DeCSS Down Under 21
Salon is running a story today about how 2600 Australia plans to deal with DeCSS. Australia has a law closely similar to the DMCA in the works; it's already most of the way through the legislative process. 2600 Australia is trying to avoid being a test case.
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:1)
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:1)
Its still polite to link to a page on another server to allow the other person some control.
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:1)
iinet is also very prominant in Western Australia's internet community. Given these two things, I'd say they are as a company idealy situated to make a stand. That they're not, is quite disappointing. I'm not sure that any other internet organisation here in WA can match their resources, and if they aren't prepared to go into bat for us, or at least even pretend to make a stand, then us West Australian users are pretty much fresh outta luck.
And now they're saying that linking is almost illegal! Where the hell did this come from??
I don't mind losing, but I do object to not being allowed to play.
Re:I used to host DeCSS on an Oz server... (Score:1)
I have a standalone (i.e. not a DVD ROM drive) player which has played every R0, R1, R2 and R4 disk I have tried. Yes it's badged as a R4, but it plays any region.
Re:Yawn. (Score:1)
The did succeed. The result of this is that DVD players can not be included in Linix distros. DeCSS can't be used as the basis for alternative DVD players. (And you can get aroung the GPL by writing a specification from it and clean room rewriting it)
Re:Yawn. (Score:1)
Because Linux isn't Windows. A lot of people get most of what they need from the distributions. Buying a CD is a lot easier than downloading everything I need. Especially since I don't need to know whether something exists to find it. Some people would probably still be surprised to find that it is possible to play DVD's under Linux (Although the MPAA's free publicity makes this unlikely)
May make things difficult in the US, but the DMCA isn't law in Europe.
Don't be so sure. The UK's copyright act has certain laws to prevent people from making devices for copying, which could be stretched to cover DeCSS. The law is very similar throughout Europe.
But if someone starts selling an unlicenced DVD player, that can only be used to watch DVDs, this may be a tougher case to win. Copyright law was never intended to award content manufacturers a monopoly over building the devices used to playback the material they generate.
This is kind of what I was getting at with my comment "And you can get aroung the GPL by writing a specification from it and clean room rewriting it". If DeCSS is legal, then making a DVD player based on it is also legal. If the source code is illegal, it probably makes construction of a DVD player where they are obliged to give away the code illegal. If the actual unauthorised decryption is legal, then this is a grey area. If reverse engineering is illegal then making an unauthorised DVD player is illegal. since it is based on information derived from doing something illegal.
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:1)
Anyone know how to arrange a public backlash against copyright, considering that the worlds most powerful media cartels have a capability to control public opinion, have a lot of money and are strongly in favour of strong copyright?
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:1)
I know what will happen... (Score:1)
This will probably go into the same bucket as the "internet censorship" bill that went into action earlier this year. I've heard only a couple of cases of it actually being enforced but nothing that was verified. So much for all the screams of using proxies to bypass the censorship.
Its just not needed, i doubt anyone remembers the law even exists.
Most stuff like this in australia goes away after a while, hopefully this law will too
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:2)
Carrier and ISP liability
...
The Bill seeks to clarify the circumstances in which carriers and ISPs will be held liable: they will not be liable for infringements by their customers simply because the infringements occurred using their facilities.
</IANAL>
Re:I used to host DeCSS on an Oz server... (Score:2)
Sure DVDs suck. 99% of movies suck, anyway.
But that's hardly the point, is it? The point is that a successful suppression of DeCSS by the MPAA sets a couple of very nasty precedents. It is a duty we all owe to the internet to fight the MPAA on this.
I've got no DVD player. I don't want one. I don't want to use DeCSS. But I need to have the right to use it. That's why I mirror DeCSS.
Re:I used to host DeCSS on an Oz server... (Score:2)
Or to find out that there's a limit to the number of times I can change the region after I've bought DVDs locally and from the US and Japan.
It doesn't look too bad so far (Score:2)
Given how bloody awful this law could be, it's not looking all that bad so far. In particular, I believe that, should the changes recommended by the reviewing committee be accepted, it should be perfectly legal to distribute open source DVD playing software. Consider the following extract from the report (paragraph 4.25).
Although an open source DVD playing program could conceptually be used to circumvent the "technological prevention measures" (because the code for decrypting the image data must exist in the program somewhere), but so long as the primary purpose of the program as written is to facilitate the viewing of a DVD (ie, it's a DVD player, and that's all), then the program should be allowed under the proposed law.
On the whole, the most interesting part of the report is the chapter from which I have quoted (chapter 4). It is available in PDF [aph.gov.au].
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:2)
Oh.. the olympics are doing a decent job at that. And it's high-profile enough for a lot of people to take notice.
//rdj
Re:Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:2)
//rdj
Re:Yawn. (Score:2)
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The did succeed. The result of this is that DVD players can not be included in Linix distros.
