Oxford Yanks Student Page Over Spoof DeCSS 222
eval writes "A student at Oxford
had his page pulled
by the computer services group there because he had a
spoof DeCSS
on his page, and linked to
opendvd.org."
Once again, the organizations like the
MPAA
(though Oxford administration did not officially confirm this) get their way simply by sending an official-looking letter. Where are we when universities - the last stronghold of intellectual freedom - excuse their censor-first, ask-questions-later behavior by saying: "We were here to further the aims of the University in Education and Research, not to fight other people's copyright actions"? (more)
The day following the Web page's removal, the school administrator was surprised to learn that the DeCSS his staff yanked had nothing to do with DVDs...
From: Alan Gay <alan@ermine.ox.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: ox.talk
Subject: Re: Deep linking
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:14:54 +0100
Organization: Oxford University, EnglandSo, you are saying that all this fuss is because you wanted to wave a red rag at the bull by *pretending* you were offering decss software. The result of this is that the University has spent, and is still spending, a vast amount of administrative effort and lawyers' fees over something that has nothing to do with it, and is just a game to you.
I'll leave others to discuss the sense of that.
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:1)
If they're alleging that publishing DCSS breaches copyright then it's the first I've heard of it. You mean they're claiming to have written it themselves and therefore to have copyright over it or what?
Reverse engineering does not breach copyright. The provision of tools that could be used to breach copyright (e.g. photocopiers, cd-recorders, pencils and paper) does not breach copyright.
I don't see how they could be argued to have any case at all in a country with conventional copyright laws.
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:1)
If I remember correctly, there is an English court ruling effectively with the same results as the DCMA: If a copyright holder informs an ISP of a copyright violation, the ISP should take appropriate action.
On the subject of "lawyer fees", it would be fun to send a few law-students into a fight over this with the MPAA (or whomever). Costs the MPAA real money, the university has a chance of training the students "for real", with a very, very small chance of losing the case....
Roger.
Re:Look before you pull (Score:1)
kwsNI
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:1)
I really have not much of a clue, but AFAIK, Copyright law is only concerned with direct copying. For instance, if you had lived on the moon for the last 50 years, and came back to earth by absolute co-incidence with an exact replica of 'The Lion King' that you had made yourself and could prove was completely your own work, and contained completely your own ideas with absolutely no influence from Disney's version, then technically you would be ok (although Disney's lawyers would get for for something).
An example this complex is just silly and unimaginable, but in the case of something which is much simpler - the key.. Would it be at all possible to prove that it was completely his own work, since he didn't actually copy it from anywhere, but found it and generated it himself..?
Re:Universities (Score:2)
Oxford University doesn't have all that much money? Come-on. Look at those colleges. My college alone apparently has investments totalling 40 million pounds! When you get your account, you sign an agreement saying that you give the university the right to your data, especially if they're getting sued over it.
I'm at Oxford Uni, and I didn't sign any such thing. All my data produced 'during working hours' is owned by an external funding body that pays for my research.
Incidently my home-page also has a link to OpenDVD.org and the (non-spoof) DeCSS source code, but I guess the Oxford Uni Computing Services haven't found that! They're not particularly switched on I guess.
Bravo!. (Score:1)
Oxford is upset? (Score:1)
Okay, so basically what he's saying is that the student who posted the DeCSS parody should be blamed for the administrative staff not doing their jobs and looking at the site before they pulled it down to actually, *gasp*, see if it was an offending page. I don't see how anyone can have sympathy for them.
Re:This has nothing to do with free speech (Score:1)
Nor is it the job of universities to defend the "pet cause" of some random organisation which isn't even in the same country.
The point here is that Oxford did in effect take sides.
Re:Where are we? Where we always were! (Score:2)
For some perspective, take a look at the American Association of University Professors [aaup.org] report, Developments Relating to Censure by the Association [aaup.org]
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
Why, I'll bet I could handle three of those MPAA pencilnecks at a time. Would make for some mighty fine late-night programmes as well!
Yes, too bad instead of hiring lawyers, they would hire thugs.
-jerdenn
Re:Free Speech at Universities (Score:1)
Hmm, so if some student accuses another student of assault, or rape, or theft, or cheating, the administration should suspend the person accused immediately without bothering to even investigate the matter, see if the complaint makes any sense, or is more than groundless.
If they use the same guidelines, if anyone accused a student of anything serious, the university should suspend the student and bar them from classes first, then bother to check and see if the accusation has any grounds at all. (Then again, perhaps most universities go that way anyway.)
Paul Robinson postmaster@paul.washington.dc.us [mailto]
http://paul.washington.dc.us [washington.dc.us]
Re:This has nothing to do with free speech (Score:1)
The landlord action on an unsubstatiated allegation effectivly means that they will do the bidding of someone who wishes to herass the tennant. Which the law does not view differently from a landlord herassing a tennant for any other reason, which is against the law.
Finally... a story where this is *not* offtopic... (Score:5)
Oh well... here it is.
Add your own, and spread this far and wide:
ftp://ftp.u.washington.edu/public/arobs /css [washington.edu] /smith/dvd [darkthrone.com] n crypt.html [lycos.com] /dvd [kirenet.com] /index.htm [1st.net] .com/wa2/phederalphelony/breakingnews.html [angelfire.com] /dvd.htm [angelfire.com] s _are_scu m-sucking_pigs [...] [crosswinds.net] /CollegePark/3807/2600Tribute.html [geocities.com] /Curb/1232/DeCSS [geocities.com] .com/SiliconValley/Ridge/3727/2600/dvd.htm [geocities.com] ://www.oksanen.net/ville/this_is/under/Finnish/jur isdiction/otherstuff.htm [oksanen.net] /wrobell/css [posexperts.com.pl]
ftp://sun.rl.odessa.ua/pub/decss [odessa.ua]
http://130.111.75.63:142 [130.111.75.63]
http://216.35.100.9/ma/kdawson/deecessess [216.35.100.9]
http://24.114.168.235/public/css.htm [24.114.168.235]
http://24.15.107.67/DeCSS [24.15.107.67]
http://24.6.244.114/DeCSS [24.6.244.114]
http://2600.dk/mirrors/css [2600.dk]
http://334.se2600.org [se2600.org]
http://DVDoutrage.Tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://MSD.dyndns.org [dyndns.org]
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~sd_fort [concordia.ca]
http://amergeisaphreak.netfirms.com [netfirms.com]
http://andrewstern.freeservers.com/decss [freeservers.com]
http://artun.ee/~rommi/css [artun.ee]
http://benyossef.com/freedom [benyossef.com]
http://bigpoppa.adsl.alpha1.net/decss [alpha1.net]
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/clcktwr [yahoo.com]
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/klflatt [yahoo.com]
http://budice.ancients.net/decss [ancients.net]
http://budsmoker.com/sites/decss [budsmoker.com]
http://bur-jud-118-039.rh.uchicago.edu/d vd [uchicago.edu]
http://cant-stop-us-all.freehosting.net [freehosting.net]
http://chaz.fsgs.com/misc/DvD [fsgs.com]
