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DoubleClick Banner Ad Patent Busted 118
RWoody writes "Noticed today that BountyQuest paid
$10 Grand to a porn king for info on the DoubleClick banner ad patent. As always, the porn guys were way ahead of the curve: he had an ad affiliate program long before DoubleClick. Also noticed that they started going after copyrights as well as patents. Not much help for Napster, but I bet there are plenty of companies being pushed around by bogus copyrights, just like with bogus patents."
Ummm... (Score:2)
Talk to me again when an appeals court rules against DoubleClick.
HOOOWAH! (Score:1)
Just think if people patented/copywrited back when cars 1st came out. Ford wouldn't have been able to reverse engineer the automobile (or fix them for that matter) and never came up with the assembly line.
Now again, think that if he had patened that idea/technology, where would we be today?
Re:Yeah! (Score:2)
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As a woman of higher stanards: (Score:1)
Really, this is quite embarassing.
Hey that is my tech from 1998 :-) (Score:1)
Re:The system works. (Score:1)
Re:There's proof... (Score:1)
Re:it just goes to show (Score:1)
Wireless internet? So _that's_ what made color PDAs possible. If you don't belive me, just look at the name, "Palm Pilot"... double entendre?
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*Double* Click? (Score:2)
-Waldo
Mother Nature sues!! (Score:1)
Biotech firm, Slice and Dice Them had this to say, "We do not believe that this Mother company has any rights to our methods of gene manipulation and we don't have much time for these freeloaders that are trying to capitalize on our hard work."
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Re:Ummm... (Score:3)
While some might say DoubleClick's use of cookies is the most insidious part of their patent, I believe it is a significant enough improvement over the porn king's business plan to make it's patent still stand up. At any rate is is far to soon to proclaim that DoubleClick's patent is "busted".
Re:Anti-popups (Score:1)
Innovation in the porn industry is usually some desparate schmuch looking for an angle and with nothing left to lose. Its not even big porn names that adopt tech, its the usual case of some greaser facing bankruptcy. Pornographers have never been responsible for tech or even the first to adopt new tech. They use established (packaged, usually) tech early and their visibility gives people the exact mistaken impression you have.
I would not be surprised if this guy who claimed the 10,000 on behalf of his banner tracking software did nothing but add minor embellishishments to some pre-existing banner perl script.
Re:Gotta love those porn guys... (Score:2)
-jon
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:1)
It was a soap opera ("Nudlar och nollåttor", for those of you who like Swedish) that was sent simultaneously in the two state owned channels, where you could choose your angle by switching channels.
It was a complete fiasco, though, and apart from being an interesting experiment all it did for me was that it occupied both the two good channels that don't have commercials...
Re:A credit to the industry... (Score:2)
I don't really know the exact legalities since I have interest in either pornography nor prostitution, although it's certainly a case of a double standard. <sarcasm> But we all know Freedom of Speech trumps everything, including common sense, morality and other rights. </sarcasm>
Re:Copyrights? (Score:1)
Nice work, Focker!
Re:Anti-popups (Score:2)
Innovation rarely takes the form of creating new technologies, but in making what exists easier to use and more efficient. Or in finding different ways to use it. In other words, creating a better mouse trap. I don't think you can deny the porn industry has come up with several of those in their time.
-Rob Nolan
XPICS! (Score:2)
On the other hand, getting money from them, well that was a different story. A few years back me and my friends wrote some http client emulators and raped that company for a lot of money, a lot. More then he got for ousting this patent, anyway. (Almost as bad as he raped his 'customers') Hey, the agreement was based on unique IPs not people, and I was a crusader against bad porn and unethical companies, um, yeh.
sigh if only the money was as free now as it was thing,
Rate me on Picture-rate.com [picture-rate.com]
Re:Anti-popups (Score:1)
First of all, porn sites are as much a hit and miss affair as other sites. They come and go with at least the same frequency as any other e business. My main point is that its bad enough that pornographers exaggerate their status, now we also have people like you who make similiar claims without ever having seen their books.
Do a search for Warshevsky on wired - this is the self described mogul, the million dollar brain behind club love and the pamela anderson videos. This guy is facing bankruptcy.
Look at the guy who won the 10,000$. This guy ran xpics. xpics was found guilty of credit card fraud amongst other fraudulent activity. This is "success" to you??
Search that soft core rag, salon.com, for their articles on the porn industry. This is _not_ an industry that anyone looking for success will get into if they knew a few facts and they had a few alternatives.
