ATM Repairman Accused of Taking (and Faking) Cash 258
fysdt writes "An ATM repairman was nabbed in Phoenix on charges of having stolen about $200,000 in ATM funds. His method was almost brilliant in its sheer stupidity: He pocketed the cash, and replaced it in the machines with 'counterfeit or photocopied $20 bills.'"
Would come as a suprise... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Photocopied? (Score:5, Interesting)
More realistically, he was probably an opportunist, possibly with a newfound need for fast cash, and good counterfeit currency, while certainly not impossible to make or obtain, is not something you can just get ahold of in a moment. Were a sophisticated counterfeiting operation looking for a dispersal method, an ATM service dude might be a useful 'hire'. A random ATM service dude probably doesn't know how to just look up the local counterfeiters...
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Re:Photocopied? (Score:5, Informative)
No, if he was smarter he would have grabbed a couple of million then gone to the Bahamas.
As a police friend of mine says, if you're going to commit a crime, do it just once and make it worthwhile. The people who get caught are the ones who have to keep going back to do it again.
Re:Photocopied? (Score:4, Informative)
The ATM machines don't hold that much. I know... I did some pick-up work as an ATM messenger (read: guy who stuff's money in and takes deposits out) for a while after the dot.Bomb. Typical bank ATM might hold $200K in $20's if it was full. The little ATMs that you find in a Walmart or 7-11 are maxed out at $60K.
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A police officer not only encouraging crime, but encouraging BIG crime. Fantastic.
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And maybe his payola would go up.
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Makes sense. If you have to do it twice, you double your odds of getting caught. OTOH, if you're a pro and do thousands of crimes per second then the incremental odds of getting caught are negligible. That's why the best criminals are corporations.
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Not how probability works.
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Right, the thing is afaict there are three stages to "getting caught"
1: the police decide it was probablly a given person
2: the police manage to track the person down and arrest them
3: the court confirms the polices determination in 1
If the criminal can break the chain at any of these stages then they don't "get caught"
This criminal spectacually failed to break the chain at stage 1 (he used his work ID). He kept it stopped at stage 2 for a while but ultimately failed (the article doesn't say exactly how but
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Forget the gloat, show some empathy. Quite clearly a 64 year flip out. Felt his life had gone nowhere, died his hair and basically had a mental breakdown and committed a crime that he must have known he would never get away with.
That final acceptance of imminent demise compared to the immortality of youth and no hope of change in future strike many people in different ways, fortunately the harm caused by this bout of temporary insanity was minimal. Keeping screwing tighter the screws of competitive press
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The guy is in Phoenix, so it doesn't surprise me. I live there, and I can't wait to move out. This town is full of con artists, scammers, MLMs, and meth-heads (I'm probably being a little redundant here), and highly lacking in people who do real work for a living.
Seriously, the guy is probably a meth addict, and in his euphoria didn't see why he would get caught.
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held in lieu of bail? (Score:5, Funny)
Geez, he has $200,000 in cash and can't make bail? He should have asked the arresting officer to stop by an ATM on his way to jail ...
Photocopied? (Score:2)
Aren't color photocopiers supposed to give an error message when you try to copy a banknote?
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I wouldn't try that very often; some machines will seize up and refuse to operate further when they find a banknote until a service person from the company comes to reset it, and then you'll have some 'splainin to do.
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This guy was in Phoenix. US banknotes. Crappy security features compared to other nations currencies.
Love that name (Score:3)
What's with all the 'money' articles? (Score:2)
Bitcoin, faked cash in ATMs etc?
I knew it!! (Score:2)
Why is the bail so low? (Score:2)
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A) It's just bail. Bail has to do with risk of fleeing not punishment for a crime.
B) He probably pissed the money away as fast as he got it
C) 175K is't really enough money to go into hiding for any sizable period of time.
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Apparently the bail was enough to keep him in jail, so why should it have been any more? How high do you think it should have been? Sure, he stole $200K, but where is it? They're not going to let him out of jail so he can go dig up some of his money and come back with the cash to pay his bail. And he can't really ask his wife to go get it for him, because he ditched her as soon as he stole the money.