http://chemlab.org/~dvd [chemlab.org]
http://cherryville.org/dvd [cherryville.org]
http://come.to/intelex [come.to]
http://cs.unca.edu/~dillzc/decss [unca.edu]
http://css.choppy.com/data [choppy.com]
http://cssalgorithm.8m.com [8m.com]
http://cybertrippin.net [cybertrippin.net]
http://cymorg.bizland.com/index2.html [bizland.com]
http://dB.org/dvd [db.org]
http://dandruff.cs.unm.edu/~bap/DeCSS [unm.edu]
http://darklord.darkthrone.com/users
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~homeyd/DVD [uoregon.edu]
http://dcwi.com/~wench/decss [dcwi.com]
http://debian.mps.krakow.pl/mirror/css [krakow.pl] http://decss.8m.com [8m.com]
http://decss.cx [decss.cx]
http://decss.cyvoid.net [cyvoid.net]
http://decss.fall0ut.com [fall0ut.com]
http://decss.freeservers.com [freeservers.com]
http://decss.freeshell.org [freeshell.org]
http://decss.fzylogic.net [fzylogic.net]
http://decss.htmlplanet.com [htmlplanet.com]
http://decss.netfirms.com [netfirms.com]
http://decss.z-man.org [z-man.org]
http://decss_files.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://decssmirror.homestead.com [homestead.com]
http://deelbeson.detour.net [detour.net]
http://dephile.hypermart.net [hypermart.net]
http://dephile.hypermart.net/dvdinfo.html [hypermart.net]
http://developer.dnepr.net/dvdcss [dnepr.net]
http://dialug.org/html/decss.html [dialug.org]
http://dirtass.beyatch.net [beyatch.net]
http://dlsf.org [dlsf.org]
http://dogh ousepages.lycos.com/collecting/midnightrider/DVDE
http://donotsueme.freeservers.com [freeservers.com]
http://donotsueme.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://dosdemon.yi.org/decss [yi.org]
http://dsl129.drizzle.com:2001/downloa ds/DVD [drizzle.com]
http://dvd.coolpeople.dhs.org [dhs.org]
http://dvd.k4dwi.net/dvd [k4dwi.net]
http://dvd.loathe.com [loathe.com]
http://dvdcopy.cjb.net [cjb.net]
http://dvdcrack.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://dvdcss.newmail.ru [newmail.ru]
http://earendel.gt.ed.net/dvd [ed.net]
http://ebmedia.net/dvd [ebmedia.net]
http://elknews.netpedia.net/dvd [netpedia.net]
http://fairuse.freeservers.com [freeservers.com]
http://freedecss.50megs.com [50megs.com]
http://freemymind.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://freeshell.org/~simm [freeshell.org]
http://friko6.onet.pl/war/mkochano [friko6.onet.pl]
http://ftp.yodanet.schwaebischhall. de/pub/DeCSS [schwaebischhall.de]
http://ftso.org/decss [ftso.org]
http://geocities.com/donquix0te [geocities.com]
http://geocities.com/dontquit222 [geocities.com]
http://go.to/decss [go.to]
http://go.to/nairos_dvd [go.to]
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~deepbleu [prohosting.com] http://heavymusic.8m.com [8m.com]
http://heky.org/dc [heky.org]
http://home.att.net/ ~phreakonaleash/ccs_mirror--screw_the_feds [att.net]
http://home.clara.net/bangor/DeCSS [clara.net]
http://home.cyberarmy.com/drj/DeCSS [cyberarmy.com]
http://home.cyberarmy.com/enac/dvden crypt.html [cyberarmy.com]
http://home.earthlink.net/~kaos_inc [earthlink.net]
http://home.earthlink.net/~rocketrob [earthlink.net]
http://home.earthlink.net/~snagnbytz [earthlink.net]
http://home.monet.no/~christel/dvd.html [monet.no]
http://home.onestop.net/lakitu/mirror [onestop.net]
http://home.pacbell.net/pfconces [pacbell.net]
http://home.postnet.com/~wsl3/DeCSS [postnet.com]
http://home.primus.com.au/ratzmilk [primus.com.au]
http://home.rmci.net/bert/dvd [rmci.net]
http://home.rmci.net/bert/fuckthelawyers [rmci.net]
http://home.sol.no/~craphead/DVD [home.sol.no]
http://home.worldonline.dk/~loadfree/CSS [worldonline.dk]
http://homepage.dtn.ntl.com/paul.chan [ntl.com]
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~cbunton [ihug.co.nz]
http://imezok.tripod.com/Untitled.txt [tripod.com]
http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/dvd [uwaterloo.ca]
http://inferno.tusculum.edu/~neil/decss [tusculum.edu]
http://internettrash.com/users/linuxdvd [internettrash.com]
http://intfreedom.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://io.spaceports.com/~decss [spaceports.com]
http://isupport2600.8m.com [8m.com]
http://jackvalenti-ismyhoe.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://jadin.virtualave.net [virtualave.net]
http://jump.to/decss [jump.to]
http://jupiter.spaceports.com/~decss [spaceports.com]
http://kb5kjn.karco.org/~alpine/DVD [karco.org]
http://kesagatame.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://kevins.ne.mediaone.net/~kevins/dvd [mediaone.net]
http://killer.radom.net/~shoggoth/dvd.ht ml [radom.net]
http://linux.uci.agh.edu.pl/~outlaw/ decss.html [agh.edu.pl]
http://loogham.2y.net/decss [2y.net]
http://magic.hurrah.com/~fireball/dvd [hurrah.com]
http://mail.sirak.org [sirak.org]
http://matt.frogspace.net/css [frogspace.net]
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/jwhite80 55/DeCSS [aol.com]
http://members.home.net/dgweb [home.net]
http://members.hometown. aol.com/_ht_a/MysticJTY/myhomepage [aol.com]
http://members.theglobe.com/Greed yMan/greedy.html [theglobe.com]
http://members.tripod.co.uk/SneakyBat [tripod.co.uk]
http://members.tripod.com/donotsueme [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/donquix0te [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/ny2600 [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/r-sobin/dvd [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~Denney/DeCSS [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~baloney97/dvd [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~lucvdb/decs s.html [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~sk8or311 [tripod.com]
http://members.xoom.com/CaitSith16/DeC SS.htm [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/LinuxDVD [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/NiKeX [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/amateursoft [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/arjicle [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/chapter3/Mamma No.htm [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/freedvdinfo [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/get_decss [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/iamkeenan/master [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/iox [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/maud123/Home/C SS.htm [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/mogreen/decss [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/nyc2600 [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/phireproof [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/s_o_sam/help.html [xoom.com]
http://members1.chello.nl/~o.seibert/DeC SS [chello.nl]
http://merlinjim.freeservers.com/dvd [freeservers.com]
http://mikedotd.penguinpowered.com/deccs [penguinpowered.com]
http://mikedotd.penguinpowered.com/decss [penguinpowered.com]
http://mikepark.org [mikepark.org]
http://mpaasucks.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://natara.freeservers.com/decss/ decss.html [freeservers.com]
http://ndez.bizland.com/css-auth [bizland.com]
http://neil.gotlinux.org [gotlinux.org]
http://netmanor.iboost.com/zachgoss/s imm.html [iboost.com]
http://nomoredvd.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://ny2600.iwarp.com [iwarp.com]
http://nycsoftware.com/MirrorList.asp [nycsoftware.com]
http://osiris.978.org/~brianr/css [978.org]
http://pages.hotbot.com/arts/weknow [hotbot.com]
http://pages.hotbot.com/edu/silex/mir ror.html [hotbot.com]
http://pcmania.bg/9-99/mortyr/_vti_ cnf/_vti_pvt [pcmania.bg]
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/bojay/sl ashdot [mediaone.net]
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/si mulacrum/decss.htm [mediaone.net]
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/cy berwave/DeCSS.html [mediaone.net]
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/dantepsn [mediaone.net] http://personalweb.smcvt.edu/wtaylo r/decss.html [smcvt.edu]
http://planeta.clix.pt/DJ_AmAzInG/DVD [planeta.clix.pt]
http://primate.net/DVD [primate.net]
http://pyrrhic.8m.com/DeCSS [8m.com]
http://quintessenz.at/q [quintessenz.at]
http://rha.housing.niu.edu/~davebb/css- auth [niu.edu]
