Consensus At Lawyerpoint 75
Seth Schoen writes "The
EFF has started
a weblog about the Broadcast Protection Discussion Group (BPDG), called "Consensus At Lawyerpoint". This is the EFF's first-ever blog, the brainchild of new EFF staffer Cory Doctorow of Boing Boing blogging fame. Consensus At Lawyerpoint covers the efforts of Hollywood -- with the complicity of consumer electronics and computer companies -- to impose
a new government mandate for copy controls in digital TV devices.
This mandate would outlaw tuner cards for digital HDTV, unless they included DRM (and prevented the end-user from getting
a cleartext recording). PVRs and VCRs might be allowed, but only
if all their outputs were encrypted. Since all TV broadcasting
in the U.S. is supposed to be digital by 2006, this could have an
enormous effect on technology and on the competition for
video standards in the marketplace. We hope that the blog format will help us get the word out and let interested people see what this group is up to." Interesting for a couple of reasons, both the subject matter (the beloved SSSCA/CBDTPA) and the method.
So? (Score:2, Insightful)
Well there are a few interesting problems (Score:2)
Our eyes and ears are devices that take analog input-- therefore for us to hear the sound or see the picture indicates that there is an analog hole which cannot be plugged through legislation.
All digital ? (Score:1)
> to be digital by 2006,
I think 'supposed' is the key. In the UK the govt. is aiming for 2008 to turn off the analogue masts, but noone really expects this to happen - there are *far* too many sets out there, both as primary and second sets, that can not receive digital TV.
Even the introduction of a 100 quid box to convert wont help, because it requires SCART (old TV's only have co-ax) and my grandma wont understand (a key test !).
So I dont think we need to worry too much on that front.
Re:All digital ? (Score:1)
Of course they'll just get laws passed making importation illegal. Then we'll have stories of intrepid TV card smugglers being gunned down at the border with their evil wares.
Whatever happened to the free market? Oh, we sold it to the entertainment industry.
Re:All digital ? (Score:1)
Re:All digital ? (Score:1)
They wont go under, someone will bail them out (but not the debts !) and make a killing, maybe mergeing with Telewest (no competion is allowed betwen then anyhow !).
Re:All digital ? (Score:3, Interesting)
> Murdoch have been able to make Digital TV stay
> afloat at all,
The big problem for most Digital providers is they spent a fortune on infrastructure, a fortune giving away STB's that are obsolete after a year and a fortune on rights to Sporting Events. However not enough people are prepared to pay enough to watch sporting events events they used to get for free to balance the books. Sky are also losing money fast, they plan to be the last man standing, then winding up the prices and presure. However this is doomed to failure.
To make Digital TV work, the providers need to provide new value added services that people are prepared to pay for. Games/Video/Music on Demand, High Speed Internet, and a truly Interactive (2Way) experience. The technology used by the existing Digital Providers can not provide these valued added services.
1) Terrestrial Digital (ITV Digital) is broadcast only; no return-path/uplink; no On-Demand Services; No Email, Web or other Internet service. Client Side PVR only.
2) Satellite (Sky) is broadcast only, si no return-path/uplink, so no On-Demand Services, No Email, Web or other Internet service. PVR on Client Side.
3) Cable looks good on the surface but it has a big road-block. Its network topology is a ring, the capacity is finite and this causes big contention problems, it also has the most expensive infrastructure to install.
4) xDSL, the new distruptive technology, it cheaper infrastructure than cable, includes a proper return path and supports IP; So true On-Demand and High-Speed Internet, the value added service to win.
I've seen the future and it's IP TV.
Re:All digital ? (Score:2, Interesting)
And US tv gives Jonathan Ross (Score:1)
i.e. when a US show is shown live in the UK (in this case the Oscars), the BBC needs to hire some mouthy guy to fill in all the gaps caused by the commercials in the US. Save us! Put less commercials on so we get to see less of Ross next time!
Re:All digital ? (Score:2)
I was just about to say the same thing about UK TV!
4 channels of schlok! Lets watch the news on 100% of our channels at the same time! And lets all have a breakfast show on at the same time! And lets make sure we have mentally retarded shows like "The Buzzcocks" on daily! And do I even need to mention Banzai!
I've never actually read so much on TV until I was over in the UK. Teletext helped keep the pain of nothing good on TV away!
It's hard to have a repeat when you only get 4 channels. And if you don't want dumbing down, try an educational channel! Where I live I get two over the air (just think, that's 50% of your total over the air programming): PBS and TVO. I got 0 educational programs in the UK.
