FTC Petitioned on Data Profiling 76
Mephistopholies sent /. a link to an AP article about this Washington hearing, but I prefer the more complete NY Times story about it. The Federal Trade Commission is being asked to examine web profiling and tracking technology as used by the likes of Doubleclick to track users across multiple sites. The article also notes that it is likely some sort of bill to facilitate taking away individuals' domain names (you may have heard this spun as an "anti-cybersquatting" bill) will pass this year.
A side note: slashdot readers who like YRO stories should realize that we will posting an increasing number of them in the YRO section only - they won't ever appear on the main page of slashdot.org, but will be accessible via the Sections link on the left side of the page, and there's a YRO slashbox now, too, so you can see the headlines for YRO on the home page if you so desire (and are minimally competent at setting your user preferences).
Snurk. (Score:1)
The assumption of many in the net community is that having a little bit of government, a little bit of restraint, a little bit of regulation is like being "a little bit pregnant". I don't think this is true. You see, the irony in the phrase "a little bit pregnant" arises from the inevitability of pregnancy. Once you are "a little bit" pregnant, you will soon be
I don't think that regulation is like this. In fact, there is ample empirical evidence that it is not. Consider the meat-packing industry. For almost 100 years, it has been subject to federal and state regulation. Yet today, it is far from dominated by the federal government. You could argue that the regulation has been ineffectual: tyrranical it is not. Regulation has not grown to the extremes of communist control of industry that were predicted.
I guess that's my only point: many on the net are so afraid of the government that they fail to recognize the positive work that government can do. Like the meat industry in the 1890's, we are so afraid that the government will "take over" that we don't mind letting a few kids die of e. coli poisoning.
I wonder if, like the meat industry, we aren't really motivated by short term profit at any cost? Our privacy, our dignity as humans, anything for money.
If you don't want to be tracked.. (Score:1)
I have never ever heard of one case of misuse of collected consumer information. Ad companies could care less about that, that's like selling porno to kids, it's not ethical AND there's no money in it. The only people interested in gathering information about you for sinister reasons is the NSA and the FBI.
It's ridiculous that people are worried about this. Ooooh they are going to know that you buy 19th century british history books at amazon or that you've looked up asian sports bras on yahoo. Big deal! If I were going to be worried about ANYTHING I would worry about whether my web-based email service is snooping around in my online email. Now that's a serious privacy threat but nobody seems to worry about that one. It's just those dirty advertising companies who know what banner ads you've seen.
What is the WORST thing that can happen if a web site tracks your movements? They show you banner ads that are more to your liking? Oh NO, The sky is falling! They offer you discounts on products they think you might like. OH NO! Why are people so freaked out about this?
Re:Web Tracking (Score:1)
This has to do with any site that runs doubleclick ad-banners, and some that don't. A
If you are a lynx only guy then I'm sorry I don't really know what to tell you. I like the pretty pictures I guess.
I would say that there isn't much difference, as Lynx handles cookies like any other browser.
Get junkbuster and make all your freinds get it too. Let the companies figure it out for themselves. Of course there are always plenty of sheep tucked away in Doubleclicks databases.
Re:NY Times requires registration! (Score:1)
Does the cypherpunks/cypherpunks login still work at NY Times? IIRC, last time I tried getting in, it didn't work, so perhaps NYT has removed that.
-= NJV =-
Doubleclick (Score:2)
Junkbuster can stop web redirectors from tracking where you've been. I think more and more people should be running this type of software in order to avoid being tracked by direct marketers.
-= NJV =-
Re:Riders suck. (Score:2)
Why does our society always feel the need to check its common sense at the door?
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
If you're against total freedom for smut on the Internet (I am), its assumed that you are against the free distribution of (for example) Howl by Ginsburg (I'm not). If you're against allowing lesbian and gay households to adopt children (I am) you are assumed to be a homophobic asshole (I'm not). If you're a Christian (I am), you must be either a Fundamentalist (I'm not. On an aside, I wonder how many people who scream about the "Fundies" could define Fundamentalism as a movement? Not many from what I've seen.) or a Liberal Socialist Universalist (I'm not). If you think that Jews need Christ (I do) then you are considered to be a raging anti-semite (I'm not -- In fact, if I had been a German I would have qualified for the death camps, and I loved my Jewish grandfather dearly.)