http://rlk.ch.utoledo.edu/DVD [utoledo.edu]
http://sadennes.is.dreaming.org/hanadu [dreaming.org] http://saturate.org/decss.asp [saturate.org]
http://saturn.spaceports.com/~brainz/DVD [spaceports.com]
http://screw_MPAA.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://sektor1.dhs.org/decss.html [dhs.org]
http://sites.onlinemac.com/beback [onlinemac.com]
http://sites.uol.com.br/decss [uol.com.br]
http://smokering.org [smokering.org]
http://st-bart.net [st-bart.net]
http://strange.8k.com [8k.com]
http://stunman.iwarp.com [iwarp.com]
http://stuweb.ee.mtu.edu/~krcalh oo/DeCSS/DeCSS.htm [mtu.edu]
http://sweet.as/decss [sweet.as]
http://tatooine.fortunecity.com/moorco ck/337 [fortunecity.com]
http://telnet.stealth.kirenet.com/~star
http://the.wiretapped.net/wt/dvd [wiretapped.net]
http://theannux.homestead.com/decss.html [homestead.com]
http://thesanitarium.n3.net [n3.net]
http://ts1.online.fr/dvd [online.fr]
http://underground.pl/dvd [underground.pl]
http://users.1st.net/roundhere/decss [1st.net]
http://users.1st.net/roundhere/decss
http://users.bigpond.net.au/nf/dvd [bigpond.net.au]
http://users.pandora.be/glenn.plas/dvd [pandora.be] http://vandenborre.org [vandenborre.org]
http://vedaa.tripod.com/decss.html [tripod.com]
http://w1.1634.telia.com/~u163400190 [telia.com]
http://wakeupthe.net/dvd [wakeupthe.net]
http://warpedreality.members.easyspace.c om [easyspace.com]
http://website.lineone.net/~kellypink/D eCSS [lineone.net]
http://werewolf12.cjb.net [cjb.net]
http://wildsurge.a2000.nu/decss [a2000.nu]
http://wiw.org/~drz/css [wiw.org]
http://wusn-members.xoom.com/ambisagrus [xoom.com]
http://www.19f.org/dvd.html [19f.org]
http://www.2600.org.au/dvd.html [2600.org.au]
http://www.UnderTheStairs.com [underthestairs.com]
http://www.adulation.net/css [adulation.net]
http://www.agybby.com/dvd [agybby.com]
http://www.algonet.se/~skeleton/other.ht ml [algonet.se]
http://www.alltel.net/~ledwards/css.htm [alltel.net]
http://www.amerisuk.com/~carbon/css.html [amerisuk.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/biz5/revblack [angelfire.com] http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/drug me [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/acidlocke [angelfire.com] http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop/rawkus [angelfire.com] http://www.angelfire.com/in/sight [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/mb/DVDoutrage [angelfire.com] http://www.angelfire.com/movies/DeCss [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/dvdiss [angelfire.com] http://www.angelfire.com/movies/mpaasucks [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/nh/panzah [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/ny2600 [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/or2/buzzkill [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/pe/sh3/deccs [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/pokemon/decss [angelfire.com] http://www.angelfire.com/punk/DeCSS/DeCSS [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/punk/freedom [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/dblagbro [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/braindamage [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/tx3/winger s/decss.html [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/bigbrother [angelfire.com] http://www.angelfire
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/leggosfun
http://www.angelfire.com/yt/mpaasucks [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/DeCSS [angelfire.com]
http://www.artnotart.com/anne/decss.html [artnotart.com]
http://www.asleep.net/dvd [asleep.net]
http://www.asylum.webprovider.com [webprovider.com]
http://www.auntfloyd.com/DeCSS [auntfloyd.com]
http://www.auracom.com/~rhomac/dvd [auracom.com]
http://www.azillionmonkeys.c om/qed/recess_for_css.html [azillionmonkeys.com]
http://www.best.com/~drumz/decss [best.com]
http://www.bugbbq.org/decss [bugbbq.org]
http://www.capital.net/~mazzic [capital.net]
http://www.charm.net/~dutch [charm.net]
http://www.chello.nl/~f.vanwaveren [chello.nl]
http://www.cognitronics-tech.com [cognitronics-tech.com]
http://www.conspiracynow.com/theories/d ecss [conspiracynow.com]
http://www.constant.demon.co.uk [demon.co.uk]
http://www.copkiller.org [copkiller.org]
http://www.corecomm.net/~davebb/css-auth [corecomm.net]
http://www.corova.com/dvd [corova.com]
http://www.cpinternet.com/~jhanson [cpinternet.com]
http://www.crosswinds.net/oakland/~ahrendt/Lawyer
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dvdcrack [crosswinds.net]
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS [cmu.edu]
http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~feise/DeCSS [tu-berlin.de]
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/dvd.htm [csd.net]
http://www.csl.mtu.edu/~pdl athro/filez/DeCSS/DeCSS.html [mtu.edu]
http://www.ct2600.org/2600-DVD.html [ct2600.org]
http://www.cybertrippin.net [cybertrippin.net]
http://www.cyperspace.org/~multicom [cyperspace.org]
http://www.december.ndo.co.uk [ndo.co.uk]
http://www.deforest.org/CSS [deforest.org]
http://www.deprecated.org [deprecated.org]
http://www.dgw3.com/dvd [dgw3.com]
http://www.discountwebhost.com/decss [discountwebhost.com]
http://www.divisionbyzero.com/decss [divisionbyzero.com]
http://www.dodgenet.com/~nickz/decss [dodgenet.com]
http://www.ductape.net/~alpha/decss [ductape.net]
http://www.duffbrew.com/decss [duffbrew.com]
http://www.execpc.com/~unicorn/dvdmirr or.htm [execpc.com]
http://www.firstlight.net/~clarka/decss [firstlight.net]
http://www.flypop.com [flypop.com]
http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscrap er/coax/1107 [fortunecity.com]
http://www.fortunecit y.com/skyscraper/motorola/1415/decss.htm [fortunecity.com]
http://www.fortunecity.com/vic torian/parkwood/95/DVD [fortunecity.com]
http://www.frankw.net/decss [frankw.net]
http://www.free-dvd.org.lu [free-dvd.org.lu]
http://www.freebox.com/zcedri [freebox.com]
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/mpa aidiot [freeyellow.com]
http://www.fsp.com [fsp.com]
http://www.futureone.com/~damaged [futureone.com]
http://www.geekbits.com/decss [geekbits.com]
http://www.geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Ongakka/rebel. html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline
http://www.geocities.com/Res earchTriangle/Station/2819 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Shapierian [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Silic onValley/Hardware/6188 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconV alley/Modem/4192 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities
http://www.geocities.com/Silic onValley/Software/3971 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Silic onValley/Software/8762 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5258/de css.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhi bit/5771/decss [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/ SunsetStrip/Underground/3587/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Ti mesSquare/Dome/4021/dvd.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/cold_dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/corporatemin dcontrol [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dba3297 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/decss2 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/decss_2000 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/decss_forever [geocities.com] http://www.geocities.com/decss_mirror [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/djph3ad/decss [geocities.com] http://www.geocities.com/donquix0te [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/duck_ohm [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdcracked [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdfightback [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdrevolution [geocities.com] http://www.geocities.com/dvdsuit/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdthings [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/epoxy_css [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/fairusedecss [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/fr33dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/getyourdvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/ghaniali [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/iwantdvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/k4dwi/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/k4wi/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/ma dasian2000/decss_mirror.