Fighting UCITA 177
On Oct. 1, UCITA will become law in Maryland (Virginia passed a version of UCITA too, but delayed the effective date of the law until July 1, 2001). Infoworld has an article about Iowa considering "bomb-shelter" legislation to protect Iowans from UCITA-based laws passed in other states, and offers a few helpful hints for software purchasers. My suggestion is this: don't buy software from any UCITA-state company, or any national company whose licensing says you are bound by the laws of a UCITA-state. There's simply no reason to take risks like that.
Let me take that one farther... (Score:1)
Let me take that one farther. Don't _buy_ software. Support and use open source projects.
What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
Simple Solution (Score:2)
Maybe I'll just avoid buying software all together (Score:2)
Mind you, UCITA doesn't affect us foreigners in other countries...
Oh and BTW.... (Score:3)
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Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Would be nice... (Score:1)
All the more reason.. (Score:1)
It's a great thing that this fair nation that the Founding Fathers made. It's a shame the people don't give a fuck. Passive electorates are the bane of democracy. If the electorates were active, this would never have become law. See where you get when you just think it'll fix itself in the courts?
civil disobedience (Score:2)
If you could convince them to arrest you, you could take it up the courts as a protest...
Want to work at Transmeta? MicronPC? Hedgefund.net? AT&T?
Re:Let me take that one farther... (Score:2)
Online sales from Canada (Score:2)
More reason for choice... (Score:3)
Don't buy stuff from UCITA bound companies eh? Good luck! The advantages that using UCITA laws give are so great that we're going to be lucky if companies don't at least try to release their software under UCITA provisions. Are best bet is to hope that for comercial software some companies will recognise a market for non-UCITA software and provide for that market. But with the current state of the computer industry that seems unlikly. There just aren't that many software companies for critical stuff.
All the more reason to use OpenSource... Maybe this could end up being a big boost to OpenSource? Lets hope so...
Re:Oh and BTW.... (Score:1)
Rome wasn't burned in a day (Score:1)
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Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
What we need to start working toward. (Score:2)
That does seem to be part of the point of the thing, I agree.
What we need to start working toward is a "UCITA-Free" symbol that could be certified and awarded by something like the EFF, letting consumers know that no consumer-rights-destroying license provisions exist for the software.
Fighting UCITA (Score:5)
But there's something interesting about UCITA, the idea that someone can be held to a "clickwrap", or "shrinkwrap" when the usual contractual element of "meeting of minds" may in fact not be present.
Send a 6 year old into a s/w store to buy a copy of "Learning to Read v1.0". If they have the cash, the store will certainly sell the s/w, but did the kid read the shrinkwrap? What if (obvious in this hypothetical) they can't read?. Were they *legally competent* to agree to the terms? Can the store clerk make those determinations?
I suggest that many of us who operate web sites put up notices: "by entering this web site (beyond the main page) you agree ..."
If a "clickwrap" agreement can be made to stick, then stick it to them!. We have a lot more of the web than they do, they must agree to our terms to access it.
And our terms should be to make UCITA onerous, so that it's tossed out.
State vs. Using State Laws (Score:3)
However, Michael's point regarding companies that say that you're bound to UCITA regulations should definitely be boycotted. Hell, boycott might be too weak of a word. I will not only boycott these products -- I will actively encourage others to stay the hell away from them.
But please, let us Virginians (and Marylanders) be. We don't like the law either!
-Waldo
Re:Let me take that one farther... (Score:3)
You can disclaim all liability under current law. The only trouble is will a "shrink wrap" license hold up in court. I'm betting that GPL will hold up where as licenses that restrict your rights beyond what you're granted under copyright and fair use will not. GPL grants you additional rights that you are not normally allowed under current laws if you are willing to abide by a few conditions placed on the exercise of those additional rights.
I've also argued here before that UCITA is good for Free Software, since it makes the GPL equally as enforceable as any other license. I'm not arguing against UCITA. I'm arguing against the use of software that comes with restrictive and exclusionary licensing, in other words, software that is not free.
Re:Online sales from Canada (Score:2)
Not soon enough! (Score:2)
However, apart from the dangerous implications for commercial software, I'm worried about the effect on micro-programmers. I believe there was some question of liability if a programmer released software as "freeware" or some similarly badly-defined software. I'm pretty sure GPL is safe, but how many single-weekend programs have an agreement at all? People will stop releasing these often-useful programs if they have to go through the hassle of licensing each one.
If we're going to hold a demonstration, I vote we get 1000s of copies of boxed software and burn the shrinkwrap off them!
Re:civil disobedience (Score:1)
If you've been paying attention to the DeCSS case at all, you would realize that depending on the courts to over turn these dumb-ass laws is a risky position to put yourself in.
Fighting this after the fact is the wrong approach to take. For those states that haven't passed UCITA, we need to begin lobbying or State representatives and attorney generals. I've already contacted the my Michigan representatives, no response as of yet, and the Attorney General who only said they are still evaluating and are aware of the controversy surrounding it. So about the only thing we can do is let each of our representatives know how bad this law really is!
Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion.
Re:civil disobedience (Score:4)
Any better ideas?
Yes. Only use Free Software. That is the ultimate in civil disobedience, refusing to go along with the game of market economics as applied to software, where such economics do not strictly apply.
