Internet foils high school censors...maybe 47
ctucker writes "According to this article at MSNBC, students working on school newspapers are using the internet to publish stories that are too uncomfortable for their school administrators to allow to appear in the paper." I'm skeptical of these claims. There's a big difference between being able to put up a webpage which some students might see sometime and being able to publish something in a paper distributed in school. One is not really a direct substitute for the other. Plus I've seen plenty of students get "in trouble" at school for things done entirely on their own time.
Here we go again. (Score:3)
In the aftermath of the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado, the irreverent and sometimes off-color underground newspapers are haunting reminders of the Web pages created by the student gunmen, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, in which they spewed their anger.
That is why they are a good thing. If school officials had successfully pulled Harris & Klebold's rantings off the Web, it wouldn't have done a thing to prevent what happened later. While those two obviously didn't counsel themselves to sanity, there are plenty of people for whom expression - whether it's art, music, or writing (even Web pages) - has done just that.
It's a start.... (Score:1)
When I was in high school and the faculty was really restrictive on what we could print, some friends of mine started their own grassroots sort of paper and distribute it around the school, taking it to the local print shop to get 100 copies or so printed. Our school's reasoning was that they wouldn't state mandated funds to print controversial material....
I certainly hope this will work for them, kids need to know that they can be heard too. They have a right to freedom of speech too.
yawn (Score:3)
one idea, tho--use the cuecat to provide links from the newspaper to the website! hide them in images and whatnot. it'll be cool.
(side-note: you can daisy chain cuecats for the ultimate rave experience (...within 3' of your keyboard port, at least!)
Everyone's on the web now (Score:2)
I was at a birthday party for a friend of mine, well into the days when Netscape was called Netscape Navigator (still years ago) who actualy said "The Web is the Next Big Underground Thing." We all had a good laugh, and explained to her that you don't get much more above-ground than the internet.
You want an example? My company does the N'Sync website. It's the most popular music site on the internet, period. What do you suppose the average age of our viewers is? I'm guessing it's mostly kids/teens.
So, given that just about every kid has a computer and is on the internet, putting up that kind of information on a website is a reasonable thing to do. I'd personally get tee shirts printed up with the URL and wear them around campus, write the URL on the chalk/whiteboard when I walked into class and the teach was absent, et cetera.
I visit URLs whose content I don't already know all the time. If I see a URL alone on a bumpersticker or something and I remember it, I tend to visit it. Most of the time I just close the window I'm using for it not long after it shows up (with about a 50/50 chance of further porn or ad popups - I want to kill the person at netscape who thought up that onClose() nonsense) and move on with my life, but I do look at them, and I'm guessing the students would, too.
Re:Ah, high school. (Score:1)
Great... for priviledged teens. (Score:2)
That would be in poor urban or rural schools where some very real unsafe conditions exist, conditions only students are likely to encounter, and that aren't likely to be brought to the general public's attention without someone crying foul, and getting noticed. And in such places, that's not going to happen online, if only 3% of the student body (and 2% of the public) has internet access at home.
-Isaac
Good for them! (Score:3)
My highschool paper had the good fortune to be headed up by an advisor who also was a professional journalist, so whenever the question of "prior review" came up, he told administration where they could stick it. Not many school papers have the benefit of an advisor who realizes that his students have first amendment rights, though - in fact, right after I graduated, he went on sabbatical and was replaced by a nice, compliant, tenured teacher who knew which side her bread was buttered on - she practically fell over herself agreeing that of course the principal should be able to read the paper before it came out, just to make sure there wasn't anything "inappropriate" in there...
I'd love to see the schools try to force removal of an online "underground" paper - the ACLU would be all over it in a second.
Not just at MSNBC (Score:1)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A
Re:School and webpages (Score:1)
Re:Great... for priviledged teens. (Score:2)
I fully support this end-run around PR-obsessed and/or corrupt school administrators, but let's not forget that online papers will reach only a limited audience, except in the most affluent of schools. Which is a shame, really, since such schools aren't usually where investigative journalism is most necessary.
On the other hand, keep in mind that computer prices are lower these days than they were in the past. Although a lot of the really cheap PC and free PC companies went belly up, it's still pretty easy to find PCs for $1000 or less. Used PCs will cost even less and free web pages through Geocities, Xoom, and the like are easy to come by. There are also "free" Internet Service Providers like Netzero and Juno.
