NZ Illegal Downloading Crackdown Law In Effect 329
First time accepted submitter sfranklin writes "As of Sept 1 at midnight, 'anyone caught downloading copyrighted content illegally could face fines of up to $15,000 and have their internet cut off' in New Zealand. You don't even have to do the deed yourself. The 'account holder needs to know what's going on even if they themselves don't do anything online ...' Scary stuff, although I wonder how much actual enforcement is likely to happen."
Not all bad (Score:4, Insightful)
If I were a Kiwi (slang for New Zealander in case you didn't know), this law would give me an additional impetus to begin searching for free/open-source/creative commons software and media for all my computing and entertainment needs. Sure, I'd buy stuff occasionally as well, but if I had to buy every single thing I was using which was pirated I'd be broke and seriously in debt. Much better to hunt out legally free software and media.
Having said that, I'm an Aussie (the bigger brother of the Kiwis) and it's a hobby for me to do this anyway even though we don't have such a draconian law. I suppose some others in NZ might find ways to get around it, but I don't see the point of risking it myself.
Re:Not all bad (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd invest a couple of bucks a month to rent a seedbox in Burkina Faso or Tonga.
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I'd invest a couple of bucks a month to rent a seedbox in Burkina Faso or Tonga.
The funniest thing about that I think you avoid the law completely (yes its still covered by the general copywrite one) as well as the added bonus of being anonymous to all but the governments.
IANAL but since you are not torrenting outside the country you can be easily prosecuted for the torrenting from the seedbox/vps. Then since the law only covers p2p at the application level the ftps or ssh downloading to your desktop is fine (yes again there is the general copywrite law).
I would think that this law wil
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Aussie might not have laws like NZ's [yet], but sometimes they don't NEED such laws...
One person - from Overseas - was sharing his I'net feed with a house mate UNTIL he received a "We see you've been downloading someone else's IP." eMail from his ISP. So afraid that a prosecution (eg, for IP theft, or whatever the crime is in AU) would adversely affect an upcoming decision on Permanent Residence, that they STOPPED sharing their I'net feed.
I HAPPEN TO KNOW that the Overseas guy kept the router set to use onl
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IP theft, or whatever the crime is in AU
Downloading is not a crime in Oz and nobody has ever been sued for it in an Australian civil court, but somehow the Australian government is responsible for Overseas_guy's rampant paranoia? He was never in any danger and should have done what most Aussie's do in that situation, ie: tell his current ISP to go fuck themselves and switch to one of the many ISP's that do not forward AFACT's idle threats to their customers.
Re:Not all bad (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought America was all free-market and capitalism? It sounds more like communism with your lack of choice.
You're kidding, right? You must be new here or something. This subject comes up pretty regularly on Slashdot, with lots of other Americans saying the exact same things as me. I'm a little surprised given your relatively low UID.
No, America is NOT free-market and capitalism. We love oligopolies and monopolies here. In fact, we think that any government action to limit monopolies is bad, because it's "punishing success", and that monopolies should be allowed to do anything they want to their customers or potential competitors. We even think that corporations are people; there's a good chance our next President will be a man who said those very words. Don't forget, we also believe in allowing unlimited abuse of the patent system, so that big corporations can use vague patents on obvious "inventions" to shut out competition from smaller rivals.
However, we don't believe in communism. Communism (in practice) is where the government controls everything, and owns all the corporations. What we believe in here in America is an elite group of people running the corporations, and the government only serving to protect their interests. That's frequently called "fascism".
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i agree with the spirit of what you're saying, what we have, loosely, is fascism
however, Romney does not have a good chance, his chances approach zero. if the economy is rebounding around election time, it'll be Obama. if we're in the middle of the double-dip of recession, it'll be President Rick Perry
unless one happens to be LGBT, or a billionaire, life will get worse at approximately the same rate under either option. not sure if it has any legs, but Perry has been blathering about the "injustice" t
Communism (Score:3)
Actually, true communism has no separate government; everyone is part of it. A modern communist society would have a direct democracy system where everyone is consulted of everything, not a dear leader or a selected party/assembly taking decisions for you and me (much less oligopolies, lobbiers etc). In the past such a system (direct democracy) would had proven unfeasible, but IT today can actually make it happen.
