A Distorted Mirror: Automatic, Real-Time Web Parodies 152
Citing the DMCA, the World Trade Organization complained to Verio, the upstream provider of parody site gatt.org, a site we've mentioned before which jabs at the aims and methods of GATT and the WTO. Verio notified domain holder Jonathan Prince of the complaint, and asked Prince to remove any copyrighted materials from the site. The site appears intact for now, but read on to learn about the interesting software the complaint has spawned -- perhaps this isn't what the WTO had in mind.
As Andrew Bichlbaum writes: "The WTO could well have stepped on a hornets' nest. To counter the attack, Gatt.org managers The Yes Men have released a piece of open-source 'parodyware' that will 'forever make this kind of censorship obsolete. ... Using this software, it takes five minutes to set up a convincing, personalized, evolving parody of the WTO.org website, or any other website of your choice ... All you need is a place to put it -- say, WTOO.org, WorldTradeOrg.com, whatever.'"
On a serious note, though, (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1)
Since when has the net been anything more (or less)?
Fighting fire with fire makes the whole world warm. (and cozy)
Only (Score:1, Funny)
Only a whore charges for a look and a feel.
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1)
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1)
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1)
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1)
No, the real question is, does any IP holder have enough time to sue everybody who creates a parody site using this sort of automation, assuming a few people cared enough to put a concerted effort behind creating parody-clones?.
The message sent by the creation of this software is that, if IP holders choose to engage in legal harassment, there are ways that the few people who care can make an even bigger nuisance, without recourse to lawyers.
Even if the product of the software is not funny, the concept is both funny (in its ironic justice of web harassment traded for legal harassment) and relevant to the politics of the web.
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:2, Interesting)
No. First, the WTO isn't a corporation, it's an association of governments, therefore, it is arguable that they can't even own copyrights except in the capacity of a trustee for their citizens.
Second, there has to be copyrighted material on the site to the extent that it falls outside the "fair-use" doctrine, which, in the case of parody, is a broad sword, indeed. I haven't heard any news about Microsoft getting ready to sue the owner of www.fuckmicrosoft.com, even though the graphics on the site are damn near a direct knockoff of microsoft.com
Third, don't confuse "look and feel" with copyright
Three words
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:1)
Re:On a serious note, though, (Score:2)
Parody and impersonation is not forbidden by trademark and copyright law! Just check out those little peeing Calvin stickers!
Actually, those are probably illegal, or at least infringing. It's just that they're damn near impossible to get rid of.
Support the DDA! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Support the DDA! (Score:2, Insightful)
using a well-known term in a deliberate attempt
to confuse people. Free speech and parody are
one thing, fraud is something else. When you're
trying hard and succeeding in fooling people
about your identity and motives, that crosses
the line into fraud.
Re:Support the DDA! (Score:4, Insightful)
It was established some time ago that registering a trademark in order to place a site criticizing the trademark's owner is not "bad faith."
The WTO accused these folks of "harvesting" email addresses, but doesn't say what method they used...according to the site, the only method they used to "harvest" addresses was some "mailto:" links. WTO is annoyed by the mockery and is interpreting the facts to suit themselves.
Computerworld ran an article [computerworld.com] on this following WTO's party line on this issue so slavishly as to stretch anyone's definition of journalistic ethics. Most interesting is this passage:
The fake WTO site changed its look this afternoon so that it no longer exactly resembles the real WTO Web site.
Even so, the phony site contains so many references to the WTO that some search engines are directing people to it instead of to the official site. A search of AltaVista using the keyword WTO returns www.gatt.org in fifth place.
So, according to the WTO and to an incompetent journalist at Computerworld, establishing an anti-WTO site that shows up fifth in search engines is tantamount to site-jacking!!
Is this the type of reasoning that you wish to defend?
Re:Support the DDA! (Score:1)
Re:Support the DDA! (Score:1)
Proof that slashcode was not written by Windows users
Links don't work (Score:1, Offtopic)
Does anyone have a link to a (non-distorted) mirror?
What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1, Interesting)
I know slashdot editors think everything done by corporations somehow tramples on my rights, but I just don't see the connection here.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:4, Insightful)
The World Trade Organization is not an ordinary corporation; it's an international UN organization.
Imagine if the Red Cross wanted people to take down websites complaining about people who were infected by HIV via blood transfusions. Get it?
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1, Insightful)
That does not significantly change the remedies available to the WTO. It appears to me that the WTO would have a good case to make.
The gatt.org site is not a 'parody' site, it is deliberately passing itself off as the official WTO site. It is intentionally deceiving the readers. As a result the WTO would appear to have many remedies available, the copyright on its logos, 'passing off' and libel.
