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White House Outsources K-12 CS Education To Infosys Charity 88

Posted by timothy from the perhaps-someone-besides-mama-cass-is-getting-fat dept.
theodp writes: In December, the White House praised the leadership of Code.org for their efforts to get more computer science into K-12 schools, which were bankrolled by $20 million in philanthropic contributions from the likes of Google, Microsoft, Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, and Mark Zuckerberg. On Monday, it was announced that Infosys Foundation USA will be partnering with Code.org to bring CS education to millions of U.S. students. Infosys Foundation USA Chair Vandana Sikka, who joins execs from Microsoft, Google, and Amazon execs on Code.org's Board, is the spouse of Infosys CEO Vishal Sikka. The announcement from the tax-deductible charity comes as India-based Infosys finds itself scrutinized by U.S. Senators over allegations of H-1B visa program abuses.
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White House Outsources K-12 CS Education To Infosys Charity More

White House Outsources K-12 CS Education To Infosys Charity

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  • Typical (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Tone deaf politicians.

  • Ironic that the teachers will the one's taking your job.

  • Free Markets 101 (Score:1, Insightful)

    by jalfreize ( 173125 )

    The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.
    I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.
    Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

    • Re:Free Markets 101 (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30, 2015 @08:54AM (#49585083)

      The only thing US workers can't compete on in price. In quality we're lightyears ahead of the average H1-B. IT "staff" actually grow in size when you H1-B in most cases because you need more people to do the same job. They still cost less though because you can pay them dirt and not have to worry about benefits.

    • Re: Free Markets 101 (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 30, 2015 @08:55AM (#49585089)

      There is no free market. Companies want free markets to drive wages down but they want protection for their products. Capital can move easily, labor cannot. If by 'can't compete' you mean 'can't live on a couple of dollars per day' then yes, the US economy doesn't work like that.

      As to skills, people in other countries run about the same distribution of really smart and total idiots as anywhere else all other things being equal. However, rampant cheating and resume inflating are accepted in certain cultures, accepted by certain outsourcing companies, and that results in a supply of labor that ought not be in the market at all.

      One free market principle is that participants have access to accurate information, and of course corporations go to great lengths to make sure you don't.

    • Re:Free Markets 101 (Score:4, Insightful)

      by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Thursday April 30, 2015 @08:58AM (#49585115) Journal

      Maybe IT workers aren't all dumb enough to worship the free market?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's not insecurity about skills at all. In fact, they often have far superior skills and abilities. The problem is price. I'm not personally willing to spend 80-90 hours a week programming at $24,000 per year with no benefits. My skills and abilities are worth far more than that. The problem is, companies will often move to the lowest bidder in an effort to cut costs wherever they can without paying mind to the drop in quality as a direct result. Companies that do this often nearly always regret their deci

      • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        By law, H1-B's earn at least $60K.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Not true ... In the train I bump into many IT H1-B's and one of them was a Sr. Java Arch with over 10+ years of work based experience. If not on H1-B would be making about $130~150k but he was make $32k of course the company billing was an entirely different story.

          • I call BS on that. Either the person was not on an H1B (could have been on L1, which I believe means he is an intra-company transfer paid according to the rates of his home country), or he was pulling your leg, or you are just plain lying. I was on an H1B visa a few years ago for a couple of years, having been hired out of grad school, and got paid 6 figures after being wooed by several companies.

        • By law, H1-B's earn at least $60K.

          By law, H1-Bs can only come for jobs that cannot be filled with the local work force. By law, they cannot replace working locals. But shit, guess what happens? Do you think H1-B visa holders are actually compensated fairly by Infosys and the like?

          I have a bridge to sell, and a bottle of snake oil to boot. Let me know if you are interested.

    • Re:Free Markets 101 (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Dr J. keeps the nerd ( 1061562 ) on Thursday April 30, 2015 @09:08AM (#49585187)
      A "free market" for labour would mean immigration, not temporary work visas with strict conditions. H1-Bs shift power from labour to management. Management is not asking for an immigration fast-path for highly skilled professionals -- they are asking for temporary permits. H1-B workers, while obviously benefitting from the program, are not seeing the kind of benefit they would if they could immigrate and if they could be hired permanently and progress in their careers in the US. The economy as a whole benefits much less from H1-Bs than it does from skilled immigration. H1-B holders who subsequently start new enterprises aren't doing so in America.