Re:VA Linux (Score:1)
UCITA? (Score:1)
Re:Oh and BTW.... (Score:1)
Before you condemn, RTFB (Score:5)
A brief discussion occured on the bill after its Maryland passage at TECHNOCRAT.NET [technocrat.net]. People might also be interested on what Del. Kumar Barve, chair of the House subcommitee that examined the bill, had to say:
I'm not saying that the Maryland law is perfect, just that you ought to know what your talking about before you express an opinion.
Bob Kopp
It's great that Iowa's trying, but... (Score:1)
IANAL, but that sounds suspiciously like an infringement of states' rights. Much as I hate this law, I do not believe a state has a right to automatically assume jurisdiction of a case simply because the laws of the other state involved seem unfair.
Or does it? Someone comment, one way or the other...
Who cares? (Score:1)
- Software developers
- Every consumer advocacy organization that has looked at it
- Large software customers
- Librarians
- Other independent information content developers (writers, photographers)
- Entertainment industry
- Magazine and newspaper publishers
- Many lawyers and law professors
- UCITA has been sharply criticized by the United States' Federal Trade Commission.
erm...who is for it then?--
No Solution (Score:1)
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
Emigrate to a state that isn't completely run by big software interests.
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Re:How long will it be (Score:1)
Would any move offshore to regain profits?
Pranks? (Score:1)
Why not write a virus that randomly adds the line "You agree to sell your soul" to anything that has a paragraph written in all caps on a computer? :)
The resulting explosion of religious people screaming murder would be more than enough political controversy to kill the bill.
But is it legal? (Score:4)
But who is reading this? Even in the US? Is it 1% of people who actually read those acres of mumbo jumbo. (Even Carmack in a post on slashdot indicated his belief that nobody really read that stuff). Can a company in good conscience claim they have a "deal" with their customers when said customers don't read it because they believe it is their property since they have payed money for it.
Some people then say, that you don't buy the program, you "license" it - that i also think is slightly suspect. Hell no, i don't license it - I BUY A COPY. Its mine - go away!
Hmm..i wonder if it would work with other products You don't buy a car, you license it.. and agree never to run a red light, speed or look at girls while in the car! (You break the rules they come and take it back)
Or the license agreement for this DVD says you must behave properly infront of the TV while you watch it, so no fondling the wife!
Hmmm, i wonder if there is a future in being a "i agree" clicker. Ie, Person A has shelled out hard earned cash for a new program, he then calls person B. Person B comes over, installs the program and click on the "I agree" button and leaves again. Person A now runs the program without having agreed to anything, eh? *G*
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Just drive over, or need folks move? (Score:1)
I'm about 15 miles from Iowa.
With the Iowa law, would I have any protection by making software purchases in Iowa (and saving my receipt, you can just bet!)? Or would I need to have an address in Iowa for my protection?
One advantage to the first situation is that retailers in surrounding states would then have some (perhaps slight, but non-zero) pressure to have such 'bomb shelter' legislation in their own states. Retailers just hate losing customers. And legislatures hate losing "revenue" to surrounding states. This is a mobile society. Being 60 miles from the state border would be a mere nuisance, not an insurmountable problem.
I'm just one person. Insignificant. But the cumulative effect of many people can be noticeable. And then there's the real attention-getter: "Our (software) purchasing department is in Iowa" or "moving to Iowa". This could easily happen with some companies. Who benefits? Iowa. Folks may joke about the state, but passing this law would be one (more) smart move on Iowa's part.
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
Statements like this bother me. I happen to have a house, a good internet connection, friends, and a sense of community. So now, because my lawmakers are stupid, I have to move? While that makes a certain amount of sense, its also a complete load of bullshit. If I move, I will give up a lot - local contacts, the aforementioned material and personal things. If I stay, I am risking my career - people won't want to work with/for me, since I live in VA and we're controlled by big software interests. So I guess its off to Silicon Valley, WHERE THERE ARE NO BIG SOFTWARE INTERESTS, huh.
Re:Before you condemn, RTFB (Score:2)
Sounds like part of the GPL just got invalidated - one might argue that about "derivative works". Oops.
We're missing the REAL issue. (Score:2)
What we need to do is find an effective means of persuading the rest of the software purchasing community, and yes, that means clueless consumers, that UCITA software is evil. I hate to quote from Mein Kampf here, but we need simple slogans that simple people can understand that we can get people to repeat over and over again.
Makes me proud to be an Iowan! (Score:2)
Iowa has the Iowa Communications Network [state.ia.us], a state-owned OC-192 fiber that is primarily used for distance learning, but also hooks all the small, country schools into the internet. I believe that it is the largest state owned fiber-optic network in the US. (Oklahoma has something like it, but not on as big a scale).
Some time back there was an aritcle about the CAVE. Well, Dr. Carolina Cruz-Neira, one of the founding "mothers" if you will, of the CAVE is now at Iowa State University, preparing for the opening of the next generation of CAVE-like technologies - The C6 [iastate.edu].
Maybe we have nothing to do but pick corn and dink with computers, but I sure love this state!
Just emailed WA state key players (Score:1)
If everyone does this, slashdotting their city, county, and state reps (remember, city and county are elected and buy software), you too can make a difference! I know that by talking directly with some of the State Senators and State Reps, we kept UCITA from being passed in WA state.
Fight the good fight! They can disable our software remotely, but they can't take our Freedom!
Re:civil disobedience (Score:4)
The UCITA gives you the oportunity to return software that you don't like the license agreement for. So go into your local Best Buy (which has a no-return policy on opened software), buy something, open it up, and return it to Best Buy demanding a full refund. Get lots of your friends to do it too.