These guys deserve everything that is comming to them. Deceit and lies are not legitimate means of protest. I don't see why we should be leaping to protect these idiots. Its like getting excited when people who go to demonstrations to get arrested get arrested and go to jail. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Amongst the statements on the site are:
Much has been made lately of IBM's participation in the Holocaust. Indeed, IBM proactively and creatively helped the Nazis identify all of Germany's Jews, which in turn made possible the biggest slaughter of all time.
Freedom of speech is not the freedom to impersonate others. The gatt.org site is a censorship site, not a freedom of speech site, its explicit intention is to deny the WTO the right to speak for themselves by putting words into their mouth.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1)
Deceit and lies are not legitimate means of protest.
And I suppose the people that founded the USA never told a lie (the cherry tree legend not withstanding). Why is lying not a legitimate form of protest? It seems to be a legitimate form of political organisations like the WTO.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why should anyone believe someone who is obviously telling lies? How do you know the truth from the lies?
One of the reasons I have no time for the anti-WTO protestors is that they appear to have no idea what they are protesting about. They completely fail to set out a coherent set of political goals or a strategy to achieve them.
For example amongst the protestors are people complaining that the third world is paid too little for the goods they export to the US and others who are complaining about the loss of US jobs. Denying access to the US markets is not going to help the developing world.
I don't see many of the anti-WTO protestors at the conferences trying to do something positive for the third world. Equally it is a bit odd being lectured on the evils of global capitalism by some teenager wearing a $150 pair of Nike trainers.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2)
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Trade is not inevitably exploitation. You sound like the trotskyites used to.
I get the feeling that people want to have opinions on this subject that are simple, easy and comforting. Their real demands have nothing to do with trade, they are demanding that life be as simplistic as their ideology.
I find it interesting that both the posts I have made so far have been moderated up as 'Insightful', then down as 'flamebait' and 'offtopic'. The topic is the gatt.org site so the person who modded me offtopic is simply disagreeing. As for flamebait, it seems that these people don't like hearing any disagreements.
That could explain why they have to create their own WTO site.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1)
So I ask you, how much trade between the USA and third world nations is exploitive and how much is not? I'd say quite a bit does not give the people employed fair benefits and compensation. This prevents the third world nation from advancing its people to first world nation status.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1)
The major job of the WTO is to in some way control and or direct capitalism. The protests such as Seattle give me dejavu of reading about the Communist revolution in Russia at the beginning of last century. All those Marxist / socialist stereotypes that unfortunatly (but not IMO unfairly) seem to be branded on most of the protestors really manages overshadow the 'issues' that need to be protested!
Whoa, a little OT there, ahh screw it.
./
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2)
Unfortunately, this misconception is quite common.
You are confusing persons with people. The impact of the course that globalization is being directed along affects many different people in many different ways. When it hurts people, they protest. When it hurts people in different ways for different reasons, they usually protest about the problem that is relevant to them. Naturally, this means people protesting for different reasons, and some of them might be at odds with the reasons other people oppose globalization's current direction. Big Fat Hairy Deal! Why would you expect anything else - let alone try to use this as some kind of reason to dismiss their problems or concerns?!?
I don't understand why the vast range of issues regarding globalization's current course makes them somehow less legitimate than the kind of highly organised and coherrent campaign that only insincere PR organisations are capible of.
Many people have extremely coherrent set of political goals, strategy, etc. That different people are different, such that all that diversity results in a diverse rather than single-minded "movement" seems an absurd reason to dismiss all those people.
And it's exactly the same argument that MS is making against Linux, and MS's argument is just as silly. Ok ok, it's not silly, there is real merit to the arg, but there is more merit to the counter arg - as demonsrated by Linux and OSS now being "THE threat" to MS.
People are different. Therefore, if a mass of people are genuinely sincere, it would be quite surprising (and quite suspicious) if they were all of one mind, all with the exactly the same narrowly defined goal. But Linux works. And Windows wouldn't work if MS didn't pay it's people to make it.
Equally it is a bit odd being lectured on the evils of global capitalism by some teenager wearing a $150 pair of Nike trainers.
In my experience (which might not apply here but I suspect it does), statements such as this are almost always vacant excuses to rationalize the dismissal of a point of view (without listening), in such a way that you don't have to question your own rationality.
For example:
1) How do you know he was wearing $150 nike trainers? I have a pair of nike trainers that were purchased directly from sweatshop workers for fair price. (I never wear them cause nike wouldn't know style if it bit them on the nose, they were a gift). Or did you assume that since you didn't agree with him, he must be an ignorant hypocrite to be dismissed?
