DHS Seized Domains Based On Bad Evidence 235
An anonymous reader writes "Back over Thanksgiving, the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement unit (ICE) made a lot of news by seizing over 80 domain names. While many of these involved sites that sold counterfeit products, five of the domains involved copyright issues. Four of them involved hiphop-related blogs — including ones that hiphop stars like Kanye West and others used to promote their own works, and the last one was a meta search engine that simply aggregated other search engines. Weeks went by without the owners of those sites even being told why their domains were seized, but the affidavit for the seizure of those five sites has recently come out, and it's full of all sorts of problems. Not only was it put together by a recent college graduate, who claimed that merely linking to news and blog posts about file sharing constituted evidence of copyright infringement, it listed as evidence of infringement songs that labels specifically sent these blogs to promote. Also, what becomes clear is that the MPAA was instrumental in 'guiding' ICE's rookie agent in going after these sites, as that appeared to be the only outside expertise relied on in determining if these sites should be seized."
Cops lie (Score:2, Insightful)
Cops lie. News AT 11. Cry me a river.
Expose the graduate (Score:3, Insightful)
I want to know the identity of this rookie college moron.
I also want to know which college trained him, so I can make sure to tell everybody to avoid that garbage establishment.
Next, since this was based upon false evidence, I want to see him, and those responsible for handling him, sued into oblivion.
This shit is getting to a breaking point.
Andrew T. Reynolds (Score:5, Informative)
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No, I want the EDITORS AND SUBMITTERS TO DO THEIR FUCKING JOB AND PUT THE RELEVANT MATERIAL IN THE GODDAMNED SUMMARY.
Is that really, really, really too much to ask for? Seriously? Is it too fucking much to ask that someone follow some basic rules of journalism?
Oh, wait, this is slashdot.
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Oh wow ... he signed it as "Special Agent". I wondered where all the special people went. I wonder if he knows the "Special" agent that bungled the telco seizure from last year in Dallas that Slashdot just recently duped on us.
Re:Expose the graduate (Score:5, Informative)
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There definitely should be an investigation.
Margaret A. Nagle, U.S. Magistrate Judge (Score:5, Informative)
You're an American citizen and you have the right to know who these people are that are making these decisions whether it be a judge or special agent. And they shouldn't have any fear of putting their name on these documents if they think it's right. I agree with you though that maybe it's not within their capacity to serve this position should they get something so painfully wrong.
I want countersuits and I want liabilities awarded to the defendants that rival the bullshit astronomical numbers that the court sends out to NASA for computation when the MPAA/RIAA wins. I hate that if the MPAA/RIAA wins it's eighty billion dollars but if the individual is exonerated it's a benjamin tops for having their webserver down. That is bullshit.
Re:Margaret A. Nagle, U.S. Magistrate Judge (Score:4, Funny)
You're an American citizen
I've no idea why you'd think that, but the British spellings in my posts might be a hint that I'm not...
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I dont see anyt
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I fail to detect any obvious clues from this thread that you're British. Perhaps your true colours are centred on some other postings?
Okay, you're spelling and grammers are swell, that's a clue your not American, but come on, you could have also been Jamaican or Canadian.
Canada FTW!
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Re:Margaret A. Nagle, U.S. Magistrate Judge (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure we're American citizens any more. I know this is not the country I grew up in.
I sometimes look around and wonder. Sometimes it feels like I'm the last American left.
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The judge failed to do his job, and so should be disbarred and possibly subject to other penalties.
Some trivia:
A Judge is "removed". A lawyer is "disbarred".
Judge is to job as lawyer is to status (relationship: "has a").
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The various police forces are expected to make mistakes on occasion
Letting the guy making the complaint define for you what is the law is more than a mistake, it's a philosophical aberration.
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also blame the higher ups who over saw this (Score:2)
also blame the higher ups who oversaw this but it seems in mass cases a few also go down useing very weak evidence now what with that rookie listed www.google.com
Re:Expose the graduate (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Expose the graduate (Score:4, Insightful)
That only applies to poor people, not cops, lawyers, judges, politicians, or corporations.
