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Underfunded NSA Suffers Brownouts 198

Posted by Zonk
from the war-on-terror-doesn't-include-juice dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Almost ten years after the an internal report, and a year after a Baltimore sun story warned that the electrical system at the fort Meade NSA HQ couldn't keep up with the growing electricity demand ... the problem has got worse. The 'NSA has had to resort to partial, rolling brownouts at its computer farms and scheduled power outages and some offices are experiencing significant power disruptions'. NSA director Alexander testified to congress about this problem. It is suggested he wanted to add more than $800 million to the 07 budget. A recent public powerpoint presentation suggested 70% of of all intelligence spending goes to contractors. It also included a graph, without numbers, of this spending. It suggests that US intelligence spending is around $60 billion. An internal survey that showed NSA employees have problems trusting each other."
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Underfunded NSA Suffers Brownouts

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  • can we get a 'haha' tag added?
  • by Colin Smith (2679) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @01:43PM (#19628811)
    Ah well, better get the printing presses running again.

     
    • by _Sharp'r_ (649297) <sharper@boo k s u nderreview.com> on Sunday June 24, 2007 @02:05PM (#19628951) Homepage Journal
      It sounds like the problem is a misallocation of funding, not underfunding.

      If you can power X equipment, then why bother to purchase X+Y equipment before you purchase more power capacity first?

      Having more equipment than you can power is a symptom of spending too much on equipment and not enough on power capacity. It says nothing about whether your total budget is too low or too high.

      Wait, I forgot, we're talking about a government agency. They just assume that any money they mismanage can just be used as justification for an additional funding demand the following year.

      Must be nice to be able to get more money because you totally screwed up spending the last round of funding. Too bad it's us giving them the money.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Martin Blank (154261)
        Their planning begins years ahead of time, often working on systems three generations beyond the ones that they're currently installing. Problems with designs can push power usage for a given system much higher than planned, and it can take time to get the power systems in place. NSA is a naturally paranoid agency; they take all of their information sources and know that someone else is looking at exactly those to analyze them, so they don't want anyone to know exactly how much power they're using because
        • Their planning begins years ahead of time, often working on systems three generations beyond the ones that they're currently installing. Problems with designs can push power usage for a given system much higher than planned, and it can take time to get the power systems in place.

          That doesn't matter. They're supposed to have some VERY smart people on staff there. For some reason they cannot plan for possible errors?

          NSA is a naturally paranoid agency; they take all of their information sources and know that s

    • Just outsource it to Google!
  • by gravos (912628) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @01:43PM (#19628813) Homepage
    I think they may have bought one too many $40,000 toilet seats. But this is a serious issue: These brownouts are affecting their ability to spy on us! Something must be done immediately or innocent men may go free.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by sgt_doom (655561)
      Regarding NSA and "underfunding" - a really crucial point us conspiracy nuts (i.e., informed and educated Americans who've taken - and passed - probability math) like to bring up:

      Immediately after the 9/11/01 attacks, the then-NSA directer, General Hayden (now CIA director), went before the US Congress requesting emergency funds. What were the top two expenditures of said funds? (This is public domain information and easily verifiable.)

      (1) More security guards, and

      (2) Hiring more polygraph examiner

      • Re:Toilet seats (Score:5, Informative)

        by jandrese (485) <kensama@vt.edu> on Sunday June 24, 2007 @03:40PM (#19629489) Homepage Journal
        Polygraph Examiners spend the great majority of their time giving polygraphs to people applying for security clearances. Since 9/11 the backlog on security clearances has skyrocketed as people got paranoid and started slapping "SECRET" and "TOP SECRET" labels on previously unclass projects. Also, many contractors saw the writing on the wall and pushed harder for all of their employees to get cleared so they wouldn't be out of the loop on new project opportunities.

        The security guards should have been obvious since all federal buildings stepped up their security after 9/11. There were tons of entrances that suddenly got a real live guard 24/7 where they used to have just a apeaker you would buzz in with after hours. There were also lots of parking lot entrances that got new guard shacks. The "cleaning house" theory doesn't seem the most likely explanation to me.
    • Re:Toilet seats (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AHumbleOpinion (546848) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @02:03PM (#19628935) Homepage
      I think they may have bought one too many $40,000 toilet seats.