2) Did you pay enough attention to the lecture on the evils of global capitalism to find out if the particular evils that this particular teenager objected to, did, in fact, require that he not wear nike for some reason? Or did you just assume that since you didn't want to agree with him, he must be an ignorant hypocrite?
3) How do you know that he didn't aquire the shoes before he aquired his opinion on global capitalism? If they're as evil as you seem to think he should think they are, then he should at least get some wear out of them now that he's got them.
4) Do you know that he purchased the shoes? Is it possible that his grandmother, trying really hard to grok past the generation barrier, gave them to him as a gift and he feels that telling you about his views on capitalism is a better thing to do about it than to reject his grandmother's gift?
Bottom line, (which may or may not apply to you, but certainly applies to a lot of people out there), finding flimsy reasons to dismiss an opinion you do not like, is not sufficient for anyone who likes to think of themselves as a rational being. But that's a great thing about having higher cognitive functions - you can rationalise away anything you do, and you fall for your fanciful "reasoning" every time
As for me, I'm quite happy being irrational
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2)
The WTO is only going on the basis of copyright: it's not basing its claim on passing off or trademark laws.
However, the objectionable statement you quote is:
I read the same statement, and took it as a straightforward parody.
It's not, however, technically deceitful. IBM technology did help the Nazis identify Jews, and assisted them in the Holocaust. Read this. [cmht.com]
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2)
What I said is that the WTO would have a good case according to three causes of action.
I read the same statement, and took it as a straightforward parody
I don't think that the Holocaust is a legitimate subject for that type of treatment. In effect it is accusing IBM of being complicit in Genocide. I don't find that type of accusation amusing.
It is one thing to make that type of accusation under your own name, quite a different thing to make it under the pretense of being someone else. People have the right to make themselves look stupid. It is quite a different thing to put words into someone else's mouth to make them look stupid.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2)
You're right, it's not amusing. It is however a reasonable accusation, and you don't have to go any further than the L.A. Times to find it.
Man, this is old news. Get with it.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Its not trademarked
2. Its satire which has a special place in copyright law
3. Its political speech. The WTO are trying to censor legitimate protest at their attempts to screw the planet.
The offence is NOT about freedom of expression (Score:2, Insightful)
That's trademarked. You can see it on the WTO website [wto.org], and they have a nice (specific) notice [wto.org] clearly indicating it is theirs.
I'm all for parody. But there is no need for parody to make use of actual trademark symbols, or even trademarked phrases. It is much more funny, and more clever besides. Here's one example [suck.com], in case you don't already know what I mean.
It's quite clear to me that the Yes Men are more interested in pissing off the WTO than in parody itself. This is not itself a crime, but replicating trademarks like that tends to fool people [nytimes.com] rather than to get the point across. The WTO has a legitimate complaint here.Trademark law is meant to protect consumers, not businesses, and (for once) the WTO seems to be using it completely legitimately. If the Yes Men aren't deliberately trying to fool the very people they are self-righteously trying to protect from the corporations, they should have no problem with getting off their duffs and altering the trademarked symbols on their website.
Re:The offence is NOT about freedom of expression (Score:1)
This is no different - parodies are allowed to use the logos and other publicly available material of the subject of the parody...
Re:The offence is NOT about freedom of expression (Score:1)
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Insightful)
If i post a bunch of messages, claiming to be you, and then say, "Well, it's satire -- people should have been able to understand that the real Alan Cox wouldn't have said such crazy stuff," that's no defense, and it's fraud.
If the site was obviously a parody, i'd support them. But it's not, and i don't.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:1)
Random example from the www.gatt.org [gatt.org] site:
"Modern" free-market theory, in which goods must be free to travel unhindered, is little changed from the teachings of Adam Smith and David Ricardo, who wrote two hundred years ago, in Britain, under conditions entirely different from those of the present. There is still no statistical reason to believe that this theory works, but corporations have many selfish economic reasons to make it the law.
English is not your first language, then?
Re:Huh? (Score:2, Funny)
He's probably American
--- ---
(The differently-humoured please note: That was a JOKE people, no need to take it personally or flame off about it. As it happens, I also live in the USA. And I feel somewhat depressed that I should feel like I should probably write this kind of disclaimer on
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1)
Nice try, but it [gatt.org] actually looks nothing like the "real thing" [wto.org].I think I could tell the two apart even if I was quite a large distance from my monitor.Perhaps by the "real thing" you meant "a professionally produced website".If so I agree; they've done a good job.
