
Limewire Gets Ads, And Accusations of Spyware 288
Gerard J. Pinzone writes: "Limewire 1.8 now comes with mandatory banner ads. The reasons given by one of their developers, Christopher Rohrs, for the new ads are that
'Bandwidth alone from www.limewire.com,
www.limewire.org, and router.limewire.com is around $10,000 month! And we need to pay developer's salaries--like mine--to keep driving innovation on the Gnutella network.' On top of all this, the banner ad software Limewire is using is
"Cydoor". Many users are complaining that this is
spyware. Here is a link to the message in the Gnutella forums where this topic is being
discussed"
WAS around 10k, now is... (Score:3, Funny)
Bandwidth alone ... is around $10,000 month!
That's the pre-SlashdotEffect figure, right?/p.
Re:NO junk in the Mac version... (Score:2, Informative)
Don't get me wrong, I can live without this software, but it is also a symptom of developers not making the effort to port their work to other platforms.
The LimeGroup should just query for banner ads via their Java Client. I see no real reason for a thrid party, and I do support their use of ads. The new "super node" beta is freek'n awesome... instant access to tons of files. No more long connects. Ads are a small price to pay to keep development going.
Re:NO junk in the Mac version... (Score:2, Interesting)
You gets what you pays for. If the developers can't afford to support and run software, be it high bandwidth requirements or just needing to feed their kids then they need to find money somewhere. Adverts != money. Spyware == money. Registration fee == money.
*sigh* (Score:1)
Installation of Cydoor is OPTIONAL! (Score:5, Informative)
Still put crap on my desktop (Score:2)
Re:Installation of Cydoor is OPTIONAL! (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no mention of this program in the Windows Registry, either.
mod this up, not down (Score:1)
Re:Installation of Cydoor is OPTIONAL! (Score:3, Informative)
You can then go through its list and ferret out the shite that Cydoor has installed.
Anyone know of an uninstaller that can use InCtrl files? It'd be a snap to replace Windows' rather piss-poor uninstaller.
Screw Limewire... (Score:1, Flamebait)
Geez (Score:5, Funny)
http://limewire.limewire.org/servlets/ProjectHo
Re:Geez (Score:1)
Re:Geez (Score:5, Informative)
I was about to call you names back. But then I CVSed the source and low-and-behold, if you download it and compile it yourself (very, very easy with Apache Ant - there's even a batch file to do it) it's the same version (1.8) but WITHOUT the ad stuff. You don't even have to muss with the code.
http://core.limewire.org/servlets/ProjectSource
Very nice. (Thanks for being a jerk.)
-Russ
It is open source (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Geez (Score:2)
I don't mind Limewire showing some banners. I don't see how they can make money otherwise at Limewire. The spyware is more of an issue and I will block/remove it if I encounter it. I must warn the people from limewire that knowledgeable software users, open source developers in particular *hate* spyware. As such I think that such a move would be counterproductive since those very same people are also limewire's core users.
falling lemons (Score:1)
But what is also of note is the lousy java coding, notably the lax java installer. Even compiling it from source is a time. Segmentation faults (fixed with ulimit) is still not enough.
As a minor suggestion, try gtk-gnutella.
(http://gtk-gnutella.sourceforge.net)
Works great, open development: a better sort of karma.
. .
just... (Score:2)
I notice that limewire.org still advertises 1.7 as the most recent version.
Problems (Score:3, Interesting)
Bearshare has it too (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bearshare has it too (Score:1)
Re:Bearshare has it too (Score:5, Informative)
What pissed me off the most about this is NOWHERE in the install process or the website from front page to download link was this indicated.