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I'm just wondering when DHS actually cared about evidence. I've never seen anything from that unpatriotic anti-American organization that would make me think it even approaches Constitutional (or moral).
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"You do understand... there are too many risks, related to what criminals could do if they got ahold of police officers' private real-life identity details."
I understand the right to face my goddamned accuser(s) and that includes people looking at evidence and saying "This is illegal." Do you NOT understand that? Your protections are BULLSHIT. You are putting people's life and livelihood on the line, you better put your fucking name and face to the WHOLE THING.
"Slander against his college?"
*ANY* respectable
Larger Scale Than One Agent (Score:5, Insightful)
The agent also said the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America, the trade groups for the major film studios and record labels, had confirmed that the music and movies on the sites had not been released with the authorization of their copyright holders.
Yeah, after some poking around I found PROTECTING U.S. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OVERSEAS: THE JOINT STRATEGIC PLAN AND BEYOND [ice.gov] presented to a House of Representatives committee. In it they talk about the sting and the lengthy history of their actions:
We worked with many different agencies - including CBP, DOJ’s Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section (CCIPS) and the Government of Mexico’s Treasury and Customs – and industry, including the Recording Industry Association of American (RIAA), to target importers and distributors of counterfeit goods. This operation was specifically timed to coincide with U.S. and Mexican consumers’ increased purchasing during the winter holiday season.
Then later:
Representatives from the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and RIAA assisted participating customs authorities with focused training, targeting and analyses of certain interdicted parcels. This operation was specifically timed by the IPR Center to coincide with the movie industry’s summer releases, when the biggest blockbusters are illegally recorded, reproduced on DVDs, shipped around the world and sold on street corners and in other markets.
There's plenty of interesting tidbits in this lengthy document about how everybody's getting involved -- even China [wired.com]:
ICE previously worked with China in September 2003 when ICE initiated Operation Spring, a joint IPR investigation by ICE agents and Chinese authorities that resulted in the extradition and conviction of DVD pirate Randolph Guthrie, who was sentenced to 48 months incarceration and ordered to repay $878,793 in restitution to the MPAA.
And the American sports associations:
Earlier this year, the IPR Center partnered with the NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA, industry and local law enforcement to conduct operations targeting counterfeit sports merchandise sold during the Super Bowl, NBA All-Star Game, Stanley Cup championship, and NCAA Final Four and Frozen Four tournaments. These operations resulted in seizures of over 14,000 counterfeit items valued at more than $760,000.
Personally I hope DHS and ICE get their asses handed to them over the music blogs. Turn that into freedom of speech and take those bastards to the cleaners. They aren't going to learn their lesson if this is just a court case that exonerates the defendant and I hope the defendants have enough cash to to fight back, or seek help from the EFF.
The frequency of these MPAA/RIAA related stings is really [ice.gov] ramping up [ice.gov]. I hope ICE and IPR aren't turning out to be directional attack dogs for corporations. The numbers on these things [ice.gov] seem a tad bit inflated but haven't they always been?
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How the hell can US justify $800k damages to the internationally extradited head of a DVD piracy ring, and $1.5M to someone for downloading a few MP3s?
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Well, lets see, from the affidavit...
RapGodFathers.com and RMX4U.com both had forum sections labeled "Bootlegs" and "Appz" with admin written descriptions stating they were for the posting of links to illegally shared content. So they were encouraging copy right violations.
Torrent-Finder.com appears to be entirely clear of any wrong doing based on what is in the affidavit. Every piece of "evidence" came from some other website and Torrent-Finder presented it as news without any editorial comment being n
Can you sue the FBI for damages? (Score:2)
Can I prevail on someone with a legal background to tell us whether you can sue the FBI for damages when they hurt your business due to negligence in their investigation (as in going off half-cocked)?
Whoops: DHS, not FBI. Same question. (Score:3)
Sorry. I mistyped. DHS, not FBI.
