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Music Media Your Rights Online

Trade An MP3, Lose Your Job 35

woggo writes "I just noticed in Infoworld that certain companies are firing their employees for using MP3s on office computers. That's right, firing, without notice or prior warning. 'Acceptable use,' indeed." What's the policy at your company?
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Trade An MP3, Lose Your Job

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  • Dude, that's three YRO posts today. I've had enough of YRO.

    Why the are people stuck on 'MP3'? Would I not get fired if it was an illegal Ogg Vorbis file? Would I get fired if it was a legal MP3 file? Illegal Music is the way to say it, not MP3. MP3 is just a file format.

    </rant>

  • "One Heller worker and five CSC workers were fired for "inappropriate use of e-mail": sending MP3s through the company e-mail system. These firings came abruptly, without warning or previous reprimands."

    At roughly 5mb per standard song length (~3 minutes) I'm not suprised they were ask to clear their desks out. At a small company having a number of people sending music files out to a list of friends could cause a bit of a jam.

    As for without warning.... I don't know about anyone else, but I remember reading the stack of papers I was asked to sign when I got my present job. Most of them were just that "warnings".

    But as with many stories all we have are 2 sentences to form an opinion on what happened... not much to go on.

    Malk-a-mite
    ============
    I guess standard rules apply,
    Wear a helmet and cover your @$$
    =============

  • by bluGill ( 862 ) on Monday July 24, 2000 @10:35AM (#909290)

    Many people I work with bring either personal CDs, or a radio. So long as they listen with headphones, we can contact them when we need to, and they get the work done the company doesn't care.

    Now if there were illegal (I didn't read the artical) or tieing up bandwidth they have grounds. However if they have a under utilized machine on their desktop what does the company care if they use it for music?

  • Is your point 5mb of disk usage or bandwidth? Even on an older PC with a 5 or 10 gig hard drive, 5 meg is nothing. The MS Word .exe is 8.5 meg and that doesn't include all of the .dll files. Visual studio was something over 38 meg last time I installed it. And as for bandwidth, at 5mb, 5 users trading say 12 files/day with a 1mb network (anyone still using 1mb networks?) will "use" 40 minutes; with a 10mb network, 4 minutes; and (obviously) with a 100mb network, only 24 seconds.

    Mis-use of company resources has always been nothing more than an easy way to fire someone. If the companies were to say it was because employees were trading "illegal" mp3s, they would be open to having to prove in court the illegality of the MP3s.

    But as you said, we are reaching conclusions based on 2 sentences from (of all people) whoever is using the Robert X Cringely alias this week.

  • by Wakko Warner ( 324 ) on Monday July 24, 2000 @12:49PM (#909292) Homepage Journal
    If you get fired for having a few MP3 files, chances are that company isn't the kind of fascist regime you'd want to work for anyway. You should thank them. Right before turning them in to the SPA for all the pirated software they probably have on their network. (40% of all companies do!)

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

  • by AndrewD ( 202050 ) on Monday July 24, 2000 @01:18PM (#909293) Homepage

    The "article" is one piece in a rumour column. It starts with the proposition that one firm has implemented a change to its acceptable use policy regarding MP3s. Fair enough - bandwidth costs money, and a certain amount can slip through in the margin a business needs over and above normal usage. 5mb chunks going out tends to cause the lights to dim (as does a lawyer stomping down there and ranting at the IT manager for wasting everyone's time with the effing GoodTimes or Wobbler or whatever it's called now virus hoax, but that's another story).

    It then goes on to say that five employees got sacked without warning or reprimand or like that there.

    That, frankly, I don't believe. Try that in the UK and you'd be paying four or five figure damages within a few months. Even in the US, firmly under the heel of capital, I misdoubt workers have that little right to a fair hearing.

    That said, I work in a firm with the email kit set up so everyone can read everyone else's. Convenient if you need to know what client said what when to who when one of the whos is out at court, but a royal pain when you're after trading filthy limericks with said client.

  • Our policy (tech support call centre, >100 techs) is that MP3s will get you a formal warning, because they're already being a major bandwidth problem. We have a 4Mb link into the office, and it's already thrashed with MP3s and cubemailed MPEGs (usually the latest from Stile Project).

    I really don't find this unreasonable.

  • Apparently Micro$oft will fire on the spot any employee caught trading MP3's, period. No buts. (from Micoshaft employee)
  • Actually in the US, several states are employement "at will" which means that the employer can fire you for anything and not be sued. Of course, the employee doesn't have to give the customary 2 weeks notice either.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • At my last job, I discovered that the mail system, which was hideously slow, was constantly being bogged down by jokes, songs, etc. being sent through e-mail.