And, the last straw that breaks the camel's back -- I don't pay by the year to get TV, so if it sucks, I'm only out the cost of the set (almost nil if your neighbour gives you their old one). In the UK I'm out over 100 pounds! That's the cost of a basic cable subscription here, and basic cable gets you 500% - 1000% more channels.
Fortunately, in my multi-satellite universe, if you look through enough guides, there's _always_ something new on. Hell, I'll watch FSTV for the rest of my life over the Beeb.
Re:All digital ? (Score:1)
Google (Score:3, Funny)
-
Press Conference. (Score:3, Interesting)
He drops the mouse to the floor, and silently, solemnly walks offstage...
In all seriousness, doesn't Microsoft have orders of magnitude more LIQUID CASH than the Movie/Record industries make per annum? Why don't they just crush these ninnies, remind them that their place is to entertain us, not create laws in which to enslave us.
Re:Press Conference. (Score:1)
Re:Press Conference. (Score:1)
(Costs more) != (Greater profit)
Notes from ECO 101: If something costs more fewer people will buy it. If sufficiently fewer people buy it your marginal profit becomes negative. Pair this with the impression that the product is somehow defective and the risk of a negative marginal profit becomes significant.
Because Microsoft Favors DRM For Strategic Reasons (Score:2)
Passing the SSSCA/whatever-they-call-it-now will legislate the Microsoft Monopoly into unassailability. Microsoft favors the legislation, unlike every other company in the industry, large and small alike.
If this bill passes, Microsoft would be able to pick and choose which token 'competitors' survive by deciding to whome the would and would not license the mandated technology
Re:Because Microsoft Favors DRM For Strategic Reas (Score:2)
That is certainly one possibility, but another one is that Microsoft (a company that is certainly *not* run by dummies) really does know that the value of their current OS monopoly cannot possibly grow at the rate that would continue to make them the dominant player they surely wish to be.
Recent MS moves actually seem more focused on becoming the kind of company that gets 1% or 2% of every transaction rather than one that gets 95% of a more limited pie. If that's the real strategy, they have no reason not to license their stuff to anybody else. Indeed, if licensing DRM technology substantially slows any effort in the Linux community to work around it, re-implement it, or come up with a competing standard, they would have to be silly not to do so.
Or even give it away, if the client use was associated with a revenue stream at the server end. (Indeed, that's *classic* MS behavior.) I personally also find a parable in the story of MS and its manipulation of the .DOC format.
Once upon a time, you couldn't do the .DOC format
if you weren't MS, then the licensing became less
and less restrictive as the format became more and
more prevalent. Last I checked, you could do anything with it you liked except (I believe) use it as a default file format for your software. This isn't really giving anything away, though, since Word is what 98% of mankind will use to edit any .DOC files. Plus, they had to do something once it became clear that XML and stylesheets really would be a serious contender to anything
that MS put out...so guess who leads the w3.org
efforts on XSL?
Re:Because Microsoft Favors DRM For Strategic Reas (Score:2)
I don't suppose you can back up that assertion with links to authoritative source(s), can you?
The References You Requested. (Score:2)
Yes.
The Relevant Patent [uspto.gov]
The Hollings bill S-2048 [linuxandmain.com]
A less authoritative but nevertheless informative article summarizing the issues [linuxandmain.com]
If you need more information and aren't just a troll, you can do any further research on your own. Google is your friend (except when censored by corporate interests such as the Scientologists, but that doesn't appear to have happened WRT this subject, yet).
Re:The References You Requested. (Score:2)
Whom would you prefer to own this particular bit of nasty IP? Microsoft (who has never initiated a patent-enforcement action to my knowledge)... or Sony?
Re:Press Conference. (Score:4, Funny)
> Bill Gates/Micheal Dell/Steve Jobs steps up to a podium. He holds out
> a plain white mouse in one hand. Then swiftly, he closes his hand upon
> it. The rodent makes a sharp, shrill sqeak that booms in the
> ampitheatre...
Steve Jobs would never do that! Mice are sacred to Mothra, due to the heroic antics of Shiro ("Mothra" 1961) and Kimi-chan ("Mothra 3: King Ghidora Attacks" 1998).
> In all seriousness, doesn't Microsoft have orders of magnitude more
> LIQUID CASH than the Movie/Record industries make per annum?
> Why don't they just crush these ninnies, remind them that their place
> is to entertain us, not create laws in which to enslave us.
