective). These politicians have already been paid by their investors (RIAA, etc...) to manufacture their product (:%s/SSSCA/nom de jour/), so this bill will become law soon and a majority of Americans--the majority whose opinions match the opinions of their favorite television news personality--will come to believe it is a Good Thing®.
Re:Not helping. (Score:2)
Sure, it isn't too probable, but it can happen.
Fortunatly, for me, I'm not planning to hold my breath, if that's alright with you.
I'll do what I can to try and change what I can, but I'm perfectly realistic about my chances, without large sums om money.
Cheers!
Thank goodness. (Score:2, Funny)
CDBPBBTTSTD Aproaching Critical Mass... of EVIL! (Score:2)
In fact, so many of those articles are getting so negatively slanted that it's becoming sensationalistic. Just like the lurid love affair the press had with O.J.'s (100% Not Guilty!) dirty deeds, the papers, newsrooms, and online news sites have picked up on something that's a 'winner' in terms of public outrage, tabloid sensationalism, and outright bribery.
Can we hope for Gary Condit-esque levels of mudslinging? Dare we aspire to John Wayne Bobbit levels of exposure and discomfort?
Fritz Hollings is getting his name dragged through the mud right now, and the press couldn't be happier than to have a new kicking dog in him and in the form of the CDBTPA or whatever the hell it's called.
For once, sensationalism works for geeks....
Re:CDBPBBTTSTD Aproaching Critical Mass... of EVIL (Score:2)
Also, boycott Star Wars because this is only one little skirmish, and the companies will want everything forever, and they will keep trying to get everything forever, even if they have to get it in little bits over time. I think getting SW to tank would make a much bigger statement than thousands of letters being sent to Congress.
Trying to make it work... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article:
Of course they didn't "try to make it work." Why would any tech company risk being associated with stripping the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens. I think the tech companies have recognized that the media conglomerates are going to get their way no matter what. Why lend credibility to the "solution" by participating in a sham process?
Media companies did learn a valuable lesson with DiVX: don't trust your interests to consumer pressures - it's far more effective to buy legislation instead.
Re:Trying to make it work... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think that tech companies are so terribly concerned with stripping the constitutional rights of US citizens as they are with stripping their products of functionality.
That's why Intel was so down on this. They're smart enough to see that this bill would turn PCs into fancy DVD/CD players. They're not in that business, they're in the computer business and want to sell general purpose computers, which implies all those nasty things like editing, copying, transferring, communicating and other functionality that would be lobotomized by the provisions of this bill.
It's not just the groundswell of public opinion against this that saves the day, but the opposition of the whole tech industry (I guess maybe Sony might be the exception), which is far larger than the entertainment industry, that (hopefully) spells doom for this bill.
We Did Try to Work with Hollings (Score:4, Interesting)
And how did the esteemed senator respond? ``You're not one of my constituents, so I won't listen to you."
BTW, why would someone moderate the parent comment ``Flamebait"? Sheesh!
Geoff
Don't stop the lobbying! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Don't stop the lobbying! (Score:5, Informative)
It's dead... for this session at least, but you're right, we need to stay vigilant.
Re:Don't stop the lobbying! (Score:2)
Sen. Leahy, chair of the Judiciary Committee, came down with an attack of good sense, and said that he won't let it out of committee.
Good for his fellow Democrats. I don't think I'm alone in that I will not vote for any member of congress who votes for the CBDTPA. Actually, I will go out to the polls specifically to vote for the opponent of anyone who votes for this bill. Plus, I will actively campaign against any sponsor or strong supporter of the bill who happens to be a representative of my state or district.
I wish Leahy had let it out of committee. It would make my job on election day that much simpler.
From the Wired article (Score:2)
From the Wired article [wired.com] on Leahy's stopping CBDTPA, there's this nugget:
"Also this week, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-California) told Wired News he was drafting a House bill that would be similar to the CBDTPA."
