Music Industry Raids Taiwan Campuses For MP3s 200
martijnd writes: "The Taipei Times newspaper reports that in Taiwan at least the music industry and police agree that possesion of illegal music must be as dangerous as having other substances hidden in your dorm room. In an attempt to stamp out MP3 file trading on campus the music industry is going after individual university students and has the police bring them in." The article says that some students are teaching others "techniques of erasing files without a trace, keeping hidden backup files, and even smashing one's own hard drive in the event of a police search in school dorms." Those sound like pretty good things to encourage anyhow to me.
W00H00 (Score:1)
Engrish. (Score:1)
Re:IFPI completely missing "clue" (Score:1)
FREE MP3s eat into the police bribes profits, they want those bootleg/pirate factories to keep running.
Free mp3s are for once prooving to be hurting the pirate industry as much as the real industry.
Re:not so fast (Score:1)
The Tiananmen square massacre was in communist China. These students are in Taiwan. Despite what the communists in China claim, these are two completely separate nations and have been for over half a century.
Unless of course something changed on that since this morning.
Taiwan is not the PRC! (Score:1)
At least, that's what the Taiwanese want. China's view on the matter is that Taiwan is a renegade state and will be re-unified with China. Despite the fact that Taiwan has its own government, China exerts considerable influence over Taiwan. It's all still up in the air, but China could initiate a military takeover of Taiwan sometime soon. After that, Taiwan would presumably end up under a one nation, two systems arrangement like Hong Kong.
In any case, Taiwan had nothing to do with the Tiananmen incident, which occurred in mainland China under the PRC.
I apoligise for posting this more than once, but no-one seems to actually read other posts and someone really ought to set you straight.
Re:Music Crime (Score:2)
Seriously- I'm picturing some type of minimalist industrial electronic music with this text as a spoken word passage (perhaps a vocoder like on that Cher song, only instead of a singing Nord Lead it'd be a talking bench grinder or arc welder)
Makes me wish I had time to do it- but _somebody_ should. dh003i, get some recording software and a mic and do more stuff like this! :)
Re:For any taiwanese students reading this... (Score:1)
Not quite (Score:2)
That is assuming that the magnetic field penetrates the metal shell of the drive, of course.
Re:Same with WareZ (Score:1)
----
Just one man beneath the sky,
Re:MPAA, RIAA, other countries (Score:1)
Re:People getting screwed (Score:1)
I love computers. I love the damn things. I can stay awake for days just messing around with and tinkering with hardware/operating systems. Microsoft is the epitomy of bad taste. They've in many ways ruined the computer industry.
How often have I heard some ignorant relative ask me "What do you want to do with your life?" and I respond "Computers". Then I almost invariably get "Oooh....like Bill Gates!". That's the part where i shudder in horror and proceed to beating the relevant person with a very large brick.
People getting screwed (Score:2)
Re:not so fast (Score:1)
Re:What if they try this here? (Score:1)
Though it is worth noting that that particular intended use failed. The national government did in fact roll over states' rights, and is in fact oppressing everyone uniformly now.
Re:Fine arts (Score:1)
you got me with the Hemos bit... very nice. I am definitely impressed.
Copyright = criminal law? (Score:1)
Any reasonable human (ie, not a lawyer) would agree that IP "theft" is an issue between the copyright holder and the accused thief--so it should be under tort law.
Instead, it's prosecuted under criminal law and in addition to the surly copyright holders, the government comes running in too, demanding a $250,000 fine and, uh... some number of years in prison--don't know exactly 'cause I haven't bought any CDs in a few years.
Anyway, what the hell? At what point did the gubbermint stop working for We The People and get a part-time job for Big Business anyway?
Re:There is a way (Score:1)
"The university authorities urged students to remain calm and focus on their studies.
Midterm exams will begin at Chengkung University next week.
i would like to see the exam results for this college and compare them to the older results, can you imagine the students not happy with the results then sueing the authoroties for causeing unnsacary mental anguish at an already stressfull time.
Re:There is a way (Score:1)
Funny how all the dyslexics I meet can actualy spell dyslexic but this is the word that we get the most agony about. 'Sooo you are dyslapstic, dicexptic, dissloposite etc...'
Re:There is a way (Score:1)
Does that cover it?
:)
Re:There is a way (Score:1)
Why they do this... (Score:5)
They probably aren't doing this because they are very upset about MP3's, but because it is a demonstration that they are working to stamp out piracy.
-m
break glass in case of cops (Score:1)
Re:MP3s are getting a bad name (Score:2)
- I have already had strange looks from people simply for mentioning MP3s in conversation. And people trying to tell me that copying from my own CDs to MP3s is illegal.
On this note, I have several CDs of which I own the original pressed CD, that I have encoded on a computer at work so that I don't have to worry about bringing the CD in and possibly forgetting it. Some people would say this is illegal, but it is just fair use. I have hidden the folder so that the average schmuck can't get to them, so that argument goes out the window._______
Scott Jones
Newscast Director / ABC19 WKPT
Re:Law enforcement in Taiwan, a quick primer (Score:1)
Why, has the Chinese communist party renounced the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat?"
gee, do i have a patent&market-able idea, here? (Score:1)
Assuming you have data that'd get you in more trouble than the explosives or incendiary.