So while poorer schools will always lag behind more affluent ones, things are getting better for them in terms of Internet access.
Re:Here we go again. (Score:5)
Humans are violent creatures. Anyone who doubts that can leave now and get a job in a burger joint (if you're lucky). What makes us "civilized" is the ability to redirect our violent tendencies into actions and channels that use up the energy without actually having to physically harm anyone. You start plugging these outlets up one by one, and you are going to increase the chance that someone flips out and resorts to a gun -- you sure as hell are not going to stop it.
We've gone back to holding our under 18's responsible for their actions (more and more trials as adults, etc.), but we've forgotten to give back their priviledges. Would this be an issue if an employee at a business had a personal/non-profit website? Would we even bother to argue this point? Not a chance. This violates the First Amendment is so many ways it's scary that it gets any consideration at all; yet here we are, having to speak up just to defend a right that is so innate in this country.
Sadly, this entire issue boils down to a familiar theme, and it has nothing to do with the First Amendment: it's discrimination. We're questioning the RIGHT of this group to be defended by our Constitution. We're uncertain as to whether or not they QUALIFY as people. No wonder so many children are growing up fucked; try treating them like a HUMAN BEING. You might be surprised.
Re:Everyone's on the web now (Score:2)
Re:Shame on you. (Score:2)
Please don't make it them and us (Score:4)
The problem isn't "those darn kids" v's "Grown-ups", the problem is with people in a position of power making up arbitrary rules simply to advantage them or disadvantage those below. Arbitrary rules are usually poorly defined and easy to work around. Enforcing them becomes a game of whack-the-mole. The problem comes when those in power at a place with a high percentage of unexperienced people go off on a power trip, or overreact to a natural or predictable decision.
- Students: We want to say this
- Teachers: We will stop you
- S: We will say it somewhere else
- T: We will have you arrested and your stuff confiscated
Woah, hold on there. Who's displaying their ignorance now? Children are just proto-adults -- treat them as equals on each issue until they prove themselves to be something else.I've been a victim (Score:2)
After the colombine incident I wrote an article about video game violence (among other topic), but the pricipal nixed it because it was "questionable". I took it in stride because I knew it was. Then I wrote about prayer at football games, another about my views on high school sponsored sports. Both were not allowed to be printed because the maligned the school (in which I didn't choose one school, but schools in general). I then distributed both editorials and another about censorship to every student, but was given 2 days of ISSC for "distributing harmful information". Then when the next edition of the paper came out, instead of my column there was an apology from the principal. Enraged by that I posted all the editorials to a Geocities page (now gone), and had the principal announce it over the PA. I then got two more days for "circumventing the schools decency code".
Sure, I was beat down, and have a few black marks on my school record, but I stuck to my principals. As long as the students keep doing that, there is no way to stop us (short of removing out fingers so we cannot type).
A contrast with my school newspaper... (Score:1)
I graduated high school last year, and spent the last few years involved with our publication. The school's in Iowa, one of the few states where student's right to free speech is protected on-campus. (For the full explanation, go to the National Scholastic Press Association [studentpress.org] or the Student Press Law Center [splc.org].)
Our journalism teacher is technically the advisor to our publication. He advises us what we legally can and can't do. He shows us where our reporting could be improved, where our writing could be improved, what other angles might catch our readers' interest, make them think, etc. But he doens't have the final say. We can take his advice or ignore it. He treats us more as adults than any other class I've ever taken. And for the most part, we respect his advice...he was a professional reporter for 12 years (and a good one at that), so he knows what he's doing. (When we don't take his advice, we usually regret it. We may be legally protected, but we have readers and they get angry at times...)
This is a much better situation than the states in which students don't have freedom of speech. Those states haven't managed to stamp out student speech, as this article shows, but they have managed to alienate the students from the formal class system and taken away almost any chance of adults reviewing the paper and giving it advice, etc. These websites will very rarely be of the same quality as the paper we produced under our system. We have the freedom of speech and we use it. Our principal definitely respects the paper. She's learned it's better to give us the information we want than leaving us to find it on our own, probably presenting it in a way much less favorable to her. Generally, we work with her to find something agreeable to both students and faculty.