Looks like Mr. Schiff, the "representative from Disney", representing the mouse's backyard in Glendale, CA, also now needs to be slapped down. What saddens me is that it's reps from my own party (Dems) that are doing this. Just goes to show that whoever is paying for the candidacy gets to make the law. I'm willing to support someone else in the primary over this issue alone.
Do something (Score:4, Informative)
No idea on our rights!?!?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Excuse me, but last time I checked, my rights were inalienable and included everything that I didn't willingly give up for the good of society. It has nothing to do with what lawyers have deemed acceptable for me to have. If your business sense is as acute as your legal sense, it's no wonder your portal is now "defunct".
Beefed-up Right of First Sale the first step... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that codifying the concept of "Right of First Sale" into law would be a good start. Note that the Authors Guild is raising a stink over Amazon's sale of used books [com.com]. However, they are legally standing on quicksand because US law states that once you buy a book you are free to do whatever you want with it. That's the law, folks! Stomp your feet and whine all you want, you can't do anything about it.
A universal Right of First Sale would invalidate EULAs. In the state of California, you are now free to sell software that came bundled with your PC thanks to a sensible appelate judge who applied the Right of First Sale to software. The RIAA and MPAA would probably love to stop you from selling your used CDs and used DVDs, but there again is that pesky Right of First Sale. It is (still last I checked) legal to buy and sell used DVDs and CDs.
Universalizing Right of First Sale would also put a monkey wrench into attempts to criminalize the use of DeCSS to play DVDs on Linux. Hey, you bought that DVD...you have a right to play it on any OS you choose.
Same with region coding. You bought a DVD from a European or Japanese store over the Internet? Bought it fair and square? You didn't steal it? Good. You have the right to do with it what you will. Including hacking your DVD player to accommodate it.
I have no illusions that this will ever happen. But this is one way of preserving the rights we already have. The doctrine is already on the books. Let's encourage its application to new technology.
Interesting... (Score:3, Interesting)
Media firms could also take a page from the antipiracy playbook of software companies, who concentrate on shutting down large, commercial piracy operations rather than trying to control individual users, he said.
I would wager that it would be easier to buy a bill than it would be stop some companies like Kaaza or Morpheus...
Or an even better idea... make digital music cheaper and more usuable.
This is amusing. (Score:5, Funny)
What did they expect?
Hollings: I'd like to pass a bill that will take away all your rights to using digital media.
Consumers: Hmm how about just some of our rights?
Hollings: Will taking a way 2/3 of your civil rights be good?
Consumers: Ok that works for us.
But who will laugh last? (Score:5, Informative)
That is apparently uncomfortably close to the truth. Apparently the CBDTPA is mainly intended as a stalking horse [eff.org]. Its proponents don't seriously hope it to pass in anything like its current form, much as they would love if it did. It seems that what they're really aiming for at present is legislation specifically to enforce their plans for digital TV [eff.org]; after their opening demands have been rejected, they'll barter down to that. The resulting legislation will then be praised as the product of compromise and consensus. Both sides will claim a partial victory. And the studios will have exactly what they were hoping to get. Whenever they want some more, they'll simply repeat the process. Eventually it will become politically feasible to pass something like the current CBDTPA, since it will be possible to plausibly claim that it would only tidy up all the piecemeal copy-protection acts and amendments that by then will already be law.
He is just determined to not get it (Score:4, Insightful)
"They seem satisfied to try to attack it in the press rather than trying to make it work," said Sen. Hollings spokesman Andy Davis.
How much evidence does he need that we don't want it to work? It is a law designed to prevent people from engaging in legal activities, at the sole discretion of corporate interests with no oversight. That's why no, we're most definitely not trying to make it work.
seeing is believeing (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd rather have them get a copy of my CD for free, realize they like it and then want to see my concert. The box office is where much the killing is made. For musicians, at least those not on the top 40 - read, most of the musicians that exist - selling CD's is not gonna bring home the bacon. Seeing a live show is just not the same as listening to a CD, there's something about being there, the sheer volume and the whole experience that makes it different. Not that I was there but I doubt Woodstock '69 the complete CD set would have the moxy that the show itself did.
so, to somehow stay on this story's topic, this bill goes against that which music and art is - freedom of expression and getting that expression to the general populace. I'm glad to see people standing up for this bill. think about it - because people want to make a buck they're forcing you to NOT give away your stuff for FREE.