Re:People getting screwed (Score:1)
One thing that really annoys me is the perception that it's not such a big deal when there are police raids on student accomodation. This isn't a problem I've had to deal with personally, but this is hardly the first Slashdot story that shows police being able to get into student accomodation more easily.
Why does being a student make it any different from if we were not? Raids on student accomodation should be reacted to exactly as raids on domestic homes would be.
Re:People getting screwed (Score:2)
Disclaimer: this is slightly off-topic, since I'm discussing residence hall raids in the U.S., not Taiwan.
The reason residence hall rooms get raided more easily than private homes is not so much because they are government institutions, per se. It actually comes down to a conjunction of two legal principles: lanlord/lessee agreements and in loco parentis.
Basically, since the student living in a residence hall has a "lease" with the college/university (leaving aside for the moment the compulsory nature of these "leases," especially for freshmen), they agree as a condition of their lease to allow the landlord (the college) access to their room for any reason at any time. Thus, when the institution finds it expedient to bypass the normal warrant procedures, they can. Anyone renting an apartment most likely has a similar situation, even if it's not explicitly in their lease agreement. The property owner, not the occupant, retains their Constitutional rights protecting them from unwarranted search and seizure. They can grant permission to law enforcement without the lessee's consent, and often do just as a method of reducing their legal liability by cooperating with the authorities.
The other legal doctrine involved, in loco parentis (in capacity of parent), gives schools most of the legal authority of parents over students under the age of 21, and moreso under 18. This doctrine applies in high schools, too, for example. In loco parentis is fading into the background, however, in favor of the legal arguments under landlord/lessee agreements, as above.
Note, however, that many (not all, perhaps not even most) schools do not violate student privacy so flagrantly as a matter of policy. At the University of Oklahoma, for example, the campus police (actually Oklahoma State Patrol officers) in my experience always abided by normal warrant/probable cause procedures, and the administration did not give them carte blanche to enter rooms.
Of course, the obligatory "Dammit Jim, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer!" statement applies here...
secret service? (Score:1)
Re:In for a penny, in for a pound (Score:1)
If so, then how do you propose that creators of exceptionally expensive to develop and valuable IP (CocaCola TM, UNIPOL Process, drugs and Brittany Spears music?) be compensated for their efforts?
Or do you propose they not labor at all?
If not, it is easy to see your point: raids are just another enforcement tool.
Electromagnet (Score:1)
JOhn
when the thugs come a knockin... (Score:2)
Mafioso guy has very strong encryption of his files, with a key on a 5.25 floppy disk (this would work with a cd-r, too). Has an industrial strength waffle iron hot and ready at all times. If the heat is uppon him, put the key in the waffle iron. It would probably help to have a backup somewhere safe, if there is such a thing as a safe place.
Re:Same with WareZ (Score:1)
Wait a second...you're pulling our collective legs!
You *almost* got me, then I though, hey...back in the days of 300-2400 baud modems, we were DAMNED lucky to have CDROMS, much less anything that could RECORD CDs.
So, I checked good old Google [google.com], and lo and behold:
So, it seems to make sense that you and your leet buddies didn't spend hundreds of dollars on this fancy new 'CD-R' stuff. Likely, you kept it all on 3.5" floppies like the rest of us did.
Have a good day.
It occurs to me that I need to start getting more rest. Sigh.
Re:Same with WareZ (Score:1)
And what do you mean 'html shit'? I've never seen a BBS using html...it's ALL text babbbyyyy... Unless, of course, you mean 'the web', or 'the information stuporhighway'.
:-)
Good techniques? (Score:1)
I wonder if these raids are co-sponsored by Maxtor or Western Digital?
Law enforcement in Taiwan, a quick primer (Score:5)
First, as has been mentioned by another poster, the government of Taiwan is under unbelievable pressure from the United States to enforce intellectual property rights laws. Somewhere around 30% of Taiwan's economy is based on the export of goods to the United States. Threatening trade relations is a remarkably effective stick to beat the government with.
In 1993, Taiwan passed a law protecting intellectual property rights. Here is a link to the English translation of the law if you are curious [virtualtaiwan.com]. The general understanding is that the text of this law was delivered from the American Institute in Taipei (the official unofficial embassy since the United States does not maintain formal relations with Taiwan), with instructions to pass it, as written, without ammendments or modifications, or suffer punitive tarrifs under Section 301 of the United States Trade Act of 1974 [doc.gov].
Eight years ago, the issue was bootleg microchips. Now it's bootlegged MP3s. Little else in the basic dynamic has changed.