Target a particular company, say microsoft, to purchase things for. Have a specific complaint about the license agreement. (like demanding arbitration only or allowing the company to remotely disable the software.) It is far less effective if you target non-noxious EULAs. (Like the old Borland "like a book" license.)
It's legal. It will piss of Best Buy, and it will send a message.
Furthermore to make things really interesting insert a piece of paper into each package you return that looks like it came with the software but really didn't. Write on it "You have just purchased a used piece of software. I hope you didn't buy this as new.".
Then you can turn around and sue the chain for selling used merchandise as new merchandise.
Have fun!
W
Re:Oh and BTW.... (Score:1)
UCITA won't last. (Score:5)
We mostly portray UCITA as software companies vs. consumers. But when it comes down to it, it's a way for big software companies to shaft other companies, including smaller software companies.
Further, my limited experience with jury duty leads me to believe that the vast majority of lawsuits in the USA are suits between two companies, rather than a suit between a consumer and a company.
The net result is that a few very powerful software companies have set themselves up to shaft all but the largest companies in the state (who will exempt themselves by buying under a non-shrinkwrap contract). Small businesses cannot afford to operate under the conditions imposed by UCITA, and it happens that small businesses have enormous political clout in the USA.
I suspect that we'll soon see some suits against UCITA companies from small businesses, at which point either the UCITA will be found unconstitutional and struck down, or else the small businesses will be told that the law requires them to bend over and learn to enjoy it, at which point a sort of grass roots movement with much more clout than we geeks have will come into play, and state legislators will earn a spot in Guiness for their astonishing speed at backpedaling.
States are smart to want to appeal to big high tech industries. But what will they gain if the rest of their businesses move to Iowa? Someone in Iowa deserves kudos for figuring this out.
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Iowa Software Purchasing Collective (Score:2)
Re:Calling all hackers (Score:1)
Normally, I would not support such a call for illegal activity. (And yes, regardless of moral/ethical justifications, it would be illegal to hack into a company's computers to disable their software [unless of course you're the software author and you have your UCITA license BS on your side].) However, given the long and impressive list of groups opposed to UCITA [slashdot.org], and the fact that states are passing this biased legislation anyway, it is so incredibly obvious that our elected officials have passed the point of even caring about public accountability that something must be done!
You can bet that after a few high profile lawsuits by big guns like GM most software companies would think twice about backdoor timebombs and the like. And if a part of the US Government suddenly ground to halt because their software was "accidentally" disabled? Holy cow, I can't imagine that company being allowed to do business in the United States after that. (I can imagine the ATF/FBI/NSA/etc raiding the executives' homes looking for pr0n and the like -- nothing like embarassing the execs in public to make a point.)
I believe it is unconstitutional (Score:2)
A transaction between parties in 2 states is by definition commerce and therefore falls squarely in the jurisdiction of Congress. For more on this, search for "Commerce" in this article on tactics against spam [cyberspacelaw.org].
Cheers,
Ben
PS IANAL and all that.
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
So my question is, am I bound by UCITA only for software purchased by Maryland software houses, or am I bound by UCITA by software purchased in other states? For example, let's say I have a need to use Mathematica, by Wolfram Research. They're located in Illinois, but I'll be using Mathematica in Maryland. So, am I bound by UCITA? If I need compatibility with a Mathematica package, can I reverse engineer the algorithms in Mathematica?
Hopefully Maryland lawmakers will change their minds when they realize that they're probably deterring software companies than attracting them, with this bill.
Thanks for the informative post, but... (Score:1)
If Maryland adopted a better version and then gave it a name which implies it follows a bad standard, doesn't that leave them vulnerable to justifiable confusion by those who might assume they were actually adopting the standard they were pretending to adopt?
How about a "UCITA-free" sticker on software found to be free of absurd legal incumbrances?
Fight Fire with ... Water! (Score:1)
If companies can't sell UCITA protected products then it will become a dead issue.
Oh, I know the arguments: "We can't control the so-and-so...", "The users might blah blah blah...". I'm sure those same arguments came up when warranties were suggested for just about any industry. But, they did it anyway, and now a good warranty is necessary to do business.
It's time for the change.
Viral UCITA Licensing: good for GPL? (Score:1)
If you have a website with click licensing which states (in 1 point font) that by clicking the consumer hereby revokes all current and future software purchases to the GPL licensing, couldn't we virally hitchhike onto commercial software?
Under UCITA it would be legal. We just hide the terms on a page on the website and do a Gotcha! after the fact. Then all their software that isn't GPL would be GPL
Re:It's great that Iowa's trying, but... (Score:1)
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:3)
Your plaint is legitimate. You should write your elected officials, from the state level down to the local.
>So I guess its off to Silicon Valley, WHERE THERE ARE NO BIG SOFTWARE INTERESTS, huh.
I understand that Iowa is looking for a few good software startups.
I don't mean to bash you; I just want you to realize that you have to make your state legislators realize that there's a cost associated with UCITA. Perhaps they understand the concept of brain drain.
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Upcoming events... (Score:5)
If anybody's looking for a good day to protest UCITA (or even out-of-control intellectual property rights in general), I would recommend May Day, on May 1, 2000. Chances are, if you're near a relatively large city, they're going to be having a May Day celebration.