Re:Whoops: DHS, not FBI. Same question. (Score:5, Informative)
No, you can't sue the DHS, or the government in general, because of a most pernicious doctrine called "sovereign immunity." Since the government created the courts and endows them with legitimacy, you can't use its own courts against it, except in very limited circumstances. (It's like dividing by zero, sort of.)
However, if an agent of the government uses his/her position to commit a crime, you can sue the agent him/herself, but not their employer. (Of course, that's no guarantee that the suit won't get tossed, only that you can, in fact, proceed with it.) Also, if they use the apparatus of the government for purposes of racial discrimination, they can also be sued. But generally, no, you can't sue.
WIkipedia explains it in more detail: linky [wikimedia.org]
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My wife successfully sued a part of the DHS for failing to process her background check within the time period required by law. There was no discrimination or anything else like that, just a paperwork backlog. I agree that in the present circumstance a lawsuit would be unlikely to be successful, but I think "You can't sue the DHS....except in very limited circumstances" might be misleading as a generalization.
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However, if an agent of the government uses his/her position to commit a crime, you can sue the agent him/herself, but not their employer.
Even then, there are broad exclusions that protect certain federal employee classifications from lawsuits provided the harm was not caused by the employee's gross negligence. For instance, air traffic controllers (FAA employees) cannot be sued for their actions (for instance, here's an article [nytimes.com] about an air traffic controller that confused two aircraft and ended up killin
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Sometimes it even goes to the Supreme Court but not often, since the justices are part of the government and often defend their colleagues by simply not hearing cases.
That's about as spurious a claim as the DHS agent made. I suspect you'll get some hits with that kinda trolling though.
checks and balances? (Score:5, Insightful)
It appears they forgot the whole 'checks and balances' thing when enacting a powerful censorship law. I'm not even sure what the 'Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement' has to do with copyright enforcement.
But hey, already found a scapegoat, a 'fresh college graduate' who'll be labeled as over-zealous while those actually in charge zip by.
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I'm not even sure what the 'Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement' has to do with copyright enforcement.
If the items breaking copyright come from outside the US, the ICE in its "Customs Enforcement" role has a job to keep it out. Now, whether or not there was proper evidence (or even a bit of checking) before this raid occurred is certainly an issue, but the ICE does have the right (and perhaps the responsibility) to do this.
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Although what you said is true, the DHS was not created to have net censorship for copyright enforcement powers.
What is ICE doing? (Score:5, Insightful)
ICE's job includes enforcing laws regarding the immigration and hiring of aliens.
Lets see, Nicky Diaz, former housekeeper to Meg Whitman, admits on national television that she forged documents and is in this country illegally.
Many employers hire illegal aliens.
Millions of illegal aliens in the country.
States, have enacted their own laws because ICE is not doing its job.
But.....ICE can shut down sites that it thinks might be violating copyright law.
Yes, ICE can't do their job, but they can be given more responsibility.
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ICE has different groups with different responsibilities. The one you're talking about is Immigration (formerly INS). The one that this probably falls under is Customs (formerly U.S. Customs). They're different groups under a single organization.
Huh??? (Score:2)
Customs' duty is still to inspect and/block illegal/controlled items arriving into the USA through its borders.
How is a domain name or files located on a server pointed to a domain name crossing the border?
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Beats me, but this still is far more likely to fall under customs than immigration, which are still separate groups.
I hope FOX digs in here (Score:5, Interesting)
I really hope the Republicans make a civil rights issue out of this. Using Homeland security for copyright enforcement? Forget about the fact that they were incompetent, even if they had gotten this right it was way way out of line.
Re:I hope FOX digs in here (Score:5, Funny)
Filesharing leads to communism
Communism leads to extremism
Extremism leads to terrorism
Support your local Homeland Security today!
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I really hope the Republicans make a civil rights issue out of this.
LOL! You're a funny guy.
Wait. You were serious?
Oh, dear.
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Sure. Republicans frequently make civil rights issues when Dem presidents screw up.
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Yeah, but the law'n'order card trumps their desire to make Obama look bad.
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Did you notice that whole TSA thing a little while back?
