Clinton Vetoes Classified-Leaks Bill 115
Last night, I read this
New York Times article
(free reg. req.) about Clinton's veto of what would have been a new law to prevent leaks of classified information. But I didn't understand its significance until I read
this earlier Salon.com article
by Daniel Ellsburg, who had leaked the Pentagon Papers so that U.S. citizens could learn how their government had lied to them about Vietnam. "If Congress were so scrupulous about the First Amendment, it wouldn't have passed this law," says Ellsburg. I'm gratified to see a politician refusing on principle to extend government's powers. Here's
the President's statement; and here's
the bill (sponsor: Rep. Goss, R-Fla.).
Reno (Score:1)
Does anyone out there actually believe Attorney General Reno understands democracy?
Ruby Ridge? Waco??
Come on!
-the wunderhorn
Re:The horrible truth (Score:1)
This is a tremendous oversimplification: Leaks can work both ways. They may lead to deaths, but they may prevent them, as well.
Re:RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
The Salon Article (Score:1)
Last time I checked, Nixon was elected in 1968, and didn't start serving as President until 1969. That would have been obvious to him at the time, when he leaked it, but Nixon makes an easy target today, since most people won't do the math. JFK, and LBJ were responsible for getting us mired waste deep in that war, but some how Nixon takes all the heat.
Nixon wasn't blameless in the loss of human lives, just not guilty at the time of the Pentagon Papers publication.
Re:Clinton's legacy. (Score:1)
"There ought to be limits to freedom." -GWB
George W Bush (Score:1)
Do you think Dubya would have happily signed this one off? With all the rights infringing bills that get passed down from congress these days, I hate to think that there might be no one to stop them.
Re:The horrible truth (Score:1)
They have posters and stuff ALL over where I'm working talking about how you are going to serve hard time if you "share" information.
That may be espionage only though ... i'm not sure where they draw that line. For black projects probably wherever the hell they want is what i'm guessing. I'm not gonna try and find out ...
Certainly an interesting point that bears more looking into, cause it sounds like you know a lot more about it than I do ... and I think i may "need to know." sorry. :-)
dv
Re:The horrible truth (Score:1)
Certainly not looking for legal advice or anything like that! Upon finding out that the actual act of disclosing classified information isn't inherantly illegal I'm just interested in what IS.
Thanks for taking the time to provide additional info. I really appreciate it. You cleared up the a lot of the things I didn't get.
I had no idea that half of this stuff was even online!
Re:The horrible truth (Score:1)
I may be missing something but reading the legislation I don't see anything in there that isn't already being done actually, besides intel agency budget and tasking items.
Re:Good ol' Bill. (Score:1)
But if he had succeeded, who would employ Canadian doctors?
(1/4 of Canadian doctors work in America, along with numerous other refugees from Socialism. And America is footing the worlds drug development cost, along with most other medical advances. Freedom isn't free. Socialism is slavery.)
Re:Right thing, wrong reason (Score:1)
who knows, just a thought..
Re:Good ol' Bill. (Score:1)
Well, considering that my wife and I want to move to Canadia, especially if Dubya wins as it looks like he will, maybe we can arrange a swap or something?
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White House vs Slashdot effect? (Score:1)
http://www.w hit ehouse.gov/library/hot_releases/November_4_2000.h
no longer goes to the President's statement.
Perhaps the link generated too much traffic.
Perhaps the Secret Service is now closely monitoring the threat of this "slashdot.org" which seems to be attempting a DoS attack on whitehouse.gov.
Re:George W Bush (Score:1)
Yes. This is George "there ought to be limits to freedom" Bush we're talking about here.
Is that really Clinton? (Score:1)
That's the most well reasoned and intelligent thing I've ever seen come out of this administration. Someone must've replaced Clinton with a benign space alien. He even unequivocally addresses the fact that Congress is largely hostile to him at the bottom of the essay.
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
Mr. Clinton's response. (Score:1)
Re:Clinton's legacy. (Score:1)
Re:Right thing, wrong reason (Score:1)
Politics has become TOO inbred.
