Man, Seeking New Copy of Windows 7 After Forced Windows 10 Upgrade, Sues Microsoft (bleepingcomputer.com) 357
Catalin Cimpanu, writing for BleepingComputer: An Albuquerque man has sued Microsoft and its CEO -- Satya Nadella -- seeking a fresh copy of Windows 7 or $600 million in damages. According to a civil complaint filed last week on February 14, Frank K. Dickman Jr. of Albuquerque, New Mexico, is suing Microsoft because of a botched forced Windows 10 upgrade. "I own a ASUS 54L laptop computer which has an OEM license for Windows Version 7," Dickman's claim reads. "The computer was upgraded to Windows Version 10 and became non-functional immediately. The upgrade deleted the cached, or backup, version of Windows 7." Dickman says that the laptop's original OEM vendor is "untrustworthy," hence, he cannot obtain a legitimate copy of Windows 7 to downgrade his laptop.
$600 million (Score:5, Insightful)
about 0 chances of winning
Re:$600 million (Score:5, Insightful)
But the second prize is .....
Oh, you're correct.
Re:$600 million (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:$600 million (Score:4)
This makes no sense. He has a Windows 7 key. It came with the laptop. Download the Win7 iso and re-install. Frivolous lawsuits like this are why we can't have nice things.
Re:$600 million (Score:5, Informative)
I may be wrong, but I think once you(r computer on its own) upgrade to Win10, your Win7 key is listed on Microsoft's activation servers as no longer valid. Thus you might install Win7, but you can't activate it.
Re:$600 million (Score:4, Insightful)
OEM Windows keys won't activate a Retail copy of Windows. It'd actually be a hell of a lot easier for him to just use the manufacturer's installer. The OEM version of Windows has a simplified activation procedure, and the last time I had to do an install using it, I didn't even need to type in the key.
Re:$600 million (Score:5, Interesting)
Independent computer stores often have windows disks that will install any retail or OEM version of windows 7, to match the key you have (or found on a junk PC). I've been photographing the key stickers on machines that IT scraps for quite a while.
Re: (Score:2)
OEM Windows keys won't activate a Retail copy of Windows. It'd actually be a hell of a lot easier for him to just use the manufacturer's installer.
Sounds like this particular computer didn't come with restore media -- it had one of those extra hard drive partitions you were supposed to restore from in the event of a Windows issue.
Fat lot of good that does the consumer if the hard drive itself fails.
Re:$600 million (Score:4, Informative)
HP is even more fun with this. they'll let you back up to either a USB stick or a set of CDs ONCE. Then lock you out from ever backing up that partition again.
There are ways around this, but it's still annoying.
Re: $600 million (Score:2)
You're wrong. You can still go back to the previous version.
Re:$600 million (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the thing though, Microsoft gave users plenty of options to not upgrade to the free Windows 10 upgrade. I believe at least a year. PEBKAC.
Microsoft didn't give users plenty of options to not upgrade to the free Windows 10 upgrade. The options that Microsoft gave, especially towards the end of the pre-release period for Win10, were that could upgrade now or later. I had to use a 3rd party application to keep them from forcibly upgrading an old Win7 box of mine whose hardware wasn't up to running Win10. I hear that towards the end, legal threats and general bad PR got them to make a public show of backing off on the "Do you want to upgrade now or later?" push, but I don't remember hearing any reports that they actually got around to having it so you could refuse the upgrade without deliberately blocking several updates among other measures, because they did things like relabel the relevant updates and those updates had their traditional vague descriptions that gave no indication that they would attempt to forcibly upgrade you.
The general theory I remember was that M$ was doing all of this to forcibly inflate the numbers early on for Win10...
Re: (Score:3)
Far more likely fishing for a class action, consider it legal advertising, prior to opening it up. So anyone else want to join in?
Re: (Score:2)
No it wouldn't. At least, not assuming that you downloaded your nice fresh copy of Windows 7 (sans license) free from Microsoft. Microsoft's usage licensing has nothing to do with copyright.
Meanwhile, that license key glued to the case is likely useless for anything other than the motherboard that originally came in that case, since OEM licenses are generally non-transferable to new hardware, though you may luck into a sympathetic license management technician if you call Microsoft.
Re:$600 million (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft disagrees:
https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Same odds as Man Seeking Woman
Re: (Score:2)
Not even had he sued Asus, which would have been the most logical choice.
It's just another attenion whore.