The focus of May Day is going to be anti-globalisation/anti-corporate rule, with an emphasis on labor rights. UCITA ties in with this because most of these bills are meant to help out a few corporate interests despite screwing people (I refuse to call people "consumers").
I, personally, would love to see an anti-copyright contingent at one of the mayday celebrations.
Here's a couple links for you:
http://www.mayday2k.org [mayday2k.org] - Has a list of which cities have celebrations planned, as well as links to the history of May Day and contact information.
http://mayday.indymedia.org [indymedia.org] - The same autonomous collective that brought you independant coverage of the Seattle and Washington D.C. anti-globalization protests will be helping to cover May Day around the world.
Even if you're not interested in protesting, I'd recommend you check May Day out anyways, since it should be just an all around fun time.
Michael Chisari
mchisari@usa.net
What it means to me (Score:1)
Re:Just drive over, or need folks move? (Score:1)
Re:Rome wasn't burned in a day (Score:2)
True.
they need software for many reasons.
True.
This means there has to be a local software industry to supply their local specific needs.
How does that follow? I don't use software from "a local software industry". I use Free Software.
But even that is beside the point. You are saying that "the US software industry will not decline because it is currently making so much money". Terrible, terrible logic. At one point railroads made a lot of money too--have they declined? What about car makers? Computer hardware, for crying out loud.
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Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Re:Pranks? (Score:1)
Re:Before you condemn, RTFB (Score:5)
Under UCITA, this practice is outlawed on home computers by our consumer protection laws and is heavily restricted in the commercial market.
As the article points out, you're only a "consumer" if it's for personal use and explicitly *excludes* commercial/professional users.
Read the article for more little nasties that slipped past the MD legislature.
Quote it for me (Score:1)
I know the word "Iowa" appears in the blurb. My point is "why have we only heard about states that support UCITA and nothing about those opposed". And why, when it is mentioned, is it only in passing?
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Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:1)
Just curious: JHU?
UTCIA Good for Business (Score:1)
Re:But is it legal? (Score:1)
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:1)
Trust me, Maryland has very little in the way of software at all. Yeah, a few companies here and there (same as anywhere else), but the big software states are California and Texas (with probably Washington and Oregon trailing them, after that I'm not sure (Illinois maybe?)).
Re:It's the law.... (Score:1)
If the law is unjust, the right thing to do is break the law.
Re:Fight Fire with ... Water! (Score:1)
I think it would be less painful, on the whole, to stop state legislatures from passing UCITA before users have to buy UCITA protected software.
Re:What software is UCITA "branded" exactly? (Score:1)
Maryland going soft on Micro$oft as well (Score:1)
"By Friday afternoon [today], state officials had laid varying plans to present their opinions. Attorney General Tom Miller of Iowa, who has spoken throughout the case on behalf of several states and who advocates breaking up the company, scheduled a 5:15 p.m. EDT news conference. Meanwhile, Attorney General J. Joseph Curran Jr. of Maryland, who has publicly expressed doubts about breaking up the company, planned to discuss a separate opinion around 5 p.m. EDT."
Get A Clue (Score:2)
The Maryland UCITA bill incorporates virtually every good suggestion made by consumer advocacy groups, so much so, in fact, that I hope that every state passes a law like theirs.BR>
Slashdotters still have their panties in a wad about boycotting UCITA software, or in extreme cases just blatantly pirating it.
Hmmm...is it just me, or does no one here ever read other posts anymore before giving out their half-assed opinions? I'm wondering if half the people calling for a boycott even know what UCITA's effects are, other than their "online w4r3z BuDd13z" saying it's the spawn of Satan.
Before anyone else passes judgement, why don't you find out what Virginia's actual UCITA text is, so at least you can make a judgement that's not completely ignorant.
telnet://bbs.ufies.org
Trade Wars Lives
Re:Before you condemn, RTFB (Score:2)
In addition to his quotes from the second article, I'd like to add:
- The law approved by both houses, however, contains mostly cosmetic changes while leaving all the dangerous stuff untouched
The article goes on to detail the dangerous stuff left in Maryland's UCITA...--
Dealing with the crooks in Annapolis.... (Score:3)
...on a regular enough basis over the last 14 years, I know that legistlation follows the cash in this state. Delegate Kumar Barve isn't fooling anyone who happens to have dealt with legislators on topics dealing with childbirth choice and other matters where personal rights have been trampled into the mud by powerful special interests.
UTICA is going to screw over the people of Maryland and frankly, I'll join the boycott. Someone put up the website with the software list. I'll tell my family what not to buy and start raising awareness so that we can vote the schmucks out of office.
UTICA can't limit my right to free speech, nor can it prevent me from voting for sensible representatives in November. At least not until the morons in Annapolis make amendments to regulate -that- too.
Re:Not soon enough! (Score:2)
int WinMain(HINSTANCE i, HINSTANCE p, BSTR foo, int bar){
MessageBox(NULL, "Screw UTICA", "Message", MB_OK);
}
I did this in approximately 30 seconds. Using the win32 api. In a slashdot comment box. GUI programs arn't *that* complex, especially since many of them are simply front ends/glue programs for already-existing command-line programs (Linux) or ActiveX Crapjects (Windows). If you already have the basic program made, writing a GUI for it is nearly trivial.
Re:UCITA won't last. (Score:2)
And why not? UCITA gives a large stick to the big software companies, but nothing says they have to use it all the time.