I was happy to see alternative to napster, but I was REALLY angry at the fact that people are installing spying crap on my system not EVEN with small notices anywhere in the install or download process! That happened after the REAL.COM spyware fiasco, I thought people learned, I'm sure today it's not doing it anymore for that precise example (after a zillion complain probably)
But WHY do we have to go thru this?? these people should be treated the same way VIRUS WRITERS would be, heck, you can get jailed in some contries just to try to log in a
Anyways, I can't beleive people are still pulling that stunt, mandatory banner adds, it's okay in my book, even if it's totally useless and normally it means that the application will die (because who click these adds anyways?! the only advertising system I saw working were porn sites and some loyal people on a specific site (i.e. Here probably). The fact is they SAY so, they WARN you, if you go thru the process and something slows down your system or tracks your moves, at least you know! that's the BIG difference and even if it's almost ironic to say, I guess with all the spycrap around, people being honnest about the stuff they install on your system should get a praise. (yike!!)
----
| Bearshare pops up to an immediate ad, and also usually spawns a browser window to show an ad. Pretty annoying, but it's not a big deal to just close the spawned window and get on with your business... not really a big deal if limewire does it... besides, if it helps keep them in business, then i say go for it!
Re:Bearshare has it too (Score:2, Informative)
You're assuming that they are making money on clickthroughs exclusively and not on all the other data that they collect from you. Who really knows how much data mining these things do on your PC, without your knowledge or consent?
I am as paranoid about this kind of software as I am about people cracking into my machine. They are both non-consensual, and offer no information about their motives.
TREAT ADWARE / SPYWARE WITH EXTREME CAUTION!!!!!!!
Mandatory, eh? (Score:1)
As for spyware, that's bad mojo. While I don't doubt that initially my kung-fu would best it, how do I know that it doesn't detect that the spyware is missing and redownload it in the background? Sure, I could scan my system regularly with OptOut but that would mean trusting Steve Gibson...
Re:Mandatory, eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Two problems with this though:
Gator (Score:1)
Re:Gator (Score:2, Interesting)
As if... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Damn Java.
Re:As if... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:As if... (Score:2, Interesting)
spyware (Score:1)
No excuse for dishonesty (Score:2)
Re:No excuse for dishonesty (Score:1)
If I write it, its a virus.
If some corporation writes it, its spyware.
I don't see the difference, anytime a program subvertly installs itself to my computer without me asking, and THEN violates my privacy pisses me off. If someone wrote a virus that did this, they would be in jail, but since as I said.. Corporations wrote this, we can't do shit about it.
MSN sure has great software (Score:5, Funny)
Re:MSN sure has great software (Score:1)
Re:MSN sure has great software (Score:3, Funny)
Re:MSN sure has great software (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:MSN sure has great software (Score:1, Funny)
This is the sort of post that shows the need for a "+1, Troll" rating.
A well written troll is rare, and deserves to be acknowledged.
slashdot effect? (Score:1)
Gnutella? (Score:4, Interesting)
Download it. Give it a try...
Re:Gnutella? (Score:2)
Re:Gnutella? (Score:2, Interesting)
Here's an exerpt:
Re:Gnutella? (Score:2)
Re:Gnutella? (Score:2)
Well, last time I check, GiFT had severe issues due to the ever-changing FastTrack protocol. This appears to be largely to keep open source clients that don't want to connect to a central "authorization server" from working, but I can't say for certain.
Anyhow, here is the press release [sourceforge.net] giving a better picture of the gory details.
Too bad giFT hasn't worked in ages on linux... (Score:2)
since Kazza changed their protocol to a server-centric model (go read the link you just posted). Besides, QTella [sf.net] kicks Limewire's butt anays.
So? (Score:3, Flamebait)
(this is a snippit of my LimeWire 1.07 search monitor I fired up just for this post. 5 seconds generated these queries):
xxx
kiddy f*ck
*.mp3
"Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" [vv].avi
nudist
Windows XP Professional.iso
how to hack
*.mp3
porn.jpg
l33t warez
ts.wasco*.avi
12 year old
*.mp3
GOD DAMNIT PEOPLE USE THIS AS A CHAT CLIENT
a.gif
kazaa
and it continues.
Conclusion: There's nothing good ON the Gnutella network. (!= The Gnutella Network is not good.)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Better way to do Ads (Score:4, Informative)
www.httpads.com [httpads.com]
Basically he allows other people to do impulse buying of ads on his website. Very Interesting, and useful
And yes, he is making money on this angle.