Re:Right thing, wrong reason (Score:1)
Re:RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
prove it.
Mafia dealings...
prove it.
Whitewater, et al....
prove it.
Underhanded campeign deals with the Chinese, etc...
prove it, or shut up.
-c
Re:RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
I actually doubt that. I know that in my little microcosm, most of the people who are disgusted with his behavior are/were mostly Democrats. I confess that I used to be an almost yellow dog democrat until about the middle of the impeachment trial, when I simply couldn't take it anymore. I'm not alone, my entire family (all lifelong democrats) feel the same way, and are planning to change registration after this current election. My priest, also a lifelong democrat, was moved to change his registration to independent, because of his disgust for the man.
I think that there are several reasons for this. My family lives in a small mining town in western Pennsylvania (yes, in a swing state). The mines don't exist anymore, but their legacy voting habits do. My old precinct had about 93% registered democrats. Registering and voting the straight ticket is what everybody just does here. Even though the party is in complete control locally, almost nobody in this area agrees with the far left leaning of the party propper. We all hunt and own guns (many guns). We feel that family bonds are important (Quayle's Family Values). Most of us favor defense spending over social programs. We elected a Pro-Life democrat governor several years ago, who was not allowed to speak at the national convention in 1996 because of his stance on this particular issue.
By and large, we are appalled at the behavior that our party tolerates in Washington (Bill, Teddy, Barney, etc.), still, most of us remain blindly loyal to this party which was responsible for the mining jobs (and utter destruction of our local environment) of our parents and grandparents. This year, many of us have finally woken up and caused a problem for Al. Holywood is trying to come to his rescue here, but it seems to be backfiring.
In contrast, when I talk to my wife's grandparents, lifelong republicans, they don't understand why everyone is so upset about Bill Clinton. I think that they are more forgiving as they have no association with him. I remember once when Sen. Packwood was brought up in their company, and they reacted much the same as I do to Clinton, with disgust because a member of their party had done something to bring shame on the party as a whole.
Only my two cents.
-- Len
Underhanded (Score:1)
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CAIMLAS
Re:RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
Sexual harassment...
All his illigal political dealings in Arkansas...
Mafia dealings...
Whitewater, et al....
Underhanded campeign deals with the Chinese, etc...
Anything else? Sure, not all of them have been proven, but it's just beuracracy at it's worst that's prevented that, alongside overpowering government that has changed laws to it's advantage. Scary thing is, Gore was in a good deal of his presidential follies.
-------
CAIMLAS
Re:and the republican record... (Score:1)
But I'm not talking about just Democrats and Republicans. I was talking specifically about Clinton. Clinton's list compares quite nicely to the entire 'Republican list,' have you. That's pathetic on Clinton's part.
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CAIMLAS
Re: RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
Does this mean I can't have something positive to say about him?
Nobody's totally evil or wrong.
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CAIMLAS
Re:Good ol' Bill. (Score:1)
Fools! (Score:1)
Clinton's legacy. (Score:1)
This veto gets him a DAMNED big score in the "good" column when it comes to toting up his legacy.
(And anyone who knows my opinion of him will understand how significant it is that he gets any praise from me at all.)
Re:More Accountability for Congress (Score:1)
b) On issues, those categories are MUCH too broad -- and this is a basic problem with polls and so forth. "Do you support Affirmative Action?", for instance, arguably deserves an essay about WHAT TYPES are being considered, for whom, why, and so forth, rather than simply breaking down views into pro- / anti-. There's a whole continuum of opinions out there, so you'd have to post their entire voting histories (including link to bill text), plus probably any speeches they made or so forth, to do 'em justice.
Re:Tried by a jury of your peers (Score:1)
My understanding is that in the Wen Ho Lee case, his attorneys threatened to try to get as much of the material thusly made public -- that is, they basically blackmailed the prosecution with threats of disclosing classified information. The Government did not want to have nuclear secrets read aloud in Court, 'natch, and backed down.