The only problem is the rich would oppose it. Because richness needs poverty to exist. Unless t
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Actually, true communism has no separate government; everyone is part of it. A modern communist society would have...
That's why I added the words "in practice", because invariably someone pops up and says "that's not true communism!" Everything you say here is really just the No True Scotsman argument. In REAL communist societies, especially the former USSR, what I said is true. You can talk all you want about imaginary societies, and give them whatever name you want, but it's really irrelevant, and it's
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The parent has a point.
If measures like this are really successful, they will reveal that the alleged losses that software makers suffer from due to piracy are completely imaginary. Nobody except well-running, larger companies can or will afford to buy the tons of commercial software available and certainly no school kid can afford to buy 10 games at 60 $ every month. The industry's expectations are ridiculous.
To give an example, when I used to be a very poor student that could barely afford to pay his ele
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Why would the source code to a medical device matter to you? First, there isn't a thing you could change about it. If you changed it, as a different patient I wouldn't want to trust your changes. If I were your doctor, I don't know your qualifications so I wouldn't trust your changes, and so I wouldn't prescribe the use of the changed software. All software and changes to the devices have to be tested and certified.
The only thing you might think you could do would be to make a choice of "certified machi
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In addition, this law reduces the maximum penalty for copyright infringement from $50,000 to $15,000.
If you are in the right, you can still challenge this in court. An IP address isn't proof, but it is very strong evidence that someone did something.
...and I'm from New Zealand btw.
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but it is very strong evidence that someone did something.
And unless they have very strong evidence that that someone was you, I think they should lose instantly.
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Are you guys on the "innocent until proven guilty" standard over there?
Not at all. However in my opinion this is much more like a speeding ticket in which they take a picture of your number plate (or IP Address) and you can pay a fine, or challenge it; rather than being like a robbery.
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It would come down to what the reasonable person would do in that situation.
Now all we have to do is define "reasonable."
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It is? How? Because they claim it is?
Computers don't lie. They can get a list of IPs from a torrent tracker and connect to them. If they upload the content, that is proof that the connection is being used to break the law.
Is it meant to give your argument some weight? In either case, it's totally irrelevant.
While it is irrelevant as to whether or not my argument is valid, it shows that I am arguing for myself to be under the same laws that I am arguing for.
This law that has generated protests against because of the lack of oversight, the lack of public input, no legal standard of evidence, no firm way to prove innocence
You mean it has generated protests because people want to complain that they can't get a free ride anymore?
Have you actually read the bill before making statements about it? S
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You mean it has generated protests because people want to complain that they can't get a free ride anymore?
Yes. Anyone who complains about this law must be a copyright infringer.
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But why are they protesting now and not before? The new law reduces the penalties and makes nothing that was previously legal now illegal.
The new law streamlines infringement cases, and contrary to the FUD many people speak of, innocent people do not have to pay up.
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But why are they protesting now and not before?
I don't know. And unless you can read everyone's mind, I don't think you do, either.
innocent people do not have to pay up.
It's possible that innocent people can be found guilty.
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Thing is, this is more likely targetting TV episode/movie/music downloads. Unless Netflix or similar service is in place, people will continue to download.
Anyone know how easy it is in NZ to get a different ISP?
What's the ISP market like?
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Anyone know how easy it is in NZ to get a different ISP?
Very easy.
What's the ISP market like?
Fairly competitive but still overpriced for the small data allowances you get. There's essentially one big backbone ISP (Telecom) and most of the smaller ISPs wholesale connections from them, and regulations prohibit Telecom from blocking competition.
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It is sadly telling that your comment - advocating going completely legit by such means as finding alternative media - currently sits at +4 Insightful, with the very first reply - advocating continuing illegal behavior but in a way that would make it difficult for you to be caught - sits at +5 Interesting.
As hopeful as I am that people would follow your example - which in the end 'hurts' big media more - I rather suspect they'll go with the alternative.. can't very well miss that latest episode of Game of T
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Whatever you think are talking about, it isn't reality.
Re:Not all bad (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not all bad (Score:4, Informative)
Said so from the land of 3 strikes-your-out.. seriously besides France, I thought Australia was the worst place to be if you're a pirate
Don't believe anything AFACT tells you. There are no baseball inspired laws in Oz against downloading, rumours of such were just another AFACT wet dream [itnews.com.au]. The MO of these parasites is simple and obvious, make exaggerated claims in country A about what is done to "battle piracy" in country B, if country A is dumb/corrupt enough to actually implement it in law, reverse A with B and repeat.