Not with this president, they really hate him.
They might really hate anybody who's NOT (Score:3)
just like them (a died in the wool, brain-dead Republican,) but the TSA was created by Bush so they'll give it a pass. (After all, private jets or charters from small private airports aren't subject to searches.)
Re:I hope FOX digs in here (Score:4, Funny)
I really hope the Republicans make a civil rights issue out of this.
Yeah, I expect Fox to jump RIGHT on a story about corporations using the government to stomp on people. They'll run it right after the story calling for Shrub to stand trial for war crimes, before the bit about HELL FREEZING OVER.
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I really hope the Republicans make a civil rights issue out of this.
You must be new on this planet. Welcome to the circus!
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Not to worry! (Score:4, Funny)
They'll move him out of DNS management and over into drafting Network Neutrality regulation. What can go wrong?
Why are they so stupid? (Score:2)
What I want to know is why are the people behind these sorts of things so freaking stupid?
Ever since the MAFIAA started taking actions against pirates the stories of innocents being scooped up in the process have been rampant. Is the MAFIAA so ensconced in power that they really just don't give a shit? Do they believe that such errors pose no threat to their own legitimacy? Or perhaps anyone knowledgeable enough to discern the difference between the clear-cut pirates and the bystanders just isn't sympath
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Is the MAFIAA so ensconced in power that they really just don't give a shit?
Yes.
Do they believe that such errors pose no threat to their own legitimacy?
Yes.
Or perhaps anyone knowledgeable enough to discern the difference between the clear-cut pirates and the bystanders just isn't sympathetic enough to the MAFIAA to work with them?
Also yes.
Or maybe there are people within the ranks of the MAFIAA that disagree with the entire operation and deliberately set things up give their overlords a black eye?
Apparently lack of principles is a requirement for promotion over there, so I doubt it.
I dunno what it is, but you'd think that after 10+ years of this kinda of shit they would have figured out how to do it right.
Haha, that's a good one, pull the other one!
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Simple. They don't care.
If you're innocent, pay the thousands in court costs and missing time off, and fight it in court. Otherwise just pay the money and nobody is going to get hurt.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SLAPP [wikimedia.org] - related.
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If they can get away with this, they can expand, get more funding, get more arrests/body count/domain count? and grow.
If they dont, they have a 'young' person to offer up.
Try again next raid with new laws or better paper work.
They are testing the press and US public. Support terrorism, porn, DMCA hardware, now seized domains - all seems to be a long list of fair game.
What was once a long term
Anyone surprised? (Score:3)
We should clearly design some system where one has to be tried before one can be punished.
This is what happens when... (Score:2)
This is what happens when allegedly infringing websites are shut down without so much as a trial, and precisely the reason why laws like COICA are so dangerous. In court you at least have the chance to prove that your actions are not infringing, but in this case the owners of the shut down domains aren't given the chance to establish their innocence in court. If DHS says you're guilty, you're guilty.
Imagine if the same standard were applied to other alleged offenses. Posted something allegedly obscene? Down
Why the F**k is ICE involved in this? (Score:4, Insightful)
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"but before 9/11 they were primarily concerned with illegal immigrants"
There was no ICE before 9/11. There was no ICE before March of 2003.
INS is what you are thinking of, they were split up and all three parts were put under DHS along with taking on some new responsibilities.
Old INS != ICE.
Recent college graduate (Score:2)
with a very young 23 yo. baby-faced aide.
Strange how with all the cash, computer experts, total network dominance ect. the US gov still needed to fall back on the MPAA for help?
Then the rubber stamp comment, "most of the reasoning behind seizing the blogs is left out" - welcome to a digital East Germany.
Due process and an independent judiciary (Score:2)
Well this is exactly why the founding fathers tried to create due process and an independent judiciary, for dealing with domestic private properties and private persons. These actions clearly should have gone through the courts or at the very least an established agency review process were the owners could present evidence and testify if desired on their own behalf.
When executive fiat is used to act on individuals and private property there are always going to be these kinds of abuses.
