Facebook Spammer Fined $360 Million 135
An anonymous reader writes "Facebook has been awarded $360,500,000 in damages against spammer Philip Porembski, who phished the login details of at least 116,000 Facebook users and sent more than 7.2 million spam messages to victims' online friends. Facebook claimed it received more than 8,000 complaints from users as a result of the spam campaign, and more than 4,500 users had deactivated their accounts."
wrong plaintiff (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:wrong plaintiff (Score:4, Insightful)
Facebook is getting paid $80,111.11 for each deactivated account. I estimate that $0 will be passed along to those that deactivated their account.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:wrong plaintiff (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Due to a cashflow situation I'm willing to sign up to Facebook and you will receive 20% of the value!!! That's right, just send me $80,000 and I'll sign right up, and then send you $16,000!!!!
Everyone's a winner!
(Please no
Re:wrong plaintiff (Score:5, Insightful)
They won't pass along any of it because they're not likely to get an appreciable portion of that sum from the defendant. Do you really think the average spammer has $360M stashed away somewhere?
Re: (Score:3)
because
So, are you proposing that if the damages were hypothetically paid, the victims would get more than $0?
Re: (Score:3)
Well, no, probably not. Just that Facebook's unlikely to see much (if any) of the money in the first place, so it's a bit of a moot issue.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes they do, but the question is whether or not they'll risk arrest for wire fraud by coughing it up.
Re:wrong plaintiff (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
I agree, these amounts are meant more for deterrents for future cases then reality today. In actual fact, the dude is going to declare bankruptcy and have a clean slate.
Re: (Score:2)
Since when can you declare bankruptcy on a court judgment?
Re:wrong plaintiff (Score:4, Insightful)
And how much of that are Facebook passing along to the actual victims?
Don't you get a free online photo storage/sharing messaging service that includes a chat messenger and highly functional plugin-like apps/games?
Security is not absolute, and surely they do not take the attacks lightly, but I'm not sure how/why someone should GET money when they've paid nothing into the system (aside from personal information that they willingly released for use/resell).
Re:wrong plaintiff (Score:4, Insightful)
highly functional plugin-like apps/games
Wow, sounds like Facebook has really changed a lot since I last checked.
Re: (Score:1)
Don't you get a free online photo storage/sharing messaging service that includes a chat messenger and highly functional plugin-like apps/games?
"Don't you get an advert-supported photo storage/sharing messaging service that includes a ridiculously buggy chat messenger and vaguely functional plugin-like apps/games that are one of the main security issues in the first place?" Fixed.
Re: (Score:3)
No. I pay for it by having to see ads and having any personal information I use on said service sold to third parties. And not only is it not free but I would hardly call it "highly functional" either.
Re: (Score:1)
You 'pay' nothing. I think you've got a pretty skewed view of what your relationship with facebook really is. You don't have to see the ads, its your choice; and your viewing (or lack of looking) is completely compulsory. Why would facebook owe you any money in this case since you've invested no money of your own into their business, received services in a relatively free sense, and their free services were lightly compromised.
Re:wrong plaintiff (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have to look at the ads? Where's the option to turn them off, then? I can't seem to find the setting... Yeah, yeah, I know, adblock.
It isn't about why facebook owes anybody any money. Facebook wasn't the victim. Facebook was not compromised. It shouldn't have received the settlement in the first place.
Re: (Score:2)
I use adblock, but you can also use SELF CONTROL and simply not look at that which you can generically identify from the periphery as an advertisement.
Remember, you choose to be on facebook and you choose to offer up your personal info for the simple compensation of a 'service' that they provide. Surely they also can't guarantee that service, which is likely in their TOS.
And on the note of Facebook being a victim, I believe they were. Their site was hacked, people closed out accounts, and it gave them bad
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, ok, so it isn't free then.
No it wasn't. User accounts were compromised by fooling the users. There was no security hole in the site itself. The users themselves were "hacked".
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, when you're account is deactivated and you're not using it, you're not "paying" for the service, so you couldn't claim any loss.
Re: (Score:2)
"Don't you get a free online photo storage/sharing messaging service that includes a chat messenger and highly functional plugin-like apps/games?"