    When I brought this to the attention of the powers-that-be, I was told "if they have nothing better to do, send them to us". When I further told them that other, more important e-mails were being held up as a result of this, the president of the company sent out a note basically saying "don't, or suffer the consequences".

    If these are smaller companies, this seems like a very fair thing to me. It's pure hell as a network administrator to be asked "Why is my e-mail so slow", and eventually have the complaints filter up and cost time and effort where none is needed.

    A lot of people fail to realize that PCs at work don't belong to them in most cases; they belong to their place of employment. They have an acceptable use policy more often than not. IMHO... they need to act accordingly and fetch their MP3s at home.

    meisenst
  • by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Monday July 24, 2000 @05:29PM (#909299) Homepage
    In most of the USA, employment is "at will", meaning you can be fired for any or no reason. The exceptions are reasons that are against public policy, such as age/gender/racial discrimination. There is no right to due process.

    I've heard of people getting fired for pr0n, games, and sex in the office, but that is the first I've heard of people getting fired for MP3s.

  • Any smart company will not pay for soundcards when computers are ordered. I don't have a soundcard on this computer now, and I haven't had one in my last three jobs either. If you think about it, there really isn't a need for a soundcard in most office jobs.

    Or at least, a need for a soundcard in every computer.

  • My office computer seems to have a soundcard on the mainboard. They could probably go for a different model, but I get the feeling that this would make not having a soundcard more expensive.
  • As has been mentioned above, "misuse of company resources" is an easy thing to fire people on, because everyone does it in some way or another.

    So, this leaves other general misdeeds/corporate political maneuverings to shoulder the blame.

    Quite truthfully, such a place is somewhere I'd rather not work in.

    --Perianwyr Stormcrow
  • by technos ( 73414 ) on Tuesday July 25, 2000 @04:37AM (#909303) Homepage Journal
    I thought about this a few months back when I needed to replace the 50 disc changer I had at work; Most of my CD's were already sampled to MP3, so just snagging the lot of them off my home PC would have been easy. But one of our TS drones had been fired for excessive bandwidth abuse and subsequent copyright infringement. (He was downloading 'Warez' from work)

    First, I'd have had to install a sound device, then I'd eat most of the 10G hard disc with MP3's.
    Not to mention circumventing the Admin account to install said drivers and a copy of Winamp. Plus the 'You've got six gigs of MP3 files? Are they all legal?' question. While they're all legal, I'd be hard pressed to prove I bought each and every album.

    I said 'screw it, I'll stay away from using ANYTHING company owned;' They don't own it, they can't say a word about it.

    So I grabbed a Micro AT 486 off the scrap heap, added memory and a DX4-120. Bought a pair of used 8.2G 14mm laptop hard drives and a used ISA SoundBlaster. I intentionally left Ethernet connectivity out; If I need to change files, it will be over my personal LAN and a PLIP cable. The box is only capable of playing MP3s. No network drivers, no services, no utilities, no login. (It runs a root shell and a script to choose the playlist, and enters init-6 when the script is terminated.)

    If they have a bitch about it, I can tell them to get stuffed. If they touch it, I have good reason to get them reprimanded and or fired; Corporate policy is pretty strict about employee owned devices, and there is the added complication that they are incapable of even making their way around a shell! Any 'touchy-touchy' would do harm, and they don't like that liability.

  • My company used to do exactly that, and it seemed to cut down on the trading. Unfortunatly, 'upper management' got themselves DVD equipped Dell's six month back, and Compaq stopped shipping the soundcard free entry workstation we standardized on.

    They now disable the device in BIOS, and 'forget' to install drivers for it. It's trivial to activate, but none of the marketdrones seem to have the technical ability to.

    Still, it didn't stop the endless parade of family and freinds fu>oring the connection from mailing into the office; A mail filter noted almost 10G of MPEG and AVI movies in one day, as well as 5 in WAV files.
  • I've worked for them twice, once as a regular employee, and once as a consultant, and never will again.

    They have an office culture that (Here in the UK at least) stifles creativity, they have inflexable rules that seem set arbitarily, and quite frankly all the people I know that are still there are desperate to get out...

    In CSC, if you succeed, CSC succeeds. If you make a mistake, YOU make the mistake.

    I read this article with no surprise whatsoever.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    a wrongful firing suit. Even if there were an acceptable use policy. Even if there were one of those "I Accept" buttons at login.

    Why? To fuck with them. Even if this didn't have a good chance in court, the publicity would be amazing, and other potential employees would certainly get the message that this company is a crappy place to work.

