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The Internet Your Rights Online

Man Named "Shell" Loses Domain To Oil Giant 51

Posted by timothy from the spoiled-brats-with-lawyers dept.
angkor writes: "'A German court has ruled that oil giant Shell has more right to the www.shell.de internet domain name than an individual named Shell who had already registered the name.' It's like the old saying: your name may be McDonald, but you can't open a restaurant named McDonalds ..."
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Man Named "Shell" Loses Domain To Oil Giant More

Man Named "Shell" Loses Domain To Oil Giant

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  • "It's like the old saying: your name may be McDonald, but you can't open a restaurant named McDonalds ..."
    This guy wasn't trying to sell oil or gasoline. He "used shell.de as the homepage for a translation and publicity business."
    This just shows just how much more influence big companies have over governments than the rest of us - no matter what government.

    • This guy wasn't trying to sell oil or gasoline.

      Competition is not a factor in trademark dilution.

      He 'used shell.de as the homepage for a translation and publicity business.'

      Using the mark for business purposes does.

      This just shows just how much more influence big companies have over governments than the rest of us - no matter what government.

      Only if you use the mark for commercial purposes. I don't agree with trademark dilution law, but it is within the government's right to regulate commerce.

      • is a very subjective issue

        Just how many companies are there called Acme? Several...and they're all in different types of businesses. I don't know how the laws work in Germany, but in the U.S., trademark dilution applies to disputes within the same industry.

        If you recall the whole Diablo game dispute, Blizzard had to register the trademark for not only the game but for the movie as well.

        • Just how many companies are there called Acme? Several...and they're all in different types of businesses. I don't know how the laws work in Germany, but in the U.S., trademark dilution applies to disputes within the same industry.

          I don't know Germany either, but:

          The Federal Trademark Dilution Act of 1995, which protects famous marks from uses that dilute their distinctiveness, even in the absence of any likelihood of confusion or competition, became effective on January 16, 1996. -
          LADAS & PARRY [ladas.com]

          If you recall the whole Diablo game dispute, Blizzard had to register the trademark for not only the game but for the movie as well.

          You're talking about a different trademark law. Perhaps the mark used by Blizzard was not "famous", or perhaps the lawyers just screwed them over by giving them bad advice to make more money. Under the FTDA of 1995, you don't even have to register your trademark at all.

    • >This just shows just how much more influence big >companies have over governments than the rest of >us - no matter what government.

      And it just shows how much more power over us the government has than anyone else also.

      Scott

  • Or the other old saying... (Score:4, Funny)

    by ConceptJunkie ( 24823 ) on Monday November 26, 2001 @09:24AM (#2613073) Homepage Journal
    It's like that other old saying:

    Whoever has the most money gets the most rights.

  • But what do people want? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aozilla ( 133143 ) on Monday November 26, 2001 @09:40AM (#2613134) Homepage

    The domain name system is broken. The only way things like this are going to stop is to stop using the domain name system for websites. That's not what it was meant to be used for anyway.

    The .us allowing SLD names is just going to make matters worse. The way it stands, people generally use .us names to point to machines, not web sites, and even when they do use them for web sites, it's a fairly non-ambiguous name (serv1.shell.nyc.ny.us). The internet may be free, but big business has taken over the domain name system. If you don't want to play by their rules, get a nice third level domain for free from one of the many places offering them, such as dhs.org, and say the extra 4 characters next time you tell someone your website. Or perhaps even better (until we fix browsers to properly use DNS records), use a web forwarding service. dhs.org has one of those too.

    • If you don't want to play by their rules, get a nice third level domain for free from one of the many places offering them, such as dhs.org, and say the extra 4 characters next time you tell someone your website. Or perhaps even better (until we fix browsers to properly use DNS records), use a web forwarding service. dhs.org has one of those too.
      ...and rely on them not to change their policy, go bankrupt or whatsoever to make you change your URL on all your documents. Lifetime-E-Mail-address or -URL is only possible with something you own, i.e. your own domain name!

      ALeX

      • ...and rely on them not to change their policy, go bankrupt or whatsoever to make you change your URL on all your documents. Lifetime-E-Mail-address or -URL is only possible with something you own, i.e. your own domain name!