Quote of the Day: (Score:5, Funny)
<FLASHBACK>
Imaginary interview with Hollings and Davis:
Hollings: It's like the time we tried to legislate that pi=3, and these stupid tech forms didn't want to make it work! They kept doggedly insisting that it was this long number, like 3.14159something, and that it couldn't be expressed as a rational number!
Davis: Yeah, I mean, they wouldn't even compromise on the issue - during Congressional testimony, we had Andy Grove of Intel on the stand, and we offered him "3.14?" He said, "no, it's pi" "22/7?" "No, pi is a transcendental number." Utterly ridiculous. As if good Christians should have to put up with this sort of new age Transcendentalist movement. Maybe in California, but not in South Carolina, by gum!
Hollings: And the engineers were worse than the mathematicians. We got letters from all these so-called rational thinkers tryin' to convince us that simple things like the wheel and the suspension bridge weren't based on rational numbers! Can't they see that they're the ones being irrational about this?
Davis: There's just no negotiating with technology people. They don't want to make it work, they don't even want to try to make it work. Why won't they even try to see things from our point of view? Hollings: So we're moving ahead with the legislation. They kept trying to get us to move from 3 to 3.14whatever? We subtracted double than their beloved 0.14159265whatever, and came up with 2.718281828. They can have pi=2.718 or nothing at all!
Davis: They're bluffing when they say math won't work with our proposal. Maybe it'll just make a few things harder for them in the short term, but when the law makes pi=2.718, they'll have to innovate in order to build anything!
Hollings: Yeah! Now we'll see who really knows how to promote engineering and mathematical innovation our children's schools!
</FLASHBACK>
Re:Quote of the Day: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Quote of the Day: (Score:3, Funny)
Like I said, I'm a little hazy on the details (especially the exact date) but the bill never actually became law.
/Brian
We should go on the offensive (Score:5, Interesting)
According to opensecrets.org [opensecrets.org] he was elected in 1998, which means the next election is 2004. Is it mere coincidence or is the midpoint of a Senate term the ideal time to deal with the sleaziest bills that PAC money can buy?
I find it really odd that this guy is a Democrat. I'm a Republican, and it's usually my guys who specialize in catering to anti-consumer interests like this. The Democrats ususally waste money on social programs and tax the hell out of the middle class to pay for it. He really should make up his mind: either be sleazy or counterproductive; it's not good to be both.
Re: Elections this year? (Score:3, Informative)
Steve
Making examples..start with Fritz (Score:2, Interesting)
It might worthwhile to consider starting a grass roots effort to now oust Ernest Hollings.
Need to let congressmen know that there are penalties for stupid legislation and perhaps other congressmen might think before doing this.
This would be the "two" of the "one-two" punch.
Then again geeks aren't known for fighting.....
Text of the CBDTPA (S.2048) (Score:3, Informative)
Don't give up the fight yet (Score:2, Insightful)
And above all, don't become smug and complacent. We still have a long way to go.
And remember, as long as the bill is still alive in Congress somewhere, it's still a threat.
Obviously support should matter... (Score:5, Interesting)
Essentially, copyright is there to protect society from freeloaders - of course people that
The thing that is forgotten, however, is that this happens because society wants it. The moment the population decides that the cost / benefit proposition isn't good enough, they should be able to get rid of these laws. Hence, if people
So basically, whilst many things obviously aren't put to the vote, since copyright can only be defended on the basis that if people really think about it they support it, if people really don't it can't be defended. So if people are really against this sort of bill, it would be ridiculous to pass it.
Re:Obviously support should matter... (Score:3, Insightful)
The government granted monopoly is only a means to achieve that end. No one is entitled to make money off of "intellecutal property".