So? Windows doesn't come with a DVD player, why should Linux? The point is, we can still get it, just as easily. They can fuck around with US sites who host it, and US sites who link to it. Google still works fine for me.-
DeCSS can't be used as the basis for alternative DVD players.
May make things difficult in the US, but the DMCA isn't law in Europe. And we have a different electronics market over here anyway. As for the US, it is easy for the MPAA to attack 2600, and call them a bunch of pirates. But if someone starts selling an unlicenced DVD player, that can only be used to watch DVDs, this may be a tougher case to win. Copyright law was never intended to award content manufacturers a monopoly over building the devices used to playback the material they generate.-
(And you can get aroung the GPL.....
Lost me. Why do you want to get around the GPL? (or rather, yes, clean room from the specs and you can write your own proprietry piece of code, for all the good this would do you, but so what? What relevance does that have to the DeCSS case? You could do a clean room closed source emacs clone if you so wished!) .....by writing a specification from it and clean room rewriting it)
I don't think that clean-rooming makes much difference in this case. As I understand it, in the California case, the 72 defendants are not all linking to the same piece of code, and MPAA are attacking all code that cracks CSS.New Australian law (Score:3)
<b>Carrier and ISP liability</b>
...
The Bill seeks to clarify the circumstances in which carriers and ISPs will be held liable: they will not be liable for infringements by their customers simply because the infringements occurred using their facilities.
<b>Temporary Reproductions</b>
ISPs have also been concerned about infringement because of the temporary copies that are made in the course of technical processes of transmission and browsing on the Internet. The Bill provides an exception from copyright infringement where temporary reproductions are made in the course of the technical process of electronic transmissions. Incidental copies made in the course of browsing on the Internet will not be a breach of copyright.
I used to host DeCSS on an Oz server... (Score:3)
I have a VHS deck. I have cable. I only have a 68cm TV. I don't need DVD. And have you heard about the problems with DVD rentals? It's like it was rigged -- VHS tapes are robust compared to a DVD disc. One scratch and a disc is useless, and it takes only a couple of rentals before a disc is scratched to hell.
So, lets recap; Unecessary resolution, no rentals, can't order from overseas, most of the stuff I want not available. There's no point to DVDs, so there's even less point to DeCSS.
Next!
Re:Yawn. (Score:3)
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Bolted, horse, gate, closing.
Does seem to be the case, doesn't it?The MPAA case would ostensibly seem to be about preventing people from getting a copy of DeCSS, but surely they can't be stupid enough to think they can actually succeed?
Here is something a lot of suits seem to have difficulty grasping: the Internet is more powerful than even the US government. Why did the US government loosen controls on strong-crypto exports? Because it realized that it was playing King Knut against the tide of opensource, and its feet were getting wet.
So if we assume that the MPAA aren't trying to prevent people from getting DeCSS, then what are they trying to do? All the court documents seem devoted to casting the OSS movement in a bad light, but I presume the case is about more than that.
And what do we gain by fighting these cases? When we fight, we are made to look bad. We stand up for ourselves, and people fling mud at us. And the mud sticks - the public are being told by respectable men in suits that we are a bunch of hippy anarchists with no respect at all for copyright laws (hint to lawyers: Stallman, Torsvalds, et. al. wrote their own OS, they didn't just start pirating Windows).
Why fight? We win even if we don't.
BTW, for more CSS/DVD info check out:
www.cssfaq.org [cssfaq.org]
www.opendvd.org [opendvd.org]
G
Australian ISPs take on DeCSS (Score:4)
>
> I intend to post a copy of DeCSS, and link to copies at other locations,
> under my homepage hierachy http://members.iinet.net.au/~locust/.
>
> My understanding is that DeCSS is completely legal in Australia (as we
> lack an equivalent to the US' Digital Millenium Copyright Act), and I was
> wondering whether iiNet knows any differently, or whether they would have
> any objections to my making DeCSS available through webspace that they
> supply.
Hi Andrew, thanks for your message.
There is divided legal opinion as to whether the DeCSS code is
illegal in Australia, though the adverse findings in other countries
aren't helpful for the proposition that it is "fair use". So far, it's
a moot point and I guess it's up to you whether you want to be a test
case.
If you host it on your website and someone
going to ask you to take it off as required under our AUP. While I have
a lot of sympathy for your point of view, I can't allow iiNet to be
caught in the crossfire.
As far as hyperlinks are concerned, always link to the page, not the
file. Linking to the file is called "deep linking", and is a borderline
copyright violation.
Hope this helps - if you run into trouble see www.efa.org.au.
Regards,
What's next? DeCSS in Acapulco? (Score:4)
Asked about the relationship between a DVD-decrypting program, and the traditional mexican music, they responded: "Well, there ees notheeng in common, but we decided to support our hacker amigos in their fight against the eevil gringo corporations".
Now, can we move on to some _real_ news?