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:1)
(Actually, it would seem that Alan is starting to take an active position on Internet / Digital rights - and that he's becoming more of an obsessive /. reader than I am!)
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2)
So *that's* why he turned over 2.4 maintenance to someone else; it was going to interfere with his
"The WTO are trying to censor" (Score:2)
Now, who would suggest that there is not a single WTO-member government that favors legitimate protest to the degree of dissenting from this action and thus removing the complete concensus of member governments which is the WTO's only authorization to act? Does every single government favor surrendering the rights of its people in the name of "free" trade? Preposterous!
If that's the case then "free" is just a cover word for tyranny - and Microsoft has every reason to sound the alarm at the rise of "free" software....
Re:"The WTO are trying to censor" (Score:3, Insightful)
Under those circumstances it is much more likely that everyone will agree rather than rock the boat.
Protesting about things which, after all, rarely affect the politicians' lives, for no gain in their own elections while causing a lot of irritation in their working lives is just not something humans of the sort that enter politics do.
Also remember how much the various protests have affected the lives of those at the meetings: not at all. With layers of armed guards around them, why should the WTO people care about the protesters? That leaves the WTO to only sort out the publication aspects of protest (the web, newspapers, books etc.) in order for everyone involved to have a quiet life, which is mainly what venal people like politicians really want.
TWW
Re:What does this have to do with My Rights?? (Score:2, Funny)
/.ed (Score:1)
Great, now it's
Re:/.ed (Score:1)
yesiwill-1.0.tar.gz [meatplow.com]
yesiwill-1.0.zip [meatplow.com]
Long Live SarcasmMIRROR (Score:2, Informative)
Please be nice, because I'm only on cable. Grab the files here [websoup.net].
Here are mirrors: (Score:3, Informative)
http://detritus/projects/yesiwill [detritus.net]
Let's see how well they survive a slashdotting.
Re:Here are mirrors: (Score:2)
http://saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com/yesiwill/index .html [saintaardv...rpeted.com]
Google whoring (Score:2)
I can feel not-guilty about posting this, karmacap boy that I am. :)
Slashdot is (Score:4, Funny)
Distorted mirrors (Score:1)
Think before you mod: is it really offtopic..?
beyond the golden parachute (Score:5, Interesting)
The presentation, which Harper's describes as "well-received", was subsequently praised by the MC on three seperate occasions that day.
(I want to be a yes man :)
Lack of primary source (Score:1, Interesting)
As far as I can tell from this article, we have been offered absolutely no evidence that the WTO has in fact complained, using the DMCA or any other tool.
Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:1, Funny)
And this is different from normal SlashDot HOW???
woof.
Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:1)
hehehe, couldn't have done it better myself.
Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:2)
Wow
Back to my k-r4d perl h4x1ng...
Re:Reminds me of the Dialectizer... (Score:1)
Now, that's an idea!
He he he (Score:2)
"The site appears intact for now, but read on to learn about the interesting software the complaint has spawned -- perhaps this isn't what the WTO had in mind."
The WTO has nothing to fear... the
Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:2)
From the Pornolized version of Slashdot:
--------------
the_code_poet asks: "I'm a lead developer for a software development company, and one of my responsibilities has been writing an installer for our product (of which Linux is one of the titty fucking enters). In keeping with UNIX tradition, the cuntlapping installer is written in shell (thrusts
--------------
That is freaking beautiful
Now, how long until the trolls start posting nasty versions of stuff in jest?
There's always the Pornolized Christian Coalition site [pornolize.com] for extra giggles.
Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:1)
The Windows XP product page made me spew my coffee!!
Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:1)
Ohmigosh, you've gotta see the Lab Report page: Here It Be [pornolize.com].
Long live parody site generation engines!
Re:Roll-your-own "Parody" site here... (Score:1)
For God's sake MODERATORS PLEASE MOD PARENT UP!
"10% Gangbangs "Pimp Mastah" To Support "Butplug" Your Christian "Son of a whore" Coalition."
"Simply complete the unclefucking form below and sign up for totally clean FreedomISP service."
"ACTIONALERTS directly from Christian "Ass-stitcher" Coalition's sucking team on CapitolHill"
That last one echoes sentiments I've had for a long, long time now...
Web hosting by geeks, for geeks. Now starting at $4/month (USD)! [trilucid.com]
Yes, this is my protest to the sig char limit
... (Score:2, Informative)
SlashPorn! (Score:1)
Sample of installation; mirror (Score:2)
I made a parody, visit here [unc.edu] to see (it probably won't be up too long...). Finally, you can also get the code in the directory mentioned above, if you are having trouble finding a mirror. Retrieve yesiwill-1.0.tar.gz
Two-Timed by Slashdot (Score:2, Interesting)
"2001-11-15 16:39:40 WTO Tells ISP: Remove Satire Web Site (articles,news) (rejected)"
... but now it appears under another's name. All the good lovin' I gave you, Slashdot, and how you are in another's arms!