It's a digital world (Score:3, Insightful)
What did the music industry get out of "going digital"? Remarkably lower production and manufacturing and shipping costs. Cheap digital sound processing equipment. Cheap razzle-dazzle digital effects processing. High quality mastering equipment, cheap. Easy to use production tools (cheaper studio labor). Cha Ching! this went right into the record companies' profits.
However, they squeezed out the digital toothpaste, and once they realized that this allows people to make infinite perfect digital copies, they decided they maybe didn't want digital technology after all.
RIAA-
I'll tell you what. Switch back to vinyl. 'k? Really. It'll kill off the music pirates once and for all (shhhh! don't TELL them!!). I know that you lose all those nice benefits that the computer industry gave you with the commoditization of digital technology - but it will also save you from the ugly side effects of the commoditization of digital technology! Gasp! Everyone now has tools on their desktops to make infinite perfect digital copies at no cost!!
Methinks you guys should have gone and taken a few computer classes before you bought into this whole "digital technology" thing.
*snicker*
Mainstream opposition (Score:2)
I've noticed a very cool trend lately: mainstream opposition to this bill. I've seen a number of letters to the editor and editorial columns and even overheard a few non-geek conversations, all trashing it. I even heard some discussion on talk radio last week.
Today, however, I heard the coolest example yet. I flipped on the radio to one of the rock/alternative/metal stations I listen to, and the DJ was ranting about the CBPTPA and inviting listeners to call in. The callers were about as articulate as you'd expect (one of them was obviously *very* stoned), but they still made many of the same good points about this piece of crap legislation that you read on /. and other fora.
Word is getting out -- and *nobody* likes this piece of crap bill, except the RIAA. Not even artists, as far as I can tell, and the RIAA would have us believe its for the musicians that they're doing this.
In other news... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:In other news... (Score:3, Funny)
...well except for this one from this guy named Three-one-three-three-t-three h-four-x-zero-r saying that we have been r-zero-zero-three-d, not sure what he meant by that" said Judiciary Committee spokeswoman Mimi Devlin.
Those Wacky Corporate Sectors! (Score:5, Insightful)
Can you blame them? The CBDTPA is really just like a gigantic unfunded mandate laid at the doorstep of the tech community with a note tied around it reading "Fix this for us and we'll let you live."
Bear in mind how much effort it would take to DRM-safe all the computer equipment sold in the country, if not world. Proposed DRM standards would spring up from the ground like swarms of rabid fruitbats, and whenever equipment designed for these DRM systems barfed on legally purchased media, it would be the *tech* sector that gets stuck with the blame, not the *media* sector.
The media sector tried to save itself money by drafting a bill to prevent piracy and whatnot, and save their income. No surprise there.
Faced with the expense of all of this new DRM R&D, implementation, and fielding of complaints, the tech sector chose to fight it rather than allow it to pass, and save their income.
This is probably one of the *few* things that defeated the bill: that all large corporations, not just the media hegemony, are typically greedy and lazy, in that order; I don't believe that grassroots action had anything to do with it.
The bill will come back. It was the SSS-whatever, it became the CBDTPA, and it will metamorph into something else as long as the Senator From Disney is in office. In the meantime, the best thing we can do to the media companies' war chests is not fill them.
MP3 Revolution is Still Vulnerable (Score:2, Insightful)
The second MP3 wave has yet to hit. How many of us can say our parents are actively downloading MP3's and burning them onto CD's? Answer: Very few. How many people do you know who have never burned an audio CD? Answer: Plenty.
The first MP3 wave hit hard. Most technical savvy people have a large MP3 collection. When the second wave hits and MOST OF AMERICA uses MP3s, the US population will believe it's their *RIGHT* to download free music, and the MP3 revolution will be complete. Until that time, the MP3 revolution is vulnerable. Bottom line: Don't get too happy about the rejection of this copyright bill.