ICANN (Score:2)
Attorneys, police, and judges are always going to try and do questionable things. The international root of the internet should not be so beholden to the US government, Move it to Switzerland, and put in place clear rules about what does and what does not constitute valid cause for removing a domain.
Or follow Peter Sunde's suggestion, and move it all to p2p. [geek.com]
Our tax dollars reducing their cost of business? (Score:3)
A private police force with public funding...quite a racket they've got going there.
The legal basis for the seizure (Score:4, Informative)
I found the affidavit to be pretty sound, and the evidence was fairly damming. I don't think this will ultimately stop the pirates, however, as a close study of the affidavit will give you all the ideas you need to run a pirate site that obeys the letter of the law, but not the spirit.
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Can't wait until the same heros are in charge of my healthcare. Oh wait, they already are...
Homeland Security and ICE are in charge of your healthcare? Really?
Re:Healthcare (Score:5, Funny)
Why else would the TSA be carrying out all those testicular cancer screenings at airports?
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Or prostate cancer screenings...
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And Health and Human Services is going to be any better?
The poster's point was one that people always seem to ignore. The same people who are disgusted with how one side of the government acts seem to want another part of the government to become more and more a part of our lives. It's as if we were talking about two different governments, Homeland Security and the TSA and Defense, who are evil and malicious, while being incompetent and bureaucratic. Then there is the other government which is there to
Re:Healthcare (Score:4, Insightful)
That's rather funny in terms of how it is written. It just isn't true the different agencies do have different personalities. There are huge differences between them. CDC is snobby and elitist but very accurate and open. FBI is technologically incompetent but hires great people. NSA has wicked cool toys but no sense or morality. Bureau of Labor Statistics aims for quality and predictability but is rather scared of congress. CIA is beset with internal infighting.
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> Yeah. The CDC has no political spin in their statements about evil, nasty, gonna destroy the world, flus that are almost as deadly as the normal one.
The word "pandemic" has a precise scientific meaning that appears to have been lost on you.
The flu (yes, that flu), has been known to kill lots of people on occasion. We're lucky that the mortality rate of the last few has been low, because it wasn't always that way. Worse, it was known to kill young & healthy people, it just didn't kill very many of
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In 1918 we had a flu go through the world. About a 1/5th of the world's population caught it and 50 million people died in a matter of months. In the USA it cut 12 years off the life expectancy that year, and 1/4 of the population got it.
That's what a flu can do that gets out of hand.
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I never understand that, people talk about the U.S. government as if it is this monolithic entity of pure intent and clear direction.
That isn't the government, it is not some implacable entity. It is a collection of various agencies and persons doing a variety of tasks for various reasons. By saying the government is evil, you include the department of Transportation (hint: maintaining the roads and signage), the post office, the FDA, FAA, CDC, and so on. Tell me how each is evil and/or powerhungry, please.
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And even if it were true, there are ways for the government to provide universal health care that do not involve the government controlling that care. For example, the government provided power for millions in the Tennessee Valley, but does not run TVA. They just paid the bill for getting the organization started. There's nothing preventing the government from similarly creating a nonprofit corporation for health care and leaving management in the hands of their board.
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Free trade requires only one sentence: "We will not use import tariffs or subsidies," and that's it.
No it doesn't. There are hundreds of mechanisms having to deal with bills of lading, inspection, taxation. Who is going to contacting whom. How duties will be collected.
And I wasn't asked for a complete list. I could throw in airline deregulation. Especially prior to 2001 airlines had become much freer over the previous 25 years.
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The interesting thing is that we shouldn't need laws to increase freedoms.
Under the original US system, freedom was something you were born with and it could only be taken or given away.
It's sad when a rhetorical statement concerning laws granting freedoms to already free people garners such debate on how much freedom was given.
Re:Healthcare (Score:4, Informative)
The law allowing gun carry in national parks.
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WAY off topic but.
Actually they are not in charge of health care. It is called regulations. The same kind that they used to have on the banks, before they removed them and it all went to hell. The same kind that used to be on CC and how much they could charge you interest, before they removed that then everyone got to see rates from 20% to 30%.
