How MOOC Faculty Exploit People's Desire To Learn 115
RichDiesal writes "Just as businesses try to make something off of massively online open courses (MOOCs), so do the faculty running them. But instead of seeking money, MOOC faculty seek something far more valuable: a cheap source of data for social science research. Unfortunately, the rights of research participants are sometimes ignored in MOOCs, and successful completion of courses are sometimes held hostage in exchange for mandatory participation in research, as in this case study of a Coursera MOOC. Such behavior is not tolerated in "real" college courses, so why is it tolerated in MOOCs taught by the same faculty?"
Sounds . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
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Likely this same person also has a facebook account, giving up information in exchange for not being charged money to use the site.
Even more likely, he visits a specialized readership profiled site on the internet and pays by his eyeballs and content!
Re:Sounds . . . (Score:4, Informative)
Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind
He writes and sells books - http://www.amazon.com/Step-Step-Introduction-Statistics-Business/dp/1446208214
MOOC's bypass the need for the books he sells.
No, they don't (Score:1)
Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind
He writes and sells books - http://www.amazon.com/Step-Step-Introduction-Statistics-Business/dp/1446208214
MOOC's bypass the need for the books he sells.
Most MOOCs I've taken had a suggested reading list and many of the books are ones like his.
In other words, MOOCs are an AWESOME way for promoting your book.
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He writes and sells books - http://www.amazon.com/Step-Step-Introduction-Statistics-Business/dp/1446208214 [amazon.com]
The price seems insanely high for a 400 page 10x7 paperback book on basic statistics...
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Re:Sounds . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Well you can't expect to get by with just learning about standard deviation. You need to upgrade to enterprise deviation if you're going to get anywhere in business.
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Nor can you expect C-level execs to limit themselves to just the standard deviations. Some have more exotic tastes.
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Well you can't expect to get by with just learning about standard deviation. You need to upgrade to enterprise deviation if you're going to get anywhere in business.
Dang... what edition is needed to add the discussion of the Central limit theorem, the Kelly criterion, Baye's law?
Will another upgrade be required to add Probability distribution, the Monty hall paradox, the Birthday paradox, the accuracy paradox, Benford's law, Zipf's law, Regression towards the mean, the law of truly large numbers, Y
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No no, I think it brings up an excellent point. (Okay maybe he does have an axe to grind, but does that excuse what's actually going on?)
In a recent meandering about the nuances about cell phone plans, in an attempt to find the best one for the lowest cost, I came across fine print details about tethering. Pretty much all prepaid services (Net10, Straight Talk, Aio, iWireless, etc.) forbid tethering your cell phone to any other device. Which is... Well absurd when you think about it.
But it's somehow lega
data caps / use are about no tethering (Score:2)
the cheap ones say no data cap and some do slowdown after X data use.
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Which is... Well absurd when you think about it.
Not really. They're selling you a data plan with a price based on some assumptions about usage patterns. If you're tethering something, or serving as a NAP for other people, you're using more data.
But it's somehow legal.
As well it should be. It's a private contract between you and your service provider. They should be free to offer you service, just as you are free to decline to buy from them. Government intervention isn't always required, nor is it always a good thing. Personally, I think if you agreed to not tether your devic
Re:Sounds . . . (Score:5, Informative)
Good. Grind it to a fine edge and cut these fraudulent mofos down. MOOCs in general are 90% scam, nothing more than taking the old idea of a correspondence course and adding the phrase "...on the inernet!", and this one specifically is clearly engaging in unethical behavior:
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The improvement over correspondence courses is the real-time interaction. You get quiz results instantly, and you can ask and answer questions as you're doing the material in the forums. In a correspondence course, the shortest time you have to wait is at least days.
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Sounds like the Stats class I took online at FSU.
"Days" was blindingly fast for the TAs in that one.
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It's funny how the guy first says "certificates are worthless" then gets mad because he's asked to do something he doesn't want to do to get the worthless reward. What does he lose by not doing the survey?
Couldn't disagree more! (Score:5, Insightful)
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I, too, have taken three Coursera classes for credit and done all the work. All three were well worth the effort. One was a teaser program for an expensive masters sponsored by the University. That was clear and did not diminish the value. Another was the first offering and was experimenting with peer grading. There were many problems with peer grading, but that did not diminish the value. I respect all three of the instructors and benefited greatly from the work and interaction.