Re:MP3 Revolution is Still Vulnerable (Score:3, Interesting)
>> but i dont believe that it is anyones
>> right to download copyrighted material for free
You do precisely that anytime you tune into a commercially supported television or radio signal.
It's *not* dead, Jim! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's great that Congress is getting all these comments against the CBDTPA, but anyone who thinks it's dead is terribly naive. It won't be officially dead until the end of the Congressional term, and it can and probably will be reintorduced next year. The absolute worst thing we can do is to stop now. If we do, our opposition will soon be forgotten, and the bill will get pushed through.
The best way to put this into perspective is to realize that we do have the power to raise awareness and get people's attention. This doesn't mean we've won. Far from it. It just means that the big media companies and their allies in Congress know we're here, and they'll now have to counter that. Does anyone honestly think that Jack Valenti will call up his buddy Fritz Hollings and say, "Fritz, we honestly didn't know that people would get so riled up over this. Look, we don't want to irritate our customers, so let's just pull this bill." Hell no! If they're talking about anything, they're discussing ways to put a positive spin on this monstrosity.
Now is not the time to get complacent. That will doom us more than anything else. Keep sending those letters, making those phone calls, and talking with friends and colleagues. If we can get their attention by doing what we've done so far, we can do much more if we take this to the next level.
Woohoo!!!!! (Score:2)
Dont let down your guard (Score:3, Interesting)
Hollings must go. (Score:5, Insightful)
That means become single-issue voters and supporters. Who here will pledge $2000 of hard money contributions to any candidate who opposes Hollings? Or the max you can afford? Cause that's what it will really take to change things. And it needs to be done even if that candidate has other positions you disagree with.
A new ally...and exposure for our side (Score:3, Interesting)
According to this NEWS.COM article [com.com], Gateway is going to be voicing its opposition to the CBDTPA. The best part is that they're going to begin airing a national TV spot on the topic of downloading and burning music. Doesn't look like it's going to directly reference the bill, but people will doubtless see it, and it will prime them for exposure to information about what's going on. I'd recommend that everyone here watch for the ad and see if it can be used as a reference when writing letters to newspapers or your Congressional reps.
Definitely a good thing here.
Enumerated rights is the wrong approach (Score:3, Insightful)
Release: Copyright Protection Law (Score:5, Interesting)
NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
Washington DC 20037
World Wide Web: http://www.LP.org
For release: April 10, 2002
For additional information:
George Getz, Press Secretary
Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222
E-Mail: pressreleases@hq.LP.org
New copyright protection bill would turn government into entertainment 'rent-a-cop'
WASHINGTON, DC -- The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act (CBDTPA), a bill that would supposedly reduce digital piracy, should be rejected by Congress because it would turn the government into a "rent-a-cop" for the entertainment industry, the Libertarian Party said today.
"The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act will not only inconvenience consumers and throw roadblocks in the way of new technology, it will vastly expand the power of the government," warned the party's executive director, Steve Dasbach.
"While the federal government may have a legitimate role in protecting copyrighted material, that role does not extend to acting as a technology rent-a-cop to protect the profits of huge entertainment corporations like Disney, Sony, and DreamWorks."
Last week, Senator Ernest F. Hollings (D-SC) filed S-2048, the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act.
The bill would make it a federal crime -- punishable by five years in jail and a $500,000 fine -- to sell software or hardware that does not contain shielding measures that make it impossible to play or copy protected materials like songs, movies, or TV shows.
The bill's provisions would apply to computers, video-editing software, CD players, VCRs, MP3 players and software, DVD players, and televisions, among others. The copyright-protection technology would be determined either by manufacturers and entertainment companies, or mandated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).
The CBDTPA is allegedly designed to stop digital piracy, which has become an increasing problem now that everything from songs to movies are in digital form, and downloadable from the Internet.
But the CBDTPA goes far beyond any reasonable role the government might have in protecting copyrighted works, said Dasbach.
"According to the Constitution, the federal government has the power to 'promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive rights to their respective writings and discoveries,'" he noted. "In other words, Congress can grant exclusive copyrights, which entertainers can defend, as necessary, by filing copyright infringement lawsuits.