Also it is not a crime to download copyrighted material in Oz since everything on the internet is copyright by default, sure AFACT can try and sue you in civil court for damages but it's never been done because the only damage they can claim is the real cost of the material, as such most cases would not even make the $50 minimum damages bar to get the case heard in the small claims court. If AFACT conducted themselves like their brethren do in the US (pay $X,000 or we will sue), I'm pretty sure they would be investigated by the authorities for racketeering and/or extortion (admittedly I may be giving them too much credit).
Pretty Quiet (Score:2)
Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
It'll be enforced almost never, except against people who earn a personal grudge from someone in authority. Turn down that creepy ex-politician for a date? Get a knock on the door from the state sponsored copyright cops. Film a cop beating up a homeless guy and post the video on YouTube? Your NAS gets seized by her majesty's finest.
It's like criminalizing swearing. Since everyone except extreme outliers is guilty of the crime at some point or another, it's not possible to enforce it properly so the law becomes just something else to throw at people who piss off people with power.
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Or they could do it like they do in Germany... lawyers contact copyright owners and make a deal (percentage of the money recovered), then they connect to the various trackers to find content belonger to their customers. Once said content is found, they check if there are German IPs in the torrent. If they find German IPs, they go to the judge to get a court order to force the ISP to reveal the account information for that specific IP, with that specific router MAC address, in that specific timeframe. Finall
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Re:Simple (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't work like that at all.
The copyright owners must contact the ISP with proof of an offence (an IP address from a torrent would be enough), then the ISP passes on the warning.
If you get three notices, then you have to go to court and defend yourself by proving that you didn't download the material.
That is a terrible link in the summary, more detail about the law can be found here [legislation.govt.nz].
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If you get three notices, then you have to go to court and defend yourself by proving that you didn't download the material.
So it's guilty unless proven innocent, then? For all they know, you weren't even the one doing it.
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Right. Because torrent trackers have NEVER been known to include bogus IP addresses which weren't connected.
stupid attorny generals (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do people in real high power approve such shit laws?
Sure if we all received a nice 350k salary we would never ever pirate anything.
And stop using the term pirate, we arent raping people on boats.
Its civil copywrite violations.
Oh and btw every cop in NZ uses bit torrent to download movies for their kids, they sure dont get paid enough to buy games/movies.
I wanna see politians on 55k salary.
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It's like criminalizing swearing.
Like they did in Australia?
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As a kiwi. . (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think that anyone actually wants us to use the internet.
We have always been penalised because of and by it. Expensive and slow by international standards. . . and now this finally passes (it has been on the books for some time)
I would write more, but I am likely to go over my data cap any minute.
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Yeah I'm already over my data cap, I've been waiting a week before I can start watching Youtube videos and download again, only a couple more days to go.
It really is appalling and a backwards attitude is seen from both Telecom providers and the government here. It results in usage of search engines, smart phone apps etc that's years behind countries like the US and UK, even taking into account population differences. I'm totally disappointed to hear that this passed. The country I feel in many areas takes
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Odd - especially given its name and all.
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Sounds good in theory but you get put on the very bottom priority level for bandwidth and if you go over moderate usage they traffic shape you into the ground. Its ok in some areas but get any decently congested exchange and it turns into dialup really fast.
You also have the fun of actually trying to deal with slingshot if something goes wrong which will have you waiting on hold for two hours at any time to get to their lowest level of helpdesk.
You also ge the pleasure of paying $10 a month for a single st
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Totally agree, another New Zealander here, for a country that keeps BSing on and on about wanting to be a technological powerhouse the government does a damn good job trying to supress technology. They let companies like Telecom cap bandwidth to the point that it cripples net use and add so much additional tax on technology items that they can easily cost double what they cost in other countries.
They are so proud of their fibre to the home plan which will take decades to deliver outdated tech and they have
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When people stopped downloading illegal content over your narrow pipe I bet there will be a lot more available bandwidth you to download the legitimate content you've been waiting for!
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Of course they don't! They HATE the public Internet that we've been using for the past few decades.