These Blake and Yorktown schools have the right idea, even if their state legislatures do not...you can't really stop the students from posting their opinions, but you can advise them. Believe it or not, students as a whole are pretty reasonable people...if you give them good advice, they'll listen.
Re:It's a start.... (Score:1)
Great editing eh?
What can schools do in response? (Score:1)
If I were to do so, and the school found its content objectionable, what could they do? I'd assume that, provided that no school resources were used to host it, they couldn't actually remove the site. However, could they take action against the students responsible for it? My first thought would be that they, being a private organization, could essentially do whatever they want, though it'd probably look bad for them if they were to retaliate. (would this be different if it were a public school? I'd think it might, but I'm really just guessing there.) Would the situation be different than if I were to print up such a newspaper on paper and hand out copies?
Though I'd prefer to avoid it if possible, I suppose that doing this anonymously might well be the best thing to do. I imagine that a free web hosting account would work for this, but the thought of all the ads that would impose makes me shudder. Are there any better options for something of the sort?
Re:What can schools do in response? (Score:3)
Discuss it with your parents, let them know what you're doing and the reasons you feel it should be done. Make them understand so they will be able to back you if and when it all hits the fan. If they are the kind of parents that would be completely against this and you feel it still needs to be done then go right ahead and do it anyway. But be sure you feel strongly enough to go it all by your lonesome.
Keep backups of all your data in a safe place so that if the site gets taken down for whatever reason you can start anew somewhere else. If you want to go the route of printed material then do so. I suggest you find a way to distribute where you aren't on school grounds when you're handing it out just to avoid a confrontation on that issue. And just because they're a private organization doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. Chances are if they have any kind of a decent reputation then they have a accreditation. Find out who it's with and make complaints (and get others to do so also) if they pull the jack booted thug routine. Have the number for the ACLU on speed dial. Find out how to contact the local newspaper so that you can get a story of it out if you get slapped around (figuratively).
And above all, without question or exception don't do it anonymously! If you feel strongly enough about it to publish then you should be willing to put your name on the material.
Remember that if you believe in what you're and you believe that it's right then don't back down. Good luck.
Re:Ah, high school. (Score:1)
Re:Shame on you. (Score:1)
Re:I've been a victim (Score:1)
Good call! follow them around, stick to them, and eventually they'll give in...
Seriously though, prayer at school sports has never quite made sense to me - in the U.S., where there is constitutionally guranteed separation of church and state (I'm right there, aren't I?). Compared to Canada, where there is no such guarantee in the constitution, but there would be no question of prayer at a public event like that being in good taste. Ah well.
Interesting stuff. Makes me wonder whatever happened to our school newspaper - it vanished about halfway through my grade ten year. Of course, the people writing for it seldom had much intelligent to say, much less anything worth censoring...
I had to deal with this kind of thing (Score:2)
After that, I skipped my senior year, got my GED, and now have a great job at a California startup [wego.com]. Now I just shake my head sadly as I hear about each "new study" or whatever.
Re:yawn (Score:1)
According to a lawery I talked to on this (Score:3)
In high school I was an editor (Layout, not grammer, nor reporter). I went to a seminar on the law and school newspaper (accually I wanted a different one, but that one was cancled so I took what I could) According to him, a private school can censor their school sponsered newspaper. A public school cannot, and this lawyer would love to take your case if you go to a public school and the school or principal trys to censor you or your paper in any way. (There are probably limits, but they would be language not content).
Remember americans take the first ammendment more seriously then any other. This works to your advantage, typically you will win any case before you enter a court room. School lawyers know this and will typically settle. The school however is hoping you don't make a legal stink about it, but you should. Most school newspapers are members of a journlism convention (I forget the name) who would love to put you in contact with the right people to help.
Underground Newspapers (Score:1)
When I was in High School, we started an underground newspaper because the local school paper would not allow comics, poetry or stories/articles if you did not work for the paper (or had a friend that did) or if was the slightest bit "risky". Talk about censorship...geesh. And yes, just like every other case, we were threatened with expulsion unless we stopped distribution of our paper.
I'm glad to see students are utilizing their new medium (and with a much bigger audience!)
Don, co-founder of The Daily Llama and Under The Asphalt.