"The CBDTPA, by contrast, gets the federal government involved in the production of everything from televisions to computers, and software programs to operating systems. And, instead of just targeting criminals who illegally steal copyrighted materials, it treats every consumer as a potential digital pirate -- while turning federal bureaucrats into the Digital Police."
Further, said Dasbach, the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act would:
"The bill would make it impossible for you to turn a CD you purchased into MP3 songs to play on your computer," he said. "It guts the traditional notion of 'fair use,' which allows consumers non-commercial reproduction rights."
"Federally mandated copyright-protection technology will not only drive up the cost of computers, DVD players, and VCRs, it may force consumers to purchase multiple copies of movies and albums -- pouring billions of extra dollars into the pockets of wealthy conglomerates," he said.
"The bill is a dream come true for Bill Gates, because it could make it illegal to own one of the most successful operating system competitors to Microsoft Windows," he said. "The result would be to stifle competition in the computer industry."
In short, the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act is an overly broad, overly rigid, and overly intrusive response to the problem of digital piracy, said Dasbach.
"Digital piracy is a real dilemma, and the entertainment industry has a real challenge ahead of it -- to figure out how to make a profit and protect artists in a digital age," he said. "But the solution is not to pass the CBDTPA, which would turn the federal government into the omnipresent technology police, and treat every consumer like a criminal."
What Does He Mean "No Helpful Suggestions"? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why, I offered several helpful suggestions in my letters to my senators:
I suggested that protections for fair use rights be written into the bill (appending a copy of the Digital Consumer Bill of Rights [digitalconsumer.org] as a proposed model), and that the penalties for infringing those rights be made equivalent to those for copyright violation.
I suggested that, to insure that the new standard did not unduly impair independent publishing, the requirements for the final standard would have to include a complete lack of patent, copyright, or trade secret encumbrances.
I think I forgot to suggest that CPR teams be dispatched to watch Jack Valenti, Hilary Rosen, and Bill Gates before the new version of the bill was released for public comment. I can only hope that one of the staffers realized this necessity in time.
Regular Users!?!? (Score:3, Insightful)
"It seems like there's a groundswell of support from regular users."
WTF? We're not taxpayers, we're not citizens, we're not people, we're 'users'!?!?! That's like one step from dropping all pretense and calling us 'consumers'. Even though this is good news, that one phrase sends shivers of terror down my spine.
From the What-you-do-can-actually-matter dept: (Score:4, Insightful)
> I always have wondered about the actual effect that talking/writing to your representitives has had. It seems like, at least in this case, the decision against it was based almost entirely around citizen outrage. ... [petree:#3319491]
This is a real demonstration of the power that large group of people, living in a democratic society, can actually impart on their government. We all know it doesn't happen that often. We've all seen scary bills come up - and pass, again and again. Just like that. Done. New law. More restrictions. Your life is now different. More words in the books to prevent what you can do - as a citizen - legally. Forced into submission. Why these new laws? Here's your answer: Lobbyists.
We just sit there an let it happen. The lobbyists are paid to sweet-talk out lawmakers. Tell them it's 'A good idea for the people', 'it's the right thing to do' or that 'this will protect the good people; the god-fearing, law abiding, tax-paying citizens, from the scum of the earth - the good ones are the people you're working for sir.'
These lawmakers listen to them - the lobbyists - BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES SPEAKING!!!
People - if there's a law out there you don't like - do something people have been doing for hundreds of years. Do something very simple. Tell that person that makes the laws that you don't like what they are doing. Be honest with your lawmaker (in writing - handwritten) and tell them what you think. Just express your opinion. Takes 10 minutes (or longer - if you'd like). Get out a piece of paper and a pen. Blank page - but don't be scared. You can do this - even if you never have before.
This is what our government is really about, remember? They are called "Representatives." Remember that word? You learned it in 4th grade - when Mrs. Crabapple told you about the various branches of government, and the checks and balances, and the lifecycle of something called a "bill." Ok think back to that. These people are representatives - that we elect - to us in the house of government. They represennt us - but they need to know how we feel!