One must have reasonable exp
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Ethical: put you in undischargeable debt equal to twice your future year yearly income as a precondition to being taught and having the university vouch for your completion.
Not ethical: Require you to take a survey in order to get a certificate of completion in a free, unaccredited course.
???
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Except these are free, you can take any number you want on any subject you may be interested in and learn whatever you want.
My god, the horror.
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Not enough to actually bother replying in the thread!
Go on, try it!
Control-F Find for RichDiesal ... no comments!
So no, he doesn't have an axe to grind because he put it away four minutes after he turned the grinder on!
Unless he's lurking. Whatever.
I just have less respect for submitters who don't actively respond to the threads.
Because MOOCs aren't experiments (Score:5, Interesting)
If it was a real experiment, they'd have to have an ethics review and all the details of the research would have to be disclosed to the participants. Since this is not happening, any data derived from the MOOC "research" is not ethically sound, probably completely invalid from a social science perspective, and should probably get Coursera in trouble with certain academic circles.
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Any research like this you will need to show you have IRB approval (or some equivalent) in order to get it published. No reputable journal will accept your paper unless you have it.
But if this is not academic research but marketing research for hire then it's different. No intention to publish so no ethics approval needed.
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Which leads me to believe that this is just some sort course development thing. This is quite common. For instance any time one takes a standardized test, be
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If it was a real experiment, they'd have to have an ethics review and all the details of the research would have to be disclosed to the participants.
Not all research is scientific. Marketing research is real enough and nothing has to be disclosed or passed through an ethics review board, nor disclosed to participants. Arguably, some marketing research might have more effect on your real life than some "real" experiments (e.g., often influencing what you can buy, what is discontinued, features in new products, etc)...
Happens in real classes too (Score:1)
I recall that in Psych 101 at my university in order to pass one had to do a certain number of hours of "research study participation". This entailed going to an office in the psych building and being a psych subject in some grad student's experiment. I don't remember anyone complaining too much about this.
Re:Happens in real classes too (Score:5, Informative)
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I was never offered an alternative when I took Intro to Psych, although this was back in 1986. Your "alternative" was: don't take Intro to Psych. They made it clear on the first day.
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Quid Pro Quo (Score:5, Insightful)
Same as Face-to-Face (Score:2)
This is how teaching ha
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So then you wouldn't have too much of a problem when I give you nonsensical answers to your questions on your "required" questionnaire? The major difference is in traditional class there is oversight (ethics boards) that is non-existent in MOOC and the ability to opt out of it. As TFA states, students were required to populate a database essentially doing the researcher's work. Again, what is to say that I won't just throw all kinds of garbage in that? Then what value is that research when thousands do the
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So then you wouldn't have too much of a problem when I give you nonsensical answers to your questions on your "required" questionnaire?
If it's "required" then I don't see how you can stop someone doing that - which is a very good reason not to make it required without getting consent first.
The major difference is in traditional class there is oversight (ethics boards) that is non-existent in MOOC and the ability to opt out of it.
I don't understand - why can't you opt out of the MOOC? It's not like you are getting a qualification that is worth anything - all you get is the knowledge you learn from the course. If you don't feel like doing assignment X then just don't do it. So what if your course grade suffers - it's only meaning is to let you know how well you are doing with th
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" Coursera A/B tests most every aspect of the student learning experience and makes decisions based on what results in the best student learning outcome. "
Citation needed? I'm really curious about this, because (for example) Udacity makes the same claims and on closer inspection it seems to be basically BS. So if there are concrete examples of how Coursera has done this, I'd like to read about it.
Two Legs Good, Four Legs Better! (Score:3)
The research being conducted with the data collected in MOOCs is one of the most socially valuable results possible since it leads directly to better education for the world.
This scans like marketing newspeak. Astroturf?
Re:that's lot of lazy teachers (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that a MOOC is going to be an inferior experience to a physical lecture and TA-led study sessions. On the other hand it's drastically better than the "no education" you could alternately get for the same price. And if you have an axe to grind against 50,000:1 ratios, are you volunteering to teach at more reasonable ratio in southern Africa or India at local wages?