For the satire impared, let me say it's not such a big deal. A tiny deal, not a big deal.
Re:Two-Timed by Slashdot (Score:1)
this is very scary.... (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm reading the website... and now I am wondering is it defaced or it's the real thing? I mean I never really bothered with all that WTO stuff but when I read (on the front page):
>Brazilian AIDS drugs a sure path to economic sickness
>Today, however, another Holocaust is taking place: it goes by the name of "distrust of big business," and it is every bit as terrible as the last.
>Qatar saves the day Responding to the selfish and dangerous actions of special-interest forces at recent free-trade summits, the kingdom of Qatar has generously offered to host the next WTO Ministerial. In Qatar, the sort of lobbying seen in Seattle, Quebec, Davos, Prague, Barcelona, and elsewhere is strictly illegal and heavily punished,
I mean... what the hell?? is that all real? I mean I'm used to lying politician, backstabbing authority figures, and all that stuff, but I mean, putting such things on a front page has really shocked me, I can't beleive people can be that openly materialistic and use historic stuff and lie without raising a LOT of opposition...
Especially the last part "we don't value your opinion, saying you dislike what we are working on is illegal so we will host our "democratic" process in a place you'll get shot in the head if you disagree"... wow... now I see why people are so upset...while I don't think people fighting police to disrupt the meeting is a viable option (policemen are people like you and me, just doing what they are told to, hitting them won't make things better), I do think it's bad to not let people express their opposition, afterall, these are the people these leaders are supposed to work for, they should give numbers and sensibilization if having a world-class economy system is such a good thing, not shutting the door off and smashing opponents, this shows only that these opponents might be right somewhere...
I can't beleive it, everyone should go take a look at that site, that gatt.org thing, anyone with a minimal sense of humanity and a bit of education will probably feel like I am right now, there's some stuff that is still true there, BUT it's stuff usually classified as "silent truth", you know it's right but you don't say it openly because it could backfire heavily (like the AIDS thing for example, of course if you copy a patented thing that took years and billion in research, it's stealing, but then again, selling it to make 100 of billions in profits (I did mention PROFITS not only recovering the cost of R&D and salaries) so that rich people can afford it and poor people can't, is it a more noble goal?
Anyways, I leave you with that quote:
--
Protesters rich, study shows
A new study shows that the special-interest lobbyists attending the Seattle, Prague, Nice, Davos, and other demonstrations come from population sectors that have freedom and money to travel, putting them in a different class from those sectors of the developing world they pretend to defend.
--
Well if that system we all know is to make rich people richer, if people that are opposing it are already rich, I read this and I think "maybe there's really something wrong in there" and with everything else I just read on their website, I'm really beginning to think that there is.
Funny thing is when this happened in Quebec (where I live) I thought that these protestors were just a bunch of kids with too much hormones needing to hit at something just like a big heavy metal concert... like a big party... I'm scared now because while this might still apply to a bunch of the people that were there, now I realize that 10,000s of people can't all be wrong... scary...
Re:this is very scary.... (Score:2)
Re:this is very scary.... (Score:3, Insightful)
if people that are opposing it are already rich
It isn't that the people who oppose this are rich. It's just that only those who are rich can afford to protest regularly all over the world. I'm sure alot of the people who oppose this would love to make hemselves heard, but they have to work at a job most of the time so they can eat.
I especially like the part you quoted where someone on gatt said that, basically, you can't defend people in third world nations because you're richer than they are.
Re:this is very scary.... (Score:3, Insightful)
One word - *NSync.
Re:this is very scary.... (Score:1)
In answer to your question: It's a parody. Jokes, not real..
However, this isn't too far off the real WTO and IMF/World Bank practices, so it wouldn't shock me.
Basically, these people are like student loans times 1000, to the world. They'll give you money to take care of an immediate crisis in your underdeveloped nation, and in return you only have to pay them back. Of course, they want to be paid back at HUGE rates, that these countries cannot possible afford to pay, and oftentimes never agreed to anyway. So, instead, these countries become slaves to the IMF, and instead of taking care of their nation, they have to produce crops/exports/Nike shoes for their corporate sponsors. The WTO basically wants corporations to be able to act as sovereign nations, exempt from national laws, and they'll dig up any cheapshots possible, including forcing South Africa, where there is a horrifying AIDS epidemic (about 1 in 10 have it), to stop using a knock-off treatment, to instead pay ten times more for the commercial brand. Sure, it may kill a few (thousand) persons, but Pfizer will get more money than they already have! Hooray!