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
Re:Is that really Clinton? (Score:1)
Right thing, wrong reason (Score:1)
When the press wants something from politicians, they usually get it. The last thing any public figure wants is an angry media.
Re:The horrible truth (Score:1)
But that happens all the time. Many Americans get killed by the use of information by our media system. Desert Storm ring a bell? Not because of leaked papers or anything, but our mass marketted media programming has the ability to rally the ignorant masses into military action anytime they want. Why doesn't our congress pass a bill that says any news that ends up costing american lives gets everyone in that news conglomerate the death penalty? But I guess that would be sorta hypocritical, wouldn't it?
Re:Right thing, wrong reason (Score:1)
Now, I don't know what Clinton's motivations are. I know he's a selfish guy, but I find that pretty much everyone running for president, while they want to lead the nation, they generally also have self interest at heart. Look at Gore and Bush. Are either of them really self sacrifying guys who just care about the American people? I don't think so. They both ooze selfishness. Oh well. Go vote for Browne, or Nader if you want selfless. If you just want somebody to do a decent job of not fucking us all over, vote for Gore. If you want a loose cannon moron, vote for Bush.
Re:mirror (Score:1)
Re:Ellsburg (Score:1)
-J
Wow... (Score:1)
Wish I could vote for Clinton again :-( (Score:1)
Re:Right thing, wrong reason (Score:1)
It will come back to haunt us if Dubya wins.
blessings,
Re:Mr. Clinton's response. (Score:1)
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
The reality is that most of the money going into social programmes comes from the people who don't really miss money much--the rich people. 5% of Bill Gates' paycheck won't bother Bill Gates much but it will feed a huge amount of hungry people.
You go watch those people die of starvation and then you tell me about how Bill Gates has a right to that extra 5% of his money.
Why this was a good bill. (Score:1)
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
Re:The horrible truth (Score:1)
My view of the vetoed law is simply that I think it was not a good idea as a matter of public policy to have a General Secrets Act in this country. They do have a General Secrets Act in Britain, but then in Britain the rights of free speech and free press are very different. At present there are many administrative penalties, and there is the possibility of criminal prosecution under certain circumstances, but only under those certain circumstances. Leaking info to the press may in certain circumstances be criminal presently (e.g., there was a man who went to prison for giving a magazine a spy photo of a Russian aircraft carrier in the mid 80s) but in many cases it may not be (because the disclosure of the info in question would not be prejudicial to the interests or safety of the US), although of course the leaker could lose his job or his clearance.
Take a look at the statutes, executive orders and regulations relating to national security for yourself. Executive Order 12958 is informative as it defines the framework of the classification system, and to look at it go here [whitehouse.gov] and search for 12958. Another very informative source of information is a booklet [fas.org] published by the Information Security Oversight Office [fas.org] that explains the classification scheme; especially enlightening is the FAQ at the end of the booklet.
All of these statutes and regs require more than the simple fact that information has been administratively classified as confidential as a predicate for the imposition of criminal liability. For example, some of these statutes [cornell.edu] require that the disclosure be harmful to the safety or interests of the United States or beneficial to the interests of a foreign government to the detriment of the U.S. And there is criminal liability [cornell.edu] for misappropriation of government property, such as physical documents. Others provide penalties for any unauthorized disclosure in any circumstances of certain categories: such as diplomatic codes [cornell.edu], such as nuclear weapon designs, and the identity of American agents [cornell.edu]. One law [cornell.edu] certainly does allows the government to administratively classify as criminal the unauthorized disclosure of certain categories of information relating national security to people known to represent foreign governments or Communist organizations. Of course I am generalizing about these laws and a lawyer would need to dig into the language of the laws and the relevant caselaw and regulations to apply the law to a specific fact situation, but if you look at the various statutes, I think you'll see what I mean.