Microsoft is now sitting on a DRMOS patent. Any law like the SSSCA would benefit them enormously by essentially giving their monopoly force of law. The one you can look to for help with this is Steve Jobs. When he accepted a Grammy for Apple this year, he told off the RIAA on their silly obsession over DRM. He said that 80% of the people would happily buy if they made their products convenient and affordable. Due to Apple's contributions to both the music and the movie industries, and his being the head of Pixar, Steve Jobs is the one man they might actually listen to.
If they don't listen to him, they can argue point with Typhoon #8, now equipped with a stinger. Yep, Mothra, nemesis of the MPAA and RIAA, is on her way to America, and this time, she's not alone. Baragon is quite upset to hear about our "war on terror" resulting in the destruction of wild life santuaries and "clean" coal being seen an a solution to our energy "problems". Godzilla has had it up to here ("here" being 60 meters up, his current height) with Microsoft, not to mention the US government's attempts at trivializing the use of nuclear weapons (that leaked memo). King Ghidora, well he's happy to fight with Godzilla and cause destruction.
"Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidora: Giant Monster All Out Attack" is due in American theatres possibly as early as this summer! Repent and shape up, for the end is pretty seriously nigh!
Whatever happend to? (Score:4, Insightful)
CSS on DVDs is one think (still evil if you ask me) but on brodcast TV when dose the madness end?
I can see my donation to the EFF was worth every cent.
Re:Whatever happend to? (Score:1)
Think about it. If the Lord of the Rings is broadcast for free in 1080i with an AC3 soundtrack and I can record it straight to my hard disk, what incentive do I have to go out and buy the DVD? The version I recorded off the airwaves is higher resolution, has a better soundtrack and best of all was free.
This will kill DVD sales of any movie that is broadcast on the public airwaves.
The only way the studio can afford to release the movie for broadcast is if they charge the broadcasters a huge fee, and commercials just don't pay enough to afford that.
The alternative is to allow them to encrypt the content sent out over our airwaves.
Re:Whatever happend to? (Score:2)
I don't even watch movies on TV anymore. Why should I put up with all that, when I can just rent the DVD for a few bucks instead?
Re:Whatever happend to? (Score:1)
How long will it be before we all just throw out our tvs and use the PC for DVD playback in our home theates? Get a SB Live! or other 5.1 sound card and hook up a digital projector. You could replace your home theater. Just imageine games on that...
Of course, that assumes that the restrictions on PCs don't make all of that illegal.
Re:Whatever happend to? (Score:2)
Thats a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
I don't think that TV needs to be a movie network.
Nor should it be a vecile to sell us shit.
In my mind the alternative is to let them show somthing else.
On "Lawyerpoint"... (Score:3, Funny)
"7 people brutally murdered at lawyerpoint. The suspect is still on the loose, assumed armed and litigious."
Re:On "Lawyerpoint"... (Score:2)
where Chandiler said somthing like:
As a kid I thought that gun point was a place.
And I couldn't figure out why people would keep going there. You'd here about people getting robbed, raped and killed at gun point.
For some interesting essays ... (Score:1, Informative)
There is nothing llike... (Score:4, Interesting)
At the moment it is in a balance in that people who invent have a large incentive to make an enormous amount of money but will that always be so?
Re:There is nothing llike... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:There is nothing llike... (Score:2)
Re:blog? (Score:2)
No this isn;t (Score:2, Insightful)
A blog is a lengthy archive of self-obsessed opinion compiled and posted on the web by self-regarding people who have no other media outlet, and read by a very few others, mostly equally sad bloggers themselves. They operate on the theory that with enough howl-around feedback from each other they can claim an enormous readership and influence.
"We hope that the blog format will help us get the word out and let interested people see what
this group is up to."
Not bloody likely, mate. Why don't you get in a newspaper or on television, if you want real people to see what you are up to, and not just internet types with nothing better to read at the moment.
Basically - all blogs are a total pile of bullshit, almost without exception.
Re:No this isn;t (Score:2)
Re:No this isn;t (Score:2)
Re:HA (Score:2)
Carnvour has pointed out to us your post to
We know where you live
We know your ISP
We know which porn site you visited last night
We know where your parents live
We have a large number of Tanks that can role over your house, see the beta testing Isreal is performing for us in Bethlehem
We own Congress
Yours, [Name witheld] MSCIA
Good sci-fi author, good blog author? (Score:1)
The story is about a country boy working in a big corporation (File-Agator) in a world where corporations (Microsoft, literally) own cities and wage war on each other. The boy gets bumped up the corporate ladder on the whim of the CEO and stuff happens (don't want to ruin the story
I quite enjoyed the story and had a good laugh at the ending so I would say that this bodes well for the content of the blog.