They want you to move over to their nice new PRIVATE Akamai-run Internet where there's a meter on everything.
That regular people ever got access to the Internet was a surprise to most companies. Look at the way the telecoms are scrambling to take ownership of the Internet.
The only reason we ever had a public Internet is that it was developed by
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Do you remember early AOL before you could use it to get to the Web?
Forget AOL; do you remember CompuServe (or Compu$erve as many called it) before AOL, with their crazy numeric usernames and ridiculous and expensive per-hour charges? I seem to remember charges like $4-8/hour, and this was back in the 1980s when salaries were a fraction of what they are now. Plus there were additional charges for other activities on there.
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Kids these days. I remember 33kbps was fast (compared to 19kbps).
As culture dies in New Zealand (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:As culture dies in New Zealand (Score:4, Interesting)
NZ is the only English speaking country I've been to where the music scene isn't dominated by US or UK bands/artists. Local bands regularly make up a fair portion of the charts.
NZ's trademark sound is a Maori influenced 'pacific' flavour of reggae/dub (check out Fat Freddy's Drop), but drum & bass (and d&b influenced stuff like dubstep) is also much more popular in the mainstream than elsewhere. There's also quite a few decent homegrown alternative/rock groups, some of which have achieved international success. I have listed some of the most popular NZ originated bands/artists in the last 10 years.
Roots/Dub/Reggae
Fat Freddy's Drop
Katchafire
Salmonella Dub
The Black Seeds
Trinity Roots
International Observer
Rock/Punk/Metal etc
Stereogram
The Mint Chicks
Evermore
Minuit
The Datsuns
Head Like a Hole
Fur Patrol
8 Foot Sativa
Dawn of Azazel
Drum & Bass
Concord Dawn
The Upbeats
Shapeshifter
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Its not all like that, there are plenty of styles of NZ music avalible:
Pacifier/Shihad
Elemeno P
Autozamm
Slim
Goodnight Nurse
Bulletproof
Dragon
Eight
Fur Patrol
Midnight Youth
Etc. etc. etc.
http://nzmusic.org.nz/artists/search/ [nzmusic.org.nz]
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Yeh, because everyone knows that illegally downloading things is also known is "culture".
Ahem. kawabago is talking about the downloading or purchasing of culture. Not the culture of downloading or purchasing.
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The only culture you're allowed, is the one that you're told to like. Much like Canada, with Cancon. And if you're not paying for it, you can expect to have your net cut off.
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I misread this as "can expect to have your nut cut off" and my immediate thought was "will they allow you to choose which one?"
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Not the second time...
When? (Score:2)
Do they mean midnight at the start of 1 Sep or the one at the other end?
Chronicles of Ridiculous (Score:4, Interesting)
1. All Content is Copyright by default.
2. How do you distinguish the legal from the illegal content?
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1. All Content is Copyright by default.
2. How do you distinguish the legal from the illegal content?
Exactly. In other countries they refer to the 'sharing' as the illegal part. Here in NZ it appears to be the 'downloading'. Does that mean if I watch 'RayWilliamJohnson' on youtube he can have my internet cut off?
How am I to know whether the person who posted the video has the rights to post it, or not?
If they're talking about 'sharing' then it's certainly not very clear in their education campaign.
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How am I to know whether the person who posted the video has the rights to post it, or not?
IANAL but I wonder if you could mount a legal defence based on YouTube's user policies and their policing of the content they see to be doing these days
Re:Chronicles of Ridiculous (Score:4, Insightful)
Copyright is the new enclosure of the commons. The digital commons is being enclosed by corporate/government powers because it is a threat to the status quo.
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You're right - we can't 100% distinguish that. Especially not when somebody may have a personal video up on YouTube and in the background happens to be a piece of footage from a film on a TV, and the copyright owner of that piece decides to present a copyright claim.
And because we can't make that distinction, we might as well download:
At least they got patents right (Score:2)
At least there are no software patents [itwire.com] there. So free software and creative commons thrive without the impetus that is the idea of people owning applied math on a computational device.
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That has yet to pass the final reading and they gave no good reason for the delay (I would think they are being lobbied by "people" from US). I would think it will eventually pass though.
The NZOSS did tell MS where to stick their OOXML patent though.