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Re: (Score:2)
that's what my school is doing....sorta (Score:1)
Re:I've been a victim (Score:1)
Caution ... This is a rant:
No. The Constitution guarantees the right to freedom of religion. It makes no such guarantees that the church will be seperate from the state, only that the state cannot pick and choose what religions it will allow. The way I see it is this: It is illegal for the city of Lewisville to order my church to not hold services just because we spell church with a lowercase 'c.' However, its not illegal, and is in fact expressly allowed, for my minister to run for (and possibly be elected to) a city council position.
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Re:According to a lawery I talked to on this (Score:1)
Gee, and all this time I thought most Americans took the 2nd Amendment more seriously.
As far as I've ever seen, high-schools are the most fascistic (sp?) places I've ever been. The idea is to subjugate weak young minds into obedient servants who trust both government & business. Somehow they get the idea that squashing dissention is the best way to keep people in line.
Keep it up, high schools of America. More Columbines will pop up all over the place and will just as easily be forgotten after 15 minutes.
Re:I've been a victim (Score:2)
That's not what 'separation of church and state' means. It doesn't mean that people who go to, work at or lead a church can't run for office, or be a part of the government - it means that the government can't endorse or discourage any church as the state religion. In other words (and better than mine), 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...'
So your minister could run for office, but he/she couldn't use that office to make everyone in Lewisville go to your church, or any church.
Re:civil liberties (Score:1)
The controlling cases here are Hazelwood School Dist. v. Kuhlmeier [findlaw.com]484 U.S. 260 (1988). and Tinker vs Des Moines School Dist.393 U.S. 503 [slashdot.org] (1969)
Public Schools may censor the official school paper for content, but not Student initiated publications. They may limit distribution of unofficial publications on school grounds, but only with a showing that they are materiallly disruptive of normal class activities.
Re:Shame on you. (Score:1)
Re:Please don't make it them and us (Score:2)
Re:According to a lawery I talked to on this (Score:1)
Did it really take a whole 15 minutes?
Re:It's a start.... (Score:2)
California, and I believe a few other states have overturned this ruling and passed a law giving the 1st Amendment back to the students.
Big Schools can give you cover. (Score:1)
Also, there is nothing quite as satisfying as walking into the copy room, pretending to be running something off for a teacher, making 1000 copies of a sheet, and walking out with 'seditious content' that they effectively produced for you.
Oh, and it helps when your parents are both 'in system', the principal was undergrad with your father, and you're on all the academic squads. I suppose that gives you immunity as well.
Re:According to a lawery I talked to on this (Score:2)
and no, no lawyer would love to take your case unless he had lived his life in a sheltered suburban utopia before his years at Harvard Law, and had just got out.
College newspapers get more freedom, at least in past decisions, under the observation that free expression and though is essential to higher education. Additionally, it's been made mostly clear that high schools do not have control over student publications that are not funded by school money or other resources, i.e. underground or independent student publications. Such is the presumed case with these web sites.
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Shortchanging the web? (Score:2)
There's a big difference between being able to put up a webpage which some students might see sometime and being able to publish something in a paper distributed in school.
How so? In fact, high school students today are beginning to outpace college students in their embracement of the Internet.
Think of it this way. You're a modern high school student. I don't care if you're a geek or a trendie. You're given a choice between: the four-page school paper that your boring teachers tell you to read, or the colorful web page that has all the stories they don't want you to read.
It doesn't take long, assuming quite reasonably that the web site is always in the same location, for students to know where to look to find the bits that wouldn't get put in the boring school paper (which is always plastered with articles saying how cool the bastard principal is).
In my high school, a story on teen pregnancy was kept out of the school paper. I went to a private school, which made things worse. Well, it didn't take more than a few dollars worth of nickels to have the objectionable story typed up and copied (luckily this was a small school). I dare say more people had held copies of that story in their hands than the corresponding issue of the school paper. And the fact that it hadn't been put in the school paper for unclear reasons made all the more reason for people to read it.
Plus I've seen plenty of students get "in trouble" at school for things done entirely on their own time.