The biggest problem is that it was all PORN ads! (Score:2)
Too bad they didn't integrate their ads with their software for people that filter out adult content.
Why are they spending so much on bandwidth? (Score:1)
Re:Why are they spending so much on bandwidth? (Score:1)
However, it seems to me that adding advertising is only going to increase their bandwidth (high cost) for very little return (is anyone still buying ads on the web?). I guess porn sites will find a niche, but that's about it. Seems like a dumb move to me.
Re:Why are they spending so much on bandwidth? (Score:2)
Still, once you get into DS3 land the local loop has to be crushingly expensive.
Re:Why are they spending so much on bandwidth? (Score:3, Informative)
You have to know how to negotiate. The major carriers are hungry. They will deal. Direct lines are ALWAYS cheaper / Mbit than colo hosting.
An Obsession with Spyware! (Score:3, Interesting)
Either don't install these add-ons (most installers ask these days) or set up your firewall to deny outgoing connections to them (you do have a firewall, right?). Failing that, run a filtering proxy like Proxomitron [flaaten.dk] (Windows only, Linux equivalents exist). If you're not to scared to compile the source yourself, get the latest build [limewire.org] of LimeWire's source and customize it the way you like, as was mentioned in a previous post.
When you send and receive e-mail messages through your ISP, they could easily figure out what times of day you get the most mail, when you send the most mail, your average file attachment size, etc. just by doing a statistical analysis of the mail server's log files; but no one talks about how SendMail could be spyware!
What's wrong with a little data mining? A lot, most would say. Every time you purchase something with your debit card or use coupons at the grocery store, you're telling some large corporation about your habits (this is old news to most). What's the difference if a piece of spyware watches what you do in Internet Explorer? You lose a little privacy? You lose your sanity? You lose your favourite box of rusty nails?
Seems pretty silly to me to worry about things like that when you could just uninstall the software, kill the spyware with Ad-Aware (or your axe of choice) and try a different product. Even better, write your own client and be done with it
Re:An Obsession with Spyware! (Score:1)
Gebus, some of us write web based software.
What may be casual statistics of YOUR browsing habbits, would be theft of my IP and source code to projects i'm working on.
Even if I use HTTPS, it doesn't matter, cause these proggies are directly part of Internet Explorer.
How does this affect the casual browser? What stops one of these programs from collecting a lot of credit card data?
Re:An Obsession with Spyware!(Who is inktomi.com?) (Score:2, Interesting)
If one of these "stastical" programs captured my entire POST when I updated lets say... a PHP or JSP page, they would have source code to one of my other web based porgrams.
And furthermore, there are servers that access files on my web server that are DEFIENTLY not linked from ANYWHERE on the WWW or my index.html.
216.35.116.58 - - [11/Nov/2001:16:43:33-0600] "GET
Which resolves to
j3018.inktomi.com
Curiously, I found a few spyware programs on my computer that I got from using Gamespy (ironic huh?). Lavasoft is cool, and helped me get rid of all those programs.
Fortuantly, that has a password on it, and it won't even let you in unless you access via HTTPS. BUT, what if I was using security through obscurity?
What if one of these spyware programs searches for username/password combinations and sends them encrypted with what "looks" to be statistical data?
The fact of the matter is, this is crap, and no one should try to even defend these people.
Re:An Obsession with Spyware! (Score:5, Insightful)
2) as The Register [theregister.co.uk] recently reminded me outbound filtering is useless against any program that has executed on your computer (because it's easy to piggyback your information on another service that already has outbound permissions) - I'm not sure any spyware does this but...
3) it's fine if someone want to try to track me from somewhere else but my computer in my home is
4) have I mentioned spyware is sneaky? real sneaky - it won't tell you it's installed, it won't (always) register w/ uninstall, it runs all sneaky like and sneaks and stuff.
Poor limewire - they should make money but why can't they do it like NPR, just bug all the limewire users for a week a year for donations?
Re:An Obsession with Spyware! (Score:2)
Someone didn't read their EULA.