If this were the US (Score:2)
how much actual enforcement is likely to happen
If this were the US, I'd expect it to be like the War on Drugs: Plenty of enforcement, very little justice.
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The people profit (Score:2)
If someone induces government ministers or departments to download your own personally created copyrighted content, you then each and collectively sue the government and it's departments to oblivion.
Some links to the actual bill (Score:4, Informative)
My connection has improve dramatically (Score:4, Interesting)
I haven't been able to hit 5Mbps for 3-4 years (it's not much, but I'm in rural New Zealand), and I've never been able to stream video in high quality, but tonight I'm totally able to. My ping is only 25ms, and I never thought it would be possible to have a ping so low. Now I can play games online!
I was against it, but, maybe it's not such a bad thing? What do you guys think?
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Nice to get what you pay for instead of subsidising someone else :)
Probably Selectively (Score:2)
If you want to fuck with the system, all you guys down there could start generating your own damn content under the commons. At least until the *AAs come back and get the commons outlawed. One of the nice side effects of all that DRM is it makes it significantly harder for your average user to generate t
Combined with... (Score:2)
Some people in Los Angeles have buy some games for 20$. This is because Amazon give discounts. Is all ok, but on the other side of the pacific, people play for the same game maybe 80$. Media in that part of the world are more expensive for not real reason. And I am talking about a digital download. I suppose the media cartel there can use higher prices, since physical good can be really more expensive, if are produced elsewhere and imported. But theres not good reason to apply that to bits. You can h
How about "saving" content? (Score:2)
File sharing? Most of us don't even go there anymore. Everything can be taken straight off youtube in broad daylight:
http://en.crav-ing.com/ [crav-ing.com]
Another awkward moment for justice, for being able to do the same thing but legally... and for it being powered by google.
Moronic laws (Score:2)
I have a website, but I didn't explicitly authorize NZ residents to view it. Does that make it illegal for NZ residents to download my copywritten material just by visiting the website? Politicians and lobbyists really do live on another planet.
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Remember that policy drives behavior (Score:2)
I would also turn off the wireless on any internet-connected devices and go hard-wired only.
There are certainly other measures one could take to protect oneself from inadvertently becoming a victim of this sort of law - but those are a couple of basic ones.
I wonder if the people who voted for the law will like the con
You connection, your problem. (Score:2)
goodluckwiththat (Score:2)
So if a lowly government employee downloads a copyrighted MP3 on the government network, the government falls?
Some good links (Score:3, Interesting)
here is some good reading by a leading NZ IP lawyer, on the new law...
http://lawgeeknz.posterous.com/copyright-cheapskates [posterous.com]
and http://lawgeeknz.posterous.com/nzs-copyright-proposal-guilty-until-you-prove [posterous.com]
Its only for torrents!! (Score:4, Informative)
The law only applies for using p2p at the the application layer. I would think about 3 out of our 120 politicians have a basic understanding of torrents/internet.
There are so may obvious ways around this but they either cost or are less convenient. http://bayfiles.com/ [bayfiles.com] is just in time.
It also makes it so you are very unlikely (a little less than before) to be prosecuted under our general copy-write law. I would say the stupidity of discrimination against protocols makes will make piracy easier.
This law is crap (Score:2)
I rent a couple of rooms in my house to students and I include free internet. I have no clue what they might be downloading on it.
If I were a Kiwi, I'd be connecting to my ISP through a cheap shelf company. That way if I get sued, they can sue the empty shelf company and get nowhere. Don't know if that is a loophole or not....
This will end well (Score:3)
Next up: Bot nets start downloading illegal content. Hilarity ensues.
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I'd like to say yes, but as we all know, the people with lots of money and connection... it's legal. The people without money or connections... it's illegal. That's probably how it'll play out.
Sigh.
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Having said that, there is impetus for laws that are based on the concept that 'you can be held accountable for the actions of others'. For example, speed cameras. If your car is recorded speeding through a camera, you are legally accountable. It is your responsibility to demonstrate that you wer
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Except that it's practically impossible for someone to be driving your car without you knowing about it.
Unless they were driving it illegally, in which case you'd have a total defense.