You know what really sucks? (Score:2, Insightful)
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The one thing a bank offers to it's checking/savings account customers is trust. If word gets out that a given bank can not be trusted with your money (they give you counterfeit money and make it your problem), that bank will quickly find itself with no account holders.
Re:You know what really sucks? (Score:4, Informative)
You're crazy. We've reversed transactions at ATMs with our bank [pnc.com] where the ATM didn't spit out the money but marked it as a successful transaction; they gave us a temporary credit and a month later sent us a letter saying their investigation found that our report was accurate and that the credit was now permanent. With something like this, I'd imagine the investigation would be pretty easy; just track which machines the guy refilled.
C'mon. There's cynical and then there's not doing the research.
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Yeah, the whole thing about BoA? That's why we don't bank with BoA. :^P
Seriously unsurprising (Score:5, Informative)
Some years ago, I worked for a company (two companies actually) centered around the ATM vending machine service. While there, I learned how trivial it actually is to rob ATMs. While I am certain the technologies and security protocols involved have evolved beyond my previous knowledge of the time, most ATMs were a small terminal with a cash dispenser and connected to "the network" by a simple dialup modem which operated over the public POTS network. By using a device called a "skuch" box which simulated POTS networking, modems and other such things such as a laptop with transaction processing software simulating the ATM authorization network, a person could connect to a local ATM terminal, run simulated transactions and dispense real cash in massive amounts without raising a great deal of suspicion from most shops and stores which host ATMs.
As I said, my knowledge is "OLD." I am pretty sure the are now using other communications technologies such as wireless networks and such, but given that it has been shown how trivial taking over or creating your own local GSM network actually, is, adapting the previously described methods to current technologies would not only be easier, but could be done wirelessly from a "service van" close by. (I observe that many businesses still authorize credit card transactions over POTS so it seems to me that ATM debit transactions are still done over POTS as well, so many the old methods are still valid in some places.)
But you get the idea -- ATMs are cash dispensers controlled by highly vulnerable computers operating over highly vulnerable networks.
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You would like to think that, but no. Very often, transaction processing goes through several networks and agents along the way. And each of them take a portion of the [often ridiculous] fee you get charged for every transaction. Some segments of the processing network get as little as 5 cents per transaction while others collect a quarter. But if you imagine that it is one ATM programmed to talk to one end point, you would be sadly mistaken. It's far more complex than that.
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You'd think they'd be using public key encryption to verify both the machine and the ATM network (which would mean, if done right, it wouldn't matter what transport you used).
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They just aren't as smart as you give them credit for. This is Diebold and similar companies we are talking about -- they can't create a system that adds one to a number reliably (voting machine) let alone a secure cash vending system.
The cash vending system has MANY players and providers involved. And an ATM owner needs to be able to change carriers at will for various reasons including transaction providers going out of business or shopping for a lower transaction fee.
BTW, owning a fleet of ATMs is a lu
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Just to emphasize how bad ATM security is likely to be, most ATMs are made by Diebold. Yes, that Diebold [tmcnet.com].
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I had dinner with a guy who ran the ATM operations for a major Midwest bank about various schemes to defraud ATMs.
I remember in the 1980s seeing ATMs from his bank at the student union with exposed modems and I asked him explicitly about faking transactions. His response was that even back then they were running 3DES between ATM and bank and that it would have been pretty much impossible.
He says the best technique was and is just stealing the entire ATM and breaking into it at your convenience, which he sai
Told you, never trust ATM (Score:2)
Fractions (Score:5, Funny)
Every time there's a bank transaction where interest is computed, you know, thousands a day? The computer ends up with these fractions of a cent, which it usually rounds off. Just take those little remainders and put them into an account.
There were a couple movies where this was done and it worked brilliantly.