What these statutes do not do is criminalize as a general matter the unauthorized disclosure of classified information simply because it is classified. Rather, there have to be some added circumstances. Leaking information (as long as they are not codes or nuclear secrets or the names of covert agents) to the American press or to Congress in most circumstances (i.e. when it does not harm the interests of the United States)will usually not be a criminal act under present law
I certainly would never encourage people who have signed a Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement to violate their oaths lightly, as I think that there are many activities that our government engages in that would be best left unknown to our nation's adversaries. National security is not a light matter. However, there have been too many instances, the chief one being that of the Pentagon Papers case, where information classification has been used to try to keep essential or controversial information from other branches of government and from the American people for reasons other than that of national security. I would be very uncomfortable with a General Secrets Act, and think it would contrary to the spirit of our kind of democracy.
Ed
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
It's interesting how Bill Gates has become the equivalent of Satan or Adolph Hitler in some people's eyes. Were you aware that the vast portion of his fortune will end up in the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation [gatesfoundation.org]? He's already transferred enough of his money to it to give it one of the largest endowments of any foundation in the world. Did you know that the foundation will be dedicated to providing vaccinations and health care to the people of the third world? Do you have one single idea about what you're bleating about? I thought not. You're more interested in bitching about how the damned 'rich' people don't really need all that money they earned, and so let's just take it from them. Here's a free clue: it's the 'rich' who employ people. You wanna see starvation and poverty, take the money away so that they can't hire you.
Re:One step on a long road (Score:1)
Re:RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
Now this is off-topic, -1
Never underestimate the power of the letter j
Read Clinton's Statement (Score:1)
Re: RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
He is the smartest president you will get in more that 30 years. He did his best to serve this country and in no way did he intend to do it any harm.
It is unfortunate that the majority of the population are either brain washed by the media, or have their pockets as their main interest.
Re: Underhanded (Score:1)
Re:History Repeats (Score:1)
Now, about Clinton. Yes he signed into law some terrible laws like the Anti-terrorism act DMCA, etc. Did I wish he wouldn't? sure. Did I wish he'd show more leadership on this? You bet. But it is a bit exagerated to blame Clinton for a national disgrace that is everyone's.
Re:History Repeats (Score:1)
Clinton is a politician. He has to deal with a hostile and pretty dreadful congress. He has to pick his fights strategically, and guess what is his way of choosing. He won't pick up a fight that won't resonate with middle class voters and most middle class voters cannot understand what is wrong with the DMCA or with putting a few bearded muslims in jail for speaking while being Muslim.
He will fight congress wherever he can see political gain, and it's the job of civic organizations to deliver political gain to those politicians who protect liberty.
It seems that the area of larger than life leaders, for all our desire, is over for a while. (and Clinton has been pretty large--that is why so many people hate him). We get poll-driven politicians. And if liberty fails at the poll, don't build on politicians to save us from our own apathy.
Clinton (Score:1)
And b) when the media really cares about freedom the President ( this one at least) will cave in.
The next one will probably just smile and say, don't worry, I'm the leader, that is leadership, blah blah blah, let's not divide ourselves into this classissified documentation issue. blah blah, every one should be an account, sorry, accountable, blah the media shouldn't hold the first ammendment hostile to the security of the nation, blah blah.
Re:Repeal the 22nd amendment! (Score:1)
Repeal the 22nd amendment! (Score:1)
Re: RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
Re: RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
Re: RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
You're all just a bunch of goddamn communists (Score:1)
It makes sense that governments in general try to do the best job they can, from their point of view. Scum like Daniel Ellsburg endanger lives for their own profit and egos, when they leak documents by exposing agents under cover who often put their lives on the line for their country.
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
Tax cuts in the form of corporate welrafe
Bush's tax cuts will only continue perpetuating the national debt.
Taxes happen, deal with 'em, and if you're so worried about taxes, find a job that pays more.
Re:This is scary (Score:1)
This rabid greed and you-can't-have-it mentality is a depressing statement of exactly the sort of thing that capitalism breeds. Sigh.