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/mastaflame [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/meluchwj [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/mydefiance [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/necready433 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/necready433/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/neurosis_dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/opendvdecss [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities. com/siliconvalley/computer/2303/DVD.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/67 52 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/solidex [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/verruktesten [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/warrdragon_2000 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/watice2 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/whackmol [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/xtridzz [geocities.com]
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~awirth1/decss [umbc.edu]
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~castongj [umd.edu]
http://www.hackunlimited.com/dvd [hackunlimited.com]
http://www.hakor.com/DVD [hakor.com]
http://www.hellnet.org.uk/decss.htm [hellnet.org.uk]
http://www.hobbiton.org/~tpm [hobbiton.org]
http://www.hote.qc.ca/dvd [hote.qc.ca]
http://www.hotsoupmedia.com/decss [hotsoupmedia.com]
http://www.idrive.com/decss/web [idrive.com]
http://www.iinet.net.au/~matlhdam/DeCSS [iinet.net.au]
http://www.image.dk/~mbp [image.dk]
http://www.imsoelite.com/dvd [imsoelite.com]
http://www.infa.abo.fi/~raine/pub/ software/DeCSS [infa.abo.fi]
http://www.ironbrick.com/decss [ironbrick.com]
http://www.ismokecrack.com [ismokecrack.com]
http://www.jabberwocky.eyep.net/decss.ht ml [eyep.net]
http://www.k4dwi.net/dvd [k4dwi.net]
http://www.kentroad.demon.co.uk/decss [demon.co.uk]
http://www.kiss.uni-lj.si/~k4ef1890/css [uni-lj.si]
http://www.kki.net.pl/~rsr66/css [kki.net.pl]
http://www.koek.net/dvd [koek.net]
http://www.krackdown.com/decss [krackdown.com]
http://www.lemuria.org/DeCSS [lemuria.org]
http://www.lifesolo.com/bin [lifesolo.com]
http://www.linuxnerd.net/decss [linuxnerd.net]
http://www.linuxstart.com/~kv ance/projects/decss.html [linuxstart.com]
http://www.linuxstart.com/~sys_admin [linuxstart.com]
http://www.lockpicking.nl/decss [lockpicking.nl]
http://www.mafkees.com/dvd [mafkees.com]
http://www.mayday2000.org.uk/decss.htm [mayday2000.org.uk] http://www.members.tripod.com/dkdecss [tripod.com]
http://www.mindspring.com/~coueys [mindspring.com]
http://www.mindspring.com/~stonethrower [mindspring.com]
http://www.multimania.com/sxpert/decss [multimania.com] http://www.mykle.com/DVD [mykle.com]
http://www.myshed.net/dvd [myshed.net]
http://www.nacs.net/~vodak/dvd [nacs.net]
http://www.netby.net/Oest/Hva lfiskegade/jana/css.html [netby.net]
http://www.netspace.net.au/~gromit [netspace.net.au]
http://www.networksplus.net/blogg [networksplus.net]
http://www.neurosis.org/dvd [neurosis.org]
http://www.nsnva.pvt.k12.va.us/~abc [k12.va.us]
http://www.ntsmedia.com/decss [ntsmedia.com]
http://www.nvhs.nl/decss [www.nvhs.nl]
http://www.nwu.edu/people/ldb/decss.html [nwu.edu]
http://www.oblivion.net/~amar/css [oblivion.net]
http
http://www.olen.net/deCSS [olen.net]
http://www.oz.net/~tvaughan [oz.net]
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~jer24 [drexel.edu]
http://www.penismightier.com/weisha upt/dvd.html [penismightier.com]
http://www.pepper-land.net [pepper-land.net]
http://www.philter.com/DVD [philter.com]
http://www.pippy.itgo.com [itgo.com]
http://www.posexperts.com.pl/people
http://www.projectbullshit.com/decss.html [projectbullshit.com]
http://www.projectgamma.com/deccs [projectgamma.com]
http://www.qix.net/~pheonix/decss.html [qix.net] http://www.ratol.fi/~asiipola [ratol.fi]
http://www.reapers.org [reapers.org]
http://www.redgnatt.homestead.com [homestead.com]
http://www.redrival.com/chimx/computer s.html [redrival.com]
http://www.robotslave.net [robotslave.net]
http://www.rpi.edu/~jettea/dvd.html [rpi.edu]
http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~marsie [uni-frankfurt.de] http://www.scwc.net/DeCSS [scwc.net]
http://www.sealteamsix.com/phagan [sealteamsix.com]
http://www.sk3tch.com/freedecss [sk3tch.com]
http://www.smackfu.com/decss [smackfu.com]
http://www.spin.ch/~rca/decss [www.spin.ch]
http://www.stanford.edu/~drumz/decss [stanford.edu]
http://www.stupendous.org [stupendous.org]
http://www.subcor.com [subcor.com]
http://www.swcp.com/~ampere [swcp.com]
http://www.tar.hu/decss [www.tar.hu]
http://www.teamnismo.com/2600 [teamnismo.com]
http://www.underwhelm.org/decss [underwhelm.org]
http://www.users.on.net/johnm/DeCSS [on.net]
http://www.uwm.edu/~zachkarp [uwm.edu]
http://www.vent-soft.com/dvd [vent-soft.com]
http://www.vexed.net/CSS [vexed.net]
http://www.visi.com/~adept/liberty [visi.com]
http://www.vulgar.net/dvd [vulgar.net]
http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~echerry/dvd [warren-wilson.edu]
http://www.webnx.com/tuna [webnx.com]
http://www.webzsite.com/decss [webzsite.com]
http://www.wizardworkshop.com [wizardworkshop.com]
http://www.wolfpaw.net/~decss [wolfpaw.net]
http://www.worldcity.nl/~frank/dvd [worldcity.nl]
http://www.wwcn.org/~grit/free [wwcn.org]
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/dvd [xs4all.nl]
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rasch/dvd [xs4all.nl]
http://www.zeal.net/~pyro/DeCSS [zeal.net]
http://www.zip.com.au/~zzz/dvd [zip.com.au]
http://www.zone.ee/DeCSS [www.zone.ee]
http://www3.50megs.com/dvd4free [50megs.com]
This announcement brought to you by the DeCSS Polar Bear.
Re:I find this fascinating... (Score:1)
WHAT?
I dont know which university you attend, but colleges as a whole are very concerned with fostering new and original thought. Well, maybe the actual admininstration could care less, but most teachers care.
Now I dont mean radical ideas or the belief that you need to stick it to "The Man". You must realize that most profesors are old and of a different generation. They can be expected to treat people who follow the norm and people who rebel against society equally. It may not be "right", but the world is full of unfair situations. If you want to be rebelious, then you have to pay the concequences.
(and yes, I know that I am a bad speller)
Re:Universities (Score:1)
That's irrelevant. While the combined wealth of the colleges may be considerable, currently the colleges do not make any contribution to OUCS. OUCS is run entirely by university central funds, with the same budget as any other UK university.
As somebody who used to be network & systems admin at one of the Oxford Colleges (Hi Dave!), the amounts available for IT are really rather pityful, similar to the situation in most British Universities (outside CS depts). Alan Gay (who is a reasonable chap) doesn't have hordes of lawyers at his beck and call, but he does have some serious hackers working at OUCS (Malcolm Beattie, of perl5 fame, for example) who should have been able to tell him enough about DeCSS (real, not the fake one) to enable him to stand up to this sort of legal bullying. There should be plenty of people in Oxford who can and will fight this battle. Leave 'em to it.
Re:Universities (Score:1)
Nope. This was a student's personal machine.
The student was hosting his web page on his personal machine? Or was it actually hosted on a University machine? Either way, it was probably going through the University's lines.