I may have been wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
Those in category 1 would usually be annoyed that they had funny money but would be cooperative. The other 2 categories no so much. Very often these people would become belligerent and when informed that I would be bringing in the police would get threatening. The worst case was one individual who had tried to pass a counterfeit $100 bill that he had run off on his home ink jet printer. The colors were all wrong, incorrect weight, incorrect texture, was cut wrong (used scissors), missing the water mark, missing security strip, and also failed the counterfeit detector pen.He insisted that the bill was real as he had just gotten it from the ATM (our ATM only Dispensed $20s) and that he had a wallet full of them now, yes he really did show me a pile of counterfeit $100s. When informed that I was calling the cops he threatened me stormed off. The nice thing was that the Eagan police station was only a couple of blocks down the road. So while I was calling the police he was stuck at the light waiting to turn right heading towards the police station. I was able to give the police a complete description of the person, car description, and license plate number. The picked him up about half way between the gas station and police station.
Why does the ATM play a tune? (Score:2)
Seriously. The old Diebold ATM at my little local bank plays a short mechanical tune with a trill at the end when dispensing cash. What is this? No one has ever been able to answer this question.
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I had the same reaction. I don't get the technical connection here. If he had used photoshop or something to make the copies more realistic maybe I could see it but this is just generic police blotter fodder.
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It gives us geeks somebody to point at and say "duh, stupid!"
We get to feel all superior, in this case, with real justification.
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And much like the mafia, the Federal Reserve does not take it lightly if you invade their territory.
The sad thing is that you were modded troll...apparently by someone that isn't interested in contemplating why a country that has a printing press and a sovereign right to print money ends up trillions in debt.
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Your implied reason for the debt is incorrect.
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Isn't it a little late to be complaining about this? It's 40 years later and Nixon's dead.
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There is such thing as Gresham's law, and gov't decree only makes the matters worse due to capital flight. You can outlaw real money, but you can't make your fake money have any value artificially.
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Let me rephrase my question then. Since there are no countries in the world still using "real money" and the US was actually one of the last to switch from gold-backed currency what exactly do you expect to happen? Do you really see the entire world switching back to a gold standard? Do you really plan on going to the store and paying in gold coins that are weighed at the register?
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No, I don't need to pay gold at the register, it's not needed at all. However bank accounts and credit lines, etc., will be backed with gold again.
Is the world going to switch to the gold standard? What do you think it's doing all this time, the decade that is seeing gold reserves being grown by individuals and national banks?
BTW., the transition will be sudden and abrupt. Nobody wants "an orderly decline" - once you realize that the value is gone, and it's all going down and not up in real terms, why would
Yes you will (Score:3)
Your describing a situation where trust is lost. If trust is lost, how does the merchant know you really have gold in the vault? For that matter, even if you bring gold to the merchant, how does the merchant quickly test to ensure the gold is 100% pure and has not been cut with some other metal, or that your gold is not just gold plate? The modern world requires trust. A breakdown of which will result in anarchy. Food/water/guns will be much more valuable than gold.
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You are mixing up ideas.
Food and guns are products - wealth. Gold is money.
Gold is easily tested to be either pure or it's in coins, which are recognized and also can be tested easily (that's where the term 'acid test' comes from). [lacywest.com] Large bars are normally tested with ultrasound, as density of gold is precisely known, and so are densities of other metals, it's what they do in banks.
However this is not needed if you simply hold an account in a bank, that would have your account backed with gold, you'd hav
We will have to agree to disagree (Score:2)
I plan on building up a horde of gas, food, guns and ammo, hopefully before anarchy takes firm hold. Good luck with the gold.
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Gold is a commodity, not a currency.
It totally breaks fractional lending. Gold is just gold, nothing magic about it. Monetary use of gold artificially raises its value and hurts the real economy. Now other less good materials have to be used in its place.
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I agree with you on this though.
I agree, because first: those things are useful in case of things taking a bad turn and second: those things will go up in price, especially in USA.
However the more logical conclusion is to convert whatever you have into real money and skip the destruction altogether and leave.
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Free silver, 16 to 1!!!