      Regarding government overspending:

      1. If it was a zero G toilet seen and the production run was for a handful of space shuttles and a space station then $40,000 is probably a pretty good price. I suspect this is the source of the $40,000 urban legend.

      2. For "commodity" items you can not compare necessarily a military part with a commercial part even when they come off of the same production line, ie. we are not comparing a mil spec part, a radiation hardened CPU for example. Military parts often go through additional testing and this can greatly increase the costs due to a loss of economies of scale. In the field, when a military part is pulled from the box there is an expectation that it will work. In the consumer world it is often cheaper for a manufacture to replace defective parts than to test them. Expecting the customer to return to the store for an exchange is considered acceptable. Alternatively the acceptance standards may be higher. For example no dead pixels being allowed on a flat panel. This requires additional costs with respecting to screening a large batch and cherry picking individual items.

      3. I guess there is also the ever popular urban myth that they pad the price of some items in the public budget to hide spending on secret projects. ;-)
      • Re:Toilet seats (Score:5, Informative)

        by Deadstick (535032) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @04:06PM (#19629613)
        First, the sum trumpeted by Sen. Grassley in 1983 for the "toilet seat" was $640, not $40,000. Second, it was not a seat but a shroud for the toilet assembly, made corrosion-resistant because it was designed for Navy airplanes that are used near salt water -- in other words, it was a complete airplane bathroom enclosure. Not a bad price.

        Oh, and the actual seat was included.

        rj
      • usually in a government contract there is the cost price of an individual object in a project, and the cost of the fully completed project with overhead. government rules require a certain amount of itemization, and there are 2 ways to spread the overhead costs around. proportionally; so that each piece of the final product gets a percentage of the overhead cost, and flat rate; where a single percentage is applied to overhead costs, and spread equally across all pieces. the latter process is usually chea
      • by arodland (127775)
        You're grossly ignorant when it comes to the state of zero-G potty activities. There is no "seat" :)
      • The $40k toilet was possibly a NASA thing, but they also use that to hide black budgets. You don't want to publish how much you're spending on espionage or give any sort of detailed breakdown.
      • I agree but... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by LWATCDR (28044)
        Military purchasing is a nightmare. I work for a software company and one of the services wanted to buy our software. Okay fine how many do you you want. $200 copies fine we will even give you a discount on them...
        Yea right.
        First they spent a year testing it. This was none mission critical admin type stuff not a flight control system or anything. After the test they decided they like our software the best and wanted it but they had to put it out to bid. Well they tried to make it a single supplier for this
      • by dpilot (134227)
        I am not a government contractor, but I have worked on projects for which there was a "field returns program." When part(s) came back, we figured out what happened, why they failed in field, and how to make it never-happen-again.

        Which led me to think about weapons systems. Imagine a part which only needs to work for a few minutes, or maybe only a few seconds. Plus at the end of that short service life it destroys itself. No such thing as field returns.

        Which then let me to think about our "precision missiles
  • I wonder (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GreatBunzinni (642500) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @01:53PM (#19628879)
    I wonder how much of these problems are really due to lack of funding and how much are just tactics to yank an even bigger chunk of money from the guys in Washington. After all, the problems that they describe should only exist if the person in charge purposedly screwed up the budget.
    • I wonder how much of these problems are really due to lack of funding and how much are just tactics to yank an even bigger chunk of money from the guys in Washington.

      Yep. This is a problem that Congress could never verify, and it's a great way for the NSA to get a cool billion dollars when (at the moment) the NSA is extremely unpopular in front of a Democrat-kind-of-controlled Congress.

      I also *really* fail to see how a project like this could cost a billion dollars. Copper may be very expensive, and

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by afidel (530433)
        I assume this is for a total Datacenter upgrade. You rarely just upgrade the electric, you usually upgrade all the facility elements together since all the systems are usually designed with some kind of balance, eg you don't put in 200tons of AC for a 100ton electric load. Since commercial datacenter projects are running into the hundreds of millions I have no doubt that with typical government inefficiency a large datacenter project could run to a billion.
    • by TubeSteak (669689)

      I wonder how much of these problems are really due to lack of funding and how much are just tactics to yank an even bigger chunk of money from the guys in Washington.