In exchange for $80,000 worth of my data? You're right. Awesome deal, just not for me.
Re: (Score:2)
And Personal information IS money. If it weren't, there wouldn't be a Facebook in the first place.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If I put my money in a bank, I don't pay the bank to keep it.
Yes you do. Banks don't take people's money out of the goodness of their hearts, how do you think they make any profit?
Re: (Score:2)
Nope, I only get spam from Facebook.
Re: (Score:2)
Nope, I only get spam from Facebook.
If that is the case and you're a facebook user, you should quit offering up your personal information to get spam. From your sentiment you should close your account immediately....
Methinks you're actually overplaying what you don't like and not acknowledging why you're actually on facebook.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not on Facebook...cancelled my account more than a year ago.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Facebook is the victim. They lost some users which results in fewer eyeballs for them to sell to advertisers. Plus the cost of dealing with the complaints and the PR damage (yeah yeah it's Facebook like they have any PR left to damage).
Other people are free to pursue their own lawsuits against that individual (of course there's any money that might have been available to collect isn't anymore...) if they believe they have been damaged by that individuals actions.
Re: (Score:2)
PR damage isn't lost money, so i already said that.
Re: (Score:2)
you're an idiot.
Re: (Score:3)
How much of that do you think Facebook will actually collect? They'll be lucky to get $360 out of the guy, let alone $360 million.
More importantly... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Wrong plaintiff? Wrong defendant!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And how much of that are Facebook passing along to the actual victims?
The same amount that Facebook's victims er, users are paid for the use of their personal data and materials uploaded to Facebook.
Awarded damages for what? (Score:5, Funny)
Facebook accounts go high these days (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
That's what I was thinking too.
The value of the personal information that people are putting on FB is worth, on average, $80k.
That's the real story here and it should send chills down your spine.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Facebook accounts go high these days (Score:4, Interesting)
"So each Facebook account is worth 80,000 dollars? Well who wants to buy mine?"
I can offer you a pirated Britney song, it's abut the same value.
It's not yours to sell. (Score:2)
Your Facebook account is owned by Facebook. Facebook invested financial resources to develop it, and they have a financial interest in maintaining it.
If you consider that this continuous revenue stream may last the rest of your life, the value doesn't sound so unreasonable (they will likely make tens of thousands of dollars in advertising revenue during that time). If they charged you $100/year for an advertisement free service, you'd probably end up paying them around $6,000.
Furthermore, the $300,000
Fined? Huh? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
If you don't pay your civil debts you can be jailed. This is the likely end of the situation.
No debtors prison in America (Score:4, Informative)
If you don't pay your civil debts you can be jailed. This is the likely end of the situation.
In America you only go to jail if you REFUSE to pay a civil judgment and get a contempt of court citation.
If you CANNOT pay there's no prison.
Otherwise OJ Simpson would've been in debtor's prison shortly after the Ronald Goldman civil verdict appeals were exhausted.
It's not unheard of for people to make themselves "legally broke" to escape seizure and "legally very low income" to escape garnishment the rest of their lives (or until that state's limit on collecting judgments expires) after a civil judgment, much to the chagrin of whoever got the judgment against them.
Re: (Score:2)
I appreciate the insight. I know of people who have served jailtime for not paying, but I didn't know it was obligate to REFUSING as opposed to inability. Now I know more.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
The GP got it a little wrong, actually.
The people you know of probably got jailed for ignoring a court order to show up to a debtors exam. Once you get a judgement against you and the creditor is unable to collect on the judgement, the creditor can ask the court to force you to answer questions about your assets (cash, real estate, cars, boats, RVs, investments, etc.). This is so that the creditor can find stuff to seize to satisfy the debt. This is a court order requiring you to show up and answer these
Re: (Score:2)
thanks.
Re: (Score:2)
> ...the spammer can essentially laugh off a civil monetary award.
Nonsense. The ruling empowers Facebook to forceably seize any of his property they can lay hands on, get liens on real estate, and get court orders requiring banks to transfer his accounts to them. He will be forced to file a petition for bankruptcy.