It'll kill millions of people, create and promote sweatshops and worker exploitation, allow some corporate lords to abuse their power....but on the other hand, I imagine General Electric will increase profits, and a strong economy matters more than everyone's basic human rights anyway. You can expect to see stories similar to gatt.org's on a national television station owned by GE, Microsoft, Disney or AOL/Time Warner...only they won't be kidding.
Now do you see why all those protesters were so pissed, and came from so many differant backgrounds (I knew some anarchist squatters and rich suburban types who went, and claim to have met factory workers and "hippies" in the same crowd) ?
Oh... think I look stupid now haha :) (Score:2)
Or maybe it is more serious.... (Score:1)
Truth is a matter of debate most times. There are multiple views. But somebody pointed out that obvious parody is protected under law. Apparently this isn't entirely obvious parody. It might verge on (though not actually be) malicious impersonation.
If I can control the images you see, the text you read, and the information you have access to, then I can affect your perceptions. In this case, it is being done for protest. But what could be innocent protest could equally be manipulation.
Although the WTO is no panacea of righteousness, in this case, I think they are in the right to object. Put up a big front end on the other site pointing out that it is parody and I could live with it. We can't rely on the "obvious parody" defence, because it isn't and people are easily lead astray.
And as someone who saw some of what went on in downtown Ottawa at the G-20, I have to say there were a number of people who went their with violence in mind. You don't show up in ballistic protective gear, a gas mask, a balaclava, etc. if you aren't ready for trouble. (And NO, this isn't the police riot squad I'm talking about....).
And smashing the crap out of a McDonalds outlet and some other stores is beating up some businessman and probably won't do much to McDonalds' bottom line.
The media went to interview some of the protesters. They refused to speak on camera. When asked why, they said "the media always gets it wrong" to which the media person replied "here's the mike - you tell your story in your words." They wouldn't.
They asked another girl about why she was wearing a bandana, running with the rougher groups of protestors, and wouldn't give her name. Her answer? "It's fun!".
The Ottawa police didn't lay many charges and didn't lay into the hooligans even when they damaged property. They showed remarkable restraint and the prosecutors are laying light charges against those they did take into custody. AFAICS, this is just like saying "we don't want to appear heavy handed.... too bad for all the businesses affected". Not what I hope for in a government, if I'm a small business person.
And one of the protest organizers was complaining about the government not housing the protesters. He said "They decided to host the conference, which means they decided to host these protests too. They should be housing us." Pardon? The only place they should house people who smash shop windows and assault police is behind bars. And the rest of them who protest peacefully should be allowed to, but certainly not housed.
But what did the politically-sensitive Ottawa Council and our dork of a Mayor do? Took over hundreds of hotel rooms at taxpayers expense to house the rabble. Lovely... just lovely....
Remind me again why these protests are a good thing?
Re:Or maybe it is more serious.... (Score:1)
To remind you why they're a good (or important) thing it would be necessary for you to be able to see a little bit beyond the immediate problems of your circle of acquaintances/community/town. This is about whole nations of people being exploited for the purpose of making even more money for a very small number of people who are already fantastically rich. Open your eyes.
Re:Or maybe it is more serious.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I hadn't heard of people comming pre-dressed for battle before (but then I don't pay much attentiont to the protests). I'm open to the possibility that there might be a group of protesters who actually think that violence will promote their cause rather than contaminate it, but anyone who isn't the police and actually turns up to a protest in ballistic protective gear, a gas mask, and a balaclava, strikes me as being there (paid even) specifically to discredit the entire protest movement as 'just a bunch of hooligans'.
And neither would I, the problems with gobalisation are complex and we live in a sound bite generation. The reporter will choose the most sensational sentence - or even fraction of a sentence and air that (normally completely out of context). You know this is true. If you have no editorial control, you cannot tell your story in your own words.
I hear protesters have cottened onto how poor a job the media do and have started bring their own video cameras to protests. Good on them.
However, as much as I like the angle this parody site is presenting the WTO views from, I do have to agree with you that the WTO probably has a legitimate complaint here.
Of course the easy out is: (Score:1)
Seeing as code is free speech (for the time being) it is as simple as saying the program "produces html code which is free speech, and is a parody...which is protected as free speech as well".
Yeah, that is kind of a weasle-y way of thinking, but "eagles my fly, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines", seems to apply.