      The problem isn't so much a current lack of funding as it was a lack of planning.

      If you RTFA, you'd know that these energy infrastructure problems are due to a complete lack of planning by the various Directors of the NSA over the last 9 years.

      Now of course, they're going to need a lot more money to resolve the situation than if they had planne

    • by fm6 (162816)

      After all, the problems that they describe should only exist if the person in charge purposedly screwed up the budget.
      Or if they were guilty of poor planning. It's not as if the Federal bureaucracy has a stellar record in these things.
    • by mpe (36238)
      I wonder how much of these problems are really due to lack of funding and how much are just tactics to yank an even bigger chunk of money from the guys in Washington. After all, the problems that they describe should only exist if the person in charge purposedly screwed up the budget.

      Of course if the budget is that messed up how can you tell if any extra money actually goes where it is neeed. It's quite possible that adding extra money means more "pork" with continuing underfunding...
  • Good.

    I hope they have more of these problems. They've proven themselves to be a complete waste of money, remember that whole terrorist thing on September 11th? $50 billion/year wasted on these bloated government agencies, abolish them now. And despite having all the resources in the world at their disposal they still managed to screw up the intelligence on Iraq. I am not impressed.

    I'm sure the CIA/NSA/DIA/DOA/etc all have very clever tic-tac-toe competitions against supercomputers and think up
  • by Colin Smith (2679) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @01:55PM (#19628891)
    This is why "the singularity" ain't going to happen.

     
  • New equipment for data processing, as well as some purchased for one of the agency's signature initiatives, the mammoth modernization effort dubbed Turbulence , are among those that have been held up, the senior official said. The lengths of the delays are classified.
    They may have a lot of power problems but at least they have good sense naming their projects.
  • by TodMinuit (1026042) <todminuit&gmail,com> on Sunday June 24, 2007 @01:58PM (#19628899)
    Okay, everyone around the NSA, turn on all your lights, computers, TVs, air conditioners, and appliances. Operation Dark Storm is a go.
    • I'd prefer operation 'Dinner Out' then ;)

      (for those who miss the clue: see a movie called 'Spy Game')
    • by elrous0 (869638) *
      I'm not mentioning any names here, but if a certain someone would stop leaving the refrigerator door open in the break room, maybe we wouldn't be having these problems.
  • by J.R. Random (801334) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @01:58PM (#19628907)
    Actually obey the Constitution. If the NSA wasn't doing illegal warrantless searches of every American using the telephone or internet it would need about half as many computers and half as much money.
    • by Joebert (946227)
      You know, you really do have a good point there.
    • Now there's an idea.

      Every government agency that is caught violating the rights of citizens should have the people in charge jailed without the option for presidential pardon and the agency's funding should be cut.

      I like it.
    • by Kozz (7764)

      If the NSA wasn't doing illegal warrantless searches...

      Hey. If you're not hiding anything, you've nothing to fear. Why do you hate America so much?

      [tongue firmly in cheek]

  • by RyanFenton (230700) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @02:01PM (#19628925)
    This doesn't sound like underfunding at all. It sounds like highly misappropriated funds going to prioritized sub-groups with an inherent motivation to see the other subgroups suffering and failing for the sake of their own relative gain. This is completely in keeping with the current administration's modus operandi of finding subgroups in organizations (lobbyists, regulators, etc.), that will play ball, and finding a way to eliminate or functionally undercut everyone else, then blame those who were undercut for the resulting general failure.

    Ryan Fenton
    • by TubeSteak (669689)

      This doesn't sound like underfunding at all. It sounds like highly misappropriated funds going to prioritized sub-groups with an inherent motivation to see the other subgroups suffering and failing for the sake of their own relative gain.

      Uhh... WTF?
      Did you RTFA?

      The NSA has known for at least a decade that they were going to have power problems in the future and the various Directors never bothered to set aside money in order to do something about it.