Sorry, sir (Score:5, Funny)
We're fresh out of Windows 7 due to high demand, but we still have lots of copies of Vista hanging around. Would you like one? Two? A baker's dozen?
Buddy? Pal?
Those numbers are all the same up there (Score:5, Interesting)
The angry plaintiff wants a judge to force Microsoft to comply with his request in 30 days or pay up $600 million in damagesâ" albeit the judge may interpret the damages as $6 billion due to a redaction error, as the complaint reads "$6,000,000,000.00 (six hundred million dollars)."
I'd love to know how he came up with either of those numbers as being somehow reasonable. I'm not inclined to defend Microsoft in any situation, but that's a lot of money for a laptop that was bricked by an OS upgrade. There is no mention in there of him losing any data either (or having even checked to see if any data was lost). Yeah it's a massive inconvenience but I have never met anyone who uses an ASUS laptop who will do $600,000,000 worth of work in their lifetimes.
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder if Mark Zuckerberg has ever used an Asus laptop.... /ponder
Re:Those numbers are all the same up there (Score:5, Funny)
I'd love to know how he came up with either of those numbers as being somehow reasonable.
An RIAA lawyer commented to say the math checks out.
Re: (Score:2)
... all the while cruising on Pirate Bay for an updated copy of his favorite porn.
Re: (Score:2)
allow the fsdn.org ones
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Damages in U.S. civil suits are broken down into:
Re: (Score:2)
$600 million is a little high, but doesn't seem like an unreasonable starting point for punitive awards against a company the size of Microsoft.
Are you suggesting then that this is an OK award to pursue against a large company, but not against a small one? What if the product had been BeOS? Or Duke Nukem Forever? Or Big Rigs Over the Road Racing? Those companies are much smaller (or extinct). The award that the plaintiff seeks should have some sort of reflection on the actual damages. If the laptop had burst into flames and burned down his house, I could see a settlement of a few million for the house and all its contents (though proving it
Haven't had your coffee yet? (Score:2)
I'm guessing you hadn't yet had your morning coffee when you read GP and posted that? Let me quote for you the post you replied to:
--
Damages in U.S. civil suits are broken down into two parts:
Compensatory - to compensate the victim for financial losses suffered.
Punitive - to discourage the perpetrator from engaging in improper or illegal activities in the future.
--
"The award that the plaintiff seeks should have some sort of reflection on the actual damages." - that's the first half. If someone causes dama
Re: (Score:2)
"There is no mention in there of him losing any data either (or having even checked to see if any data was lost)"
I mean, right in the fucking summary:
"The upgrade deleted the cached, or backup, version of Windows 7."
DYERTFS?
Re: (Score:3)
"There is no mention in there of him losing any data either (or having even checked to see if any data was lost)"
"The upgrade deleted the cached, or backup, version of Windows 7."
That is his (previous) operating system. He should not have any of his own personal data in the operating system itself. Yeah, he paid for it and should be able to get it back but it's still just his previous OS. Did he lose his tax information, his email, his contacts, or anything else that was his own? There is no shortage of people selling new licenses for Windows 7 on ebay (and many other places), he can replace it if he wants. Did he have data on there though that he forgot to back up that he can
Re: (Score:3)
"That is his (previous) operating system. He should not have any of his own personal data in the operating system itself."
Well, to add to his story, when Win10 got forced on my system, first it put windows 7 stuff in a Windows.old folder...
And on the first fucking reboot (installing the actual sound card drivers instead of using Windows drivers,) Win10 upgraded, and deleted everything in that folder during upgrade. And it doesn't tell you that it's doing so.
And I've been able to get this behavior to repeat
Re: (Score:2)
However that is still very, very different from actual user data and user documents. If it blew away the documents that would be a terrible terrible problem and I would think we would have heard a lot about it from other users by now. Windows user data and user documents are not in C:\Win
Re: (Score:2)
He has 600M worth of bitcoin on it. ... ...
Or his manuscriot for a new movie
Or his book
Or any other work he did with a win95 wordprocessor on a Win7 system and can not access on his new and shiny Win10 system.
Re:Those numbers are all the same up there (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Those numbers are all the same up there (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Just because you haven't met someone who does big-dollar work on their laptop doesn't mean they don't exist. The vast majority of people who do low dollar work on their laptop wouldn't bother to sue, therefore trying to extend your personal experience to this sample domain does not work. Please understand the way statistics work.