It's an over hyped scam from content to book keeping, every step of the way.
I'm a pornographer. I know how this business works. I know who has the money and who doesnt. I do but that's only because I was around since before even playboy and penthouse put up their shingle on the web.
And dissing someone becuase they may have repurposed some perl code in a new way? Never heard of that? jeez.....
I'm not dissing anyone. I'm telling you that the porn industry is not responsible for a single technological innovation.
Re:What does this have to do with Napster? (Score:1)
Re:Anti-popups (Score:1)
In 1996 the internet was already satiated with porn sites, all of them doing the same thing and not one of those same things was any different than what you would find on sites which didnt feature naked people.
You seem to be quite reluctant about these guys, don't you ?
Not as reluctant as I am about tiresome slashdot pundits arguing from incomplete, innacurate information. Its just a bald faced lie; the porn industry isnt responsible for any technology, not ever. They are just visible when they adopt existing technology. That is it.
Re:Bountyquest has some silly stuff (Score:1)
Prior art is prior art. If the patented technique was disclosed before they applied for the patent, the patent isn't valid. The fact that Oracle owns Rdb now doesn't make any difference.
Re:Anti-popups (Score:1)
I was there and I cant tell you they were *among the first* to develop such stuff in Java in 1996.
BTW, not that I have that huge knowledge of pr0n, but it seems to me that few other people dared to charge via applet based secure credit card pament system.
But well, you are much more extreme than me by having your position as at least, I were there and I could appreciate what was going on there (I also developped huge systems for others companies but no one included these features).
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Fight Patents Foundation? (Score:1)
I think one possible solution to the problem of bad patents is to set up a sort of Foundation that takes donations and uses them to research and prove prior art (or something) on bad patents.
Re:Captain Obvious Rides Again (Score:2)
This has already been discussed here several times. My response from the last round can be found here [verizon.net].
That's actually my old website. The main one seems to be down.
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:1)
And how would you know this???
Re:Gotta love those porn guys... (Score:1)
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:1)
I'm not a porn dvd viewer myself, so I can't say if multiple angles is done for certain scenes, or if you can view the entire "movie" from different angles.
This would be interesting for interactive childrens dvds too... imagine a full length feature using "build your own adventure[1]" type stories.
[1] Some books I read as a kid (early-mid 80s) were "Build your own adventure" books, where you'd get to the bottom of a page and it would say something like "do you jump into the time machine or keep running? If you jump in, turn to page 42, if you keep running, turn to page 24". They were quite fun IIRC.
Re:There's proof... (Score:2)
Captain Obvious Rides Again (Score:5)
If disclosure is a problem - just issue ALL (*everything* not just technology) patents with a 2-3-4mos. 'community review period. Simple. No more bad patents.
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:1)
ONEPOINT
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Re:Ummm... (Score:2)
Copyrights? (Score:3)
I doubt there's going to be any porn king who comes along and says that he actually wrote "Fields of Gold" and "Enter Sandman," although that definitely would help out napster users.
p0rn and pri0r art. (Score:5)
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Tennis patents (Score:4)
(from http://www.abanet.org/journal/mar01/fstate.html)?
Similarly, Serena and Venus Williams could clobber Kevin and George Repper in a doubles match on a tennis court. The Reppers, though, could force a rematch in federal court if the swinging sisters dared to appropriate their patented tennis stroke. As described in the abstract of patent No. 5,993,336 (Nov. 30, 1999), this technique consists of wearing kneepads and swatting the ball "either while the covered knee is on the tennis court surface or just prior to the knee contacting the tennis court surface." This innovation "enables a player to successfully return balls that otherwise are out of effective stroking reach," the patent claim concludes.
Someone prove prior art by posting a picture of yourself wearing kneepads
proof of concept (Score:1)
Now I know it's not multiple angles but the idea of seeing the storyline from another perspective is symular.
someone will know the movie and the author
ONEPOINT
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Captain Duh Strikes Out Against Captain Obvious (Score:1)
-jhp
Hmmm... (Score:1)
Anti-popups (Score:2)
Re:maybe... (Score:2)
There's no incentive for the USPTO to care about prior art -- they get paid more when they issue a patent than when they turn it down, and doing their own search is just added overhead. We'll keep getting these bogus patents until some branch of the government slaps them silly and stops rewarding the practise. (And the PTO operates on the funds it collects, it doesn't just pass it through to the general fund.)