Our society tries to condense everything into sound bites, reduce all issues to black and white caricatures. This is a Really Bad Thing! In the end, the only safe position is to have no opinions at all.
But back to the point. A little bit of censorship is not the same thing as a lot. And a little bit of government interference in the net is
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
Anti-pornography laws do not qualify. The material to be forbidden is well known and understood, and is generally not totally forbidden, only made more difficult to acquire. I realize that the "well-known and understood" is a value judgement, but at the very least there is ample opportunity for oversight as to what is being forbidden.
The
Re:Web Tracking (Score:1)
My comment about pr0n was not so indicative, my bad. When I talked of pr0n, it was as an example - I'm with you with your point. It's difficult though isn't it - you go into a shop - is it the business of that shop to find out what you buy? Is it their business which route you take around it? Is it their business if they can change their shop by looking at how people go around shops in general?
Maybe you'd like their shop more if they did look and acted upon it.
I'm with you though. I'd like to be able to look at sites without doubleclick knowing about them. I'd like legislation to make it impossible for them to join these usage databases with user registration details. Why? I'm not entirely sure. I'm not sure whether I care so much about what is 'my business', I just don't like it, and that should be enough. It looks like it will be, with possible legislation. But from the companies' point of view, they want to see how they can gear their site towards you more, so they can get more money from you. They don't see that as so bad. But it looks like we might win to an extent. Hopefully!
thenerd.
The camels are coming.
Web Tracking (Score:2)
It's difficult to weigh up the benefits and disadvantages for the companies and the users - on the one hand companies can really improve their site (layout, usability, quality of information) based on that information. Being able to track people across multiple sites will be enable companies to really cater for those that are coming to their site.
However, users, understandably, don't want every move of theirs tracked - presumably with the worry that they will in the end, be held accountable for that time they typed in www.pr0n4u.com.
Balancing the wants of the company and of the individual is always difficult. In the end, is the individual willing to pay the price of less privacy for a 'better' (i.e. targetted to get the most visits/$$'s from you) browsing experience? Without these measures are unscrupulous people going to join your browsing records with your browsing information?
This area is going to get very complex, legislative-wise, with products such as Novell's DigitalMe [digitalme.com] campaign to store user profiles 'for your convenience'. This is put forward as a great enabler, but in fact mostly, it is an enabler for companies to get information about you, or aggregate information about you and others, and helps you very little.
With the introduction of the W3C's P3P [w3.org] platform, it will be easier for users to keep track of where their personal details are going, but this kind of collaborative tracking really is a bit difficult. Obviously, DoubleClick will have a privacy policy. When they change it in the case of legislation, will they chuck away your data?
thenerd
The camels are coming.
I don't believe it (Score:1)
On the last "Geeks in Space" page, someone asked about the colors [slashdot.org], and I hazarded a guess [slashdot.org] that it was to distinguish the different Slashdot "sections".
I also commented that black was not a good color to use, and I suggested orange, like "#bb4400". I was joking! I thought they should change it, but I didn't actually mean for them to use orange! Now I see this page in an orange/brown "#663300", which is pretty close to what I said. Actually, it turns out that "#bb4400" is not a "web color", the closest one looks worse, and "#663300" is the next one down, according to Apple's HTML color picker. If this is my fault, I'm sorry.
Actually, on second thought, it doesn't look so bad. I even kind of like it, and I definitely think color-coding the sections like this is a good idea. However, I see that the "Geeks in Space" section is still in black, and the Slashdot logo images are still in the standard "#006666" Slashdot green. Especially here in YRO, I think the logos should be changed to match, since the brown and green look kind of painful together.
David Gould
Re:Argh... (Score:2)
This may be out of character in light of my posting history on the subject of Slashdot registration (which, relevantly enough, you can look up if interested), but I don't mind Slashdot's posting-history. I figure everything I say on Slashdot is completely public; if I didn't want people to know what I think, I wouldn't post it in a public forum, or at least not under my own name. The users.pl page just collects all the comments into a handy location, which I find very useful for keeping track of replies to my comments, etc. I just wish it went further back, keeping links into the archived stories. If someone wants to keep track of what I say, he could just as well do it by scanning all the stories for my name.