      I realize that some H1-B workers are able subsequently to immigrate, but it's a separate route and it's not the program's intention. It's good to have a program that lets highly specialized advisors in -- it ensures knowledge and skills transfer from the broader world, but H1-B is not primarily used for that. The program would have more value if it had higher standards for quality, not larger quantity. As it stands, it's simply an attack on labour, one that cloaks itself in the language of freedom and immigration while providing neither.
      • THANK YOU. The problem with the immigration is that there are less Green Card given out then H1B Visas. So it's disingenuous to say H1B Visas provide any path to citizenship. It's nothing more than another way to outsource without sending the jobs overseas.
      • Different constituencies in America want different things that are incompatible. Hard core right wingers want no more immigration (i.e., green cards) or want to cut it drastically, especially for non-white people. To them, the idea of foreigners working a few years and going back is a bug, not a feature. Engineers who are not in the hard core right-wing camp would prefer exactly the opposite. More green cards and an end to the guest worker concept that they feel undercuts the labor market (they are partly
        • Typo in the second sentence. It should say: To them, the idea of foreigners working a few years and going back is a feature, not a bug.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The free market ends at the national border. You're talking about globalism, and globalism has done nothing but harm to the wages in the US. So yes, we are entitled to a monopoly on jobs, because we live here.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.
      I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.
      Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

      Why won't India allow Walmart to open stores in India?

      • The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs. I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply. Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

        Why won't India allow Walmart to open stores in India?

        Stop trying to make sense to these sock puppets. It is like trying to teach math to a coconut.

    • Americans have this crazy idea that their government exists to benefit their own people. It has zippo to do with free markets. In fact, it screws with free markets to allow a race to the bottom. Americans are disadvantaged. We're not looking for a country that has a standard of living that a Pakistani bricklayer would consider decent. We'd move to other countries if that was the case.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.
      I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.
      Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

      Because we're singled out.

      There's no H1B equivalent for doctors or lawyers or HVAC techs of college professors. Just programmers.

      It's primarily because we're not organized. Grant 50,000 work visas for teachers and see what the unions do about it.

    • I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.

      The H1-B program is not a free market. It should be scrapped, and replaced with a much broader immigration program for skilled foreigners, with a clear path to citizenship. Then the immigrants can compete on a fair and level playing field, change employers at will, and have all the same workplace rights and protections as citizens. Competition is fine. A two-tiered labor force is not.

    • H1-Bs are an end-run around the local labor market. Corporations want the benefit of the comfort and infrastructure the US provides, but don't want to pay the natural market labor costs for highly-skilled developers native to the US.

      Free market capitalism works pretty well in many cases, but there are always necessary constraints and conditions. For instance, the free market breaks down when corporations get too large and powerful. Thus, anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws. The free market is notoriously

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Why is India unable to compete in the global market. Make it on your own then talk to us. FYI every industrialized country has restrictions on foreign labor, something you would know if you bothered to research. Another product of the Indian school system where students feel entitled to cheat.

    • Because we've seen the work of those H1-B workers. Somehow, companies keep hiring them even though it's clear to most of us that they are NOT getting their money's worth. The issue is exacerbated by the fact that much of those salaries are being sent somewhere else, instead of being spent at home, so other businesses suffer, too.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      But not all the variables are under our control. The cost of living is lower in many other countries in part because they have de-facto slaves, for example. Somebody else can take my job but I cannot do the equivalent and just move to live in a slaved up country so that I have a maid etc.

      Visa workers come here, work long isolated hours for 5 years, and then retire back home as a rich person because their cost of living is so much lower. They have options I don't. It's not a "free" market because the flow o

      • I cannot do the equivalent and just move to live in a slaved up country so that I have a maid etc.

        Why not?