  • The "Don't let the boss find out" clause.

    LK
  • When I arrived at my new job, I was pleasantly surprised to see that all the new systems had winamp installed, and most had napster running. The only rule don't download metallica. It's a dot com company, and clearly a techie's company.
  • OK, let me see if I've got this straight.

    Joe Trader's sitting in his gopher hole, coding away, and gets the latest, reetest, bestest MP3 in the mail from his pal across the hall.

    Joe fires up Napster, or Gnutella, or Scour, or whatever the latest, reetest, bestest flavour-of-the-month sharing package happens to be. Joe downloads a four-meg file. Hell, he's got plenty of bandwidth, so he downloads five or six of them.

    Joe mails these files out. Some to his bud across the hall. Some to his bestest girl, working at the startup down the street. One goes to his mommy.

    Joe has tied up company bandwidth, used e-mail for personal communications, and billed for time when he didn't actually work.

    Where I come from, that's called "termination with cause." Do not pass go. Do not collect unemployment benefits.

    Of course, I'm posting this from work...


    --

  • I used to work for an independent oil and gas company. There was extreme paranoia there about what went in and out on a computer. The new Dell's all came with CD-ROM drives, which they removed. Floppy drive cables were removed, and the floppy disabled in the BIOS, which was password protected. Decent protection against viruses on floppy and illegal software coming in. Easy enough to circumvent, but there would be a trail of evidence. So if you needed something from a floppy or CD or to a floppy, you had to go to the helpdesk and have them load it. What a waste of time.

    Net access from your desktop PC was limited to only those sites which were explicitly allowed (i.e. CNN). Full access to the net was provided on a single PC per floor that was not connected to the rest of the LAN. Even this was filtered in some way, but apparently only by keywords in the URL.

    E-mail was filtered by a lovely product from Norton that held certain attachments until they could be reviewed by a human. Naturally, it stopped EXEs, but they also included most graphics files. Norton would also look inside zip files. Of course, I soon discovered that most "contraband" non-EXE files could be snuck in by simply changing the extension.

    Desktop boxes had sound cards and speakers, so you could hear all the default windows sounds...whee.

    Oh, and when they set up some new high-powered PCs in a common work area, they left the CD-ROMs hooked up, but disabled the devices in WinNT. Minor detail was that they made our accounts local admins, so a few clicks was all it took to be able to listen to CDs...

    In the meantime, the people in IS had full access to anything on the net and e-mail attachments, and were frequently passing around novelty EXEs that could have been hellacious trojans (and they had all kinds of admin access to the whole enterprise).

    Anyway, the futility of this system, and the fact that it greatly interefered with accessing the resources that I needed, was a sore point with me the whole time I was there.
  • I actually am exchanging mp3's with my boss. It's great to work for a company with 50 people and having been there when there were only 15 - that was only a little more than a year ago.

    Reminds me that I need to borrow some DVD's from him soon.. :)

  • Dude, that's three YRO posts today. I've had enough of YRO.

    So ignore them. Even better, go to your user page and disable them alltogether.

    IMHO I think YRO has been a great addition to Slashdot. Maybe it is a little bit grim, dark, paranoid and soapy, but that makes it interesting all the more. Makes me wonder if there are many DS9 fans here hehe.

    While not everything has the same importance and redundancy is unavoidable, YRO does touch some very important issues. They might not matter a lot to you, but the deCSS,MP3,hyperlink,privacy,etc events could have a wide impact on the way we know the Internet - and the marvel of information and communication in general.

    I will only miss YRO when there is no longer a need for it. I hope to see that day - naive eh?

    MP3 is just a file format.

    Napster is just a protocol. deCSS is just a program. A chainsaw is just a tool. Our brains simply can comprehend matters a lot better when the issue is focussed on something we can relate to. And most people can relate to MP3. That's why were stuck on it.

  • Is it just me or does this line: "Even on an older PC with a 5 or 10 gig hard drive..."; make some of you feel really old? Hell, I've got an 'older PC' with no hard drive and another with a 20 meg HD.

    Hurtling towards 30...

  • In a normal non-fascist office employees are generally allowed to hear some low-volume music while working. Some can bring a little radio on their desk. So what's the matter if they listen to some mp3 while working? Maybe this is why here in Italy we're known to be not so great workers :) but it seems to me an acceptable idea. Work should not be a total jail. Of course you can't spend 2 hours listening to music and doing nothing, or dancing instead of working. So it's not the MP3s itself, it should only be a matter of unauthorized bandwidth usage.
  • If the network equipment belongs to the company then TPTB have every right to limit what gets sent through it. Restricting downloading of movies, mp3s, and warez on the limited company bandwidth is not outrageous, especially if it's causing problems in the server room.