      In other words, this is a failure of leadership spanning ~

      • by RyanFenton (230700) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @03:02PM (#19629291)
        When an organization doesn't have enough money to do something, that is known as underfunding. When an organization _does_ have the money, but spends it inappropriately so they can't deal with the issues they are responsible for (including their own internal upkeep), then that is known as misappropriation.

        The NSA had the money they needed to deal with their infrastructure problems, but did not. Wasn't this the kind of cooperation and organizational problems the whole "post 9-11" reorganization efforts were intended to fix? I will not argue that it is a failure of previous administrations that this did not get fixed earlier - just that these exact kinds of deep organizational failures coming to a dramatic conclusion are exactly in keeping with this administration's practices so far.

        For a small sample of supporting evidence for my arguments, assertions and conclusions, see:

        The Republican War on Science (Book) [waronscience.com]
        Most of the recent works by John W. Dean (Several books) [amazon.com]
        One of many powerfully incisive books by George Lackoff [amazon.com]
        Countless other books, including these [amazon.com] ...and most political news appearing outside FOX news for the past 4 years.

        Ryan Fenton
        • by dbIII (701233)
          There's the third option - corruption where the money goes out to an unaccountable third party chosen due to their political motivations, personal connections or kickbacks. How do you think Wonder Woman's Golden Lariat (yes the lie detector was invented by that cartoonist) got to be used in US law enforcement at the time of Hoover? It's things like this that have made intelligence reports from the USA not paticularly credible for decades - private sector secret police are in my opinion a bad idea.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        This may be "a failure of leadership spanning ~10 years" because the problems were predicted nine years ago, but they didn't fly out of hand until after 2001; probably after Cheney ordered the NSA to start brute forcing its way through more keyspace than the rainfall in the Tennessee Valley can handle.
  • Scary! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by misleb (129952) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @02:06PM (#19628959)
    And the number one way you know you're being watched is...

    When the NSA can't even find enough electricity to power their surveillance and data processing equipment.

    Scary stuff.

    -matthew
  • It seems it would fit in, nobody would know it was there. Both the money and the power consumption would be hidden.
    And it could count toward the US build up without putting any extra service personal at risk.

    Sent to you from the UK, so the bright boys and girls at Fort Meade can take it as a suggestion.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24, 2007 @02:30PM (#19629109)
    As a graduate mathematician, I feel ashamed to see so many of my fellow students either going off to the City or to GCHQ (the UK's NSA); while it's true that the cryptanalysis work done by the latter is one of the few non-academic jobs requiring considerable "pure" mathematical skill, that's really not what the huge amount of money spent on infrastructure is for.

    Because the War on Terror/Evil Of The Day really isn't about challenging mathematical genius terrorists to ever more complicated ciphers - yes, GCHQ created RSA a few years before R, S and A, but occasionally beating open academia and having a lot more horsepower isn't ever going to put you beyond the mathematical principles you're faced with (*). Massive horsepower is for statistical analysis of insanely large quantities of data. This might occasionally find you something saucy, but it's mostly going to allow you to profile, and profiling reduces risk - past trends are a useful indicator of future performance, whether you're analysing a financial market or the behaviour of groups of humans.

    None of this will help if some random guy decides, tomorrow, to commit some nefarious deed involving an IED - something I'd say 90% of graduate scientists either have the knowledge to do, or could read up on overnight. Which goes to show that the reason everyone's not blowing everyone else up is not because there are any technological measures in place to stop them, but because by and large, for whatever reason, people don't want to.

    (Oh, and the NSA/GCHQ do have some obvious legitimate uses - such as decrypting messages between known ne'er-do-wells. If that's all they did, I might even like them.)

    Oh, and before people forget, the problem of whether the NSA is allowed to spy on Americans is easily solved in principle by GCHQ and NSA doing the dirty work for their friends across the pond; in practice, an extra-judicial agency couldn't care less anyway: he who is not accused (for there is no-one allowed to witness the crime), is not judged.