Re:An Obsession with Spyware! (Score:2)
Uhhh... I'm not sure what "american law" you're thinking of, but (to my knowledge) there is no uniform law across all 50 states regarding how you may treat home invaders. Be careful spreading this type of misinformation around unless you have facts. OTOH, I'll quicly admit I'm wrong if you can show me a section of the USC that deals with this issue. As far as I know, this issue is left up to the various states, each of which treats it differently.
Re:An Obsession with Spyware! (Score:2)
Re:An Obsession with Spyware! (Score:4, Interesting)
It cost me 2 days to find that it was caused by something called newnet2_*.dll (IIRC), which appeared to do something with alternative TLD's. I was damned lucky to find it at that point because by chance I noticed this funny dll-name in the \winnt directory. It came with either Getright or Gozilla, programs that allowed me to resume a rather large download. More info on newnet at counterexploitation [cexx.org].
I did not know about ad-aware [lavasoftusa.com] at that time. I now run it often, and I use Proxomitron as well. I found proxomitron here [cexx.org], 'official' site is here [cjb.net]. Oh, and don't forget to get new definition files for Ad-Aware regularly!
Bandwidth problems? (Score:2)
You'd think that just maybe that would be an incentive to USE the distributed network itself to distribute your digitally signed app in order to cut costs.
Anyway, I recall that BearShare eventually got around to forcing various kinds of "adware" (spyware) down your throat, but after the bitching got to be too much, Vinnie grew half a conscience and instead begged you to Opt-In to the scheme.
Of course, there's a big difference between LimeWire (open but SLOW as snot), and BearShare (closed but the fastest).
Deja Vu all over again (Score:1)
It eventually turned out that Cydoor was causing urlParse errors on some users' machines, and there followed a big to-do about whether it was possible to remove Cydoor without having to remove InVircible. Wotta mess. The Cydoor people really ought to go back to honest work, like developing those porn-site popup windows that keep reappearing
Sending data (Score:1)
I strongly believe that if most people were given an option to send data back to companies to offest their costs.. they would! Providing they new exactly what they were sending and had options/selections to choose from. In other words.. I would allow it if I had a menu that I could grant permission to send my physical address, and what type of OS I am using, but not my phone number or email address or my reg codes of my software (looking for piracy.) I have no problem indentifing my gender, age, HS, height, weight, interests ect..
While some poeple may not want to offer as much as I do, at least it would give everyone an opt in/out and cause the spy-ware to become offer-ware
And have a much better reputation in the process!
Whine! (Score:1)
Now, the company they chose to use for adverts may be using some sort of spyware applet. So why isn't someone coming out with a program to prevent these applets from sending accurate information? So what if the company advertising knows that a white male btw. the ages of 25-30 in the pacific northwest is viewing the ad?
Blargh.
Spies (Score:3, Funny)
$ w
....
I can see what anybody on a system is doing, in REAL TIME! Imagine what this would mean for marketroids who got ahold of this information!
The only solution is to delete Linux from your systems now. Here's how:
$ DELETE LINUX.EXE
bash: DELETE: command not found
It's even nice enough to tell you that it's not found anymore. Hope this helps everyone rid their systems of spyware!
Sick of entitlement (Score:4, Insightful)
Gnutella and peer networks in general are going to continue evolving and innovating regardless of whether you specifically are involved.
If there is one thing I hate about all these projects it is the lame excuses for significant and broad invasions of privacy by people who cannot build a decent business model.
Instead they take a short cut, sell privacy invasion for a quick fix, and say that it is all for the good of the user.
Just because it makes money does not mean spyware is a proper or even tolerable method of funding work on your project or business, regardless of what it is.
Peer networks are about empowering and utilizing individuals communicating at the edge of the network. Invading their privacy like this defeats the purpose and sells everyone short.
Isnt a bitch giving things away for free? (Score:4, Insightful)
They _do_ have a valid business model. (Score:2)
Their business model is selling the privacy of their users to ad-companies.