        I hate to break it to you, but you can't get "your own domain name". From the stories I've been reading, it seems a lot more likely to lose your domain name because of ICANN than because of DHS.org.

        As for changing your documents, you shouldn't be writing the names of machines on your documents. When you pick a webforwarding service, you should certainly be picking one which is likely to stay in business forever. The problem with webforwarding is that it relies on the domain name system in the first place. This is what I'm talking about when I say that the DNS system is broken.


        • I hate to break it to you, but you can't get "your own domain name". From the stories I've been reading, it seems a lot more likely to lose your domain name because of ICANN than because of DHS.org.

          How come (--verbose, please)? I got my "own" Domain-Name and I have no reason to think it'll change during my lifetime.


          As for picking a forwarding service that is likely to stay in business forever: HOW do you decide that? I picked a few before having my own domain name. I also ran one. It is broken now that I am no longer with the company who owns the domain name. As for not writing names of machines on paper, what else should I write on paper: For a recent e-mail-address, please search for "Alexander Klink" on an internet search engine of your choice (gee, I can't even say google here!). OK, that works, but it sure looks ugly...


          Greetings,
          ALeX

    • FreeDNS is the way to go now. BTW, did we win
      www.slashdot.geek?

      --Pi
  • Actually, if my intellectual property memory serves, the McDonald (or MacDonald) clan holds a fair preexisting claim to the "McDonalds" name. There was a small restaurant somewhere in the UK that the fast food chain wanted shut down until the clan suggested they'd better not test the name ownership in court.

    But, heck, that could all be a pretty good urban legend.
  • Are there really that many people who, when looking for a corporation's web page, just type in the name of the corporation + a .com?

    Most of the time I try that I get burned and have to go use a search engine anyway.

    • I think you'd be utterly amazed. Anyone I know that isn't deeply computer savvy does just that. And heaven help them if it points to a different company. ``I didn't know that foo.com did contract assassination, too! I thought they were just a bakery!''.

      And really, sometimes the search engine doesn't help, either. Until I saw multiple people do it, I always thought people inputting company.com into an engine's search field was just a joke. And then they get confused again. ``Looking for Foo Baking online doesn't work. I put foo.com into Google, and it only brought up links to foo.com, and at the store they told me it was foo-bakers.com.''
      • Bah, why take the time to go to Google and search for the company's name when chances are it is company.com? If it isn't then go do a search on a search engine, and drop the .com part.

        To show my tech savvy-ness, I'll make the following analogy:
        Think of it like a cache, its quick to go to company.com - only one page load instead of at least three, one to the search page, one to get results, one to load the page you want. If you're right more than one third of the time, and you probably will be, you get a time benefit. If you're wrong, well, you've got a 33% increase to load this page once, and then can remember the URL for next time. But as long as you're not wrong more than 2/3 of the time, you still see improvement.*

        *This of course assumes similar page load times, your milage may vary, but you should get the point.

  • These days it seems that in a courtroom a corporation has more rights than an individual. Scary.

  • The golden rule seems to apply (Score:3, Insightful)

    by OeLeWaPpErKe ( 412765 ) on Monday November 26, 2001 @11:20AM (#2613643) Homepage
    This may be a case of domain squatting

    When the Anglo-Dutch oil company tried to register shell.de as its website in May 1996, it discovered the name belonged to a firm that bought famous trade names and sold them on.

    On the other hand ...

    "The judge said everyone had the right to a website in their name, regardless of whether it was for business or personal use."

    However, this was meaningless if there was such a large gap between two interests claiming the name.

    The name Shell was well known, the judge said, and most customers would expect to find the firm's website at shell.de, not that of the individual.

    I hate to say it but this does sound as a valid point ...
    Isn't using www.AndreasShell.de or www.FamilyShell.de a fair compromise between the two parties ? This is probably what the judge hopes to accomplish ...
    • The name Shell was well known, the judge said, and most customers would expect to find the firm's website at shell.de, not that of the individual.