        Visa workers come here, work long isolated hours for 5 years, and then retire back home as a rich person because their cost of living is so much lower. They have options I don't.

        Really, there's very little preventing you from amassing your fortune here in America, then moving to a developing country where you can buy a mansion, staff, and decent security (which you will likely want) for a few thousand dollars a year. For a few thousand more dollars, you can buy yourself the favor of the local population, by honoring the local leadership, building infrastructure, and/or investing in local businesses. Be a guest at weddings, and offer lavish $20 gifts. Visit the local bars, a

    • You Don't Know What You Are Talking About (Score:4, Insightful)

      by luis_a_espinal ( 1810296 ) on Thursday April 30, 2015 @10:55AM (#49586435)

      The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world

      Let me stop you right there from continuing with this stupid-as-shit line of thinking. Certain interest groups in the US preach free markets to the world. That doesn't imply "The US preaches free markets" or whatever shit else these interest groups try to peddle.

      , yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.

      Like almost anywhere else. You don't see engineering in general (and IT in particular) being offshored en-mass in, say, Japan and Germany, do you? I've never been in Germany, but I have been in Japan. So I can claim with some certainty that what I'm saying here holds.

      There is also the rule of the law. The law says that H1-B visas are for jobs where companies have a hard time filling in with local talent (be them US workers, or foreign workers with a permanent residence status.)

      It is not a replacement of US citizens and legal residents with temporary visa workers to lower costs. That is a violation of the law. In any other country, that would warrant an immediate investigation by a department of labor. Not here, and that is stupid.

      And people thinking that we should not investigate (when every other country would), those people are either stupid, obtuse or disingenuous.

      I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.

      And it is... within the definintion/demarcation of an economy. Any nation that does not treat its economy as a national asset of strategic value is an stupid nation that deserves whatever gets coming.

      Look at China, India, Japan, Germany, and so on. They all have specific protections in place according to whatever they consider strategic or vital.

      It is only in the US that private enterprises (and politicians in their pockets) who do not think that way. As long as profit is made, the nation as a whole can go screw itself.

      Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

      Do you understand the meaning of "begging the question"?

      There is no competition when locals are being replaced without even giving a chance to compete, being replaced completely and unilaterally with cheaper labor in contradiction of what the law says.

      And this just doesn't affect US citizens. It also affects legal residences. I've seen with my own eyes India workers with permanent resident status getting replaced with H1-B visas. So it is not just a question of talent and competition. It is a disingenuous violation of the law.

      Not only that, the H1-B abuse is heavily slanted towards India workers and consulting firms? Why?

      If we are going to get inundated and replaced by H1-B workers, let them be more diverse, from Russia, China, Africa, and LATAM, not just India. This is the biggest problem I have with abuses of the H1-B program. It artificially skews one of most profitable segments of our economy towards a specific foreign nationality.

      The country as it is has a history of racial segmentation. There is no need to make that problem even worse.

    • you're indian, right?

      lets turn it around and see how you like it. suppose the shoe was on the other foot and your country was allowing 'cheap foreign labor' to enter the country and take jobs from locals. I know, its laughable - your country can't even give reliable electricity or sanitation to most of its citizens, but lets suppose you were the tech advanced country and we were the third world.

      you study for years, you pay your dues and you are invested in your country. you want to grow old there and liv

  • The use of information technology in areas of language, mathematics, science is fundamental to the way problems are approached in the real world and should be integrated into the curriculum in all subject areas.

    • The use of information technology in areas of language, mathematics, science is fundamental to the way problems are approached in the real world and should be integrated into the curriculum in all subject areas.

      Good point. When I was in high school (1980s) we weren't required to learn how to use a slide rule (although I owned one because nerd). Maybe now we shouldn't teach calculator and instead integrate Matlab or Mathematica into the learning process? A CS course should teach fundamentals, not functional programming or other highly abstracted languages. But applying computers as a tool to solve problems is an entirely different animal these days.