The reason I don't mind this is that it is not required. I choose to post under my real name because I consider what I say here to be public, and I choose what to say with that in mind. If I wanted to say something that I didn't want my name attached to, I'd post it anonymously (and, being paranoid, I'd probably log out and zap my cookie instead of just using this little "Post Anonymously" checkbox).
I believe it's very important for people to be able to post anonymously if they so choose, for, among other, the same reasons that concern you, but I don't insist on doing so myself. I also am very much against the discrimination that people get when they do so: defaulting to a lower score is arguable, but insulting them by labelling them as "cowards" is unnecessarily confrontational and much of the hostility that is directed toward them is unwarranted -- a lot of people seem to think "anonymous posts" and "bad posts" are the same thing, when I see only (at best) a weak correlation.
I am definitely bothered by the "to serve you better, we track you" thing that so many sites do, especially when they don't offer any special services that inherently depend on tracking, but just collect the data, presumably to improve their own operations through some sort of decision-support database, or else to sell it to other marketers. In the first case, that information is mine, dammit, and if they ask nicely, I might be willing to sell it to them, but they can't have it for free. Improving the overall quality of service that they can offer does not count as paying me. The second case is even worse -- they have no right to do that without my permission, which they will never get.
About the NYT registration thing, I just never read any story of theirs, as a matter of policy, because the privilege of reading a story (and looking at an ad banner) is not something for which I'm willing to sell my information. I used "cypherpunks/cypherpunks" a couple of times (way back), but then I decided that I don't like that. I'm just not interested enough in anything they have to say to register, or to resort to trickery, which would be supporting them with the ad banner anyway.
As for Slashdot posting links to the NYT, I don't have a problem with that -- people who don't mind it can use it, and people who feel as I do can decline to do so. There's no need for Slashdot to boycott them, even if some of us decide to do so. What I don't like is when it's the only link given for a story. I guess, sometimes at least, it's the only one available, but it's better when another link can be provided, like this time. Before long, someone usually finds the same story on another site and posts the link in a comment, anyway.
David Gould
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
There is, of course, nothing wrong with a profit motive, ...
Yes there is, if it's to the exclusion of all else. I think it's fair to blame many of the world's problems on the blind profit motive. It has corrupted government, news media, schools, our justice system, and other crucial elements of a free society. We'll be lucky if we can recover from it.
with men like Al Gore still holding elected office, many people doubt that governments can understand the basic issues (technical and otherwise) required for passing reasonable laws.
(Kind of a stretch to get political here. Any excuse to bash Democrats, Thrush?) Actually, Gore is ahead of the pack. He was more cognizant of Internet issues in 1992 than most politicians are today; he promoted it loudly and, FWIW, coined the term "information superhighway". Granted, he hasn't done much with it lately.
Just so you know, Bush would be worse. Here's a great example of his political doublespeak from his hi-tech plan [georgewbush.com], regarding encryption export restrictions:
News flash to Bush: You can't have it both ways. This is ignorant doublespeak written by a well-paid political consultant. He's NOT on our side, if you watch him closely (which many people are happy to avoid doing). It's classic Bush-- he winks in every direction, so all sides say "HE'S our man!" But in truth, he's pro-business, because that's who gives him money. And in the matter at hand, pro-business means pro-data-profiling.But I do agree with you that a) less Internet regulation is better, and b) we may need some, unfortunately, if private industry keeps abusing personal data.
Re:IPChains blocking (Score:2)
Re:Web Tracking (Score:1)
Re:If you don't want to be tracked.. (Score:1)
Re:Web Tracking (Score:2)
Bubblekick pays the stores so they can stand around in various places. The store decides where they are allowed to stand, but in the end it might be based on how much Bubblekick is willing to pay.
The Bubblekick representative does indeed ask every customer that walks by if they would like to carry an ID badge. Most customers say yes. Some even just reach out and grab the badge without being asked.