In his own interest? (Score:1)
Re:Ellsburg (Score:1)
food for thought.... (Score:1)
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Re:More Accountability for Congress (Score:1)
How about we make serving in the legislature a requirement, like jury duty? Ok, seriously, I see term limits as being one big improvement. It's certainly done quite a bit to break up the dynastic power cliques that used to rule the California legislature. And it's finally gotten us a year in which Bill Clinton isn't running, thank God. Extending term limits to the U.S. congress would be a good thing, IMO.
Re: RAPID APPLAUD (Score:1)
As opposed to the original poster's oh-so-balanced description of Clinton, huh? Pffft. Democrats just can't stand it when a conservative has a little fun at their expense; it always sends them into their reflexive rant mode. By the way, which of my statements do you dispute: that Carter was an intellectual peer with Clinton, or that Republicans have held the Congress for past 6 years?
Re:Good ol' Bill. (Score:1)
There ARE remedies to this problem, they just require political will. Doctors who draw on Canadian resources to get their medical degree at a fraction of it's actual cost should be contractually obligated to provide medical care in Canada for a period of time.
Socialism isn't slavery, it's a rational distribution of national assets. Although the talented and lucky in the U.S. may outperform their Canadian counterparts, at least we don't need to look over our shoulders and make sure the institutionalized underclass isn't ready to revolt yet. Freedom in terms of political rights (eg speech) are distinct from economic rights (eg markets). It appears to me that when these rights are in conflict in a pathologically capitalist state like the USA, it's the economic rights which win out.
By the way, anyone want to hire me to work in the US using a TN Visa?
Re:George W Bush (Score:2)
If this was meant to be a 'oooo, Bush, scarey' remark in favor of Gore, I would ask, why this faith that the guy would _not_ blithely go along with this sort of thing? I think that faith is misplaced, completely misplaced. But then I _would_ think that as I'm voting for Nader and to hell with vote trading or whatever- the Democratic Party is a corpse, and maybe some of us will have to just keep being politically active _after_ a very possibly Bush-won election.
I hope the libertarians and socialists etc etc keep being politically active too :) but I can only say that even if they don't, I will. I hope the Dems or Reps win this election and GO TO SLEEP. To wake up again four years hence to a vastly more hostile public climate...
New URL (Score:2)
Re:The horrible truth (Score:2)
True and not true -- there are three, and they deal with different kinds of classified data.
18 USC 793 -- disclosure of National Defense Information; namely, anything classified under DoD rules. In order to violate this section, you don't have to have lawful access to classified info; you only have to disclose "information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation" to those "not entitled to receive it". Punishment: 10 years, $250,000.
18 USC 798 -- Codes, ciphers, and communications intelligence. The difference in this one, as I've heard it explained, is that 793 requires you to know that it's classified and that you're willfully violating the law. Under this law, it's enough that you disclose the information at all. Punishment, 10 years, $250,000.
18 USC 794 -- The big one: the espionage statute. To be in violation of this law, you have to willfully deliver "information relating to the national defense" to a foreign government or agent of a foreign power, "with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States." The bar to be in violation of this law is very high -- while disclosure of any kind of information could result in prosecution under this statute, prosecution must prove you knew the U.S. would be harmed. That's not the case in the previous two sections. Punishment: Death, or life imprisonment.
This latest act would effectively lower the bar for prosecution under the first two sections: Even if the material isn't directly defense-related, and even if you don't have a clearance to hold it yourself, and regardless of intent, you could still be prosecuted for releasing any information the gov't considers classified, and be subject to the same penalties.
Thus, whistleblowers disclosing non-defense, non-crypto classified information, who would have a much harder time being prosecuted under 793 and 798, have a lot more to fear from this act. Espionage disclosures still are and have always been illegal under 794, and you could always make a case for reckless endagerment or other laws if someone gets killed because of your actions.
I commend President Clinton for opposing it -- I was surprised to see that he did.
Re:Good ol' Bill. (Score:2)
Ha! Rational distribution of national assets... rational to the unelected bureacrats who run the government monopolies. If you disagree with them, well, that's too damn bad. Unless you've got money or ambition, then you can go to America.