Statistics? Oh you mean that thing where humans often take facts and feed them into a process that turns it into their favorite flavor of bullshit?
Yeah, we understand how statistics "work", and extrapolation should only be used when obtaining specific facts are difficult or cost-prohibitive. It's certainly not hard to factually prove if one man's claim is worth $600 million, so "statistics" are irrelevant.
To the parents point, I'd go so far as to challenge any claim that a $600 million dollar laptop exist
Re: (Score:2)
Statistics? Oh you mean that thing where humans often take facts and feed them into a process that turns it into their favorite flavor of bullshit?
Yeah, we understand how statistics "work",
No, you don't.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not the OP, but this is a really easy one to field.
No human has ever done enough work to justify $600,000,000. Even if you could claim that someone created that much wealth, they didn't do it on their own - they did it off the back of hard work of hundreds of other people who will never see a penny of that money, despite earning it for them.
Bill Gates has clearly added $600,000,000 in value toward society. The amount of worldwide jobs, enhancements, competitors, etc... that he helped start. Are you kidding?
Off the backs, seriously, wow; ya Steve Ballmer is super poor. Satya can probably barely feed a family. I heard that Paul Allen is on foodstamps now. Now that I reflect on your post it must be a joke. Microsoft has made thousands of people millionaires; and arguably indirectly created more jobs and raised the standard of living worldwide m
Re: (Score:2)
This one is easy to field only, if you're ignorant about economics and how the real world works.
You seem to start with a number of false, but emotionally-validating assumptions: 1.) No human has ever done enough work to justify $600,000,000." This means you equate work with effort. While loosely related, they are not the same. For example, lots of people put huge effort into producing minimal changes in outcome. There are some rare individuals that can produce big changes in outcome with minimal effort.
Re: (Score:2)
show me one, just fucking one place where your commie/socialist utopia exists; it would also make sense that others would be trying to also get there because it's so fucking awesome, so N Korea doesn't count
how about sending me a link showing a place where there is even close to an equal distribution of wealth at anything
Re:Those numbers are all the same up there (Score:4, Interesting)
So.. Lets say some bloke called Bob starts a company.
He puts $100k of his own money into it, and uses that money to employ people for 10% higher than market rate to create something his new company sells.
Bob takes no salary, just works 80 hour weeks to assure the success of the company. All the time he's making sure suppliers are paid, customers are happy and the staff are receiving 10% above market rate for their time. 100% of the spare cash is reinvested in the company, so it never makes a profit.
Eight years later Big Corporation offer to buy Bob's company from him for $610m. Bob is the sole shareholder and decides this is a fair offer.
You're saying that Bob didn't do enough to warrant $600m? How much was Bob's work worth, and who does the rest of that cash go to?
This blows (Score:2)
It puts Microsoft off implementing my MS Insecticide [slashdot.org] idea.
This is why we need Tort Reform - it would allow megacorps to play amusing practical jokes on people who pirate their stuff and if someone of those people are humiliated or indeed killed, there'd be no lawsuit.
Hero! (Score:3)
Frank K. Dickman Jr. Elementary. Has a nice ring to it
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, a real hero. Just doing a cursory check on his name with other court websites like pacermonitor, or justia, or recap, it looks like your hero is a nuisance filer.
The complaint shows he doesn't even have a lawyer. He's just a pest.
Multiple issues here that you see all the time (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Make a set of Recovery CD's
2. Verify you have a good Windows 7 product key on the label stuck to the laptop.
3. If no label with a product key, checked the Control Panel->System to get it.
4. Note to everyone who gets a new windows computer. Make Recovery CD's, record your product key, put everything that came with the computer in a box or manila envelope and file it away. You will need it at some point
You can still get OEM copies of Windows 7 Pro on ebay with product key.
Re:Multiple issues here that you see all the time (Score:5, Insightful)
Why in the world should have to do all of those things to ensure continuous access to something I legally purchased? If I need more than a license key, there is something majorly wrong with that product.
Re: (Score:2)
Why in the world should have to do all of those things to ensure continuous access to something I legally purchased?
You seem to value your freedom and rights as an owner. So... you use Linux, right?
Re: (Score:2)
Additional note: consider using rewriteable discs, as their phase-changing crystal medium is far more stable than the organic dye used in write-once discs.
I've lost way too much data to CD/DVD "bit rot" over the years. Multiple copies help, but write-once discs just have lousy shelf lives.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Yea, no. I've got physical folders and folders of CDs and DVDs from a couple+ decades ago. All of them in quite pristine condition.