As far as the lecture itself goes, frankly I would be surprised if 50,000:1 were notably worse than the 500:1 you sometimes see in intro courses, or even a 50:1 ratio. Once the class is too large for the professor to meaningfully engage with students individually then what does it matter how many extra eyes are watching?. It might even be better given the quantized feedback and sample size, and the fact that you can actually read the "blackboard" comfortably. Not to mention immediately back up and repeat any bits that confuse you.
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As far as the lecture itself goes, frankly I would be surprised if 50,000:1 were notably worse than the 500:1 you sometimes see in intro courses, or even a 50:1 ratio. Once the class is too large for the professor to meaningfully engage with students individually then what does it matter how many extra eyes are watching?
Well, there's the problem of fitting the extra few thousand professors into the room.
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Heheheh. How did I miss that?!?!
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I disagree that an online class is inferior. Far too often lecturers don't really do anything more than quote a textbook verbatim.
The online approach allows for an easier way to look up things on the fly (alleviating the need for expensive textbooks somewhat) and allows a greater degree of social participation through things like forums.
It also allows more freedom for different methods of learning, instead of assuming everyone learns in the same way.
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no different (Score:1)
Mountains out of molehills (Score:1)
Actually researchers are required by state laws and university guidelines to follow research consent laws regardless of whether they are done via the university or not. In this case however, the issue is blurred because it depends what the researcher is doing. The line between research using aggregated data and using platform BI tools to benchmark effectiveness are related things but different. It may not be easy to draw the lines as easily as before because data is used for everything now.
Do what I do (Score:2)
Fuck with their data. Give them false answers and rub it in.
I almost never answer online marketing surveys truthfully, particularly when they are required for something they shouldn't be required for. It should be no different when academia does it.
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YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
You should tell them what you honestly think.
Remember Crystal Pepsi? Remember The New Coke? LOTS of people were surveyed before they decided to go forward with the products. They were all wrong! Answering counter to your opinion is probably giving them better data.
Free is never really free (Score:5, Insightful)
Going to a brick and mortar univerrsity will cost you tens of thousands of dollars. How much do MOOCs cost you? Most likely the cost is zero.
As someone who needed to spend years crawling out of my university debt, you would need to use an electron microscope to see the size of the violin I'm playing right now.
Nothing in this world comes for free, nor should it. If you don't like it, then do without, you bloody self-entitled cheepskates.
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LOL, thank you.
The world definitely needs less cheapskates and more cheepskates.
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The fact you fucked up by not using your local uni is your own problem. Most of the planet offers free or near free university level education. Fix your country's system instead of falling for the educational loan scam you 'mericans fall for.
Assuming he is from the USA, your statement isn't really defensible. Higher education in the USA is not available for lower classes (I have a hunch that now includes a large part of the former middle class as well), so his only choices were either "put yourself in debt" or "don't get an education". I can't really see how that is his fault, given that he has no way to influence the system (and no, voting doesn't count). It's easy to say "your fault" for those who grew up in the 1st world (but not in the USA)
Simple Solution (Score:1)
If they "force" you to participate in a study, simply give them garbage results. Choose options at random without reading the question. Deliberately choose false/wrong statements. Do whatever you can to ruin their data-set.
Misses the point (Score:3)
From the article: Instead of paying new employees during an onboarding and training period, business can now require employees to take a “free course” before paying them a dime.
The next step is when companies start suggesting the problems they would like to have solved for course credit. The course is "free" to the participant,but somebody is paying the bills, and that somebody expects to get something of value.
free course is better then a high cost theory base (Score:2)
free course is better then a high cost theory based degree with big skill gaps.
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No it isn't. Skills become obsolete in a year. Theory never does.
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but that Theory can also be part of skills based plan that does 4 years of pure class room. Why not have an apprenticeship system?
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This works until the problems being solved for course credit become so complex/hard/boring/time-consuming that the number of participants drops to 0 and you have to decrease the course cost to negative figures just to get a handful of people to offer to enroll and complete the course... the eLance and vWorker universities are rather popular in developing nations... the StackOverflow university runs a similar model but they manage to run it on a revenue neutral basis to both sides
simple answer (Score:4, Interesting)
From the original post: "Such behavior is not tolerated in "real" college courses, so why is it tolerated in MOOCs taught by the same faculty?"