Ah, so you fear the poor, and think if you give them goodies they'll leave you alone? Gee, how enlightened. I bet you'd fight the school choice bill we're going to vote on Tuesday here in Michigan that'd break the government education monopoly and give the "underclass" a decent shot at a real education.
And here's a clue: they aren't "resources", they're people, and if you have to set up barriers to keep them from running away, YOU HAVE A DYSFUNCTIONAL SYSTEM! Gotta love that Soviet thinking: "if we don't build the Berlin Wall all the smart people will leave!"
Re:clinton and this veto (Score:2)
Don't ever believe this man does anything for other than his own interest...
How unusual (Score:2)
... especially for Clinton.
________________________________________
Leaks Are Important (Score:2)
ACLU had people fax Clinton and ask him to veto. (Score:2)
Re:Right thing, wrong reason (Score:2)
He's going to retire soon. He probably does NOT want a legacy rife with mentions of impeachment, perhaps disbarment, and accusations of everything from perjury and rape, to espionage and conspiracy to commit murder, with varying levels of circumstantial evidence.
Twisted post (Score:2)
It should never be illegal for somebody to expose government miss-management/corruption/lies/incompetence even if they are hidden in a shroud of Top Secret secrecy.
Re:More Accountability for Congress (Score:2)
The Constitution lays out how the Government works. Any attempt to do things differently would require an Amendment, which is a lot harder to pass than a regular law (thank goodness).
As we speak, the Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case of Missouri's representatives. The Missouri people passed a reform: "when you're elected, you must sign this form saying you'll do everything in your power to get congressional term limits passed." If they don't sign the form, a black mark appears on their re-election ballot. If they go to Washington and don't write term limits stuff, or vote against term limits stuff, another black mark. I have a feeling the Supreme Court will empathize with the voters, but strike it down; once elected, Constituents cannot force the hand of the Representative so strongly.
Smaller elements of process, such as whether House votes are done by voice or are held accountable, may be changable. I hope so. C-SPAN has gone a long way to exposing the process to so many more people, but it's no where near enough.
Re:The horrible truth (Score:2)
Ellsburg (Score:2)
And this to a bunch of 10th graders. Either a really good thing or a really bad thing; I'm not sure.
-J
Re:RAPID APPLAUD (Score:2)
Right wing propaganda. He committed perjury; he lied during an investigation on a matter unrelated to the actual investigation itself. He lied about an affair. Now how does this equate with breaking "every major law"?
I'm proud I voted for him; I'd do it again.
--
Re:The horrible truth (Score:2)
Losing your job or your clearance is one thing, and that can have a chilling effect, sure. But felony jail-time liability would have an even greater chilling effect on those occasional leaks that are important to a free society.
What Congress needs to do is look at the specific leak (it is said, I recall, to have had to do with bin Laden and the press revelation of electronic intercepts of his phone calls) which prompted this criminalization proposal, and craft a narrowly tailored offense to address it, if it was really the Congress's intent to deal with that particular situation (which it wasn't really, by the way, not in this election year with a lame duck Pres all concerned with his legacy and who was intentionally put into a political catch-22 when they timed this bill to arrive on his desk just when it did).
You can't depend on regulatory or prosecutorial discretion to take away the chilling effect of such a law, because you never know what kind of folks might get into power in the future some day, and who would put this kind of broad law to use. Read up on the various Sedition Acts which have been implemented at various times in our nation's past to see what I'm talking about.
I'm still not voting for his veep, but I am glad Clinton vetoed this law. Now, if only someone had screamed so loud before he signed the DMCA and the ATEDPA and the ...
Ed
Re:More Accountability for Congress (Score:2)
I'm not so sure. That process was employed during the battle for direct election of senators (the constitution originally had them appointed by the legislature of their state), so presumably the Supreme Court thought it was ok, at least at one time. There's an essay on the battle for direct election of senators here [senate.gov]. Unfortunately, that particular essay doesn't talk about the "black mark on the ballot" that some states employed.
Re:More Accountability for Congress (Score:2)
I agree. However, it isn't enough to just sit passively and watch. To be really effective, you have to write to your representatives and let them know the consequences of their actions. An effective control system requires feedback.