Now, this badge is basically nothing but a number. The other Bubblekick representatives have scanners that read the number and associate it with a location.
So, does this sound particularly bad? Not really. If someone asked me if I wanted to carry a badge around the store then I'd probably just say no. However, if based on where I had been they held up signs telling me about other things I might want to look at... well, I'm not so sure... I might say yes.
If I decide to dump that tracking information then all I have to do is throw the badge away. Suddenly the trail ends.
Now, where the breach of privacy comes in is when Bubblekick, without asking me, associates that number with my real name. Suddenly I no longer have control of the trail. And that's bad.
-Paul
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
However, isn't it nice that you have the freedom to draw your own boundaries between the different "I am's" and "I'm not's"?
A little bit of censorship is very much the same as alot if you use your definition of little and my definition of alot. And that's really the point. All of these things are really grey issues and I'd rather not have someone else arbitrarily decide which is black and which is white. Especially when a particular issue really falls at both ends of the scale.
When in doubt, I say opt for more freedom not less. We really need to start making people responsible for their own actions again. Freedom comes with responsibilities.
Oh, and about the meat analogy, it just doesn't work. Meat != information. Bad meat can make you sick or kill you. Bad information is just useless at best or misleading at worst. Consumers of information have a responsibility to use that information appropriately. If we do not have the freedom to read whatever material we choose then we will end up being a bunch of sheep led around by whatever moral majority happens to be in power. No thank you.
-Paul
Re:NY Times requires registration! (Score:2)
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
No, I think this is just the new color to let you know that you are in the YRO section.
Nice try,
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
Not my real name, BTW.
I won't try to hide my right wing tendencies, but I honestly wasn't trying to pick on any one party. Al Gore is this nation's political Alpha Geek, and that is exactly my point. If Al can't get a clue, what about Strom "Bevis and Bunghole" Thurmond or Jesse Helms.
Politicians only know what lobbyists tell them. I have one vote and no lobbyist. The companies who stand to lose the most will make sure they have the most lobbyists.
The Internet is still the wild west, but - if I may mix metaphors - no one is warning the consumer that it is "surfer beware".
Re:Snurk. (Score:3)
There is, of course, nothing wrong with a profit motive, but I think this last statement is a bit cynical.
Most libertarian netizens have valid fears of government regulation. The Internet has done just fine without Congress passing any laws. The government often functions as a third party with interests and agendas separate from either the consumer or provider. Government regulation isn't always rational laws from a disinterested party, sometimes it is motiviated by greed and profit.
In addition, with men like Al Gore still holding elected office, many people doubt that governments can understand the basic issues (technical and otherwise) required for passing reasonable laws.
To use your analogy, the Internet is not meat packing, if it were, Bill Clinton would have all the answers. Still, innocent users are being misled. Some kind of protection is needed and the private sector is doing a miserable job of filling that role.
Re:Riders suck. (Score:1)
On a somewhat similar note, how exactly will this bill facilitate taking away individuals' domain names? As opposed to taking away domain names from businesses which make their money from cyber-squatting, for example. According to the NY Times article, the bill affects only those who buy domain names (which are registered trademarks or "popular names" (meaning what?)) only for the purpose of resale to others who might have an interest in such a domain.
My opinion: I'm not sure I agree with the inclusion of "popular names" - that seems a little arbitrary - but squatting on registered trademarks solely for the purpose of scalping them to the trademark holders is probably a bad thing. Of course, intent is tough to prove as well, not to mention enforcement in foreign countries.
My point is that /. describing this as a "bill to facilitate taking away individuals' domain names" is fairly inflammatory language, and I'd like to hear the basis for this claim.
[ObOnTopic] Unrelated riders do suck - when was the last time an unrelated rider turned out to be a good thing, or even turned out to be a better thing than passing the rider legislation as its own bill?