    (*) This is why I love my discipline. Men can only discover mathematics, never beat it!
    • by CptNerd (455084)

      (Oh, and the NSA/GCHQ do have some obvious legitimate uses - such as decrypting messages between known ne'er-do-wells. If that's all they did, I might even like them.)

      Well, you just lost all credibility with the Slashdot crowd with that statement.

  • Bake Sales! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rueger (210566) * on Sunday June 24, 2007 @02:33PM (#19629127) Homepage
    To paraphrase an old favorite,wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where daycares and hospitals had all the money they needed and the NSA had to hold a bake sale to buy servers?
    • by bmajik (96670)
      No.

      Becase Daycares are aggregately worse for children than staying at home with Mom, Dad, etc.

      Over 40% of the total household income of 2 earner families goes towards taxes. Let's shrink government taxation and waste, and then put mom or dad back at home where they can raise a happy child that isn't perpetually sick. It would cut way down on the number of kids being sexually abused, neglected, or whatever the problem of the day with disinterested-party childcare is.

      It'd also be nice if hospitals didn't eq
      • by grumling (94709)
        "Over 40% of the total household income of 2 earner families goes towards taxes. "

        Boo Hoo. Until they file their return. Deductions for children, mortgage interest, health savings accounts, etc. can really add up. Why do you think people refinance every few years?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Cosmic AC (1094985)
      Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where we didn't have to spend money on defense? We could use the money for other things, like gumdrops, and lollipops, and rainbows, and magical unicorns.
  • by cheros (223479) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @02:40PM (#19629169)
    Install a generator that can use contractors as fuel. Solves two problems at once :-)

    It has as beneficial side effect that it also reduces the amount of people leaning on healthcare, so everyone wins.

    The only challenge I can see is that you have to take into account the amount of alcohol these people consume. Any oven should be able to use the spontanous combustions that may occur. Maybe turning them into biofuel may be better.

    Sorry, heavy lunch :-)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24, 2007 @03:09PM (#19629321)
    There is no such thing as an intentional rolling brownout.

    A brownout is usually caused by a short or a transformer melting down which results in an under-voltage leading to a blackout. A brownout is when you still have electricity but it's not at the required voltage or power level.

    I think they mean rolling blackouts.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by aaarrrgggh (9205)
      Actually, a brownout is generally a loss of frequency due to system overloading. In the good old days of resistive loads, letting the voltage sag 10% would drop the power consumption by 20%

      With inverse-impedance equipment being the norm today (switch mode power supplies, electronic ballasts, and VFDs), a brown-out is much more likely to create localized outages as individual feeders become overloaded.

      But, what they are most likely really referring to is aggressively scheduled maintenance to allow for upgra
    • by lawpoop (604919)

      There is no such thing as an intentional rolling brownout.

      A brownout is usually caused by a short or a transformer melting down which results in an under-voltage leading to a blackout. A brownout is when you still have electricity but it's not at the required voltage or power level.

      I think they mean rolling blackouts.

      Can you really rule out government incompetence as a cause for rolling brownouts?

      "Boss, we can't just drop the voltages on the computer equipment. We should have scheduled power-outs so everyone knows when the system will be down. We can say it's for maintenance."

      "No, I don't want the system to be down. Just drop the power a little."

    • by khallow (566160)
      I don't know why the parent got modded as informative. A brownout is low voltage. It can have many causes including deliberately lowering the voltage by supplying insufficient power. That case would be an "intentional brownout". If the grid admins then cycle through a bunch of customers so that no customer experiences permanent brownout, then you have "intentional rolling brownouts".
  • It is an axiom... (Score:3, Informative)

    by vorlich (972710) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @04:02PM (#19629599) Homepage Journal
    that the purpose of a bureaucracy is to provide employment for the bureaucrats.
    Arthur C. Clarke has suggested that the greatest threat to civilisation is bureacracy.
    The 19th century French writer Balzac once said that 'bureaucracy is a giant machine operated by pygmies'.
    Sadly bureaucracy is often reminiscent of Homer's Duff Beer - the answer to and the cause of all our problems.
    I guess I didn't have to think too much for this post, just pasted in a lot of fondly remembered homily!
    Outstanding!
    Hmm, forget to mention girls or drugs - they are always popular. Did manage to get beer in though.
    Fourth wall? What fourth wall? People read this? No, honestly...
  • Duh! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thewiz (24994) * on Sunday June 24, 2007 @04:09PM (#19629627)
    An internal survey that showed NSA employees have problems trusting each other.