Does an equivalent defense exist for internet usage? If so, then there's a simple solution:
Every day or so, submit a filing to the NZ Police, to the affect of:
"I have reason to believe, having just reviewed my logs, that at some point on [day], a person or persons without authorization to access my WiFi probably downloaded cop
Re:Illegal law in most countries (Score:5, Interesting)
While nice in theory, it has a downside... I'm originally from NZ but haven't lived there in a long time. When I did though, I was once talking to a guy on IRC who was pretty seriously talking about doing some rather nasty things involving explosives and a jet liner... While I couldn't be certain if he was serious or not, I decided to do the right thing and let the police know about it.
What happened for doing my civic duty? Well, the police turn up at my house with a search warrant citing "attempted murder and breach of the telecommunications act" (interesting combo, but yes, that's what it said) and took all my computers away to "investigate". Several months later, I finally got them back, with the HDD wiped on a couple and the power switch physically broken on one.
I made a complaint to the police complaints authority, but was essentially ignored the whole time.
Only minor plus was I got in the Southland Times (newspaper) and it raised a fair bit of attention with the general public (enough that people recognised me on the street for a few months)
Back on the topic at hand: If you did do something like you suggest, I'd expect similar treatment would ensue...
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modern *intelligent* man does not call the police.
they are not your friends, they are DANGEROUS and they can 'backfire' on you, as you found out.
I will deal with the crime before I call the cops. calling the cops is the last thing you want to do, these days. just not smart anymore.
sad but a truism of today's world. does not matter which country, either; they ALL will turn against their citizens if the wind blows that way, that day.
once a cop comes out to make a visit, they HATE returning with 'nothing'.
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"Be very careful about how you secure your broadband. You are accountable for it."
I have an apparatus from my broadband provider letting me open a wifi network. The thing is SO broken that when I activate WEP or WPA i can't connect to it anymore. I have to have some kind of 'false' security by opening my wifi by mac addresses. I have NO way of securing my wifi network as it should be. I am not ignorant, I just can't secure my wifi network.
No, tell me what i should do if this kind of stupid law come into the
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Four basic choices:
1. take your chances
2. stop using WiFi
3. move
4. start revolution
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Buy a properly-working equivalent device?
I understand and agree with your point, I just think your example needs some work.
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No, tell me what i should do if this kind of stupid law come into the country i live in?
Spend hours nagging your ISP to replace /fix theirs. Or buy a used wifi router for $10 and use that instead. Save a lot of time and hassle. I just did that (actually mine cost $6).
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Having said that, there is impetus for laws that are based on the concept that 'you can be held accountable for the actions of others'. For example, speed cameras. If your car is recorded speeding through a camera, you are legally accountable. It is your responsibility to demonstrate that you were not behind the wheel at the time.
No it's not. The burden of proof is always on the accuser. If the government fails to meet that burden and still convicts, it is tyrannical.
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What on earth would be the point to that other than adding a few $$ to your electric bill and more pollution to the EM spectrum?
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You can set AC scores or even hide AC posts entirely in your preferences.
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Except:
the quality of the movies produced has gone down
the price of popcorn has shot through the roof
you have to sit through 10 times the adverts (and it's never for anything local any more its always big companies trying to sell you more sh** you don't need)
and the seats are still as uncomfortable as ever
I don't know which part of the world you're in, but the price of the ticket is as expensive as buying the DVD when it first comes out. And there I get to watch it as many times as I please, with as many pe
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No sane copy write holder is going to issue notices against a school, if it was to get close to cutting off the schools internet there would be public outcry that would probably overturn or at least reopen the legislation which will have pissed off every internet user in the country (no free wifi anywhere and having to prevent other who know more than them from downloading).
We pay for a decent cap so its not improving anyone’s profits if we start paying 20 to 60 percent less.
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That hasn't stopped idiotic lawyers attempting to sue Grannies who don't own computers or single unemployed mothers. These systems are usually automated with little or no human interaction.
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I would expect getting damages for downloading in NZ is like getting blood out of a stone. Expecting to make a profit is just insane.
It will cost 75 NZD (3*$25) (at least) to get users details from ISPs a long with wages to send these order for likely payout of less than $500 assuming it all works out.
We also have dynamic IPs (adsl) so if you reset your connection they may have to pay 50 dollars or more to get one of the 3 notices.
To automate this process is likely to loose them money. For about 3 months of
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Oh America, when will you ever learn the difference between "your" and "you're"?