Not that that makes it right...
Re:Universities (Score:1)
--
Universities == ISP (?) (Score:1)
As the content was supposedly only a spoof version of DeCSS, that only leaves a link that could be remotely contentious. A whole page removed because of a free-speech link? This is getting crazy.
Fight this - make more DeCSS 'spoofs' and put the links everywhere. ISP's will start to question this for themselves eventually, especially if they're asked to remove dozens of pages rather than one single one - they will bow to the user at the end of the day.
Re:Janet vs the World? Hardly. (Score:3)
9.2 seems incredibly sweeping. If I put up a research paper showing that racism is endemic in the police, that will cause annoyance and inconvenience [to the police]. If 9.2 is enforced properly, JANET should be sued for misrepresenting itself as a network suitable for sharing academic information. As for "needless anxiety", who is to say what "needless" is? This website has illustrated an important point so I would say it was arguable whether the anxiety was needless.
Hmmm, it pisses me off that Oxford has a women-only college. There must be many people like me who find that annoying. So their website is "likely to cause annoyance" and should be yanked under 9.2.
Re:The power of ignorance. (Score:1)
Re:As a former Oxford student... (Score:4)
As a sysadmin at one of the science departments here at Oxford I can say that not all the people in the University should be tarred with the same brush.
Knowing the way the University works, it's probable that the decision to pull the page was probably made at the Proctor's office level and not at the OUCS (Computing Services) level.
I cannot talk for the people in the Computing Laboratories (CompSci department) but there ARE some really knowledgable and on-the-ball hackers (original meaning) running computers around the University.. and their average age is WELL below the 65 you state.
Myself, I would have tried to explain the technicalities to the powers that be.. however, in the end if this had happened within our department I would probably have had to bow to the pressure also.
I'm not saying that the student was right or wrong in putting the page up as he did, but every person who gets an account on any system within the University has to sign an agreement that includes the proviso to remove any service pending an investigation.
All this sort of stuff is new territory for everyone and there seems to be a great worry over setting the wrong president for the future.
Stephen Usher
(Note, I'm speaking for myself and not for the Department of Earth Sciences or the University of Oxford in any official manner. These are my opinions and mine alone.)
PS. What's wrong with Solaris or any other UNIX type OS for servers in a university? (Oh dear, I can hear those flame burners being lit as I type..
Re:DeCSS Napster and the DMCA (Score:1)
DMCA may have some connection to WIPO, which itself refers in many places to the Berne convention. Article 11 which the apparently the one relevent to DeCSS is very relient on both the rest of the treaty and national law.
Indeed reading the entire treaty it's questionable if DeCSS is a violation at all. It requires some twisting of the wording to make control of the playing of digital media (aquired in accordence with article 6 or article 7) entirely on the basis of the operating system of the player an issue covered by the treaty. (Similarly the region coding scheme is questionable, about the only way in which it might make sense would be for the MPAA to persue DVD wholesalers who sold DVDs out of region, which AFAIK they are not doing.)
Re:DeCSS Napster and the DMCA (Score:1)
Maybe it also extends the law, but it only applies in the USA. Nowhere in the treaty does it say anything about the national laws of one signatory applying to all others. Indeed it explicitally allows for national laws to restrict its applicibility.
Re:DeCSS Napster and the DMCA (Score:1)
What part of the DMCA encompasses article 8 of the treaty? Which the actions of the MPAA would appear to be in breach of.
Re:Universities (Score:1)
Well, others have said that this is untrue.
The university owns the machines.
Nope. This was a student's personal machine.
The students don't pay for their access.
In this case, you're right, but in general students are charged a connection fee for access.
When you get your account, you sign an agreement saying that you give the university the right to your data
Nope, not in this case.
It all depends what you find important. If all that's important is a quiet life, and you'll allow anyone with lawyers to trample your rights to protect it, then Oxford did the right thing.
I don't find that terribly important.
Re:As a former Oxford student... (Score:1)
Maybe true on average but not in all cases. The best physics teacher I have ever met got into to Oxford from a crap state school. Hello Philip Britton if you're reading this! (which I doubt)
Bwahahahahahaha!!!! (Score:1)
MPAA in UK ? (Score:1)
By what miracle people react to its whining ?
the real University policy (Score:1)
If you read the letter of university regulations, facilities are only for academic purposes.
Being fairly open and nice, universities will let you put pretty much anything up on your webpage (after all you're learning!)
If they get complaints about this, they can pull your page and even your access. You don't have any rights, if you want your page to have rights, put it on a commercial webhost. If they pull the page then, you can argue the toss about their AUP.
One thing I remember from the JANET regulations, which is a whole book, is that you must not do anything to damage the university's reputation. Your webpage reflects on the whole university, not just yourself.
The actual merits of any case are not important, if the university doesn't like it, they can pull it!!!
I think the best thing anyone can do whenever a page is taken offline like this is to ensure its mirrored 10x around the world.
Each time you strike us down, we will rise up more powerful than before!
Re:Free Speech at Universities (Score:1)
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:1)
Re:A way to manipulate Oxford University (Score:1)
Re:MPAA in UK ? (Score:1)
The problem is people taking it seriously, rather than it getting riduculed, bruised fingers (and maybe a few unpopular passport stamps if MPAA people try things in person.)
Re:This has nothing to do with free speech (Score:2)
Not the way I see it. I think Oxford took the path of least resistance, which given how trivial the matter is to Oxford's core concerns seems pretty reasonable.
If some CS grad student had written a paper for publication, and that paper discussed the technology involved in DeCSS or whatever, and then MPAA got involved, that's when Oxford should put up a fight, because allowing its students to freely publish academic papers and pursue academic research is Oxford's core business.
Last stronghold of intellectual freedom ?? (Score:1)
-------------------
Obviously not written by someone who has been to a college or university in a few years. Freedom of speech and non-comformity are almost dead on campuses these days. You conform to the rigid standards of thought or you pay.
I went to school in the 70's and groups used to stand up in the cafeteria and announce rallies and forums. Opposing people would boo them when they were through. You stand up and announce something in the cafeteria today and they will arrest unless you conform to the university standard and then they will bust the people who boo.
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:1)
Re:This has nothing to do with free speech (Score:2)
Actually, it's more like you come home from work one day and find that your landlord has removed *your* poster championing human rights in Burma because lawyers for the government of Burma don't like the message it portrays.
Furthermore, regardless of the free speech involved I don't want my windows smashed by some SLORC party apparatchik.Silly. This only happens if you're *in* Burma. In this case, the MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of *AMERICA* and the University is in the *UK*. Despite all the globalist garbage being spewed today, the UK is still a *SOVEREIGN* nation.
Furthermore, it is _NOT_ the job of Universities to defend some random student's pet cause.
That isn't what happened. Rather, the University caved into being mugged by a bunch of common criminals (AKA lawyers) hailing from an organization engaged in illegal activities in their own country (violating our Constitution) who have no proper jurisdiction over the place in question.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
It has been said that it is part of my job to deal with Buraucracy and lawyers. My responsibility is to provide a service to more than just one student. If one student placed me in a position where I could loose my service for all the others then I would have to drop his service till I could be sure that the others would be unaffected
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:1)
I believe that in a Libel case in the US, its up to the person accused to prove that the allegations are lies, but I could be wrong there.
the last stronghold of intellectual freedom... (Score:1)
Re:Universities (Score:2)
This is Oxford we're talking about.
I believe they *do* have all that much money.
Look before you pull (Score:3)
Re:Janet vs the World? Hardly. (Score:1)
Paul Robinson <postmaster@paul.washington.dc.us> [mailto]
http://paul.washington.dc.us [washington.dc.us]
That is a complete lie (Score:1)
No: students do pay for their access, via tuition fees and connection charge (or haven't you been awake for the last 5 years).