Re:Gotta love those porn guys... (Score:1)
Re:Anti-popups (Score:1)
That would depend on what you mean by 'better.' But do even they do that much? No doubt they've popularized VHS and javascript horrors but they havent improved them one ioata. Give me an example of this better mousetrap you speak of. I cannot think of any. Streaming video? I'll buy you a night out with a hooker if you cite some pornographer in the credits of a codec. There is very little technology in use in the porn industry. It shouldnt be too difficult to find an example of innovation in that death of examples.
I don't think you can deny the porn industry has come up with several of those in their time.
For instance?
pioneers to police (Score:1)
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:2)
Our favorite band, Metallica, also was among the first to use multiple angles, in Cunning Stunts, which I believe was released way back in 1998. I seem to remember that five songs were available with different angles, though you couldn't switch angles in the middle of the song.
I think the main reason that the non-porn film industry isn't taking advantage is this: in the porn-biz, the directors really don't have much/any power, while Hollywood revolves around directors. I'm sure that a lot of directors feel that their conception of the angles to use is the best, and that us lowly viewers couldn't change the angles without ruining their grand artistic vision.
Re:it just goes to show (Score:2)
Re:Great... (Score:1)
Re:A credit to the industry... (Score:1)
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Re:proof of concept (Score:2)
I think we're not that far away from one of the TV networks pulling a similar stunt. Big Brother was sort of this idea (the viewers influence the "plot"), but I can see this applied to a miniseries or perhaps a show like ER. At the end of each episode they show a blurb for nbc.com or what not and the voters decide what happens next. I suppose the soaps could do a similar thing, as well.
Re:Captain Obvious Rides Again (Score:1)
Metallica and copyright (Score:1)
Re:it just goes to show (Score:1)
Re:Great... (Score:1)
Re:Anti-popups (Score:2)
Re:it just goes to show (Score:2)
Excellent! (Score:3)
:)
Yeah! (Score:1)
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The system works. (Score:1)
Bounty Hunter (Score:1)
Great... (Score:3)
Dancin Santa
A credit to the industry... (Score:3)
Funny enough, the pr0n industry seems to be way ahead of the curve because there's so much profit to be made with relatively few expenses...
Small start up costs mean lots of businesses will spring up quickly. Perhaps, Napster should consider distributing music through steganographically-encoded XXX pictures? I'm sure they would have a lot of financial backing...
pr0n saves. (Score:3)
Re:There's proof... (Score:2)
What a pile of bullshit! (Score:1)
Re:pr0n saves. (Score:3)
Re:Yeah! (Score:1)
Legally enforceable? (Score:2)
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:1)
Alternate angles also have the annoying habit of choking some of the older standalone DVD players. Again, marginal compatability is something that porn can get away with but film houses generally can't.
Talk about it, it will go away, or the talk will. (Score:1)
3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!
Re:Gotta love those porn guys... (Score:2)
it's not just on the internet. who do you think it is that uses the alternate camera angle feature on dvds? who do you think was the first to accept vhs? the porn industry has been innovating for much longer than microsoft, and on top of that, they're better at it.
Re:Patented Comments (Score:1)
>and patenting, would that give me the right to sue someone for it,
>because I was too lazy to capitalize on patenting and copyrights?
Not if you just had an idea. But if you formulated and *used* that idea - as Schuster apparently did in his defunct advertising service - then yes, you'd have a case against someone who tried to (or did) patent the idea.
I do agree with you though, I don't think there are many cases where code or implementation of code should be patentable.
Shaun
Re:Copyrights? (Score:1)
BountyQuest (Score:1)
What does this have to do with Napster? (Score:3)
Re:Great... (Score:1)
Re:Captain Duh Strikes Out Against Captain Obvious (Score:1)
I suppose the saying is true; (Score:1)
Xpics rules! (Score:1)
Re:Anti-popups (Score:2)
The list goes on and on. You're just out of the loop.
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:1)
Good choice of words
Re:Anti-popups (Score:1)
I like pr0n :) (Score:1)
Re:Anti-popups (Score:1)
Re:Anti-popups (Score:2)
It consisted of developing the following in java:
(I actually had no idea about this while I was there.
Thanks for respecting me, guys!
anyway, I might have refused the offer, if I had known what it consisted of)
What I mean is that, as in the case of the French Minitel, only the pr0n-makers could afford to spend that much money in R&D as tat these times they were the oly ones to make money out of their websites.
So, which new technologies did the pr0n industry bring to the civilized world?