Forget the government you know of today. The one where things just happen and it feels like you have no control. These people are supposed to be representing you..... No - not the YOUr city, or the YOUr county, or YOUr voting district.... You as in YOU [insert your name here] - an individual. A person with thoughts and feelings, with bills to pay, with kids to take to soccer practice, with laws to abide by. You are the ones that matter. You are the ones that pay the bills - pay their salary! They better listen to you.
>Now is not the time to get complacent. That will doom us more than anything else. Keep sending those letters, making those phone calls, and talking with friends and colleagues. If we can get their attention by doing what we've done so far, we can do much more if we take this to the next level.[SomeoneYouDontKnow:#3319793]
Who makes these laws?
Lobbyists make these laws and they think they are protecting you. Often they are. But more than often - they have NO IDEA ABOUT THE LAWS THEY ARE INTRODUCING. And who's the expert? - you. You're obviously concerned about it? Right?............. Well then.....<nudgeNudge> go ahead. Tell him. (or her) Do it in writing and encourage others to do the same!
Ok - now. Remember that paper and pen you got out? Right. Now set them down in front of you - ok... Now write on the paper - in nice, neat letters: "Dear <insert your representative's name here>,"
Good start. Now - tell him (or her - please rinse/repeat ther "her" thing throughout) which bill he has recently introduced that you will be refering to, why, or what parts of his decision you may support, OR would support his decision IF <insert modified clause here>, then tell him the things you don't like about it. Continue with how such a bill, if introduced, would change the way you live, would limit your freedoms, or would cause you undue stress or unfair setbacks. Plead with them to reconsider the bill in it's current state and to either drop it alltogether or modify certain clauses to cause you less distress or potential problems. What we all need to do is share our views with our representatives when we hear about a bill we don't want passed. I have alway thought that I wouldn't have much of an impact on my government decision-makers because I am only one person - one voice - on letter of angst. But obviously, as we've seen tonight, the common man can make a difference - IF HE SPEAKS LOUDLY ENOUGH. Raise a hussy. Tell them you don't like it! Be honest - it's your governement too!
Heck - even if they end up passing the law - too much big money pressure - you can at least make them feel guilty about it. I know - the torture we put these guys through :) Just remember - they are supposed to be working for us - not JUST big money. Remind them of that. Give them your sob story. --AND DO IT IN HANDWRITING--
Yes --DO IT IN HANDWRITING--
Tell them you don't like their law. Tell them you know lots of other people in your comunity, or at work, or at PTA meetings, that feel the same way (if such a thing is true). Just be honest and put down what you'd like to say to them. Dont' be rude. Be civil and professional and express yourself in writing your feelings about their bill. (or about someone elses bill they will be voting on).
If you've got somthing to say - fscking say it. Express your disapproval. Write your representatives. 10 minutes and a stamp. Take a night off of watching one TV show. (It's empowering to do something useful - for you and your country/county/state/whatever instead of watching advertisements and listening to laugh tracks).
If you think that just one person can't have a big impact, try going to bed with a mosquito.
Not one in support? Bullshit! (Score:3, Funny)
Here is what I sent them:
Gentlemen,
I am a computer professionnal, being active in the field of software development and IT administration since 1979. Although I am not an American citizen, I would like to comment on the CBDPTA being studied by your committee.
This innovative bill, by crippling the ability of the U.S. computer industry to freely introduce innovative technology, will tremenduously favourize the (rest of the) world computer industry. Imposing limits on computer systems that would be illegal in many countries is a sure way to insure that the rest of the world computer industry will finally catch-up and leave in the dust the U.S. computer industry.
The other 95% of the world will be eternally grateful to the (comparatively) minuscule Hollywood movie industry for having the much bigger U.S. computer industry ground to a halt by having to spend a significant portion of their ressources just to comply with the CBDPTA.