You might not like this (hell, I don't either) but you have to accept that it is a pretty decent one, certainly superior to other ideas like pure banner ads or asking for voluntary contributions.
If you don't like spyware, simply don't use any program that deploys it. Your inane ranting however will do nothing about the mindset of the common Internet user, which is that they accept every oh so damned advertisment scheme as long as they don't have to pay for site content or program licensing.
And since you have been taking the decision to play the "holier-than-thou" side of this discussion, I invite you to either try to make up a better business plan, or to educate an average 15 years old that paying $5 per month for a service they like isn't so bad...
Try KaZaA (Score:2)
So, I can see why a lot of people want to use limewire...but if this spyware thing rules it out for you, give kazaa a shot.
I just tried this (Score:1)
This is good timing. I was looking for a good Win32 based Gnutella client to use at work and so started looking around at what was available. I was pretty much unimpressed with everything that I tried. It was either addware, spyware, or just bad.
Limewire did not really impress me. It is Java based. On Windows, that means slow, unresponsive, and buggy. For functionality, I was unimpressed.
What is the Winamp/xmms of Win32 for Gnutella?
A lot of people at work seem to use Kazza, but from the NT logs that I see I can tell that it crashes -- a LOT. I do not know much about Morphus.
Re:I just tried this (Score:3, Informative)
if you have a broadband connection and you're looking for a good gnutella client, try Xolox [xolox.nl] it does simultaneous, restartable downloads. it's not as good as morpheus for identifying identical content, and the gnutelly network doesn't support the rich metadata that morpheus has, but it's the best gnutella client i have found, nothing fancy..
AdAware, ZoneAlarm, Popup Stopper (Score:3, Insightful)
WinMX (Score:2, Informative)
If it bothers you so much, quit the habit... (Score:2)
Re:If it bothers you so much, quit the habit... (Score:2)
Ha, ha. I think it's obvious I meant "they have a right to try". Otherwise I could just declare that I have a right to make money and then sue when it doesn't happen...
Kazaa did it to me... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Kazaa did it to me... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Kazaa did it to me... (Score:2)
Re:Kazaa did it to me... (Score:2)
Or download the source code to LimeWire (it is open source you know) and take out the ads.
they ought to do a public radio style thing (Score:2)
And on a regular basis send out an ad for themselves, through the software perhaps, asking for donations. If the donations don't come, or they aren't enough, take the server(s) down once a week, or twice a week, or permanently, whatever, until the donations reach the necessary level.
Anything but ads! Ads on the computer are just like white noise to me now, my brain has somehow learned to half-ignore them, not registering what they are about, but being annoyed by their presence.
If they die off because of lack of funds, then, well, natural selection in full effect. Something better will come along.
erm... s/ad (for themselves)/message $1/ (Score:2)
See the subject, but as an aside:
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Stupid lameness filter...There wasn't a single cap letter in the first version of this post????????
If you're running Windows try this program!!! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:If you're running Windows try this program!!! (Score:2)
AdAware calls Cookies "spyware", which is a little bit overly paranoid. Cookies are used for data mining, AdAware is right about identifying and removing them, but they are not "trojans".
Re:If you're running Windows try this program!!! (Score:2)
IMHO, a trojan is computer code that is doing things behind the user's back.
A cookie is just state information, nothing more, nothing less.
If a user has lots of Cookies and AdAware tells him that these are "spyware components", it is misleading, feeding paranoia and fear.
See the original statement of the user who said he had "200 files" that he called "trojans".
AdAware is right about detecting and removing Cookies of well-known user-tracking ad-sites. But it should be a bit more exact when explaining the risks to avoid paranoid users.
Gnutella's future looks bright (Score:2, Informative)
Re:very bright indeed (Score:2)
In addition, the major gnutella problem (scalability)is going to be addressed in a beta release shortly after that. Historically, Limewire has releases every few weeks so I suspect a 2.0 could be here before the end of this year. With the introduction of supernodes, gnutella will be as scalable as fasttrack (essentially supernodes are the key difference between the fasttrack protocol and the gnutella protocol). Only it will be open (both the protocol and the implementations). This is very good news.