Go read the Janet AUP. Go learn about freedom of speech, expression and academic discourse. Get with the program!
It's called 'civil disobedience' (Score:1)
I could post a long written interpretation of a growl right here, but I think you get the point already.
Re:Not this time (Score:1)
English legal system (Score:1)
Administrative effort and lawyers fees? (Score:1)
Don't worry (Score:1)
Re:Amazed that Oxford doesn't see the student's po (Score:1)
British politician, Oxford university aren't go
to pay my legal bills. If this student had just
written controversial then the university should
defend him. If he wants to do something illegal
then he should take responsibility for it himself.
The power of ignorance. (Score:1)
-Dusty Hodges
Universities (Score:3)
Where are we? Where we always were! (Score:2)
This has nothing to do with free speech (Score:2)
It's their network, they say what goes on and what comes off, end of story. If I come back from work one day to find someone has stuck a poster on my front door championing human rights in Burma, I'll take it off thanks very much, because whilst I agree with the cause it's my front door and I say what goes on it. Furthermore, regardless of the free speech involved I don't want my windows smashed by some SLORC party apparatchik.
Furthermore, it is _NOT_ the job of Universities to defend some random student's pet cause. I, like the rest of UK taxpayers, pay Oxford and other universities to educate people, hopefully in a broad way, hopefully including such issues as will help them generally in later life. I'd say this student has learnt a pretty important lesson - if use use facilities kindly made available to you at no cost to make trivial provocative statements about something you feel is important, you will get nowhere.
Way to go Oxford, I say.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
Again, I can't speak for the UK. In the States, we are told over and over again that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Notification by an interested party does not constitute proof. I believe the only morally responsbile thing to do is to immedaitely archive the site in question and begin looking into it at (as you say) a reasonable time. But side with the student, because he is your constituent.
In fact, the most reasonable response is to fire a letter back demanding documentation for the alleged infringement. Have them have to assert, under penalty of perjury, that they are indeed the copright owners. But you do not have to roll over immediately. Make them get formal and involved. Otherwise you are surrendering your responsibility and you are failing your bosses and your students.
Re:A letter to Mr. Alan Gay (Score:2)
Gerv
UK vs USA (Score:3)
However, this does not mean that the truth always wins in US courts. Remember O.J. Simpson? On the other hand the cases sometimes are simply ridiculous, remember Monica vs Clinton?
So, I would say, the rest of the capitalist world outside the USA is scared of the USA litigation system, and the non-capitalist countries either simply ignore the USA rules or suffer from it without even being given a chance to defend themselves.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:2)
This is true, and unfortunate, but then I'm pragmatic about this stuff. I can actually say more (of what I want to say) in the UK than I can in the U.S. UK newspapers and t.v. are actually freer to publish a wider range of opinions than in the US because they don't have pressure groups and commercial interests holding the advertising leash. Magazines in the UK have published articles that in the US would have seen the magazine lose all its advertisers, and probably have personal threats made to, if not carried out on, its senior staff.
As for the monarchy I'm damned if I can see what difference that makes to anything much, although I'm told it helps the tourist industry. Mind you if recent news about Baby Blair is anything to go by there are people who are just as idiotically interested in the inside of Number 10 as the Palace. Very strange.
Re:What a stupid thing to do (Score:3)
Right. Don't cause trouble. Don't make waves. The lawyers know best.
The major corporations are going to try to take a yard for every inch legislatures give them in the narrowing of civil liberties. The time to fight them is now, not when you're allowed only to post about what you did last summer and what brand of breakfast cereal you happen to like. [Sounds depressingly like an AOL chat room, doesn't it?]
Many university administrators are gutless wonders, although some were professors, and I would have hoped that someone at Oxford would have asked questions first and shot later.
Dave
Re:Universities are not the last stronghold ... (Score:2)
The truth of the matter is, the *INTERNET* is the last stronghold of intellectual freedom. Or, more accurately, its the *FIRST* stronghold of intellectual freedom, and that's why its so fucking cool.
So it hardly suprises me that Oxford bent to the will of the MPAA. As it has always been doing, pandering to the whims of the uberclass, which, in america, is now represented by corporations - as opposed to england, where it was all land barons and drunk kings.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
Why can't people see that we are all in this together? It's not good enough to protect some users by sacrificing one. It's not good enough to allow "just a little" intimidation to keep your job, or keep your job easy. It's not enough to say, "Well, it will all be sorted out eventually, but it's not my fight."
It is your fight, and it is my fight, and it is the fight of all people everywhere who have not yet surrendered their humanity, who believe that human dignitiy trumps economic imperative, who value freedom and crave freedom and breathe freedom. Ligitgation through intidation, like legislation through litigation, eats away at the core values that make life worth living and the democracies worth defending.
It will not be the computer that will dehumanize us. It will the powers that use the computer to strip away our freedoms and our dignity ... and it will be the sheep who roll over rather than raise a fuss, who acquiesce in the smothering of others, just so long as it's quiet until their turn comes.
Re:DeCSS Napster and the DMCA (Score:2)
Having said that, I don't see your particular point in the WIPO Treaty, so that provision might actually be an American twist. Even still, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was in the British version as well.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
You could take this further; start writing to universities, ISPs and small companies up and down the land, with letters written in threatening lawyerese demanding that they pull particular Web pages. There could even be a 'form letter' program that puts something together from a set of stock phrases, adds a convincing-looking letterhead, and prints it out to be signed and posted. 'DIY Internet Censorship Kit' or something.
All this would be fairly pointless, unless it managed to generate a public outcry over freedom of speech and censorship. (I'm thinking of the UK here, but there's no reason it shouldn't apply to other countries.)
Re:Universities (Score:3)
Universities are pretty passive when it comes to defending freedoms...it's a never ending tug of war, really. Thats why people need to stay active: institutions are never going to keep us on track. They'll cave in to corporate and government demands without students yelling and screaming. The university I just gradauted from did this kind of thing ALL the time. Corporations have been really increasing their presence on campus, from the corporation funded research lab to the coke contract for all soft drinks on campus (I want my mountain dew, god damn it).
Idiots on /. (Score:2)
Now, for the unwashed morons who didn't read the page, guess what THIS DeCSS does? It's a perl script that strips Cascading Style Sheets from html! How is that illegal? Clearly, any moron (even one from the MPAA) could see this.
And now to the fucking lamer(s) who upmarked this post: get a clue. I used to be quite in favor of the moderation system on
Re:Information Nazi. (Score:2)
'Apparently the university computer services have talked to their lawyers and reckon it's against British copyright law (despite there being nothing on there except "DeCSS is a ludicrous thing to use to try to pirate DVDs, the code hasn't been here since January, try OpenDVD instead.").'
Adrian Baugh in http://cryptome.org/ox-chill.htm [cryptome.org]
But when I wrote it, I was talking in the general sense. I was trying to point out, that there was a false assumption that the MPAA sent people in different juresdictions the same letter.
--locust
Re:Universities == ISP (?) (Score:2)
Correct, anything is lawful that isn't explicitly unlawful so unless actually forbidden by law you do have the right to speek freely but there are no limits in parliament's powers so no guarantee that they can't restrict speech anyway they please.
And a UK national isn't even a citizen - he's just a subject of the Royal family.
Nonsensical. You are correct that a British national is a subject of the crown (or of the queen if you like, certainly not of "the royal family") but that doesn't mean that he/she isn't also a "citizen", look the word up if you don't know what it means.