Learn to get archival-quality WORM media and you generally have no issues.
Meanwhile, you need to hope that your backup ISO copies don't get corrupted, malware-infested, etc. Have fun!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I would consider using different forms of media. M-Disc media comes to mind as one way, cloud storage with multiple providers another way, and a USB flesh drive using a bit-rot resistant filesystem (btrfs, ReFS, APFS) to at least know if the ISO got damaged during storage. I would say that storing copies different places is more useful than finding the perfect media for long term storage.
It also doesn't hurt to have a SHA-512 hash manifest of the files as well when stored, or even GPG signatures. That wa
Re: (Score:3)
Best of all is to also Clonezilla image the laptop before ever booting Windows, and save the image, as well as the W7 image media somewhere secure (Amazon Glacier, Wasabi Cloud, Backblaze B2). Make sure the product key or keys are saved with the files as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, I should have used the word moot ! mute.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Wait, what? (Score:3)
root for the underdog (Score:2)
does anyone think MS won't use everything they have to their own advantage?
when you go up against Goliath and you're small, do you don armor and shield and hope it all works out? or maybe try a tactic that increases your chance for success?
standing up for himself, I
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
and out of curiosity, how much does one have to be 'inconvenienced' before it rises to a level where pushing back is acceptable? do you have a monetary limit? perhaps time? what if he values his own time and money more than you? should he first get your permission?
Funny... (Score:2)
I love the way he says "the original OEM vendor is untrustworthy"... Umm.. Does he think that.. magically.. MS *is* trustworthy???? Geez I HOPE not.. MS deserves to get its collective ass kicked HARD for the nasty malware-style way it forced 10 onto systems, BUT this guy will NEVER get anywhere close to the figure he asks for... He's gonna be lucky to get a copy of Win7 out of the suit...
Based on these numbers (Score:2)
The Three Rules of Computing (Score:2, Informative)
Rule 2: BACKUP
Rule 3: See Rules 1 & 2
So, when did your data become important to you, before or after you lost it?
If he had anything important and didn't have it backed up, he's an idiot.
There's no way his damages come anywhere near $600 million, unless he's utterly incompetent, in which case, he deserves to lose it.
The unreliability of his OEM isn't Microsofts fault.
Most computer OEMs don't provide disks for you for the installed software. Instead they use a legal loophole and when you fir
Re: (Score:3)
Re:The Three Rules of Computing (Score:5, Interesting)
"No company is going to support the old stuff forever, not even Microsoft, nor should anyone expect them too."
He's not asking for support. If I sell you a TV and destroy it five years later, can I legitimately say I destroyed it because "I can't support the TV forever".
Re: (Score:2)
The unreliability of his OEM isn't Microsofts fault.
Microsoft licenses the OEM to ship their products. They are responsible for finding reliable OEMs or supporting the products they produce directly.
I saw a college classmate go through this hell. He upgraded the Windows OS on his laptop and he had driver problems. As I recall the sound stopped working and the video was flaky. So he calls the people that made his laptop. He's told that they aren't responsible, talk to the chip makers for the video and sound chips. So he contacts the people that made the
The New Model (Score:2)
" get people to take up that offer to buy the latest Microsoft OS."
The problem is that MS doesn't really want to sell their software. What they want to sell is user metrics and their software as a service. Their real money made is enterprise service contracts, they're moving home users to the model (and most don't even realize it).
Man too stupid to download a file... (Score:2)
Aside from the absurdity of his claim, he could just get a Windows 7 ISO from here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-g... [microsoft.com]
I found the COA (Score:3)
My experience (Score:3)
re-installing Windows 7 using a regular install DVD and an OEM key is that the online validation never works. You have to use the phone validation. It is tedious, but always works.
Re: (Score:3)
Prevention (Score:2)
The laptop prompted him to do so, the user manual told him to do so...
Free
Of course, no one ever does. And then whines when the drive dies, taking the reset partition and OS with it.
Anybody can sue anyone (Score:2)
Don't see why this is worthy to be posted here.
Using these numbers (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You can say that twice!
"Non-functional" (Score:2)
The installer keeps the old Windows 7 install backed up locally so it can be restored if there's a problem with the upgrade. AFAIK there are only a few cases where it is removed::
1. You run Disk Cleanup inside of the upgraded Windows and remove the data.
2.. After some period of time the backup is removed as it is presumed the upgrade is working for the you, as you have not tried to restore the backup but have been using the upgraded PC.