And no, you will NOT crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.
Now please stand for Our National Anthem, as performed by the Claytonsburg Cornet Band.
Re:what's the difference? (Score:4, Insightful)
and what value does shiny yellow metal have besides the ability to get you laid if you use real money to buy it for hot women?
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why, is getting laid by hot women not good enough for you? Anyway, here is something to start with [youtube.com].
Women are not as dumb as some would believe - they don't take fake money, they require the real deal, and screw the 'legal tender', which has to be accepted just because politicians say so.
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Sure there is.
Money is a store of value, unit of account and medium of exchange.
Fiat is the last thing that can do any of that, whenever it rises, it eventually falls. The thing holds value relative to other commodities (barring changes in production output) is gold.
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Gold's value is also arbitrary, just a little more stable. It has value only because people have historically desired gold; if all of a sudden people were to decide gold looked ugly, I think you would start to see that it doesnt really have "intrinsic value" other than its use in semiconductors and fillings.
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Gold has actual value in our physical world, learn why. [youtube.com]
As to the value of it being 'arbitrary' - however the relative value is decided, it's stable.
2003: 1 ounce of gold was USD350, one pound of cotton was USD50.
2011: 1 ounce of gold over USD1500, one pound of cotton over USD200.
Notice anything?
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I noticed that the video just describes gold as being ideal in past millennia for carrying around in one's pocket and minting into coins, which seems like a pretty ridiculous reason for declaring it to be "real money." Paper fiat currency is even better for carrying around, so by this metric it's clearly superior now that we have printing presses.
Right? Or is it possible that the video is just a pop historical discussion irrelevant to your point?
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Notice anything?
Yes, both of the commodities that you cite are part of the Goldman-Sachs commodity bubble caused by the US government relaxing the rules on futures trading.
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Funny, GS is not interested in having real money - they benefit immensely from US Fed printing and US Treasury buying, they are the front runners in that scheme. They benefited greatly from the housing bubble, that the US gov't inflated with cheap money, FHA, Freddie/Fannie, which caused the lax lending standards all over the place and allowed banks to repackage and securitize the terrible loans and mortgages because of the gov't guarantee.
No, GS is really not interested in 'gold bubble', they are trading u
Re:what's the difference? (Score:4, Interesting)
You are way off base on the number of reasons why gold is money and would have been money if it all had to play out over again
found the full version [npr.org].
0. It cannot be printed by politicians to buy elections.
1. It's rare, but not too rare.
2. It's easy to test (chemically or with ultrasound for thick bars).
3. It's easily recognizable.
4. It has no major industrial use.
5. It does not change over time, drop it in the ocean, recover it centuries later and it's the same.
6. Easy to work with (easy to split, melt, mint coins, etc.)
7. It's stable, it does not explode, it's not a poison, not radioactive, not a gas, does not corrode, does not decay radioactively.
8. People like it, it looks nice.
Point is those ARE intrinsic values. Saying they are not is like falling into the homunculus theory of mind fallacy, where you expect things to be reduced forever, and this infinite regress would not answer the question of what is really your mind vs what is the observer. We are physical beings, not spirits, we live in physical world, and things we value are physical because they allow us to get things we need for survival.
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So then gold has no intrinsic value because you say it it has no intrinsic value for you.
Very clever. (golf clap)
Now, the rest of the world would like to deal with reality, without the clever word games.
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you are in a mental trap, the kind of trap people fall into when they argue for the homunculus mind theory: what is mind, if the external signal are just observed by it, so something has to be inside you to observe the signals, but it's not 'you', it has to be reduced further into infinity.
Things do have intrinsic value, as people need to survive. So wealth are those things: food, energy, clothing, medication, etc.
Money is not in itself one of those things, it is the store of value, medium of exchange and u
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Actually, it does have intrinsic value.
1) It's pretty much corrosion-proof, so it makes a great plating on electrical connectors.
2) It has no taste, unlike other metals, so it makes a great plating on silverware for professional food tasters.