Most other industries (those who use computers) will also benefit, as their U.S. counterparts will be hindered by less performing computers that are hobbled both in cost and performance by their expensive content monitoring "features", thus making them less efficient than their unencumbered foreign counterparts.
Another foreign industry that shall benefit will undoubtely the illegal drug industry, as it will be easier to ship illegal drugs to the United States as the U.S. Customs service will undoubtely be very busy searching for illegal computer contraband.
Please do consider the passage of this Act, as the world's computer industry needs a reprieve from the very innovative U.S. computer industry.
Thank-you.
Re:Canadian press? (Score:2)
It is basically a Reuter's article, but they aren't covering it up. Just stashing it in the "Technology" section... where it belongs.
Don't get me wrong, I doubt you'll see this bill being discussed on ANY news analysis show. Their bosses don't want the other side to get the airtime. Maybe it is time to start a letter writing campaign to the O'Reilly Factor and Hardball (screw Donahue).
Re:You poor sap (Score:2, Insightful)
Who is handled more? Those who sit back and preach about how evil government is and how much activism is simply wasted effort or those who at least try (however futile) to affect some actual change? Seems to me your handled with alot less effort by 'the man' than the activists.
Re:You poor sap (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not speaking as a typical slashdot ranter here (I do that elsewhere), but one who (unfortunately) has worked for government at various levels in the past. The administration - meaning the bureaucracy the politicians are supposed to direct and control - is actually in charge of the system. They can, and often do, ignore the directives of elected officials, convincing said officials that they actually are doing as they're told to the best of their ability. At every level of government I worked in upper, non-elected management had nothing but contempt for elected officials and openly plotted (yes, I use the word 'plotted') ways to get around directives or ignore them altogether. And, since 99% of the information available to politicians *comes from these very same departments* they were able to present a convincing case that 'thing x' couldn't be done, or could be done only by 'process y', while at the same time deriding public opposition as being from cranks for folks who 'just didn't understand the realities of the situation'. Elected officials, who generally aren't the brightest bulbs by any standards, are just as easily snowed by 500-page reports full of tables and statistics as anyone else is, no matter how bogus the numbers might be.
This situation is exacerbated by the fact that these bureaucracies - at all levels, check your city code if you think otherwise - have the unconstitutional power to pass laws without the permission of elected officials (they're called 'administrative rules', but they have the same force as any law) and to raise taxes as well (these are called 'administrative fees'). The ability to legislate and tax at the whim of unelected bureaucrats without having to answer to whatever legislature is in charge at that level of government allows the system to do as it pleases while paying lip-service to the politicians.
So what do these management-types occupy themselves with? Primarily in contesting with other management-types to increase their own power while diminishing that of rivals. This is done mostly through trying to get the biggest cut of the budget pie and through employing as many people in that division as possible. It's a rather 20th century version of feudal dukedoms hashing it out for the most 'territory' and 'serfs'. There is no 'ultimate end' to this contest; only the contest itself, and the self-worth it generates for these management folks if they score a 'win' at the expense of someone else's 'loss', counts.
You'd think that the whole damn system was run by a bunch of overgrown frat boys.
This also explains why government is so bloody wasteful (apart from people taking every opportunity to pad their own pockets, or those of relatives and friends). Enormous resources are thrown towards improving one's place in the contest, without regard as to whether or not it's a wise use of tax dollars. Not that this presents a moral problem; the 'fuck the taxpayer' attitude is also common in management, especially when the taxpayer dares to question the decisions of said management.
The end result is that you not only have elections where the race boils down to 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' corporate sluts, but a bureaucracy which will do anything in it's power to emasculate a candidate who actually seems interested in serving the common citizen and isn't snowed by internal reports. So even when an election doesn't present you with two versions of the same corporate whore, the system is sure to sabotage the honest guy you vote into office.
At all levels, the system is fundamentally broken. What to do about it is something I haven't settled on, but I do know that just voting in a decent candidate here or there won't make a damn bit of difference. If you have a decent candidate, that is.
Max