Or, as one poster pointed out "Fight fire with fire".
stray thought for the day:
DMCA: Digital Masturbating Conusmers of America. ( if you ran it thru the pornalize would it accomplish anything?)
Re:Of course the easy out is: (Score:2)
And considering that a court has already deemed code not to be speech (2600) in addition to those that have, who knows which view would prevail in the end. You may end up attaching your free speech argument to a sinking ship.
Web page translator (Score:2, Informative)
What gets me is this. (Score:3, Informative)
THe DMCA lets a copyright holder do this, to protect their work. They can write a letter, and have material taken down.
However... the counter to this is that the person with the site merely has to send a letter back declaring that the information does NOT infringe on their copyrights. They then have a certain number of days to file suit or drop it.
do you think most people realize it's a parody? (Score:2, Insightful)
Examining the site, I would realize it is not the true WTO site, but MANY people are not as well informed. The site appears remarkably realistic, uses the WTO logos and nowhere does it say its a parody. The site is blatantly and unarguably attempting to use deception and fraudulent argument to advance its political agenda.
Imagine there was a linuxkernel.org which looked exactly like the REAL kernel.org but gave out kernels patched to provide root access on port 80. The point of trademarks is to provide authenticity to information and a product. Reading something in the New York Times conveys something about its accuracy and the source of the information.
When you have guerrilla groups attempting to use false trust to advance their agenda, not only is it cowardly, but it is against the law.
Re:do you think most people realize it's a parody? (Score:2)
This site looks very WTO-ish, and that's good, the first part of a parody. Then start reading the text and realize that what they say is completely contrary to the WTO's beliefs.
Based on precedent, I am sure the Supreme Court would uphold this one too.
Re:Check out the www.microsoft.com parody site (Score:1)
microsoft.com is trademarked by Microsoft and is understood as such. The Microsoft trademark conveys certain information on a products quality and stability, which for you apparently means blatantly destructive (not sure I agree here but you're entitled to your opinion).
When you download a package from microsoft.com, you are NOT being fooled.
This is not a question of free speech (Score:1)
Slashdot is pretty strong on freedom of speech issues, but I think presenting this as one reflects badly on legitimate free speech issues covered in other issues.
Re:This is not a question of free speech (Score:4, Insightful)
Putting offensive words in people's mouth is a good definition of parody. Have you watched late night shows lately?
Besides, if the words are so offensive that you know they couldn't have been said by the WTO, then it is a clear parody. Alternatively, if you are not sure that it is the parody then either
- the words are not really so offensive
- You believe that the WTO can make such offensive comment in earnest.
In the second case this isn't just parody but world class top of-the-line fscking Jonathan Swift kind of parody.Re:This is not a question of free speech (Score:2)
Real Time Slashdot Parodies (Score:1)
I hope VA Linux doesn't make me take this down!
Check out:
Smurfdot [mrsodaoverload.com] and
Thunderslash [mrsodaoverload.com]
Re:Real Time Slashdot Parodies (Score:1)
WTO try every way to stop GATT.org (Score:2)
Parody: (1)A literary composition imitating the characteristic style of some other work or writer, but treating a serious subject in a nonsensical manner in an attempt at humor or ridicule.
They use the copyright EXCUSE and also try to take it on another EXCUSE - the name GATT.org 'confuses' visitors.
From article at IDG.net [idg.net].
Quote:
While the WTO encourages criticism of its role, there are limits to the forms this should take, said Carrier.
The WTO is powerless to stop the hoax until a new procedure for domain name arbitration is introduced by the World Intellectual
Property Organization allowing it to take control of the domain gatt.org, Carrier said.
End Quote.
They wish to muffle peoples voice, by taking gatt.org - saying it 'confuses' visitors to the site.
They know the solution to avoid 'consumer confusion'.
But they want this as an EXCUSE to steal peoples domains - so people can not use it.
Please visit WIPO.org.uk [wipo.org.uk] to see the simple solution the authorities have been hiding from you.
Most TMs share its name or initials with others... (Score:2)
Most trademarks share its name or initials with many others. When authorities could put trademark identity beyond shadow of doubt, they are either devoid of intelligence or corrupt.
Do not accept the LIES of Government and the authorities - question them.
The United Nations World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO.org) and the United States Department of Commerce (DOC.gov) are hiding the simple solution to trademark and domain name problem.
Please visit WIPO.org.uk [wipo.org.uk] to see it.
Re:Big deal... (Score:1)
I honestly don't think that what this program does is all that funny, nor do I care about what happens as a result of this...