The normal rules of the market still apply: a company that fucks over its customers will soon find out that it has no customers. Obviously, the software companies will not go around switching off their product right and left -- they still want to sell it, right?
UCITA does change the balance of power between producers and consumers of software, but this change in the balance does not automatically mean that all consumers will be nailed to the cross as soon as it passes.
Kaa
Re:civil disobedience (Score:2)
Demand the money back...in full.
And, go to the store...demand them to open the box so you can read the licence.
If you or I don't buy software....no one will care. But if Compusa and Best Buy stop buying software....then software makers WILL care.
Um, what? (Score:2)
For one, the Maryland UCITA only has protections for consumers. Which means that I, as a business user, am screwed. Now, I'm sure that lots of you folks don't care about business users (what with us being the spawn of Satan and all that), but we do pay your salaries. If we get screwed, we're taking you down with us.
Second, a goodly portion of the Maryland UCITA protections hinge on the flaky definition of "mass-market". Now, what the heck is that? Some legal folks have said that, possibly, no transaction conducted over the Internet would qualify as "mass-market" for the purposes of UCITA.
Certainly it's not the end of the world. But just because you saw protections in the Maryland UCITA, that doesn't mean that those protections will actually protect you in any way.
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
In Virginia its easy. Tell your state rep that you are voting against them in the future because of their bonehead vote. No research is necessary, every one of the critters woted for ucita. Consider supporting, working for etc their opponents.
In Maryland its a little more complicated. A number, not large enough voted against it. If you are lucky enough to have one of these fine people, tell them how much you appreciate their vote against ucita, and that you will support them in the future. Consider joining their next campagin, giving it $$, etc.
If you have a rep who voted for them, let them know you will no longer vote for or support them. And consider working for their opponents in the nexe election.
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
We're also looking for a few good sysadmins, a few good network engineers, and more bandwidth!
Move your startup to Iowa City! We'll be waiting with open DS-3s.
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1 Billion Dollars (Score:3)
What is more likely is that vendors will include backdoors and time bombs for anti-piracy or other purposes. Should a customer discover that the remote disabling capability is there -- perhaps after suffering a disaster due to it being triggered accidentally -- UCITA protects the vendor from liability.
If this is true I am going to write a small shareware program and at end of the 10 day trail it will demand 1 BILLION DOLLARS and if it is not paid it will "lock" the user from their computer and dial up to a sex chat line in Brazil for $12398.75 per minute to their phone line (convently enough I own the chat line)
But lets think about this (assuming it just isn't FUD) Micro..uh.. Microhard sells a text edtior
user installs text edtior
text editor ask user for serial number
user enters the serial number on the box
text editor says it is the wrong serial number
user learns that they mistyped the serial number (had caps lock on)
To late, text editor deletes entire hard drive and then plays a wav "You Suck user"
user has lost all data and his feelings hurt
judge says "you suck user, that is legal for them to do"
user switches to GNU/Linux
user is happy...
Ahh so this is a good idea after all, we could use more GNU/Linux users in our quest for Total World Domination, so this works quite well.
Re:Upcoming events... (Score:2)
Idiot fucking communist. Why don't you slaughter a few million "counterrevolutionaries" to celebrate May Day?
If you had taken the time to click on any of the links in my
Which means that, according to the communists, I am a "counterrevolutionary." Anarchists like me were slaughtered, imprisoned, or disappeared during almost every communist "revolution."
I take offense to your lame attempt at an insult.
Michael Chisari
mchisari@usa.net
Re:State vs. Using State Laws (Score:2)
One would say that you allowed the law to be passed in your state.
Of course that isn't quite fair either.
Hell no, it wouldn't be. I sure wrote a lot of letters and made a lot of phone calls. You know how you write to a rep, and they send you a form letter back? I replied to those. (Of course, I never heard back after that.)
But as a resident of VA, you're right, I bear responsibility. So I intend to work against it. I like your idea:
I would reccomend a sticker, web bage button and web-ring saying "Proud to be %100 free of UCITA" or something.
That's certainly a step in the right direction -- I'd like to see some tastefully-designed buttons / icons / whatever for various sites.
-Waldo
We all gotta deal with this in our own way (Score:2)
Next time I see him, I intend to discuss UCITA laws (and the anti-consumer behavior of the software giants) and nudge him towards LINUX and open source tools. Not because of the Free Beer (he can afford to buy software), and not because of the stability (he doesn't push his system very hard, and rarely crashes), but because software that makes _all_ source code available to the customer is subjected to peer review and scrutiny. If Red Hat or Debian were to put a "back door" in one of their distros, it would probably be found and posted to places like /. in short order. M$, Apple, and other closed-source companies don't have that kind of accountability (although props to Apple for putting part of OS X out there... not all of what I want to see but a good first step).
I also live near Iowa, and plan on using this news to pressure my legislators (and a certain former pro wrestler in the governor's mansion) to model a similar bomb-shelter law after Iowa's.
So... thank you, Iowa. I might hate driving through your state (nothing to see but corn for miles), but you obviously have some leaders with a Clue.
Trampling on our rights (Score:5)
With all the obvious opposition to laws such as the UCITA and the DMCA so evident in places like Slashdot, it's a wonder to me that people haven't stormed the Washington Mall demanding that their rights cease to be trampled on. Perhaps the reason for it is the same that made the Clinton Impeachment trial so much of a non-issue. America's economy is better than it's ever been, and no law maker wants to take responsibility for a crash by making the wrong decision.