    Similarly, if the system you're working on belongs to the company, they would have the right to tell you what you can and cannot put on it. It's their stuff, after all, though it would be a really, really jerkass thing for them to not let you put your own files on it.

    Besides, I doubt the employees being fired simply for trading mp3's. They were probably in line to be terminated (for previous bandwidth abuses or pissing off the boss or whatever) and this provided an adequate excuse to do so.

    --

  • Of course, I'm posting this from work...
    I can just see the HR department making it against company policy to read, post to, or even talk about /. :)

    --
  • ... they have what's called "at will" employment. This happened to me at SBC Communications last year. EVERYONE on my floor had MP3's, but my computer had the misfortune to get scanned, and viola! 4 days before christmas, I'm out of a job. WW is right above when he points out that this only happens at the most fascist companies, but they DO have the best benifits. Standard offer at Bell was 43k for a entry level 1st level mgr with other compensation that brings the value of the package (which I have a copy of, as my wife was made just this offer in the same department) to about 61k for the first year - a package that most other companies (think small to medium) have a hard time matching.

    So, people WANT to work there because the pay is good, the opportunities are excellent, the benifits are beyond par - but the security is draconian, the policies unclear and termination occurs without recourse.

    Go read Dilbert. Scott Adams came up with Dilbert while working at PacBell, which is owned by SBC.
  • You are still using their electrical power. Or do you have a gas run generator standing next to your desk (in which case your co-workers could complain about fumes)?
  • get your boss addicted to them and voila! you now have blackmail in-case he becomes a prick.

    As for the computer department that ratted, what a bunch of hypocritical piss-heads... they're trading mp3's more than the girls in sales/billing. Besides, you cna control your users easily, if you are a sysadmin that has a clue (most don't, in particualr MCSE's :-)

    I also noticed that this was only piss-ant companies... nothing like DELL,ATT,SPRINT,IBM,etc... let the little crap companies abuse their employees, us creative companies will snatch them up happily!
  • This is another reason why you should *carefully* (oh so carefully) read employment agreements before you sign them. If the company says no personal email over the network, it's their network - they can say what they will allow on their property, and what they will do if you ignore that rule. I know an acquaintance who recently stated they'd refuse to work for a company that prohibits ICQ and AIM, not even mentioning personal email. That's that person's choice as to what they feel they need in their workplace, and I wish them well - some people insist on windows in their office.

    *If*:
    a) the company gives you a piece of paper stating "Goofing off during work hours is grounds for termination with cause. Goofing off consists of:
    * excessive (as defined by your supervisor) personal telephone calls
    * personal email
    * ICQ
    * AIM
    Other specific prohibitions that if violated are grounds for termination with cause include:
    * installing software on company-issued software not specfically authorized by the IT department
    * running security software such as SATAN or a portscanner without such action being part of your job definition,
    * bringing personal computer hardware into the office and connecting such to the network without written approval by supervisor
    Etc. etc...."

    b) AND you then sign that piece of paper, tough for you: they told you in writing, you agreed to it, you signed it. You sign the employment contract, you're obliged to the terms of the contract as long as they do not violate the employment laws of your jurisdiction. You install ICQ, they can fire you for it. Some companies make adherence to dress codes as a high requirement, some make timeliness, some require other conditions. I'm not saying it's nice, or fair, or reasonable, but if you want that job, those are part of what you have to do for that job.

    Yes, I've seen all of the above conditions on employment agreements I've been handed - I'm not making them up. My personal response to them is irrelevant. Read contracts before you sign. If you don't know what you're reading, get an expert's advice. If the company protests they won't allow you to consult with a lawyer, ask yourself why.
  • Or my previous company, which had about 10 gigs on a server on the LAN, including plenty of Metallica (the server was in Germeny )...

    Go, dot-coms!!!
  • Listening to MP3 files and sending them via e-mail are 2 different things. When you listen to them, you may be using up some of your harddisk space but essentially you're not really costing your company money.

    As soon as you start distributing them via e-mail however, you are starting to use up valuable bandwidth, delaying more important business related mail and possibly even breaking the law, if you're distributing copyrighted music. (We've seen our e-mail hubs here getting clogged by MP3, MPEG and AVI files which really delayed some important mails by several hours) All that, plus the fact that the network lines usually cost lots of money, gives any company with an 'acceptable use of computer material' policy enough justification to fire you. (At my company you receive a warning first though)

    Greetings

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