By the way, I'd add a category of "bills sponsored" to your list. Those bills which a representative endorses, not just votes for, can tell you a lot about where his/her priorities are.
Re:More Accountability for Congress (Score:2)
Never underestimate the power of the letter j
Our Nation's openness (Score:2)
I do however understand the objections that arise in the present situation and in regards to how it has been handled in the recent past of this country. Some secrets that have been kept do not need keeping and corruption or political maneuvering to mask mistakes are most likely the cause of many of these. The fact that the recent deal with Russia was kept secret (albeit a part of the agreement which I cannot understand Russia caring about) in regards to sales to Iran of arms and other things including a submarine should not have been kept secret from the people of the U.S, much less the senate! This seems to be an attempt to mask a politically unfavored action. Luckily the media uncovered this story and we now know about it. But would you favor someone leaking information to the public regarding the military deployment of our factions in a hostile situation, and having the person who leaked that information not recieve major repercussions?
I think the government needs to reform its moral values before something like this bill passes but I don't think in a better situation federally, that it would be a bad thing.
Never underestimate the power of the letter j
One step on a long road (Score:2)
But the laws which needs to be changed are still there. The worrisome thing is that laws which violate some civil rights and others which give government agencies wide authorities are being made faster than they are blocked!!
The FBI has the right to detain an emigrant without revealing any evidence.
This happened with a guy in the US who was accused to be a terrorist. After three years in PRISON without knowing why he was held, it came out that the evidence was that his X-wife presented this false claim to the FBI. This is a true story.
In the Chinese scientist case, the data which he downloaded was not classified at that time. It was classified retrospectively!
This vito came in a good right time, but it is not enough.
The elections in the coming few days will decide a lot of things especially for civil rights, privacy, health,
It is too bad that Ralph Nader has no chance of getting there; the way I see it is that the more votes he gets, the more his voice will be heard and the better will be the outlook.
Tried by a jury of your peers (Score:2)
RAPID APPLAUD (Score:3)
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CAIMLAS
The horrible truth (Score:3)
If I understand that article, however, there are no laws that currently apply to people who leak non-national-defense classified secrets.
So, basically, all this law is saying is that the same penalties that apply to one type of classified data also apply to other types of classified data.
It seems like nobody wants to admit that, from time to time, somebody leaks a story to a newspaper, the newspaper prints the story, and one or more real actual people get killed as a result. That's not very cool.
Re:Is that really Clinton? (Score:3)
Please don't take the above as criticism of President Clinton or modern day politics. I personally believe that if you are going to do something right, hire a professional (in this case a speechwriter) to do it.
Re: Underhanded (Score:3)
More Accountability for Congress (Score:3)
I personally would like to see some more comparative data on those "know your representatives" websites.
For example, lets take a bio from a fictitious Congressman Tony Schnell*:
Tony Schnell, Republican, Anystate
Serving Third Term as Congressman [list defeated opponents]
Further, with some per-visitor preferences, those sites could help you watchdog your own pet issues. "Mark voting records for/against NRA positions," "for/against affirmative-action," "for/against abortion rights," etc.
We're in a Republic, disguised as a Democracy. In either case, a well-informed constituency giving their congress careful attention is the best weapon against the grandstanding anti-progress that we see on Capitol Hill every day.
* Tony Schnell (R), one of the prime supporters of the infamous email tax [ciac.org] legislation.
Good ol' Bill. (Score:3)
Anyway, since I don't have a personal stake in the internal policies of ye olde USA, I think I have a more detached view of the whole situation. Main think I've always liked about Mr. Clinton was his charisma and beautifully-crafted public statements. Before Clinton you really hadn't had a good presidential orator in quite some time.
Also, I'll always have a soft spot for Bill because he tried to do the right thing (Socialized Medicine) even though he must have known he'd never pull it off.
The irony of it all! (Score:3)
Erosion of "Freedoms" (Score:4)
clinton and this veto (Score:5)