It's one thing to do a parody of a site on your own as a joke or whatever but to make a fucking program so that other people can have the almost exact same thing so that they can be annoying and put up stupid, unoriginal, web-sites? Goto any mom-pop ISP and load up someone's web page. There are plenty of sites out there that are almost identical w/a few changes that are almost funny...
"Welcome to my HOMEPAGE! -- This site is under construction"
Re:Big deal... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft (Score:1)
with most users* running their software, and some anon. donations to judges/politicians... thats the reason why windows is closed - because the code to do this and change the underlaying protocals are all dorment, hidden in every version of windows that regularly net-updates. When they decide, overnight the internet will change - servers will refuse connections from non-windows machines. entire websites will automatically be 'updated' to use the new executable package technology, MSN will become the defualt dial-up connection and all other dun profiles will be deleted. Linus Torvalds will be turned to for a press conference for his views.. but wait, where is Torvalds????!! he has gone, been taken care of. (outstanding favour from the government to billy g for anon. donations). People turn to demonstrations but wait! slashdot is not working, no one can communicate: email??? gone irc??? gone. Be afraid... be very afraid
This conspiracy theory is purely fiction and in no way factual. Any resemblence to real life situations is purely coincidence. Microsoft(tm) is a registered trade mark of Capitalist Pigs corp. Any spelling mistakes in this post are the result of not giving a shit
TROLL!!! (Score:1, Funny)
incredibly hyperbolic, but not entirely off base (Score:2, Interesting)
First, they have no alternative. The entire movement is defined by what it is against, not by what it is for.
Second, large sections of the movement have no qualms with using false arguments and violence to advance their agenda.
For example, the anti-trade (supposed parody) gatt.org flatly accuses AIDS drug manufacturers of genocide. Saying that creators of drugs which cure AIDS actually are killing people afflicted with the disease is not only audacious, but logicaly incoherent. However, gatt.org does not let facts get in the way.
The anti-globalization protests have PRETENDED to be non-violent (and indeed some groups are). However, there are a large number of groups which have no qualms with blatant destruction and violence, and even more groups tolerate those groups and are thus tacitly complicit. If the movement really was non-violent, why are so many police needed to prevent full scale riots like Seattle?
And when violence does occur, members of the movement engage again in misinformation by blaming the police. Last time I checked, it wasn't the police who were looting stores and setting cars ablaze. If one actually watches the news in detail, the protestor who was shot in Genoa was killed as he was attempting to hurl a fire extinguisher at the head of a policeman. (Sounds pretty close to attempted 2nd degree murder to me.)
Members of the anti-globalization movement at the BARE MINIMUM must confront why their message and method is so attractive to violent thugs.
Re:incredibly hyperbolic, but not entirely off bas (Score:2, Informative)
.. or at least, that's what being spoon-fed your information by the mainstream media would make you believe.
Is the movement coherent in what it wants? No. But some of the things that have been demanded include: Fair Trade as opposed to Free Trade, environmental protection clauses built into the agreements, social welfare concerns such as decent labor laws being recognized as valid points for discussion and inclusion, debt relief for developing nations, transparency of the negotiations, democratic input, enforcement of human rights, etc.
The anti-globalization movement is composed of many different groups, each with its own agenda and methods. Some of them agree, some of them don't. As with any populist movement, it is one made up of diverse people, opinions, and ideas that have coalesced around a common thread: Globalization as it's happening now is not working.
Second, large sections of the movement have no qualms with using false arguments and violence to advance their agenda.
Again, this is an unfortunate misconception based on relying entirely on the mainstream media for information on the subject.
The truth is actually the reverse. However peaceful protests make for boring video and the truthful arguments are complex and don't condense neatly into a fifteen second sound-byte for the evening news.
If anything, it could be easily argued that those who use the most violence and false arguments to advance their agenda are those that favor the unfettered globalization process we see happening today. Fortunately for them, the violence often takes place in the developing nations affected by the agreements -- places where reporters are not hanging around looking for a story.
Members of the anti-globalization movement at the BARE MINIMUM must confront why their message and method is so attractive to violent thugs.
I'm not one to argue that there are idiots who like to use protests as cover for simply being assholes and wrecking things. But it's not just this movement's message and method that attracts these people, you get the same morons at soccer games, outdoor music festivals and other public gatherings. When it happens during these other events though it's generally somewhat separated from the centre of a city where major damage can be caused, and the news tends not to lump them in with the rest of the people who are present. At the protests, it's typically the opposite on both counts.
Check out www.indymedia.org for a different take on your nightly news. You may not agree with their viewpoint, but at least you'll be exposed to a different one than normal.