3. You reinstall Windows 10, whereupon it, again, backs up your current
The upgrade does not delete Windows 7 (Score:2)
Nice try, but the upgrade does not delete the Windows 7 installation.
you only need a install disk (Score:2)
Downlaod the ISO and go to town... (Score:2)
1. Download the Windows 7 ISO (https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows7)
2. Install using the license key that's on the sticker on the bottom of your system.
3. Profit!
Re: He wanted to lose. Now he doesn't like losing? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sometimes it is necessary if you work with software development. Practically essential to have Windows development experience with Visual Studio. But Microsoft have have even withdrawn their old ISO files for Windows 7/8 and 10 so the only option is Window Creator edition (December 2017). I tried installing this on VirtualBox, but it just locked up. So I've resorted to using a Windows 10 Pro ISO file I downloaded a long time ago. That's the catch now - I either use an old version that may have security risk
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, it's a hugely dick move by Microsoft, but all users know they are opting into an unusually weird set of nasty dick moves, whenever they buy anything that has Microsoft software.
It's the American way: If someone is being a dick to you, be a bigger dick to them. Bonus points if done in a way that gets you 15 minutes of fame and makes lawyers rich.
Re: (Score:2)
I wish the U.S. had a functional government. Microsoft is EXTRAORDINARILY ABUSIVE, in my opinion, and nothing has been done to stop the abuse.
People have voted for Microsoft with their wallets. Caveat emptor.
Re:He wanted to lose. Now he doesn't like losing? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, you joke, but we haven't bought a new Windows machine since 7 was no longer available, and we're now using non-Windows platforms for our new machines instead of going anywhere near Windows 10. So for us, it literally is the year of Linux on the desktop. Turns out that for development work it's probably better anyway, and for all the online stuff a browser or email client on Linux is kinda like a browser or email client on Windows.
Re: (Score:3)
Ditto. No Windows 10 in my house. Windows 10 made me a user of Linux on the Desktop.
Re: (Score:3)
Why is Linux only a viable alternative for you, now?
Short version: Far more important things (for us) are now either online or client-server, and far less important things (for us) rely on native applications that are only available on the Windows platform. For those that remain, we stocked up on Windows 7 machines while we still could.
Bonus answer: Linux's hardware support and ease of configuration more generally are in a different league today to where they were 10 years ago. For example, we can buy a laptop pre-installed with Linux today and have a reason
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Instead of being an asshat and asking why someone is late, maybe celebrate they arrived at all.
You are the reason why people hate linux zealots.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Just came here to post this... Tested it with the OEM key from the bottom of a customers Asus laptop first, worked fine.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, it does. I tested it before posting my reply.
Re:Just download it, dummy (Score:5, Insightful)
OK, so to reply to myself and completely contradict myself I just tested it with another OEM key and it didn't work... Curious...
Re: (Score:2)
That's because there are several different levels of OEM key that Microsoft sells, but you can pretty much group them into Volume and Non-Volume.
Volume level keys will work. Non-volume keys will not.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Guy seems... (Score:5, Insightful)
And the forced Win 10 upgrade is not a dick move?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Guy seems... (Score:4, Informative)
I think his point is: Don't treat me like a piece of shit and force an update on me that wastes my time, causes me lost productivity and then refuse to correct the issue.
MS acted in an arrogant manner, his lawsuit is trying to address their respect of care for their users.
Asking MS to fork out for a new laptop, licence, etc is not going to cause them any grief and is pointless.
$600 million on the other hand may make them look and listen.
I don't for a second think he is claiming he suffered $600 million in damages, but he wants the amount to be enough for MS to give a shit.
Re: (Score:3)
This awful example of litigious american society is showing a sincere lack of respect for the company of microsoft on the part of the plaintiff. If he cares so little for them so as to sue them, why not just pirate the software?
Ah, so steal to save time? Gee, there's sound logic for you. I'll remember that when I'm shoplifting. I mean, why waste time at a register. You slowpokes better get out of my way on the freeway too. Speed limits are for time wasters, I'll be doing 130MPH in the time-saving lane.
Why is everyone so keen on wasting everyone else's time?
If everyone was actually keen on saving time, the time-warping mind-suck known as social media, wouldn't exist.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Mod parent up !!!