To condense a very deep topic into a paragraph, Chinese law enforcement is based the principle of "Sha Yi Jing Bai" -- kill one to warn a hundred. Rather than trying to consistiently enforce laws, the police excercise a crackdown mentality where a number of people are run in on the crime of the week, extremely harsh sentences are metted out to the few unlucky folks who have been caught, and then the usual state of barely controlled anarchy which makes up Chinese society resumes.
This promotes a lot more flaunting of the law than respect for it in my mind, but how can a gawailo like me comment on a legal system which has been using this technique for the last thousand years?
A final aspect of the legal system in Taiwan (and China to a great degree) is that you can apologize your way out of a lot of things. I suspect that very few of the students arrested will actually see any jail time for their sins. Most of them will act very contrite, and will be set free to go forth and sin no more.
Cheers!
j.
Re:Communism (Score:1)
a) slack off, not work, and just ride on everyone else, and
b) take advantage of the government position and increase its influence, rather than wait for it to naturally dissolve, as Marx believed.
Now, I don't promote communism as a national policy, and I don't support what are popularly called "communist countries". But I think that if it weren't for the massive failure of places like Russia, a *lot* of Slashdotters/GPLers would be promoting a communist viewpoint. It's got a lot in common.
Re:Communism (Score:1)
My point was (and is) that a lot of thinking which is common around Slashdotters and free-software advocates has a lot of fundamental ideas similar to communism. Consider these statements (from the FSF home page):
The system of copyright gives software programs "owners"...(this is then construed as a Bad Thing)
The Communist Manifesto mocks the modern concept of "Hard-won, self-acquired, self-earned property" as having no value, and Stallman similarly derides the statement "I put my sweat, my heart, my soul into this program. It comes from me, it's mine!" The FSF talks about "a system where people are free to decide their own actions", while The Marxist Society talks about "working to build a system where people are free to decide their own actions"...identical wording! Marx talks endlessly about the revolution of the social classes, and RMS discusses a revolution of today's software market.
This isn't saying that I support communism, or that I disdain the FSF. I think that, while communism may have some laudable goals, it will never work, and attempts to make it work do far more harm than good. I think that the FSF is an excellent organization, and I fully support it, but I find some of their views extremist. But that's not my point.
I remain convinced that if it were not for the massive American social stigma against communism, left especially from the Cold War, it would be an extremely prevalent viewpoint around Slashdot. It meshes perfectly with the views about patents and intellectual property that are so commonly expressed.
Re:Test the legality of this: (Score:1)
Uh huh. And let's say you wipe those files off, zeroing them out, and it's impossible to tell if they were on there or not. Consider
1 - student has mp3s shared (bad idea) on network
2 - MPAA sees this and OF COURSE goes to a judge to get a search warrant (hah)
3 - the student feels guilty, and because he is security concious, secure-wipes the files
4 - MPAA/Police show up. Grab his computer (legal)
5 - they discover there are no mp3 files!
So, let's charge the user with what, obstruction of justice? Destruction of evidence? This would be silly, as it would set the precedent - if you download mp3s, you CANNOT delete them because they might, at some further point, be used against you.
In terms of "real life" items - if the user were to have say, an illegal substance, and he "got rid of" that substance before the police showed up - possession is 9/10ths of the law, isn't it. The police would have nothing. But lets say the student "hid" the stuff, say in the toilet. Then, the item is recoverable and the user is in possession, bamn, he can be charged.
Therefore, what judges would hold people to files that were deleted? I don't think any judge would, as long as those files could not easily be recovered.
Re:IFPI completely missing "clue" (Score:1)
yours,
IFPI completely missing "clue" (Score:3)
They completely miss the real source of the problem. Bootlegs in Taiwan are plentiful and public, and there is no enforcement on the retail level. You can easily purchase a bootleg "collection" CD in any large department store. In this way, the whole "cheaper is better, regardless of source" concept is promulgated throughout society. If the IFPI is serious about decreasing profit margins, then they should attack the criminal organizations creating these that clearly violate Taiwanese copyright, not students that are engaging in what may actually be considered fair use under Taiwanese law. My impression is that the law there has not yet been clarified in that manner.
At least in the U.S., the CDs we buy in stores are bona fide copies. Now, I'm no fan of RIAA; I believe that they don't really serve a purpose other than to promote a monopolistic view for music, to keep the recording industry's profit margins nice and fat while the common artist is screwed.
But I sincerely hope that the RIAA doesn't start using the Gestapo tactics that the IFPI is using.
yours,
Re:Isn't the government about the people? (Score:1)
Absolutly _not_! The purpose of government is to protect people, reguardless of their views. If the purpose was to just "do the will of the people" it's pretty much justified in doing _anything_, including things like the Holocaust, just because "it's the will of the people". Anyway, don't complain to me when the majority of people think that free speech is bad on the Internet and that's taken away, after all, as you said, "it's the will of the people".
So, merely the fact that a lot of people use Napster doesn't make it right or wrong.
Grades, Social Life, Sleep... pick two.
Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (Score:1)
MP3 files, are not necessarily that of pirated music, and therefore are not all necessarily illegal, and therefore such a case would not hold up in court anyways. Like having or making a bong in itself is not enough to incriminate you, regardless of its most common use. It's the substance you put into it that they'll have to bust you for, and not the medium of consumption itself.
Re:IFPI completely missing "clue" (Score:1)
Re:For any taiwanese students reading this... (Score:1)
For any taiwanese students reading this... (Score:2)
www.rubberhose.org [rubberhose.org]
cost and resources (Score:1)
the guilty whinge of "why aren't they catching
real criminals" - but I wonder what this is
costing the Taiwan Police to carry out. Maybe
they don't have much other crime if the link
below is to be believed, but as the article
states "students play only a tiny role in the larger problem of pirated music". To spell
it out - the more serious crime is that of
pirating music for profit (i.e. forgeries) but
the police appear to be going for the easy and
obvious targets as a example.
http://travel.dk.com/wdr/TW/mTW_Crim.htm
Berne Convention (Score:1)
MP3s are getting a bad name (Score:4)
I have already had strange looks from people simply for mentioning MP3s in conversation. And people trying to tell me that copying from my own CDs to MP3s is illegal.
Looks like it's not going to be long before parents are searching their kids' HDs fof MP3s (hey, great product opportunity!) and government ads are coming out with moronic slogans.
"Friends don't let friend's use MP3s!"
"Every download is doing you damage!"
Test the legality of this: (Score:3)
IE, if you find yourself in possession of something contraband, doing X would be the equivalent of burning it from a legal point of view.
Exploiting that concept...I wonder about the legality of the following things (pardon the Windows bias but hey, that's me)
1) Keeping your MP3/BombPlans/TeenPorn in the \RECYCLER folder on an NTFS volume. Note that under Windows NT, each user gets his or her own "Recycler Bin" (whereas they all share one common \RECYCLED folder on non-NTFS volumes). So, anything you put in the root of this folder is not deleted when you "Empty Recycle Bin". From a legal perspective, it seems possible you could say, "Hey, I dragged that all to the trash to delete it, don't blame me!" At the same time, all the files would be perfectly usable. Just have to clear your file histories to hide the fact that you are accessing the files there.
2) Same as #1 but actually putting them in the Recycle Bin...and disabling/teaching yourself not to ever empty it. Stronger case than #1 although you can't navigate folders and some programs give error messages when you try to use those files.
3) Have a hard disk that you do not use. "Delete" files...which in Windows land means the first letter of the file name is erased from the File Allocation Table. When you want to access the files, unerase them with a utility. As long as you don't write anything else to the drive while files are in "delete" state you can repeat this infinitely.
4) Write a program that automatically does #3 on the fly (Unerase D:\MP3, Open WinAmp, Play, Close WinAmp, Erase D:\MP3).
Seriously...would judges hold people accountable for files that were deleted? It seems worth considering...
- JoeShmoe
Re:People getting screwed (Score:2)
Seems to me that after that short yet passionate rant you should perhaps change your .sig to something hateful towards RIAA or the world wide recording industry, period.
---
What to make of this? (Score:2)
Arresting students for trading MP3's is very bad of course and is a terror tactic aimed at scaring other students and the general public. On the one hand Americans like myself shouldn't expect this kind of thing in the US, but on the other hand it isn't inconceivible either that somehow the RIAA would find a way to single out and arrest some students.
The other part of this that does not make any sense at all is why the Recording Industry is doing this in Taiwan. There are bootleg CD's sold in stores all the place right? That has to be costing the recording industry many times as much as lost revenue from MP3's. Is the case law and legal system in Taiwan such that making and selling pirate CD's is impossible to prosecute, but owning MP3's is easy?
The Register's coverage (Score:2)
The more recent article [theregister.co.uk].
Legal terrorism by corporations (Score:5)
What about in AMERICA? (Score:2)
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
Isn't the government about the people? (Score:2)
Might a referendum be the answer here? If the majority of the population believes that the law should be changed then so be it. It may screw up the economy, it may not, but it is the people's decision either way.
That old saying about "If you download MP3's, you are downloading communisim." is completely backwards. "If you don't download MP3's, you are promoting communisim." is more like it!
Executions of US citizens for IP violations? (Score:2)
Uh (Score:2)
Rate me on Picture-rate.com [picture-rate.com]
Re:not so fast (Score:2)
Rate me on Picture-rate.com [picture-rate.com]
Re:not so fast (Score:2)
Rate me on Picture-rate.com [picture-rate.com]
Re:What if they try this here? (Score:2)
Rate me on Picture-rate.com [picture-rate.com]
Re:not so fast (Score:2)
Rate me on Picture-rate.com [picture-rate.com]
Re:You can't smash hard drives (Score:2)
This is true. However, this is also the reason why programs such as 'shred' write over a file multiple times -- the HDD heads will have slightly different alignment each time, and by making more passes, more of the data track will be erased. There is even a Department of Defense standard on how many passes should be made, plus the write-over pattern that should be used for secure deletion of sensitive military information.