      So, now we bow to what customers want, not citizens, or people in general? I'm sure that members of this man's family would expect his site to be here. I'm also sure that people going to www.whitehouse.com aren't expecting what they get either. Does that mean we have to take it away? Supposedly, individuals have the same rights as corporations, not less.
    • Well, why couldn't Shell use www.shell-oil.de?
    • Isn't using www.AndreasShell.de or www.FamilyShell.de a fair compromise between the two parties ?

      Well... isn't www.ShellOil.de or
      www.ShellEnergy.de something like that good enough
      for the corp?

      I don't know if I could side with a squatter:
      I think I'd rather see a someone with a genuine
      interest in the domain name get it. But still,
      if you think that URLs aren't subject to trademark, don't you have to side with whoever bought it first (even for odious reasons)?

      Hmmm. Overall, I think I agree that this isn't
      a clearcut evil case.

      --Weston
  • Whats the possibility a domain name company would tell them NO, we wont give up the name. Do they have control over the registers to take it and make nameservers forget the domain.?

    If they didnt have that much power, some registar could just tell them to kiss off. but i doubt that would be likely
  • I'd expect to see Shell's website at www.shell.com, but maybe that's just me.
    • Shell IS at www.shell.com, but they are an international conglomerate, made up of many smaller companies opperating in different nations. They may want www.shell.de for their Shell Oil Germany or something.
      • Yes, I'm well aware of that, however, the defacto is .com regardless of what country you're in. I have plenty of over seas friends who all go to a .com first until they find a .nl or .uk or .de for their respective countries (if they even have one)
      • Also, if you've read the article, someone makes the comment of where they'd expect to find Shell's website. The answer to that is www.shell.com first and foremost, thus my initial comment on the matter.
      • Nah, given that Shell is a big company any German sites should be in *.de.shell.com. :)

        Or for webpages relegated to http://www.shell.com/germany/

        Isn't that what really happens IRL?

        Link.

  • Surprised? Not Really (Score:2, Informative)

    by A5WKS24 ( 443235 )
    In 1994, Uzi Nissan registered the domain name www.nissan.com for his Nissan Computer Corporation.

    In 1995, the Nissan Motor Company noticed that this "Internet" thingy was catching on and they may as well jump on too. Upon attempting to register the obvious domain, they found Uzi had beaten them to it.

    Around 2000, the Nissan Motor Company commenced legal proceedings. Read Uzi's story here [ncchelp.org].

    So far, Uzi still has control of the domain name, but for how long remains to be seen.

    The moral of this story? Be careful to ensure that when you register your surname as a domain name that it isn't already a business name. Confused yet?

  • It's no surprise that the courts would favor the corps. in these web cases, because they've been favoring the corps. in other name-ownership cases for years.

    Ever hear of 'Taylor California Cellars' wine, or other Taylor wines? Originally, the name came from a family winery in NY state, but years ago the head of the family sold the name 'Taylor' off to some big conglomerate. Years later, when a grandson of this guy put labels on his own wineries' wine, with 'Walter S. Taylor proprietor' or some such innocuous tag in the small print, the conglomerate sued him! And the courts agreed with the big company, several times.

    Since then, Walter [bullyhill.com] just blacks out his name on the labels... "Walter S. ------" (or did... seems Walter S. passed away this year).

    Other such cases exist, I'm sure, as does the Nissan, Shell and other examples above.Moral: it might pay to get a serious trademark registered if you really want a domain name, but in the end, if a big company wants it, you're screwed.

  • ... is a site with a interface paradigm really different from what you usually see in the web. There's be a box into which you typed
    your commands -- so you could type any command you wanted instead of having to search around the page
    for something to click on. Instead of searching
    on the page for a text field, you'd just type somethign like "grep -i product_I_seek amazon.com" or what have you. Instead of one-click shopping, we have one-line shopping: "buy --cust_id=415666 --pin=123456 --item=37002". We'd get things done a lot faster. Maybe this'd become a popular interface method, and we could open source this thing, and people could come up with their own versions. Yeah. Yeah. Also, no one would confuse
    it with the oil company site.

    (It's late friday night, I'm snowed in, I'm NOT in Costa Rica, I'm upset about it, and so I'm a little punchy)

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