In this case, Maryland wants to keep software companies happy and ensure that their economic success continues even more. Consumers are apathetic to a blatant loss of their rights because they too are blinded by economic boom. Americans have become content with the status quo, and see little reason to protest "business as usual" in their state capitals when everything has so far been working out so well.
The only way the American people will become concerned enough about this and other loss of rights will be for them to lose their contentment and realize what's actually going on. Until then, these grevious errors in our lawmakers' judgement will continue to go relatively unopposed by the general public.
Re:Not soon enough! (Score:2)
Re:Maybe I'll just avoid buying software all toget (Score:2)
Just ask the teen (or his father) who created the decss program. He is a citizen of (and resides in) a country that specifically allows reverse engineering for compatibility by their law. And even then he was arrested, and his equipment confiscated at the behest of a United States corporation, for violation of a United States Law.
Even if the case is eventually dropped, incarceration (for any amount of time), and the disruption of the family livelihood is a BIG EFFECT!
We all should be concerned and active.
Re:Rome wasn't burned in a day (Score:2)
This means there has to be a local software industry to supply their local specific needs.
Very True. I went on vaction to Texas one year and purchased a copy of Microsoft Windows 98 and when I got home (NY) to install it, it didn't work. The reason? I can only conclude this peice of software didn't work because it was made by and for Texas and not NY. Software is that smart and ajusts it's self depending on your location (example, how does it know what time it is when you first install it!!!). Buy local software for your computer and save your self some trouble. The next day, I went to the local computer store and picked up Red Hat Linux 6.2(NY version), install it on my computer without any problems.
Judging from the facts at hand, the only differant was that one was a Texas version and the other was a NY version. Buy from your local state.
Consumer Protection? (Score:2)
The good news is that this merely sets the contractual defaults for shrink-wrap licenses (which have mostly been validated without UCITA). Software companies with some integrity, or at least within some reach of market forces, will opt out of the more harmful defaults. The bad news is, most people don't pay enough attention to the licenses on the theory that we are pretty much stuck with whatever the software companies want to write, and the more draconian the licenses get, the less we care.
The real focus should be education. Small companies and government entities MUST begin paying very close attention to licenses, and ignore the fine print at their peril. Sadly, these over-reaching licenses also tend to encourage a flout-law attitude among society at large. Can't say I'm surprised on either count. We have the best law money can buy! :-)
And yes, this is one of the best things to happen to open source in a long time. They have just vastly increased the cost of using shrink-wrap software. Talk about cost of ownership! Think of all those attorneys getting paid to read these @#$% licenses. Commercial folks should start adhering to one standardized license or another. They choose UCITA (generally, not some states bastardization) and yes, we boycott. Better yet, spend a few minutes scaring your PHB!
I have never been so happy to be in iowa :) (Score:2)
Well, if the 'bomb-shelter' law passes here, I won't have to worry about it. I guess there are some advantages to being in a small state where the legislators actualy give a damn... Its to bad the artical's slashdoted and I won't be able to read exactly what's going on....
No. (Score:2)
No (Score:2)
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
- Iowa Homepage [state.ia.us]
- Moving or starting a business in Iowa [state.ia.us]
- Iowa Department of Economic Development [state.ia.us]
- Iowa Small Business Resource Office [state.ia.us]
- And there's lots more, just look around...
Oh, and feel free to visit Iowa [traveliowa.com] sometime.---
Re:Upcoming events... (Score:5)
I feel that these people have a very small world view. I just don't understand them.
Unfortunately, you're showing to have a very small world view, yourself.
Why corporations? Why a totalitarian, heirarchial organization where all the wealth and power ends up in the hands of the few at the top?
Why not worker-run and worker-owned cooperatives? Why not community initiatives? Why not open source? Corporate involvement in open source software was after-the-fact. People created it first, and then corporations got into it in order to make money.
There's no reason that cablemodem access couldn't be provided by a cooperative or a collective as opposed to a corporation. There's no reason that different collectives and cooperatives around the world couldn't work together towards the common goal of international access. Voluntarily cooperating towards a common goal... Sound familiar?
Another thing to remember is this: I write code for a living. No, I'm not digging ditches or putting up drywall. Am I still a laborer? Yes, I am, and I still care more about other laborers than I do CEO's and stockholders. The working class creates the wealth, the employing class merely consumes it.
And furthermore, a lot of people who are going to be at Chicago May Day are going to be day laborers. You know, guys who make $3.00 an hour to work in fields with pesticides being sprayed on them? Do you think that they shouldn't be fighting for better wages and more rights?
It's very easy for a privileged upper or middle class male to say "find another job!" but for the other 90% of the world, it's not that easy. Go to Haitian sweatshop workers and tell them to "find another job!", or to Guatamalen bean pickers (who picked the beans for your StarbucksTM coffee), or to young Indonesian boys who make soccer balls for Nike. Better yet, go to an inner city, where the average McDonalds gets 12 applicants for each open position, and tell people there to "find another job!" How do you think those people would feel?
Do your best to think outside your own personal sphere of understanding. There's a lot of serious, serious crap going on out there, and to ignore it, and call those who address it as "silly" is, in many ways, an act of criminal negligence.
Michael Chisari
mchisari@usa.net
Re:What about VA/MD residents? (Score:2)
I have and I did. Fat lot of good it did.
>I don't mean to bash you; I just want you to realize that you have to make your state legislators realize that there's a cost associated with UCITA. Perhaps they understand
>the concept of brain drain.