---
The AOL-Time Warner-Microsoft-Intel-CBS-ABC-NBC-Fox corporation:
Down with the students! May they burn in hell! (Score:2)
Also on widely available pirates, in Russia one can get any CD, and I mean any to the most obscure stuff, perfect copy with book and all on high quality paper, for around US$2 (less without the book). BUT those dastarly students, that's where the problems lie....
Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (Score:2)
Everyone knows the World Trade Center is in the middle of a piss-soaked metropolis and is surrounded by strange foreigners 24x7. Something like that was bound to happen, and everyone who goes there knows it. The guys who committed the crime had no idea they were attacking an anti-icon.
On the other hand people believe bad things don't happen in "nice neighborhoods like ours", and when they do, it totally shakes their sense of security. That's why Columbine and OK City are in respective order, worse tragedies than normal inner city violence and the World Trade bombings.
Re:not so fast (Score:2)
Cast your mind back to June 4th 1989 [christusrex.org].
Caution: the above link may cause some people distress.
Organized crime and shopping in Taiwan (Score:2)
Nor is this necessarily a bad thing for Taiwan. In fact, it seems that mainland China has enthusiasticly embraced this model, which in fact is the ancient Chinese Imperial way of doing business. As some wags suggest, when we say "capitalism" we often really mean "current business customs among English speakers." It may be somewhat against our custom for government to be so close to criminal gangs (although remember J. Edgar Hoover was fond enough of the Mafia to insist publicly for years that there was no such thing in America!), but as Taiwan shows, when handled right, this can produce a vibrant capitalist economy.
On the other hand, when viewed from the culture of 50-years hence, if we make it that far, I suspect the RIAA will appear to have been a criminal gang.
Re:Test the legality of this: (Score:2)
Judges and prosecutors are resourceful. If it looks like you did something with criminal intent they will find a way to nail you.
In addition consider that, if you are charged, any lwayer will tell you to cut a deal with the prosecution, because, a) you don't have the money. b) you don't have the guts to risk jail. c) something like 97% of tried criminal cases end in a guilty conviction. ( in other words, the chances of hearing a US jury say not guilty is about half of the chance an accused had of winning a case before the spanish inquisition).
IANAL
Re:Music industry does it again * rant * (Score:2)
FP.
--
Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (Score:2)
http://asdf.org/~fatphil/maths/illegal.html
I believe an online discussion group called 'slashdot' once ran a story on it...
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/03/17/1639250.s
FatPhil
--
Havent' the governments learned? (Score:2)
Maybe it's because we have no resposibilties freeing us up to devote ourselves heart and soul. Maybe it's because we still have our enthusiasm.
But the best way I can see for any music association to destroy its power is to attack the students. If this were to occur in the US, I feel that within 5 years the laws would be so radically changed that the RIAA would be nothing more than an archaic symbol stripped of all power.
So I say, keep it up, Taiwan. The sooner you go after individual students, the sooner those future leaders will come to resent copywright monopolies.
What's the maximum sentence for this? (Score:2)
Music Crime (Score:4)
The RIAA is watching you.
MP3 police.
Who controls the internet controls the MP3s: who controls the law controls the internet.
Unfairuse
Doubleplusunfairuse
Riaasoc
You could create and share noise but not music.
We're getting the music into its final shape -- the shape it's going to have when nobody hears anything else. When we've finished with it, tpeople like you will have to learn music all over again. I dare say, that our chief job is inventing new music. But not a bit of it! We're destroying notes -- scores of them, hundreds of them, every day. We're cutting the music down to the bone. The eleventh album won't contain a single note that will become obsolete before the year 2050.
You don't grasp the beauty of the destruction of notes. Do you know that Newmusic is the only music in the world whose repratrauer gets smaller every year?
It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of notes.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newmusic is to narrow the range of thought? In the end, we shall make musicrime literally impossible, because there will be no notes in which to express it. Every song that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one note, with its tone rigidly defined and all its subsidiary tones rubbed out and forgotten.
Every year fewer and fewer notes, and the range of consciousness always a little smaller. Even now, of course, there's no reason or ecuxe for committing musicrime. It's merely a question of self-discipline, reality-control. But in the end there won't be any need for event hat. The Revolution will be complete when the music is perfect. Newmusic is Riaasoc and Riaasoc is Newmusic. Has it ever occured to you that by the year 2050, at the very latest, not a single human being will be able to understand 'music' wuch as we are listening to now?
The whole climate of music will be different. In fact there will be no music, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not hearing notes -- not needing to hear notes. Orthododxy is unconsciousness. Soon, people will buy CD-albums which are blank.
Duckmusic, to quack music like a duck. It is one of those interesting words that have two contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent(such as Napster), it is absue, applied to someone you agree with, it is praise.
Two minutes hate.
It was terribly dangerous to let your singing wonder when you were in any public place or within the range of the Riaascreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxeity, a habit of muttering to yourself -- anything that could give you away...Even to wear an improper expression on your face when a victory against napster was announced, was a punishable offence. There was even a word for it under the Newmusic order: facecrime, it was called.