I'm increasingly annoyed with the crappy/buggy morpheus interface (kazaa is exactly the same but includes spyware). I experience random crashes and the UI seems to be assembled by a couple of morons. My little sister could do a better job given a 3 day course in VB for dummies.
I always liked the limewire interface, with the improved search ability it will be a worthy competitor to kazaa/morpheus and with the supernodes in place it will be as scalable as the fasttrack network.
I really like the way this is evolving. Just as the RIAA is starting to sue Fastrack licensees, something else they deemed irrelevant before is given a new chance. It must drive them nuts. Gnutella must have at least a dozen different clients. No one owns the protocol and most clients are open-source. The only way to ban it is to start sueing on the client side. Luckily, freenet is still improving too
Why not just use Qtella? (Score:3, Informative)
A new version (0.3) was released two days ago.
I have no sympathy for all the losers on
Here is the URL: http://www.qtella.net/
Description:
Qtella is a new Gnutella client for Linux written in C++ using the Qt libraries. It should be no problem to use Qtella on any platforms where Qt with thread support (library qt-mt must exists) is installed.
The following features are part of Qtella 0.2.1:
multiple search
continue interrupted downloads
uploads
limit number of downloads and uploads
limit upload bandwidth
separate unfinished downloads from finished ones
download of several files at once
test whether file allready exists
identification of download server
automatic retry if error, busy, closed
auto connect list
KDE integration
save host list
handle extended gnutella protocol
status lines and statistics
accecpt incoming connections
download from firewalled hosts
pong cache to reduce network traffic
Re:Why not just use Qtella? (Score:2)
Re:Why not just use Qtella? (Score:2)
OTOH, your complaints sound like trivial things to fix, if anyone thought it worth the effort. Probably the people working on the project don't even know what is bothering you. If you can be polite about it, they would probably want to hear what you think would make things better. Of course, they'd prefer if you could submit a patch proposal
If adware/spyware is a problem... (Score:2)
MS may have forced OEM's to preinstall windoze on your pc (clue in Dept. of Justice), but thereafter, the choice is yours.
Re:If adware/spyware is a problem... (Score:2)
If you read earlier posts, you'll see that the non-windows version has no ads.
Just DLed GNUCLEUS (Score:2)
Try the new F2F network, works for me. (Score:2)
However we have figured it is a simple as a two click (boom) uninstall.
The transfer rates are fast! Get cd's from your "network of friends" and as your cd-burner can go you'll have whatever you're looking for.
And best of all, nobody is excluded from joining unless you don't want them to! FTP and IRC protocols allow you to deny/allow whomever you wish. No banners, no ads and you (w)get whatever you deserve.
One cavet in all of this is you will have to upgrade your wetware to better versions of commonsense.libs, intelligence.exe conversations.dll's.
Thank you.
Visits us at www.internet dinosaurs r us.com
A Bit off-topic (Score:2)
Thiefware (Score:3, Informative)
They have comprehensive descriptions of all the companies and the spyware they install.
I discovered this site after being called by a "representative" wanting to sell our company keywords for $30,000! My boss was psyched about it until I impressed upon him that we did not want to be associated with such scum. The bizarro thing was that this salesman didn't even work for Cydoor Networks...they seemed to be parasites of the parasites.
Note: Limewire 1.8 on Mac OS X is banner free! (Score:2, Informative)
Stupid, stupid, stupid (Score:2)
Napster makes money off distribution of copyright information. Napster gets sued and shut down. Fasttrack makes money off distribution of copyright information. Fasttrack gets sued. LimeWire makes money off distibution of copyright information. At least Gnutella isn't a sueable entity.
Bandwith costs justify adding more load? (Score:2, Interesting)
Invasion of the brain snatchers (Score:1)
Are the pods actually disguised as XP boxes or as X-Boxes? Will I wake up tomorrow, and feel the uncontrollable urge to load XP?
Re:Linux version? (Score:2, Informative)
Thanks.
Adam Fisk
LimeWire