      • However, the course they are advocating and providing are programming courses NOT computer science courses. That's the problem. Not too mention C.S. not fundamental course. Math yes, Computer Science, no.
  • The White House cannot outsource what it doesn't do. Education is under the sovereign authority of the various States, not the White House or any branch of the Federal government. The only influence the Federal government has regarding education comes from attaching strings to grant money.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tomhath ( 637240 )

      Are you serious or just trolling?

      The US Department of Education [ed.gov] is part of the executive branch of the Federal government with a very big budget.

      • I am serious.

        The presence of a Department of Education does not mean the Federal Government runs the education system. Public Health, Safety (police), and Education are the sovereign domain of the States.

        The Federal government can only attach conditions to grant money offered to the States. What those conditions can be are extremely limited, and States are not obligated to take the money. What is being described in the article is well outside the limits for the conditions. Obama is just declaring h

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by OhPlz ( 168413 )

      Much of what the federal government does is attaching strings to money, money taken under the threat of force from the residents of those states. Minimum drinking age is one example. If the states refuses, which is its right, no federal highway funds. The feds already took the money from the incomes of the people of the state, which means the state has to make a lot of money magically appear, or relent to the fed's unlawful edicts. Guess which option wins?

      • There are also serious limits on those strings, particularly on how specific they can be. The Federal government can't, for example, set requirements for curricula, let alone require specific courses or require using particular contractors.

  • If you did you would see that this is partnership with InfoSys Foundation. InfoSys is actually donating millions to be part of this non-profit effort. Secondly, they're helping Code.Org and not leading the effort.

    With this announcement, Infosys Foundation USA becomes a Platinum-level sponsor of Code.org, providing not only financial support but also resources and extensive experience in computer science education.

    The Chairperson of Infosys Foundation USA, Vandana Sikka, has been appointed to the Code.org

  • Should have outsourced to Disney (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ShaunC ( 203807 ) on Thursday April 30, 2015 @11:23AM (#49586759)

    If this is such a pressing issue, they need to start turning some of the Disney stars into developers (whoops, sorry, I mean "coders," that's the trending buzz word).

    All these people [wikia.com] should have their own prime time shows about the exciting life of a software developer. The basics of CLIs and text editors on multiple operating systems. How to use version control. How to write unit tests and pass continuous integration. How to help QA your own dog food. How to diplomatically interface with folks in other departments. How to write documentation. How to triage trouble tickets. How to train your own replacement [slashdot.org].

    Oh, wait! None of that's sexy. Kids wouldn't tune in to shows like that because it isn't what most of them want to do, any more than most kids wanted to do in decades past. The ones who really are interested in development will pursue this path on their own, as many of us did. We don't and won't have any lack of competent workers, because some percentage of us will always be nerds who love this stuff. We do have a surplus of companies who want to save every last penny by farming jobs out to H-1Bs, and we do have a corresponding surplus of unemployed competent Americans.

    We're at a point where entry-level tech support jobs are routinely requiring a bachelor's degree or foreign equivalent, junior analyst jobs are requiring an MBA or foreign equivalent, etc. Companies are quick to complain that there are no qualified local workers, because they can't find an American with a four-year degree who knows Linux + Solaris + J2EE + Servlets + IIS + SAP + Oracle + 10 years with Sharepoint, and is willing to work 70 hours a week for $35,000 per year. Meanwhile they have a guy from Bangalore whose resume claims he does precisely all of that, and maybe they won't check out all of his qualifications if he's willing to share a room at Extended Stay America with 5 of his peers for a year or two, wink wink nod nod.

    The market is already saturated, and will be for some years to come. Where's the federal push to create more tradesmen (plumbers, electricians, mechanics, carpenters)? To create more lawyers, or accountants, or any other career path? I'm growing weary of this idea that every child in America must be a developer^Wcoder. It serves no purpose but to suppress salaries across the board and even further encourage the H-1B loophole.

  • It's still easier (cheaper) to go with a hiring company that hires H1Bs, so a lot of HR departments will go with that option (even if it costs them more in the long run.) There's also the issue with tech companies looking for unicorns instead of being willing to train people. It becomes an excuse to go after H1Bs who will in essence be indentured servants. The real issue here is corporate greed and HR stupidity.

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