An EU directive, to all intents and purposes, introduces a Freedom of Speech rule into UK governance - HOWEVER, to get it to take effect, you'd have to bring your case all the way to the European Court, and, since there's no Free Speech rule in the UK, you'll never get that far...
What on earth is that supposed to mean? What do you think would happen to you first, and how would it be prevented by a free speech provision in British law? The British government can't (lawfully) prevent you from bringing such a case, and if they wish to act unlawfully then a free speech guarantee would be irrelevant anyway.
Re:Information Nazi. (Score:2)
To some poeple/institutions the potential costs of ignoring even an official looking document from an organization that has vastly more resources than they do are greater than any benefit of ignoring it. This is especially true where some extranational (non-us) law applies. Bottom line, most people can not afford to pay lawyers. Did you think that that the MPAA or anyone else would go after somebody who did?
A) it should expend any legal expense other than 3.5 seconds to ignore the request on the grounds that it is baseless.
How do you know the request is baseless under the local law?! Are you an expert in british IP law? I keep reading about what somebody should do or how they should react. But a lot of it is a) the same points made over and over again to a different headline or b) people saying "yeah, I would have really given them hell." without knowing the situation on the ground. More generally, a particular individual may be willing to fight, but the people that depend upon him or her, would not be able to live (use the term loosely) through that fight.
Don't get me wrong I agree, that the guy may want to move DeCSS somewhere else, somewhere more willing and capable of fighting the MPAA, but I disagree completely with the way you said it.
--locust
DeCSS Napster and the DMCA (Score:4)
Maybe, we can bring a class action lawsuit against RIAA/MPAA for violating the DMCA - I'm sure some US lawyer would LOVE to get hold of some of their money
Re:Universities (Score:5)
If you don't think that the parody could serve a legitimate purpose as social commentary, consider the agitation it caused in this case.
This trouble isn't "unnecessary", unless you feel that the student's right to free speech is "unnecessary". I'm sorry, but the student's web site was legitimate and any trouble you'd have with the lawyers or the college bureaucracy would have been part of your job.
I wouldn't have been so surprised or even incensed if this had been a corporate site. We expect that kind of reasoning in the Corporate World. I had hoped a university -- especially one as venerable as Oxford -- would see matters more clearly. Sadly, the business of higher education is becoming business.
University bastions of burocrats, not freedom (Score:2)
If this is true, then we are all sunk from the beginning. Universities like to market themselves as institutions of free expression, but the truth is that they have never been bastions of freedom at all.
Recall the purges in Germany that presaged the holocaust. Universities did not speak up or object when Jewish professors, students, and administrators were run out, nor did their collegues individually.
Universities did not object, and indeed in many cases supported, police actions against student movements protesting the war in Vietnam. In almost every case where universities claim credit for having supported free speach or controversial points of view, it has been the students or faculty who have spoken out, often despite administrative disapproval. Universities are happy to claim credit in retrospect for laudable actions of their staff or student bodies, but as anyone who has ever been involved in a protest knows, at the time those very so-called heros are generally being threatened with expulsion or worse.
Do not be fooled by marketing. As the actions of numerous American universities, including Oxford, show, they are anything but bastions of freedom. They are large, burocratic institutions run by civil servants who are far more interested in the political infighting of their respective departments, and arranging their careers in a politically expedient manner, than they are in going out on a limb to protect some student or professor's right to free expression, especially if it means going up against some well paid New York Lawfirm financed by one of the largest industries in this country (the entertainment industry, in this case).
In short, if you are serious about fighting the erosion of your freedoms, do not look toward American Universities (which are profit driven entities after all). Look instead toward the ACLU and the EFF.
Re:University bastions of burocrats, not freedom (Score:2)
Yes, I know Oxford is in the UK. I was speaking of American universities because that is where I attended school, and the same myth ("universities are bastions of free speach") is repeated here ad nauseum. I was expressing strong opinions which I know apply to American Universities and, it is reasonable to assume, probably applies to academic institutions in much of the world, including the UK. I probably should have inserted this little disclaimer in the original post...
Re:Universities (Score:2)
This will continue until someone has the good sense to tell them where to get off. If the Oxford admin people had any sense they would have sent the MPAA letter back with an altas and an invoice for their time.
content style sheets (Score:2)
--
Re:Information Nazi. (Score:2)
Because the request was to remove software that wasn't even there.
The guy posted an application to remove Cascading Style Sheets from html code. The MPAA asked them to remove an application for decoding DVDs.
--
Re:Where are we? Where we always were! (Score:2)
No, that only applies if you have a DMCA agent. (Score:2)
I just checked The Directory of Online Service Provide Agents [loc.gov] and Oxford University isn't listed. Probably didn't bother registering an agent because they're not in the US... or can non-US ISP's even register?
Re:Free Speech at Universities (Score:3)
Earlier, the poster said:
This position is particularly untenable considering how easy it would have been to checkBut even if it were difficult, the university should have checked first. A university is a privileged place. Part of the price is a larger responsibility to speak out, to defend the free flow of ideas, to resist conformity pressures. Sadly most universities fail to see this, but it's true nonetheless.
I would have thought that Oxford was more than a vocational school focused only on the bottom line. I would have thought that a venerable institution like that, having fought hard for its liberties and rights, would stand up to penny-ante scare tactics and drawn a line in the sand. I guess I was wrong.
heck, who needs them fancy-pants city lawyers... (Score:2)
Seriously, though, things like the DMCA and UCITA may be irrelevant. In many cases, the person providing the material does not own his or her own server, and the people running such things have shown all too much willingness to remove anything that might be vaguely illegal or controversial. As long as corporations can bully the providers, there's no need for laws.
It's also rather sad that, judging by that message, the administrators are blaming the student for their own confusion and hasty decisions.
Another: (Score:2)
A way to manipulate Oxford University (Score:5)
Cool, somebody in Oxford put a page up saying "Oxford is better than Cambridge", and I'll send a faked letter, supposedly from the University of Cambridge, threatening to sue for defamation. Then let's see if they remove from their website all claims that they are any good at all.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
Information Nazi. (Score:2)
Because he obviously didn't care about taking care of a legal issue without first contacting the parties at stake and finding out what it really is.
Then he goes off and makes fun of it because it 'expends' legal people.
The thing is:
A) it should expend any legal expense other than 3.5 seconds to ignore the request on the grounds that it is baseless.
and
B) I would run from this organization because they obviously do not care about the aviliablity of information and/or the legality of it, and any web pages on these systems might be at stake very easily.
I would move pages away from their systems if they can't figure out to effectively service their customers, the students and faculty.
---
at least umn.edu has decent admins who wouldn't pull shit like this.
Re:Universities (Score:3)
A) a univ. just said "yeah, even though its not it, We dont care, free flow of information means shit to us! We just dont want your corp lawyer dogs coming at us!" What kind of implications does this have in the future for them kind of scares me.
B) the data was not illegal or anything
This is censorship via corp. strongarming. I think people who value their data in public access on these systems should *move* immedately to ensure that the freedom of their information is continued.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
And exactly what make you think such a case would cost millions of dollars to defend? I doubt they'd have to cancel the rugby program. Not to mention their ethical responsibility to provide intellectual space for the free exchange of ideas.
If you goto school so you can get ahead in the rat race, then yes this is the proper thing to do. You could *gasp* insult your corporate masters.
American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:4)
What law would you say it could possibly violate? Remember we don't have things like UCITA and DCMA here [yet].
Remember what that lawyer tried so hard to get Ali G to understand. "American law doesn't apply in the UK. You can't *ever* ``plead the fifth'' here!"