> All this does is prevent him from inheriting anything from his parents.
Where did you get that idea?
Re: (Score:2)
His bank accounts are long since empty and properties have been hidden. The guy's a scammer, he scams for a living. Getting sued was part of the business plan from the beginning.
When you have judgments out against you, and you have zero assets, one thing they can do is wait years until you get an inheritance, and then legally take that.
Re: (Score:1)
Well... (Score:1)
"more than 4,500 users had deactivated their accounts." ...Every cloud has a silver lining.
Re: (Score:2)
from the and-nothing-of-value-was-lost department...
ONLY 4500 of the 116 000 accounts. (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
"more than 4,500 users had deactivated their accounts." ...Every cloud has a silver lining.
How much is $360 million in Pounds?
Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:1)
Stupid Court System (Score:3, Interesting)
$360million is a meaningless number which accomplishes nothing. $8,000 would actually have an impact. I'm with the Republicans on this one, tort reform is long overdue.
Think of the Children of the poor Lawyers (Score:1)
They'll get 99.9999% of anything that this spammer coughs up. After all, they have to feed & clothe their poor offspring.
My heart bleeds for them
Yeah, I got screwed by a lawyer.
Come the revolution, the first up against the wall will be the lawyers.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
$360million is a meaningless number which accomplishes nothing. $8,000 would actually have an impact. I'm with the Republicans on this one, tort reform is long overdue.
Yep, an $8000 fine for 7.2 million spam messages *would* have an impact. It would demonstrate that there's no punishment for doing it, and ENCOURAGE IT.
Funny how the same fucks who are always whinging about "tort reform" are typically screaming about how we need to be "tough on crime" with uber-long sentences. Apparently, doing crime only counts if you're unfortunate enough to not be rich.
Re: (Score:2)
Funny how the same fucks who are always whinging about "tort reform" are typically screaming about how we need to be "tough on crime" with uber-long sentences. Apparently, doing crime only counts if you're unfortunate enough to not be rich.
This award is more akin to sentencing a person to 100 consecutive life sentences, but they don't have to start them until they walk to the prison... It's a huge judgment without any teeth to really enforce the judgment.
Re: (Score:3)
The guy doesn't have $8000, he probably is still living in his mom's basement. But it's low enough that he would still have to deal with it, and not so high that it's worth declaring bankruptcy. The pain of having to pay the fine while loudly claiming innocence would be a deterent. But $360M is high enough to interfere with his ability to go straight, and unreasonable enough for him to continue feeling like he did nothing wrong.
Re:Stupid Court System (Score:4, Insightful)
> 360million is a meaningless number which accomplishes nothing.
It bankrupts the spammer.
> $8,000 would actually have an impact.
That might not bankrupt him.
> I'm with the Republicans on this one, tort reform is long overdue.
Aside from the fact that "tort reform" is an insurance industry con, this has nothing to do with it. The suit was brought under a Federal statute which fixes the damages. "Tort reform" is about product liability and malpractice torts.
Uh huh...they'll get their money... (Score:1)
Spammer: So....how would you like that..a check? IOU? How about I pay you in email accounts for it?
Good luck getting that judgment.
In the meantime, someone wrongfully gets sent to prison and once exonerated, only receives an award that is a fraction of that amount.
*sigh*
Jail the jerk (Score:4, Insightful)
Put this bozo in prison for a LONG time. Gitmo his ass. He deserves it. We (the tech community) must clean up the spammers, hustlers, and criminals on the internet. If we don't (and no one else will or can do it) then no one will take us seriously and OUR vision of what the internet is supposed to be will be overruled by lawyers, global corporations, and their goon squads.
It is unlikely that this asshole actually has $360,000 to pay the fine. And he committed a serious wide-ranging crime of fraud. So, yes, put this jerk in jail for a long time. Or at least as long as the feds would put a college student in hard jail for selling a little bag of bud to another college student. Which is a long time.
Re: (Score:2)
Oblig simpsons (Score:2)
That's 360 MILLION not thousand...
Lisa : Sorry Dad..
Homer (from hospital bed) : It's ok honey... we just could have really used that $12,000
Lisa : Um.. dad, 10 percent of 12 Million isn't 12 thousand... its....