Everything faded into mist. The past music was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth.
Napster was a fragment of the abolished past
In the end the RIAA would announce that a sharp was a flat, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.
What Taiwan is really afraid of (Score:2)
Re:There is a way (Score:2)
Yeah. Just remain calm and focus on your studies while we drag away your fellow students to either be questioned or jailed for the horrific crime of trading mp3s.
And while we're turning the place upside down looking for mp3s we might also find other subversive contraband.
Sounds to me like... (Score:2)
(Evil Music Industry Spy): OK you little pirate scum, what's the password?
(Innocent College Student): ********, sir.
(Evil Music Industry Spy): Hmm, only GPL'd software here, no MP3's in here. Let's move on. Sorry to bother you.
(Innocent College Pirate^H^H^H^H^H^H Student): Oh, No Problem (evil grin)
Re:MP3s are getting a bad name (Score:2)
Same Old... (Score:3)
"Let's single out somone and beat them into the ground with lawsuits, jail etc... and soon people will be afraid to cross us. We Rule!" The Music Industry.
We live in a strange world, and it keeps getting BETTER!
Arathres
I love my iBook. I use it to run Linux!
Re:People getting screwed (Score:2)
Three things make being a student "different", with respect to the government:
1. Students are in the most impressionable stage of their lives, one reason why so much effort is concentrated on the educational establishment by special interests (enviro-wackos, wacko cause `celeb-of-the-month, and any other radical, pro-GOVERNMENT authority groups). By wacking some students, the government can use the terroristic fear to silence and affect thousands more. And they carry this fear to their adult professional lives.
2. Most schools, obviously, are run and owned by the government, and thus government is allowed to circumvent many laws with regard to access and search. It's probably Unconstitutional, but the courts have seemingly long since given up on demaning ANY substantive "probable cause" for issuing warrants.
3. Students are students. NOT working professionals. This means they are not earning significant income, and thus, are far less likely to be able to turn around and fight back with any effect. In other words, students are vulnerable to being exploited by the legal system, where the public defenders are most likely IN bed with the local legal "establishment" or else too incompetent to be hired by the corpers and strike it rich.
Re:People getting screwed (Score:2)
Which they SHOULD be. I really don't understand how schools get away with the level of "co-operation" with government in conducting such raids. I also don't understand how there can be ANY legal difference between a home you own or rent off campus, with a dorm you RENT on campus!
IMO, the difference has more to do with the campus dorm being GOVERNMENT PROPERTY and the private, off campus apartment being PRIVATE property.
Re:Down with the students! May they burn in hell! (Score:2)
Could this be like the way we do it here in the USA? After all, we have violent criminals being let loose by the thousand every day to make jail space for largely non-violent drug offenders... (and, it should be noted, largely "somehow" letting the VIOLENT drug lords get away).
It's VERY out of whack! The punishment no longer fits the crime anywhere in the USA. As one poster pointed out on an earlier
Just like any other profession, law enforcement would rather take lower-risk path of arresting people less likely to kill them. Hell, they will jump right on this bandwagon! Mp3 users are a lot less likely to kill cops than are even drug users!
Re:People getting screwed (Score:2)
I was more commentin on the rash of college dorm raids in the USA that have been
Re:What if they try this here? (Score:2)
I'm not advocating such violence. However, the government has shown an increasing willingness to violate the law, especially in these armed stormtrooper raids. Sooner or later, something is going to happen.
Re:What to make of this? (Score:2)
Even mom and pop store owners have more political clout than an unemployed student. I think some others are right, piracy is rampant in Taiwan, and the government went along with this to both appease the RIAA (making it look like they will crack down), but yet not do anything to anger their own business community.
So, they bust those not making money off piracy and let the ones that ARE scoot... Isn't that rather like how the USA treats the "drug war"?
Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (Score:2)
We have that law here in the USA now... The DMCA. The MPAA has already gotten a utility (DeCSS) declared so illegal that you can't even link to it. What does DeCSS do? It allows you to watch a DVD that you bought on the OS or player of your choice...
Just because DeCSS COULD be used to eliminate CSS encryption, it's "illegal paraphenalia".
Re:Down with the students! May they burn in hell! (Score:2)
Of course they don't make them. But they do enforce them. And it's plain to anyone that the police tend to be more likely to enforce the laws that:
1. Realize revenue (ie: the high percentage of cops you see sitting by the road with a radar gun)
2. Get arrests with a low likelyhood of danger (drug arrests).
It is rare to see the police pursue a violent crime or the drug BOSSES with the same zeal that they do speeders and drug users. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that going after speeders and drug users probably represents over 90% of what the police DOES!
Raiding college dorms for MP3 users is an even more attractive job for the cops, as there is virtually NO risk.
After all, a MP3 never killed anyone, did it?