Yes, well... as with geeks and computer companies, if no one bothers to legally challenge the abuses made against high school students, they are what the abusers want them to be. The whole idle victimization cry is getting a bit stale in both realms. If you assume something is legal (or illegal) simply because a high school principal says it is, then you deserve to live in a place like China. Shi* or get off the pot.
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Re:Solution and question (Score:2)
Probably the same thing as what's called simply "ISS" in the school I work at. Couldn't guess at what the C is for, but our ISS stands for In-School Suspension.
The way it works here is this: You arrive at school, and go to the ISS room. You stay in this room until the end of school, 6.5 hours later. Your classwork is delivered to you, and you are expected to complete it. Your lunch is delivered to you. You're only allowed to leave to use the bathroom (or, obviously, for a medical emergency), in which case you are accompanied by a faculty member.
Basically, it's a way of changing suspension from "Hey, cool, I get to sleep in and watch TV" into something that you really, really don't want.
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Re:A contrast with my school newspaper... (Score:1)
Once again, Iowa strikes. Even though I graduated back in '93, it was the same situation for me on my High School newspaper. Our 'advisor' was just that. He would look at the articles and tell us what he thought of them. If they were controversial, he would say so but it was up to us weither to print it or not. Sometimes we said "No, it's not going to be worth the hassle" and other times we went ahead and printed it. There were plenty of times when the Faculty were angry with us, some of the students would be, and more than a few threats of suspension but there wasn't much they could do. We did learn, however, that if you are going to stick to your guns, make sure you are right. One fact outta place... Libel and Freedom of Press are two totally different things.
Along the same lines : If you are caught smoking in the parking lot, you were smoking on campus. But if in the middle of the day you were in the parking lot, you were given detention for being off campus. *scratches head and tries to figure that one out*
Re:It's a start.... (Score:1)
Look at it this way... If Katie Graham doesn't want something published in The Washington Post [washingtonpost.com] it doesn't see the light of day No 1st amendment argument, it just doesn't get printed. The students in question should start their own paper. If the administration then stops distribution of that paper then they have a legitimate 1st amendment bitch
You entirely missed the point. (Score:1)
Oh, and it helps when your parents are both 'in system', the principal was undergrad with your father, and you're on all the academic squads. I suppose that gives you immunity as well.
Do you sleep with your head packed in ice? Thats just as corrupt as the all-american jock who gets to coast through it because he can throw a ball.
Re:Great... for priviledged teens. (Score:1)
Of course it _is_. However, there are certainly plenty of restrictions that make Education evil. Monotony is one, and sameness is the other. I'm tired of having no voice in my damn school. You know, up until the end of last year, I had no idea we even had a student council, let alone all the meetings leave somewhat to be desired: the outcome maybe?
I'm not on the student council, and I have no clue what they've been discussing or what they've even accomplished. How shall I find out? And when I do find out, what should I do with the info? Hmm...sounds like a real good place for that ``investigative journalism'' as you so cool it; oh, wait, I forgot: it's not necessary, so I thin k I'll just fuck it.
Re:It's a start.... (Score:1)
Re:Here we go again. (Score:2)
Thanks you for getting it. I've been telling people this for years. Everything about us indicates that a part of what we're here for is to inflict and sustain damage from violent acts. Agression is a part of what we are. Many of us work out that agression in positive ways such as going running or getting a good work out others get that release through creative expression, like you pointed out, and those who can't find a positive way to get rid of that agression and anger do it through violence.
Sadly, this entire issue boils down to a familiar theme, and it has nothing to do with the First Amendment: it's discrimination.
Reminds me of a scolding that I got from my asshole step father when I was a kid. He said "You think that 'freedom of speech' means that you get to say whatever you want, whenever you want to." as if that were NOT the correct interpretation of the concept.
The educational system in this country isn't just in place to educate children, it's to indoctrinate them. It's to get them used to the idea that arbitrary authority is always right, and even if the rules don't make sense, they're still the rules. Here in Pittsburgh for example, a school district got a new Principal and an existing rule was re-interpretted and forbade the wearing of white tee shirts. Somewhere near 50 kids were suspended for wearing such shirts. Some dimwits around here were calling local talk shows complaining about how kids have no respect for authority anymore. Stupid rules shouldn't be there, and people who are unable to think for themselves are at the mercy of those whom they allow to think for them.
LK
Re:You entirely missed the point. (Score:1)