Re: (Score:1)
Yes, well, just as long as you consider Facebook as a willing accomplice in something that got a little out of control. Surely no harm was intended :/
Re: (Score:2)
I accept your compromise. Stick him in a cell with Zuckerberg for the next 100 years.
Done.
Re: (Score:1)
Put this bozo in prison for a LONG time. Gitmo his ass. He deserves it. We (the tech community) must clean up the spammers, hustlers, and criminals on the internet. If we don't (and no one else will or can do it) then no one will take us seriously and OUR vision of what the internet is supposed to be will be overruled by lawyers, global corporations, and their goon squads.
Be careful with that attitude. That's exactly what leads to the worst abuses you see in police departments.
It's probably tempting for an
Think harder (Score:1)
Did you know that the US already has the highest rate of incarceration in the entire world? Are you aware that the vast majority of prisoners in the US are non-violent and pose no threat to anybody?
Do you realize how much money and power a system like this justifies for the elite who run the business of government?
There's a reason why every year government costs more than the year before, and commands more power over the people than the year before. A legal system heavily biased towards incarceration is a k
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Glad he lost, but... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Always with the black and white. 4500 user left, 8000 users complained, many more were probably pissed. A company's reputation is often worth more than many of its individual clients.
Did 50% of BP's market cap evaporate because a few hippies will now no longer buy their petrol? Or was it due to the brand name as the greenest oil company being tainted? Certainly wasn't due to lack of profits, they are posting them again already.
Re: (Score:2)
Pulling the BP card seems to h
Re: (Score:2)
That's how many they lost, it doesn't cover all the other users that were just angry, annoyed or lost trust in Facebook and use it less. Nor does it cover the loss of reputation that they had with the user base in general or potential new users. Those were 4500 disgruntled users who'd probably tell ten times as many to stay away. Maybe the damages are not $360 million but they're probably bigger than you think.
Anyway, so what if he can't pay? Does it matter if that's the actual damage you've caused? For exa
Re: (Score:2)
$360 million dollars is a laughable joke. It might as well have been $360 trillion. This guy will never pay even 1% of that amount
Hey now, we're talking about a real person, not a corporation or an uber-rich super citizen. There's a chance he'll pay something.
Re: (Score:2)
The "justice department" had nothing to do with it. A Federal judge made the award on the basis of a law enacted by Congress which specifies statutory damages.
Its not anyone will get any money (Score:2)
Even facebook wont get a dime out of this, but I would bet that asshole wont be in the spam business anymore.
Where's my 80,111 dollars? (Score:2)
In soviet russia, face books you!"
That doesn't even make sense... Yes, I know.
What the hell? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Statutory damages: I hate spammers but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Wait a second (Score:1)
Why doesn't Facebook give the money thus awarded to the people who actually got their accounts hacked ? Isn't it up to Facebook to compensate the users?
But the again, Facebook is run by greedy bastards... oh ok no surprise there then
Re: (Score:1)
If I was him... (Score:2)
I wouldn't pay...
Fine exceeds Total Cash on Hand (Score:2)
This is like saying the man who spit on your million dollar Lamborghini owes you 500k because your car doesn't look as nice as it did last week.
Re: (Score:1)
In liability
Re: (Score:2)
Statutory damages, like those for copyright infringement. The law specifies the amount to be awarded for each violation without regard to actual damage.
Yea! (Score:1)
How to pay?!? (Score:1)
That's one big Twinkie. (Score:2)
Facebook is asking for $360,500,000 in damages because 4,500 users deactivated their accounts. That puts the value of a single Facebook account at just over $80,000.
Mark, if my "spam_from_facebook@" email and my home address ("1060 West Addison") were worth that much to you, you didn't need to set up a giant web site to get them. Just write me a cheque and I'll send you all of that along with a few more details of my made-up life.
Facebook source of profits! (Score:2)
I always did wonder what the facebook strategy for making money was, I now understand: implement hopelessly secure systems and sue those who break in.
Brilliant - I just wish that I had thought of that!
Pedantry (Score:2)