They don't and they won't. After all: I have very strong reasons to stay. My fiance is here, finishing med school. My job - which I love - is here. My friends are here. Staying is part of the plan. I wish I could make them understand without having to uproot. And Iowa? Well, Slipknot is from there, so I guess they think they're a music centre, and now they'll become an Internet centre as well.
Re:I have never been so happy to be in iowa :) (Score:2)
Ditto to delmoi. I like wandering around in this state. And yes, we do have indoor plumbing. Got it last week.
Iowa may seem backwards in the eyes of some but we've got a lot of people in Legislator that realize stiffling business isn't good for the economy. A number of years back they passed a bill stating that businesses would only be taxed on profits they made within Iowa. Sell something to Texas? Tax-Free. Had a real effect on the economy (the city I live in is just booming right now with only 1-2 percent unemployment rates).
If Iowa becomes a 'bomb-shelter', maybe more businesses will drop by. I'll get some corn on the cob ready for them.
Re:Oh and BTW.... (Score:2)
---
Different opinion from you != Crooks (Score:2)
Nevertheless, it is not a valid conclusion that anybody who supports UCITA is either a self-serving megacorp, a moron or a crook. I don't like all the leadership in Annapolis, but I know a fair number of General Assembly members myself, and all the members I know honestly want to do what's best for the constituencies.
You aren't going to get anywhere in trying to win legislators on to your side if you assume that the only reason they disagree with you is because they've been bought out.
Bob Kopp
Re:Upcoming events... (Score:2)
Because it is human nature to have a pecking order.
What proof do you have of this? Because, according to just about the last 20 years of anthropology, humanity existed for the majority of time without "leaders" in the coercive sense, within egalitarian communities. Read some of the anthropologically-based essays of John Zerzan for some more information re: Human Nature.
Some people are good managers, others are good programmers. It's your job to find out what you are good at and like to do.
A good programmer is infinitely more important than a good manager. End of story. The only reason management even exists is because workers are deprived of their ability to work as individuals. By forcing people to work in order to survive, you then need to make sure that people are around to make them do exactly what you want them to. There are hundreds of thousands of worker-owned, worker-run cooperatives in america that do just fine without managers or owners, and instead make decision via consensus or democratic vote (democracy, remember that?)
I would say that those who take the most risks earn the most money. They _SHOULD_ make most of the money.
What if it's not their money to begin with? What if they inhereted it? Furthermore, if you have $1,000,000 to your name, what's the big deal of having to put up $500,000? That's not a sacrifice. When you have nothing to eat, and you have to give up your freedom to work for another person's profit just to survive, *that* is sacrifice.
Do you realize that the CEO payscale to worker payscale ratio in the US is 419:1? Do you honestly think that CEO's are 419 times more important than the people who actually create products?
CEO's and stockholders offset your risk and liability of working for your self.
Liability? Haven't you learned anything from open source software? We don't even have to deal with issues of liability, because we write good software! Why? Because we're not motivated by profit, we're motivated by doing things right. Liability wouldn't even be an issue if people who are motivated by profit weren't cutting corners and lowering wages (thus, encouraging the production of crappier products) in order to make even more profit.
Please don't act as if these people don't work. You know better.
I can spend 16 hours a day writing random numbers on a peice of paper. Yes, it is tiring, and in a way, it is work. But is it productive? No.
Show me one product that a CEO has ever designed or produced in his time as a CEO. Production is the only force that is necessary in an economy. Everything else is administrative bullshit, and all that beauracracy only exists in order to justify the existance of administration itself.
Why do you think Dilbert is so popular?
They _MUST_ do it as a corporation, otherwise everyone that works for the "collective" is liable if they get sued.
It seems to work just fine for REI, Land o' Lakes, Ocean Spray, as well as numerous local cooperatives across America.
Hell, I would quit! Im mean money is money, but I would never allow someone to place my health at risk. They need to organize a union or gather up their things and move to where the jobs are.
What if you're an illegal immigrant after NAFTA screwed your home town over by pushing people off their land, and there were no jobs left, so you came to America. What if speaking out about sexual abuse, low wages, dangerous conditions, etc., will get you shipped back to your home country, where you will probably starve?
I would suggest that the bean pickers, soccer ball makers and sweatshop workers create a union.
Indonesia, Guatamala, Haiti. Mention the word "union" in these countries, and you will probably get tortured, disappeared, or killed. How? Why, by soldiers who were trained [soaw.org] on american soil! Gotta love the capitalist state, no?
McDonalds pays $10/hr here in Nashville, its FAR above minimum wage.
You failed to notice that I didn't mention the payscale of McDonalds (which isn't $10 everywhere, and even if it is, is still far below a living wage of $16/hr), but the availability of jobs. In inner cities, there are no jobs! Which means that people who do have jobs will put up with basically any shit they have to in order to keep the job, because if they speak out, they get fired, and somebody else takes their job, and they're now unemployed.
Criminal negligence for not going to a silly protest that no one will remeber?
Criminal negligence for taking a bullshit, Rush Limbaugh, "blame-the-victim" attitude.
You should be locked up, because you have real convictions about these issues and yet I don't see you going to the inner city to teach these people how to manage their money, or going to these 3rd world contries and show them how to make themseleves economicly viable.
I'm working on an initiative in my community for taking kids out of the drug-filled violence-ridden high school, and starting a system of collective community homeschooling based on the teachings of A.S. Neill and Francisco Ferrer.