Of course, these two uses alone aren't exactly going to make it super-valuable...
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well, sure. But you are again, mixing terms. Cotton is a raw material - product, it's wealth. Gold is money. In some cases cotton can be more useful than gold: socks have cotton in them for example, you won't use gold for socks. But you can buy socks with gold.
With fiat you will buy less and less cotton over time, as fiat is printed by politicians, but with gold you'll buy at worst the same amount and hopefully if cotton production is increased, you'll get more for the same amount of gold tomorrow once tha
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I thought you were a little off until I read this comment.
Cotton is a raw material, that went up 300%
Gold is a raw material, that went up 650%.
You say that gold will keep buying the same amount or more. Without any justification for that. Other than "gold is money".
You have no clue that the price of gold, just like cotton and any other raw material, is determined on the open market. You might want to google for the historical price of gold - specifically looking at 1981-1983 timeframe where the price of g
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2003: gold 350, cotton 50. 2011: gold 1500, cotton 200. The ratio holds. The price in USD goes up by x4. That's a better justification than 'gold is money'.
The prices in fiat currencies are determined in open market, and the market says that fiat is garbage.
As to 1981 - Volcker was a hero, really. Pushed the interest rates up to 18 or more percent, didn't he? Gold started at 35 in 1971 (well, that was the artificial price) and then it ended up in 250-350 territory until the nineties, when it started going u
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gov't can do whatever it wants actually, the people are getting rid of the fake money, that the gov't is printing, and eventually the gov't WILL have to sell their reserves, as gov'ts will become totally insolvent, and the welfare state mentality will force the reserves to be sold to keep the welfare flowing for yet another day.
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I think you would start to see that it doesnt really have "intrinsic value" other than its use in semiconductors and fillings.
Nope. There's other and better filling materials out there, namely the white resin stuff that's light-cured that they've been using for the past decade or so. The only reason gold is still used for fillings is because some (not a lot) people think it looks cool. Most people prefer their teeth to look like normal teeth. So the filling thing is exactly the same as people liking gol
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Gold is a somewhat uncommon soft metal. It has several properties which make it useful as money, but there's nothing about it that makes it "real money". As with all other commodities, its price has gone up and down relative to other commodities. Viewed as a useful metal, its price is likely inflated precisely because pe
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If you can't put it into words, your video isn't going to help.
If they'd actually moved in lockstep between those two points, you might have something. Though I don't see how it would be any better at proving gold was money than that cotton was money.
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What do you mean 'I can't put it into words'? [slashdot.org]
What I don't want to do, is repeat the same thing 20 times over.
If they'd actually moved in lockstep between those two points, you might have something. Though I don't see how it would be any better at proving gold was money than that cotton was money.
and that's why you should go read the link I just posted in this comment in the first paragraph, it will explain to you what money is.
People see Federal Reserve Notes as money too.
- well, sure, but that's not money that can keep value and keep existing, it will be destroyed by the politicians, who print it.
What's bad about it, is that once it's destroyed, as in once people lose all faith in it completely, then it won't matter how much of it exi
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And where is this fantasy land you are talking about that doesn't tax your work and/or crash the value of the currency?
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1. Wealth is production capacity, money is gold.
2. There are enough countries in the world now, that are doing the right thing, lowering taxes, becoming more business friendly. USA is not one of them.
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Why is wealth gold? What property does gold possess, in and of itself, that makes it valuable?
Put another way-- WW4 has just happened, all the worlds economies have crashed, the US is in a state of anarchy, and everyone has to fight to survive. Whats more valuable now, a hunk of gold, or a rifle? How bout gold, or a loaf of bread?
Looks like you might as well declare that "french loaves are real money"; its just as arbitrary, and makes a good deal more sense.
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Start saving your bottle caps now...
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How much gold does it take to buy a loaf of bread?
- depends where you are, but somewhere around 1/1500 to 1/350 of a troy ounce per loaf is a good price range depending on where you live, I suppose.
For that matter, where can you buy a loaf of bread with gold?