It is and only will be health insurance regulations. but you just keep on believing that its a take over and its all going to come out bad for you.
Start using your br
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The "they" that removed credit card interest rate limits was the supreme court.
Not exactly. What they did in 1978 was to make it permissible for the laws of the state where the lender was chartered to apply instead of those of the state the customer resides in.
Where they are:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/more/map.html [pbs.org]
General info:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/ [pbs.org]
Beware of credit of the last resort
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Card_(The_New_Twilight_Zone) [wikipedia.org]
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Are you saying that because some part of government is figuratively speaking stomping its boot on your chest, an other part, with different people, tasked with tending to your wounds, shouldn't even exist?
Even if that has merit, getting rid of the fascist bullies first would make sense to me.
Re:Healthcare (Score:5, Insightful)
The US government is a very large organization. It does a lot of different things. Some things it does well, other things it does badly. Some of the people who work for it do their jobs well, others do their jobs badly. Some types of people take some kinds of jobs, others take other types of jobs. There is no one "the government" doing everything the same way. Welcome to the real world.
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I wonder if it is just a different as you would imagine it to be. Certainly, other departments will have different cultures, and some of those may well be much more amenable to benevolence and competence, but simply by being in "the government" they can and do share certain characteristics with every other department.
Let's take the most obvious item: politics. No group in the government can avoid it, even if they are supposed to be "independent" in principle. It's not inconceivable that a reasonable heal
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If you're arrested by the ICE, then yes, they will be in charge of your healthcare. My guess is that's comparable to veterinary services on factory farms.
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Wait until there's a law that requires all Internet activity be made after logging into your ISP via some sort of government issued biometric scanner. As they say with driving; it's a privilege, not a right. As for all the problems that would cause? Suck it up cupcake! That's your problem, not theirs.
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AND they're in charge of Capital Punishment (where allowed) and other judiciary jobs... (And now I'm reminded of that German citizen who was arrested in Germany and sent to an Afghanistan prison, merely by having the same name as the actual target of the operation).
Sometimes "Oops" just doesn't cut it.
Perhaps Due Process needs to be revised to include more than what it currently does. And there needs to be a way to enforce it on the people in charge...
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"due process" originally meant a judge would review a search or arrest warrant, but the politicians have conveniently written the judges out of the loop. Now they (the cops/feds) can write their own warrants and enter your house or shutdown your website at will.
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Sometimes "Oops" just doesn't cut it.
You just have to resort to "9-11".
Or "think of the children", whichever seems more appropriate.
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Can't wait until the same heros are in charge of my healthcare. Oh wait, they already are...
Damn, these teabaggers are worse than roaches, just can't seem to get rid of them...
Re:What they are trying to do (Score:4, Insightful)
We are making their jobs difficult by insisting that they don't harm the innocent while trying to gather evidence against the guilty?
I'd say we are keeping them accountable.
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Their job is to protect us. Let's not make it anymore difficult.
What the hell is the ICE protecting me from? Bootleg copies of Kanye West?
Re:What they are trying to do (Score:5, Funny)
Have you listened to that stuff? You should be grateful.
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Obligatory outlink which is funny but relates to the topic at hand:
http://bash.org/?329292 [bash.org]
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I wonder if ICE likes fish sticks?
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Bootleg copies of Kanye West?
Yeah. I know they should protect us from all copies, but the bootleg imports were all they had jurisdiction over.
Net neutrality (Score:2, Insightful)
Yep. Sure can't wait for "net neutrality." The government is totally neutral in all things. Government regulation of the internet sounds like a fabulous idea. What could possibly go wrong?
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Usually to make those kinds of decisions I think you have to be on the supreme court.
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Yep. Then the corporations screw us no matter who we elect, and they do it DIRECTLY that way. Brilliant plan!
Just don't buy from them or associate with them. Say no. They have no recourse and no way to force you to do anything.
Try saying no to the government a few times and see how long you stay out of prison.
Everyone understands the difference. Even you. But you're dishonest.