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Bountyquest has some silly stuff (Score:1)
They don't seem to realize that Oracle bought the rights to Rdb, so they already own this so-called "prior art!"
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
The reason is more obvious (Score:1)
Regular movies are created for a regular screen in a regular theatre. The dvd doesn't do anything that the screen can't do.
Porn movies are often shot straight for DVD, so they can put the extra dvd stuff in there.
With a regular movie there's no real need for multiple angles anyway. I would like to movies as the director intended. Besides, with all the stunts and camera tricks they pull, it wouldn't be practical to shoot from simoutaneous angles.
Porn is the "real thing". no sleight of hand or anything so extra camera angles are practical.
Our favorite porn exploitation. (Score:1)
There's proof... (Score:3)
maybe... (Score:2)
Gotta love those porn guys... (Score:5)
You know, seriously, part of me wonders just how much innovation over the internet has come as a direct result of the demands of the porn industry. I mean, where else is personal security being violated more of an embarassment? Where else are video demands as high? I remember when our government office was looking at having some of their meetings broadcast live over the internet, and were wondering if it was possible, and I wanted to say, "Sure! Heh heh, just check out this site over here..."
it just goes to show (Score:2)
they've been at the forefront of DVD, wireless internet, etc. pushing the envelope on all of them.
what a great win, especially against doubleclick.
Patent NOT busted (Score:5)
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:2)
In this case the alternate angles were only for short durations (during some of the acts like the woman balancing on one hand for 20 minutes). There was a little flashing icon in the corner to tell you that the scene had miltiple angles. Very neat.
I'd love to see this used for more stuff. Hell, I might even have to talk the wife into a couple porn DVDs just to check this out.
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Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:2)
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Re:There's proof... (Score:2)
My least favorite example of porn exploitation of a new technology: javascript
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Re:Captain Obvious Rides Again (Score:3)
Re:Gotta love those porn guys... (Score:2)
One of the main reasons that VCRs became such a common household item in the 80s was that all the new Video Rental Huts [1] had that famous "back room", with titles like "Debbie Does Dallas" and "Penthouse's Playmate of the Year Exposed." That trend was a big part of why triple X theatres largely went out of business in most cities at around the same time, and the exact same trend is also driving a lot of DVD player growth today.
People don't like to admit it in public, but the numbers don't lie -- this stuff is a big part of what drives the growth of these things. Without porn, where would we be now?
I'd bet that at least some of us may not have been born at all... ;)
[1] The joke there being a la "Akbar & Jeff's Video Hutt", with our "children's section" featuring Animal Farm. This is much funnier if you're familiar with Matt Groening's Life in Hell [crimsonbird.com] comics... Heh heh heh...
Re:There's proof...and your right (Score:2)
Faster compression was done so that the end user would not have to sit around and wait so long for the download.
more bandwidth was done because the porn industry knew it could fill the pipes.
Porn industry is way ahead the the film industry when it comes to DVD. They are currently writing storyline that have multiple viewing angle and story lines. Film industry is not even trying this yet (on dvd). Imagin watching your favorite porno and getting the shot from 5 different views
ONEPOINT
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Tangential comment (Score:2)
Of course, finding this site means that I'm not going to get any more work done this afternoon... Going to be looking for bounties, and then ill quit my job and then i'll have a bevy of prostitutes to cater to my every whim.
Yep, all part of my master plan.
Brant
Patented Comments (Score:3)
At this point what kind of an impact will people expect. Not to be sound so "anti" anything, what I will say is, he should have done something long ago instead of waiting 6+ years while DoubleClick [doubleclick.net] built a niche in the market for this service
Can someone explain to me how people are patenting free words and actions of a computer language. I don't wanna hear about "Its a nice idea" the underlying factor is, it isn't really an invention, no one physically owns code, why doesn't someone rant and sue for using their code, say Larry Wall sue DoubleClick for using Perl without his prior consent. Sure Larry Released it free, and I can theorize if he knew it would be used by "for profit" companies he would have probably released a professional copy.
Why cant this be simple such as a "move your feet lose your seat" solution. Taxpayers spend millions on this bs. Who says this is going to hinder anything, a patent is a patent. I had an idea for a lot of things people have ended up creating and patenting, would that give me the right to sue someone for it, because I was too lazy to capitalize on patenting and copyrights?
Patent Pending [antioffline.com]
Bored with sex.... (Score:2)
This bounty has little to do with the real legal world though. Only time will tell if the patent is revoked.
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