Am I just naļve? (Score:4, Interesting)
But we're hitting a point here where I find it literally incredible that anyone capable of getting him/her self elected into the legislative branch can possibly not realize what's going on. Is it just me? Is this issue tougher to understand than I think? Do I just think the injustice is so obvious because most people on
My one hope has been that if the demands of the entertainment industry got preposterous enough, someone would "catch on," the light bulb would go off, etc. But that hope is rapidly being crushed. I'm beginning to think that we've already lost, and all the valiant, worthy efforts of the EFF won't end up mattering a tinker's damn.
Re:Am I just naļve? (Score:1)
I don't think it is that hard to understand. The entertainment industry offers bribes\b\b\b\b\b\b donations to US Legislators [opensecrets.org] of about $40M USD in 2000. That works out to an average donation of about $70,000 USD, or more than I make in a year.
Taking that into consideration, I wouldn't blame it on stupidity or evil, but greed.
what I don't get... (Score:3, Interesting)
All extremely confusing (Score:1)
Instead, it appears that they want to remove value. I don't see how this can work.
Here in Hawaii we have digital cable. But MOST subscribers refuse to get it because of the cost (hawaii has terrible economy). When 2006 rolls around are they going to turn off normal cable? If they do that... will my TV simply stop working period? If that happens... I'll gladly smash my TV into thousands of pieces and ship it to hollywood.
But, as another poster pointed out... this can be pretty easily defeated. Signal Processing algorithms can do AMAZING things in cleaning up recorded data. Thus... to *rip* a digital signal all you would need to do is point a camera or microphone (in the case of audio) and capture the material. Then apply filters to remove the noise and scan lines and have a very very good quality reproduction.
Are these nitwits forgetting that we really don't care about PERFECT playback? We're more than happy to settle on ANY playback - otherwise VCR's wouldn't have been popular.
So that brings up the next point... at what point will they make designing software algorithms illegal without a license? When will they force us to submit our source code to a goverment entity to ensure that the source can't be used to record signals?
Don't throw out your old electronics.... they could become very very useful.
Re:All extremely confusing (Score:2, Interesting)
I've got a collection of old VHS tapes from way back. Old shows I loved, old footage I wanted to preserve, and so on. I've undertaken a project to rip them all, clean them, and put them on VCD so that I can still watch them (I hope!) when the hardware incompatability act of 2006 rolls around. I want to make sure there's old school entertainment around for my future kids so they don't get completely stranded in the WTO-generated cultural wasteland I think I see on the horizon.
It's probably illegal. I don't share the files, I don't publicly broadcast the files, I don't sell copies of the CDs, but I expect it's illegal anyway, or will be soon enough.
Screw 'em. I prefer to think of it as time-shifting on a transgenerational scale.
GMFTatsujin
Re:All extremely confusing (Score:1)
How does mandating HDTV by 2006 make your VHS tapes not play in your VCR on your TV?
Re:All extremely confusing (Score:1)
I'm sure the Con will figure out a way though.
Actually, I'm really working to undo all that nasty magnetic degredation and store my vids on a more durable medium. For the apocalypse.
PREPARE...
GMFTatsujin
Japan, Taiwan and Korea rejoice! (Score:2, Insightful)
Case in point, PGP. How many people out there used the "legal" crippled version, and how many just downloaded the international version that worked as it was intended?
I'm thinking any forced DRM attempt is quite simply going to fail, and will take a good bite out of what little consumer confidence is left in the high-tech sector.
Digital TV doesn't excite me. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd be okay with royalty extortion, except they're trying to control what I do with the content. Well, I have a piece of advice for them. The minute that a TV show becomes too hard to watch because I refuse to be anchored to my TV day and night is the minute that I stop watching TV. I have plenty of things I could be off doing, TV is more of a luxury than anything else.
How do they seriously expect people to adopt Digital TV over Analog TV when they don't get the same priveledges they are used to? Hell, the reason I don't have Digital Cable right now is that my home-brew PVR can't work with it!
Re:Digital TV doesn't excite me. (Score:1)
For me, the minute that a TV show becomes intelligent, meaningful, and engaging enough for me to spend an hour watching it is the minute I start watching TV again.