TFA answers the question quite nicely: "Despite a couple of years of discussion, the question of monetization remains largely unresolved. MOOCs are about as popular as they were, they still drain resources from the companies hosting them, and they still don’t provide much to those hosts in return." Good or bad, it's an attempt to try to get something useful in return for the effort it takes to create a MOOC course. It's as simple as that, and there's no reason to read anything more sinister into it.
And let's not hyperbolically describe this as "holding the users hostage," okay? Users are free to leave the course whenever they want -- hostage situations don't usually work that way.
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And let's not hyperbolically describe this as "holding the users hostage," okay? Users are free to leave the course whenever they want
Not if the forced study participation occurs halfway through the course when users have already invested significant ressources. As long as the annoyance being asked for is less than than the total amount of work invested, people will stay in whether they like it or not, making this approach highly unethical (unless it's clearly communicated before peple enroll).
You are the product (Score:3)
What college did you go to? (Score:4, Interesting)
Signing up for one or more experiments was a requirement of every undergrad psych class I took.
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> The university sponsoring it is Yale and the professor was just awarded the Nobel prize!
That is... naive. It is highly unlikely that that professor has any hand in this. It is like saying "pharao Khufu(Cheops) built the great pyramid", only that the pharao likely had a much bigger role in building the pyramid - he caused it to happen in the first place, while the professor may or may not have heard of all the tiny little things his team of Ph.D.s and Ph.D. hopefuls and other helpers are doing all day.
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> That is... naive. It is highly unlikely that that professor has any hand in this.
I suspect you are wrong. Prof. Shiller already makes his classes available through OpenYale. I have watched several of his lectures. His lectures are quite engaging and he seems to enjoy teaching.
not tolerated (Score:2)
Horrible story text.
I'm wasn't aware that universities had an existing policy in effect protecting non-tuititive students from forced enrolment of their metadata in minor research programs.
Doesn't he have somewhere else to troll?
Econ 101 (Score:2)
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Physics 101: dark energy is free.
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TINSTAAFL
Think Infinite Natural Supply To Act As Free Lunches.
This is the Age of Information. Copies are in infinite supply, their price will be zero regardless of cost to create; Otherwise "piracy" could not exist.
The bits are not scarce. Monetize what is scarce: The ability to create new configurations of bits, not the infinitely reproducible output thereof. Monetizing artificial scarce information is as untenable as selling ice to Eskimos.
Econ 101, indeed.
Formal Edu vs. Tech - which way will /. go? (Score:2)
If anyone's interested, we could probably find some open source software to run a betting pool on how
Put me down as 'author has axe to grind' (Score:3)
I took that first Thrun/Norvig pre-Udacity AI course. I have been taking one or two Udacity or Coursera courses per season since they started up. Before any of this, I was watching Stanford courses on iTunesU. Sometimes I complete the course. Sometimes I don't. But I almost always get something out of the courses. I am a mid-senior software engineer, but I still have plenty to learn.
I have never been the kind of student who approached the professor outside of class, so I think that MOOCs are fine (I barely even use the MOOC forums.) Most of the problems that I have found with the MOOCs could have just as easily been a problem with an in-person course.
For example, I recently took a Coursera Social Psychology course. It started off very interesting, but, about halfway through, it seemed clear to me that the lecturer had an agenda and the course veered into promoting the agenda (plus a little "help me refine some psychology software that I have been developing") over education on the topics. Since I was more than halfway through I finished watching all of the lectures, but found myself rolling my eyes more and more frequently. But, I have seen that kind of thing in in-person courses, as has my perpetual grad student brother.
I have applied for the Udacity/GATech Online Master of CS program. If I get in, since I will be paying money, I will take it more seriously than I have the other MOOCs that I have taken.
College courses (Score:1)
This is certainly allowed in college courses and is how I get the bulk of the subjects for my own research.
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Holding it hostage for class credit, though? Usually they'll provide an alternate assignment if someone whines