    They're spies! They're trained not to trust anyone!

    Captain Obvious strikes again!
  • A recent public powerpoint presentation

    See, there's your problem, right there. Get rid of all the management types, and you not only have more money to buy stuff, but also don't have them consuming gigawatts pratting about with PowerPoint!
  • by HangingChad (677530) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @06:23PM (#19630459) Homepage

    This is the real problem:

    A recent public powerpoint presentation suggested 70% of of all intelligence spending goes to contractors.

    The NSA is subject to Congressional oversight, contractors are not. 70% of our intelligence spending is unaccounted and unregulated. It's not the NSA you need to worry about spying on you, it's AT&T. When questions started surfacing about their role in spying on Americans, they responded by asking Congress for a liability shield. AT&T doesn't depend on Congress for their budget, the NSA does.

  • knowledge begets knowledge and as such specific knowledge begets its own.

    Its no suprise that a spy agency has trouble trusting itself.

    At some point in mans advancement towards a peaceful world he has to realize that the resources he spends on untrusting is simply not affordable any more. That such resources can be better spent on improving the environment all of man lives in and as such remove reason to terrorise or warmonger.

    It really is a fraction of a percent of the 6 billion plus human population that
  • and run power lines to Ft. Meade. The government actually has plans to use nuclear warcraft to deliver municipal electricity in disaster scenarios.
    • The government actually has plans to use nuclear warcraft to deliver municipal electricity in disaster scenarios.

      And if thats not enough and all you need is some light to work under just send up a nuke like a great big flare.

      And if people complain that the flash doesn't last very long, send up another one.

      With the amount of nukes the USA has this should provide a viable light source for its citizens lasting for several months.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dbIII (701233)
      Gold plated solutions are OK in the short term or in small numbers, but if you have time shipping in some diesel genators the size of shipping containers makes more sense and is actually on site. The expense of running those subs is worth it for range but using them as generators when other options are available makes little sense. A disaster is a different story when you can get it onto the spot.
  • by Skapare (16644) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @09:38PM (#19631475) Homepage

    Reducing power demand is easy. I've already done this in one server facility. Just change the voltage being fed to the computers with dual voltage or wide voltage range switching power supplies from 120 volts to 208 or 240 volts. The power supplies will on average use about 3% less power. Additionally, because the total current being used is less, the heating losses in the wiring leading to the computers will be significantly reduced (although it is usually only 1% to 2% of the total power demand). In the case of 3 phase power systems, a substantial current will be present on neutrals, causing a lot more loss (and in some cases a potential fire hazard). By connecting computers between phases in 208Y/120 volt power systems (line to line instead of line to neutral), the accumulation of currents on the neutrals will be eliminated. The currents on the phase conductors will be greater, but not by as much. The power lost heating up the conduits will be less. Alternatively, they could switch certain power systems to 416Y/240 volts and reduce the current even more (although this would require going back to line to neutral connections).

    I just wonder if the NSA already knows this. Maybe the analysts do, but what about the facility managers?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by afidel (530433)
      Better yet go with DC power supplies. If you design a datacenter from the getgo to be DC you can save a significant fraction of total power usage. You save on the DC->AC inverter in your UPS and on the AC->DC step in the power supply in the servers. Add to that the lower AC demands from the more efficient power usage and your total savings are around 20% of total power budget, which is significant.
  • Underfunded? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ScrewMaster (602015) on Sunday June 24, 2007 @10:42PM (#19631773)
    Personally, I'd say that they aren't so much underfunded as they are badly managed. The problem is that it can be very difficult to distinguish between the two, since both cases result in serious functional issues.
  • SimCity? (Score:2, Funny)

    by ADRenalyn (598918)
    Did anyone else read this headline as a warning in the SimCity message window?

If Machiavelli were a hacker, he'd have worked for the CSSG. -- Phil Lapsley

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