Re:What if they try this here? (Score:2)
But it DOES mean that it was not done in a CONSTITUTIONAL (meaning illegal) manner. Laws are supposed to be made by CONGRESS, not by the President or an unelected bureaucracy.
But then, laws are often passed by Congress without a debate... The DMCA was one of them. IMO, whenever you have something that is slipped in the cover of darkness into law (such as the ergonomic rules and of course, the DMCA) it's almost always BAD LAW.
If there is to be widespread regulation of business, it needs to be done in the open. The ergonomics rules would have cost US business billions of dollars for what may be no public benefit. And that cost will be paid by EVERYONE. People will lose jobs, and products will become more expensive.
All the more reason why there needs to be PUBLIC debate by our representatives before such rules would be enacted.
BTW, I scoff at most of these so-called "carpal tunnel" and RSI "injuries" with relation to computer equipment. I've been using computer keyboards for many hours a day since I was 8 years old. I'm now 28 and have NEVER had any problem, nor would it seem likely to me that I ever will.
You do realize, that if executive order was used in the manner Clinton did with the ergonomics rules, the president could, by fiat, outlaw MP3's, or give the BATF authority to "regulate" them.
What if they try this here? (Score:3)
And I have one question: Even IF the RIAA busts into your apartment and seizes your hard drive full of MP3's, HOW can they prove that they aren't tracks you made from music that you had bought? Even if they WERENT? I have yet to see a CD or casette come with a software like "shrink wrap EULA" that states that you have to keep the license and originals as proof of purchase.
After all, there is a well established, Constitutionally protected right of "fair use" (though being eroded constantly by moronc Federal "judges" (Kaplan) and illegal statutory law (DMCA).
Also, in the USA, you are legally innocent UNTIL they prove you guilty beyond a REASONABLE doubt. They have to PROVE that you didn't make those MP3's from stuff you'd bought over the years, but may not have kept the originals. Thus it seems likely that it would be hard to make any such case stick, unless they could seize logs or something that showed you using Napster.
However, as we well know, the corpers are writing the laws and are paying the lawyers who become judges (Kaplan). Just as the DeCSS case verdict was irrational, Constitutionally illegal, and indefensible (as was Kaplan's conflicted conduct), there is sure to be a RIAA vs. Joe Napster user that will be just as stupid.
What is happening, IMO, is the RIAA is trying to establish a precedent somewhere, that they can then con some local or Federal jackboots into following HERE, to treat people who have MP3's like drug dealers and software Warez sellers.
If this starts happening here, well, now you anti-gun ownership people understand the argument that I and others make for the reason BEHIND the fact that the Founders included the right to "keep and bear arms" right in the second amendment. The right to bear arms is intended to keep the government in line, and within the law.
To be honest, though, I wonder if the RIAA realizes what would happen if they started such raids in the USA? I think there would be a CONSIDERABLE public backlash against them.
Or maybe I'm putting too much faith in the sheep masses who keep voting for the same two (one) party system all the time. The same parties that are so similar in their desire to kowtow to the corpers that they unanimously, and secretly, voice voted in the DMCA.
Re:What if they try this here? (Score:3)
No, the "ergonomics" rules (passed by no legislature, with no public debate, but IMPOSED in an autocratic fashion by executive "fiat") were put in place to appease the Trial Lawyers.
The US Trial Lawyers are the largest contributors to the Democratic Party. The more regulations, the more money THEY make.
How can you NOT call the plantiff's lawyer industry a BIG BUSINESS?
not so fast (Score:2)
Sure Asia has some strict laws [internet.com], but telling people to break them is not the solution, and will only enforce their government's petty stance on regulations. What the students should do is protest, make the world aware of the harsh sentences being imposed in their countries. Lobby to get them removed
If some states in the US started trying to circumvent drug laws by hiding their "stashes" their breaking the laws just as well so you can't have it one way and not the other. Fsck yea I disagree with someone like the government's bs, but at the same time a rule is a rule no matter how you cut it.
Now on the flip side of things, I hope their doing a good enough job of ridding their songs. If not they could use BCWipe [jetico.com] to rid them, or if their laws allow for encryption, they could write an hourly cron script to tar then pgp them without destroying evidence.
Personally some of those students who are protesting, should look into getting into politics to ease things for their future kin.
use the source! [antioffline.com]
Re:not so fast (Score:2)
quote source [sinomania.com]
Re:not so fast (Score:2)
However, imagine YOU are a student in a country where 12 years ago the government killed it's own people for peaceful protest. Do you go out on the streets over some MP3s? Personally I would move, and if under given circumstances I couldn't then yes I would look into raising awareness via form of protest or other methods, such as switching into the political realm so future folk would not have to deal with it.
Re:not so fast (Score:2)
know your role (Score:2)
Don't be mislead, I sympathize with the families of those lost in that massacre, but at the same time, common sense would tell some, that another repeat of that incident would be rare, and their political officials know it would impact their economy in a harsh fashion.