I am very soon going to be starting a low income student housing cooperative for the community college students in the area who can't afford the gentrified areas outside of the city.
We are also looking at starting a food cooperative as well
I am also talking with people about setting up a low power radio station in order to broadcast community debates, reports of police brutality, local music, and other local information.
But the main thing is that this paragraph above that you've written has revealed your true position. You feel that somehow these people need to be "made" economically viable. I wonder, have you ever read anything about institutionalized classism and racism in our society? Do you know about people like Amadou Diallo and Brian Deneke? Do you realize how hard it has become for *anybody* to move from one position in the social caste system to another, especially if you're a minority?
Do you realize that the greatest majority of shoplifters are the elderly?
You simply want to get attention for yourself and get on the font page of USA today.
Why, then, do anarchists wear masks at protests, and get very upset if people take our pictures without asking?
Answer: Because media is not what we're after.
Michael Chisari
mchisari@usa.net
Re:Maybe I'll just avoid buying software all toget (Score:2)
Uniform Law == Bad Law (Score:2)
It means death for fractal diversity and therefore calling a halt to evolution.
Also, being born in Iowa, I just wanted to point out that Iowa has been accused of being one of the least "diverse" states in the US. If counted as a separate country it has one of the highest standards of academic excellence in the world(although that holds for most of the northern midwest breadbasket states). Iowa's "lack of diversity" is exactly the sort of thing that is required for fractal diversity to exist.
States Rights keeps "the laboratory of the states" evolving fresh insights into human nature and human potential.
It is possible to increase the popular conception of "diversity" by infecting yourself with the Human Immunodeficiency Virus, so be careful which kind of "diversity" you promote.
Here's the relevant section of the bill (HF 2205). (Score:2)
From the Iowa General Assembly web site: [state.ia.us]
A transaction that is subject to a computer information contract which provides that the contract is to be interpreted pursuant to the laws of a state that has enacted the uniform computer information transactions Act, as proposed by the national conference of commissioners on uniform state laws, or any substantially similar law, is null and void and the contract shall be interpreted pursuant to the laws of this state if at least one party to the contract is a resident or has its principal place of business located in this state.
For purposes of this subsection, a "computer information contract" means a contract that would be governed by the uniform computer information transactions Act or substantially similar law as enacted in the state of residence of the other person to the contract if that state's law were applied to the contract.
GPL is NOT shrinkwrap! Why won't people understand (Score:2)
A program distributed under the GPL gives you additional rights in COPYING that are normally forbidden by copyright law. It lets one distribute a program distributed under the GPL in an unmodified form.
The GPL does not take 'ownership' of any patches. If you patch a GPL program, the patches are yours. What you cannot do is to distribute the patched program. IE: you can license your patches under whatever license you want, but you cannot distribute the PATCHED program (the one that includes code you did NOT write.) without conforming to the terms of the GPL.
If you think about this, this is like an artist who says ``you can take my paintings and do anything you want, except to modify them. If you want to distribute modified copies, you can't remove my name from it and you have to send me $10 and a free sample.'' Here, the artist grants the explicit right to copy, but reserves the right to distribute modified version. This is all under copyright law. UCITA doesn't affect this transaction.
So, the GPL is something [that when applied to source code] grants you additional rights you would not otherwise have had. Shrinkwrap 'contracts', on the other hand, take away rights that are normally granted by law.
UCITA does not alter or affect GPL license in any fashion, other than potentially make it illegal to reverse-engineer code to see if it is illegally including GPL software.
Re:Before you condemn, RTFB (Score:3)
But can you get your money back if you disagree with the license?
The way I read the bill is that nothing changes the status quo in this regard. Sure section 21-109 gives you the 'Right to Return'. However, it doesn't say who has to give the refund. Leaving us exactly where we are now.
Accorcing to Mr. Zellmor of the Maryland Retailers Association, retailers are allowed to set whatever conditions they want as long as their return policy is prominantly displayed. So Best Buy can continue to refuse to offer refunds on any opened software because they put their disclaimer on the back of the receipt.
And Refund Day has shown us what the vendors response will be.
You can see my letter [aufait.net] to Senator Munson for a more detailed explaination of why I feel the 'Right to Return' is illusionary.
On another note, Maryland's version of UCITA allows beta software and software that is given away for free to disclaim warrenties. This means that writers of GPL software can still disclaim warrenties; but vendors of distributions, e.g. Red Har, can not.
Re:Ammend the GPL?? (Score:2)
Even under current law you can use GPL software, even where the GPL is considered invalid. I don't think anyone is going to sue if you follow the GPL on GPL'd software.
Since the GPL grants you additional rights, it should be valid anywhere. Also, I have not heard that UCITA makes licenses which disclaim liability invalid. In fact, I've heard just the opposite, which is one of the reasons it has been touted as so bad for consumers. Individual states may have added such language before passing UCITA, however. I can't imagine the industry coming up with a wet dream legislation like UCITA and not having disclaimer clauses be totally and legally binding.
Anyway, my point still stands, if you want to avoid commercial licenses that restrict over much what you can do with a piece of software, then use only software that the license allows you access to the source code and allows you to use any modifications that you make to the software. If it's not source code, it's not software!
Re:civil disobedience -apologies (Score:2)
Want to work at Transmeta? MicronPC? Hedgefund.net? AT&T?