- anywhere they take a credit card of a bank card?
And how do you measure out that small an amount of gold?
- you don't. You transfer gold credits.
Banks used to issue actual notes - pieces of paper fully backed by an amount of gold written on them. That's how you use gold for trade without carrying the heavy stuff around.
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Well, I build products and provide services as well, I'll take gold any day over any currency of any country. Now, your gov't makes it illegal to not accept legal tender and it creates various artificial boundaries to using real money, namely capital gains tax, which is unfairly taxing any increase in gold's value relative to your fiat currency, even though the only reason the gold's value in your currency is increasing is the inflation.
So by trying to avoid inflation, you become somebody to take advantage
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Wealth isn't production capacity, wealth is assets. They don't even have the same units; the former is an amount (measured in money), the latter is an amount per unit time, e.g his net worth is X, he earns Y per month.
If wealth is length, production capacity is velocity, and money is a ruler.
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Assets and money (gold) are capital.
Production capacity is wealth. A wealthy economy, is economy that produces everything that people need and the prices are as low as possible based on the current maximum level of technology.
Economy that is poor, is economy that cannot provide its people with most of what they need.
By this definition the US economy is poor, as USA does not have production capacity to provide for its population's needs.
Wealth is all about production.
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2. There are enough countries in the world now, that are doing the right thing, lowering taxes, becoming more business friendly. USA is not one of them.
Care to name any? Are any of them places where civilized people would actually want to live? I'll bet Mexico has lower taxes than the US too, but only a fool would pack up and move there with all the corruption, violence and lawlessness going on there now.
In my observations, the countries that are generally nice to live in, with very low corruption (esp. a
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I don't know if anybody wants to live in Lucerne, I don't mind though, but maybe I am not civilized enough.
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I really shouldn't respond, but I can't resist. By 'real money' do you mean gold? Gold is only good for trade since we all agree that it is worth something. This is the same reason that money printed by governments is worth something: we all agree that it is. Gold is in the middle of a huge bubble right now. If it were traded like a normal commodity it would be worth way less. Once people stop being so paranoid it is going to crash hard. Also, since it is constantly being mined, it too is constantly
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Psh, forget gold and its various properties.
A herd of cattle is real money. You can eat them. You can make clothes from them, make shelter from them. They make cow patties to make fire. They reproduce, to make more of themselves. Sounds like they have gold beat.
A few hundred years ago in this country you couldn't get a wife with a chunk of shiny rock, but a few cattle? Now we're talking.
The properties of gold made it convenient. It didn't make it have any intrinsic value.
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A herd of cattle is real money
- no, you should pay attention to this thread if you are going to reply in it. [slashdot.org] Your cattle is wealth.
Gold is money.
Cattle is not money, it's not suitable to be money, but you can barter with it, the problem will be setting a price that makes any sense relative to other things.
Money is store of value (cattle is not really, once you eat it, it's gone). It's possible to use cattle as store of value, but much more difficult, especially if you want to be able to move (be mobile).
Money is unit of account - try
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If I had $200k in stolen money I was trying to hide, I'd put it in Bitcoins. No, really, I would.
Then I'd sell those Bitcoins over the course of a month or two, via wire transfer to a bank in the Turks & Caicos.
Then I'd move to the Turks & Caicos :)
Re:How to rob a bank (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong
1. Join Bank Management
2. Pay yourself a bonus every time the Bank gives a loan
3. Loan out all the banks money, and when that runs out, borrow more from other banks and lend that money out in turn.
4. PROFIT! (Beyond your wildest dreams)
5. When the bank goes bust, ride away into the sunset with a handsome golden parachute.
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He'd have access to the money box inside the machine, thus bypassing the sensors. Open it up to count the money, slip a few $20s out and replace them with a few fakes; as long as the money count comes out right when the next serviceman comes to check the ATM, nobody would know the difference... and if they eventually found the fakes it'd just look like some bank customer(s) had passed the fake $20s to the machine.
However, if the machine should have been able to detect the forgeries, that might be one thing