So to just rant on about Tiananment Square is opening up a can of worms, only the worms are dead... Meaningless at this point.
pseudo babble (Score:2)
Again I also stated that those who are oppressed should look into getting into politics now to aviod having their kin subjected to this in the future. I don't disagree with your points, maybe I'm too tired to take them for what their worth, and I sincerely agree with most of the things you've said to an extent. About the westernization, you have to understand, they have to form their own laws, judgments, etc., its kind of like what the US had in the 60's in the form of racism, its a long road but slowly, people are moving towards better modes of life.
Re:IFPI completely missing "clue" (Score:3)
Agreed, but thinking the government is going to attack "cities of industry" within criminal enterprises is like telling them "Go to war" as opposes to just finding a scapegoat. Maybe I'm not saying it right since I'm tired as shit so let me rephrase.
If some of these criminal enterprises are contributing money to anyone in underhanded fashions, then it'd be easier to their music industry to pass blame on students, and have the government go after them.
At least in the U.S., the CDs we buy in stores are bona fide copies. Now, I'm no fan of RIAA; I believe that they don't really serve a purpose other than to promote a monopolistic view for music, to keep the recording industry's profit margins nice and fat while the common artist is screwed.
Well out here in New York City, there is a slight problem with bootleg copies of music, in fact (no bullshit) while passing by Federl Plaza last week there were bootleggers selling those CD's in front of the FBI's headquarters. (The bootleggers don't worry though, government only goes after cypherpunks [about.com]. I think there are more important issues than going after the students as well. As for the RIAA, its a business like any other one, they do what they can to generate their revenue, its all fair game.
know your law (Score:3)
I totally disagree with him getting shafted on a trial for so long, and one of the things I blame on society is their lack of knowledge regarding computer crimes, etc., etc., and the so called "jury of your peers" bs.
Referencing Kevin is like a pro doo hickey radical coming here, and saying something like "Well Timothy McVeigh was right to think that be committing his crime, he would make those aware of the bs gov is spewing on groups like those in Waco" or something like that.
Kevin was a criminal no one gave him permission to go into any of those networks, had it been a flip side situation where he was contemplating selling information he garnered, (which no one but him will ever know) people would've called for harsh sentencing.
Re:Legal terrorism by corporations (Score:2)
*Bzzzzt*! Wrong! If terrorists struck the small, irrelevant targets, no one would care about terrorism. Seriously, terrorism is a serious threat in our country, largely due to the World Trade Center bombing. You take out an 80 story building and people notice. If those guys had done what you suggested and said "Hey Shiek Ahmed, you busy? Let's go bomb some old lady's barn in the middle of Hicksville." No one would have cared, because they're attacking an obscure an inconsequential part of society. True, the little guys don't hold out as long in a fight, but nobody notices, and that's the whole point of terrorism.
There is a way (Score:3)
Re:What if they try this here? (Score:3)
I really wish people like Nader would stop insisting that there is no difference between Bush and Gore. I think Bush has proven in the first 100 days how far away from Gore he actually is on the environment, the abortion debate, worker safety, the energy crisis, gun regulations, Justice Department priorities (see Microsoft case), the worldwide AIDS epidemic, the degree of separation of church and state, acceptable levels of judicial activism, military intervention, school vouchers, taxes, and foreign policy. Dubya is not as moderate as he would have us believe during the election. About the only thing the parties have in common is the relentless pursuit of fundraising and the willingness to be corrupted by it.
But Democrats are also beholden to labor unions and environmental groups, and Republicans are beholden to the war hawks and religious right. The split among Democrats was shown during the WTO and NAFTA debates; the split among Republicans during this latest China mess
Yes, Clinton has NAFTA, the WTO, and Marc Rich to answer for. But do you honestly think the ergonomic rules, national monument designations, or arsenic rules were examples of Clinton bowing to the wishes of big business?
There are even difference within the Democratic and Republican parties. It would be intellectually dishonest to say Sen. John Breaux shared every view with Rep. Maxine Waters, or that Sen. Olympia Snowe was in lockstep with Sen. Strom Thurmond. Guess what? Nader LIED, like EVERY other politician does, in order to secure your vote. Don't get me wrong, a lot of what Nader said about corporate power in this country made a lot of sense, and I agreed with it. But if the best that the Greens can do is to mischaracterize 90% of the politicians as "one and the same," instead of convincing people of the strength of their platform, it's no wonder that they never get very far in national elections.
Unfortunately these two parties do agree on the topic of copyright in the digital age (because basically they listen to whatever the *AA tells them). It has a lot to do with money, but it also has a lot to do with the power the media conglomerates hold in this country. The companies that own the news organizations also own record companies and movie studios. Today we live in the age of television and 24 hour news coverage. Most are too afraid to do anything to hurt the media conglomerates' bottom line because politicians are so dependent upon positive media coverage.
As for many of the "sheep," copyright law isn't as important to them as it is to you or me. Most are more concerned with issues like abortion, education, and taxes. These are places where the parties differ.
Music industry does it again * rant * (Score:2)
You finding Ling-Ling's head?
Someone come into yard, kill dog.