Re:The Uni acted correctly though could have been (Score:4)
Now Oxford has bigger problems:
1) They have presented themselves as buckling under easily to legal bullies, and so there are likely to be more legal bullies in the wings.
2) They have presented themselves as not respecting freedom of speech. (The material the student posted was the spoof code that was designed to thumb its nose at the MPAA in protest of its activities.) This is not good for PR, not good for admissions, not good for fundraising.
Nobody wants to see Oxford dragged in to court against the MPAA.. I've been in this position myself so I know it ain't pleasant - or cheap... but, my god, if you didn't even do anything....
Re:Universities (Score:2)
Oxford (and Cambridge) University are run on a collegiate system. Each college functions as an independent institution, although they share many teaching resources. A couple of examples from Cambridge:
New Hall College has been technically bankrupt for about ten years.
Trinity College is one of the richest institutions in the country. If I remember rightly, it is #3 landowner after the church and the crown.
What a clever thing to do (Score:2)
The important thing here is that MPAA has ABSOLUTELY NO right to ask that page to be removed, because it has NO relevance to the court case.
As it is, it portrayed the MPAA for exactly what it is: a bunch of spooks who send their lawyers to shut the mouth of anyone that mentions terms that frighten them.
(And it's even more frightening that they're chasing people in the UK. Since when did the DMCA apply outside the USA? It's not a case of international copyright control - the Berne convention, AFAIK, does not prohibit reverse-engineering, which is just why the DMCA was required in the first place.)
I think it'd actually make an excellent publicity stunt if used properly.
Re:Universities (Score:2)
This is the main reason that they (MPAA, RIAA, Mattel) fight litigate the way they do. If put the fear into ISPs(and the university is their ISP), and companies will not dare go after them or speak up against them.
Re:Free Speech at Universities (Score:2)
Well, if it's anything like here in Cambridge, he should at least be able to get his network connection fee back, because yanking a blatently legal page is probably breach of contract. But frankly it'd be better to get a page like that hosted by a free ISP who refuses to yank stuff until there's a court order. [uk2.net anyone?]
Janet vs the World? Hardly. (Score:3)
Winner: JaNET, MPAA, Oxford Uni, et al.
I guess a protest or petition outside a library would be fine (see enough of 'em...), but take the argument to a new, under-understood electronic forum, and you can't do a thing. Freedom of speech appears to be a myth.
Still, with all these rules as to how we can speak, maybe an AI English-Language Finite State Machine is just around the corner....
Re:Universities (Score:2)
As has been pointed out, that doesn't apply to ox.ac.uk. But anyway, if you're a level B domain and your users are allowed and expected to run web servers, there's no excuse for not knowing at least a basic amount of the legality of stuff, for example that DeCSS isn't even remotely illegal [in the UK] and so any attempt to litigate would get thrown out of court.
Re:Free Speech at Universities - Oxford and UK law (Score:5)
However, the Code does seem primarily concerned with visiting speakers rather than publication (and predates the popularity of the Web by some years). And if exercising this freedom is outside the scope of academic activity, then the expenses incurred are the responsibility of the person organising the speech, meeting etc. - not (in general) the University.
The 1986 Education Act protects (in the UK) freedom of speech and assembly within universities. However, Geoffrey Robertson QC (a distinguished UK human rights lawyer) comments that this was introduced by the government of the day because several of its own members had been prevented from speaking at universities by demonstrations (or the fear of demonstrations) against their policies.
Re:Non-academic use (Score:2)
A letter to Mr. Alan Gay (Score:5)
__________________________________________
Dear Mr. Gay,
This letter concerns OUCS's reaction to the complaints of the Motion Picture Association of America about DeCSS. As I understand it, (i) the MPAA has claimed that DeCSS is used to copy DVDs, (ii) a web site at Oxford University contained a link to a copy of DeCSS, and (iii) OUCS has forced the removal of that site.
There are three points that I hope you will be willing to consider.
First, please look at this simple example of some encrypted information: NbszIbeBMjuumfMbnc. In this case, by shifting each letter one to the left, we can easily decrypt the information: MaryHadALittleLamb. Notice, though, that "NbszIbeBMjuumfMbnc" can be copied (by hand, by computer, by whatever) just as easily as "MaryHadALittleLamb". So encryption does not provide any protection from copying. The information stored on DVDs (i.e. movies) is encrypted, but as with "NbszIbeBMjuumfMbnc", this encryption does not provide protection against copying. DeCSS does essentially one thing: it decrypts the information stored on DVDs. Hence DeCSS does not do anything that that aids in copying DVDs.
Second, you might well ask, "If the above is true, then why is the MPAA so upset?" The answer is that the MPAA does have a use for encryption: to collect extra money, in a way that is not easily visible to the consumer. Because DVDs are encrypted, each DVD player must include some decryption software. Currently, every DVD player uses decryption software that is sourced from the MPAA. The MPAA charges a fee for each copy of this software. Consumers just pay for the DVD player, but (unbeknownst to them) the player manufacturer pays a fee to the MPAA for each player sold. If DeCSS becomes widely used, then the MPAA will no longer collect those fees. The MPAA cannot copyright their own decryption algorithm, because algorithms cannot be copyrighted. So they choose to obfuscate, intimidate, and lie.
Third, this is more than just a "game", as you allege in your message to ox.talk of 2000-05-18. The purpose of DVD encryption is to get extra money from consumers. This may or may not be ethical (I would argue that it is not). But it is surely unethical for the MPAA to allege that their actions are to prevent copying. The purpose of the web site was to protest against such allegations. The actions of OUCS thus amount to disallowing a reasonable, and legal (as you can verify), protest against corporate disingenuity and to accepting the profit-motivated obfuscations, intimidations, and lies of the MPAA. Do you believe that these are reasonable actions?
Sara Chan
__________________________________________
liberalism n. The use of compassionate rhetoric for authoritarian ends.
Oxford did absolutely the Wrong Thing (Score:3)
However, once the fact comes to light that this software is indeed NOT illegal, the site should have been immediately put back into place. Oxford has nothing to gain by extending this mistake.
Finally, Oxford backs up its decision with a terrible reason: "We're in the business of education, not controversy". Baloney! Controversy is education. This particular issue could be discussed for hours in curriculums dealing with journalistic, legal, or computer science and reveal a great deal of information that must be considered when engaged in any profession of these and many other areas.
As for Oxford's legal costs, they would never become an issue if they would stop and prove to litigants like the MPAA that they understand and know these types of cases are frivilous and won't stand up in court. To do anything less puts you in the path of being continually pushed around.
What a wonderful precedent, Oxford.
Re:American law doesn't apply in the UK (Score:2)
Er, do as of 1993, under the European Convention on Human Rights. Although currently it's a bit useless because you have to go all the way to the European Court of Justice to get it enforced. As of October, the convention will be part of British law (not just European law) so it will be easier to get upheld.
It is a somewhat bizzare form of government we have.
I find this fascinating... (Score:4)
Secondly. I sort of disagree with the article on the whole topic of universities being our last bastion of freedom. Look at napster. Universities were some of the first institutions to ban it. Look at the mid 30's. Universities in germany were sponsoring book burnings even before Hitler came to absolute power. To say defending a University just because it's a school or some such argument is sort of, well, dogmatic. The key thing to remember is the phrase "give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile." If the MPAA is going to start screwing with anyone and everyone who writes about DeCSS (Ironic that it wasn't even reverse engineered in the states), then anyone and everyone needs to fight the MPAA, and the DMCA, and any other law or organization that aims to take away rights which we feel are worth fighting for. If you let these kinds of acts go unnoticed when they're against "small" people - like joe user on the internet, then the crap that goes on at Oxford, or anywhere else for that matter, is moot.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network