Re:Trademarks clause just abuses the little guy. (Score:1)
I don't agree with the "popular names" clause, as I stated before. However, from your description it doesn't sound like the Newton situation would fall under the new law anyway. I'm not familiar with the background on this, but it sounds like newton.com wasn't held by Mr. Newton solely to squeeze a lot of money out of Apple computer. This case sounds like the same old "big corp. unleashes lawyers and dollars to grab by intimidation what they can't take by law" story. See veronica.org [veronica.org], ajax.org [ajax.org], etc. If newton.com wasn't a business with interests in the same arena as the trademark holder, then it should have been safe from Apple's actions.
Of course things didn't work out that way. But the course of events in the newton.com situation would not have been altered by the proposed cyber-squatting bill. The real problems were:
I'll be the first person to agree with you that the current legal situation involving domain name disputes favors big business considerably at the expense of the individual domain owner. I just want to see the real issues are being addressed, rather than the usual /. railing against everything the government does. Removing the popular names clause and adding some protection for the individual domain owner (loser pays legal costs in trademark disputes?) would be a welcome addition to this bill, but I don't see how prohibitions specifically against "cybersquatting with intent to resell to the registered trademark owner" can be used to take away an individual's personal domain, like newton.com, veronica.org, or ajax.org.
Re:If you don't want to be tracked.. (Score:2)
By the way..am I the only person showing slashdot colors funny right now?
"We hope you find fun and laughter in the new millenium" - Top half of fastfood gamepiece
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
otherwise) required for passing reasonable laws.
I find this to be the scariest part of the whole issue. I don't WANT people who have no understanding of the internet to pass laws. Chances are they will screw things up and make it worse. You've seen how the government has already handled encryption and related export laws. People fear what they don't understand for the most part. Thus making laws to restrict what they don't understand makesi t more difficult for those of us who do get it
I think netscape has officially hit the crack pot. 4.7 128 bit for linux is showing all the colors funny. check it out here [lusis.org]
"We hope you find fun and laughter in the new millenium" - Top half of fastfood gamepiece
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
"We hope you find fun and laughter in the new millenium" - Top half of fastfood gamepiece
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
Completely agree. However, consider another scenario, at least as frightening, and probably more: passing of laws by people who DO understand the internet, but want it to look very different from what it is. The three-letter agencies are a prime example.
Kaa
Product endorsement: Intermute (Score:1)
Its similar to Junkbuster, but is java based, easier to configure, and works on NT as well.
--Mark
Re:NY Times requires registration! (Score:1)
and couldn't find it.
The NY Times login sucks!
Re:IPChains blocking (Score:1)
Here are a few:
194.237.107.11 (no,se,dk,es)
193.128.61.168 (uk)
195.154.216.201 (fr)
212.172.60.10 (de)
210.150.23.240 (jp)
How do I use IP chains, is this a program I can install on my Linux box?
Junk Ads Vs Informative Ads (Score:1)
However, there are a lot of bogus ads out there. For example, there is an ad cycling though /. for a vendor "giving away" an alpha linux system. Yet when you click to their site, no mention of it anywhere. Then there are ads like the incredably annoying "Punch the Monkey". There are a couple of sites which regularly have this ad running (Infoseek being one of them) which I no longer visit... at all.
The end result of all this? I've been using WRQ's AtGuard [atguard.com] so I don't have to deal with ads, and in theory the privacy involving refers and cookies from sites which I don't want to give cookies to. Of course this doesn't help me on all systems I have access to, but it keeps a lid on my primary systems.
Does this harm the revenue stream to sites that I wish to support because I no longer click through? Probably. How much? Who knows. Do I like the added privacy protection? Definately!
Re:ahh, the colors (Score:1)
not only is this a long sentence, but i think it might have something to do with the colors
perhaps they are using the colors to distinguish the different secitons?
just a thought
gimpboy
Re:Riders suck. (Score:2)
Re:Snurk. (Score:1)
by comparing to the meat-industry, you assume that you are dealing with a certain demographic; meat-producers. But the net's so diverse. You have college students, kids playing games, minority groups sharing resources. when my grandfather had ALS, the net was one of the ways that he stayed in touch w/ the world, and other ppl w/ als. So, a solution that works for one group is most-likely out of touch w/ another group.
I'm sure we all remember the imfamous Comm. Decency Act. On the cover, it sounds reasonable; get rid of the smut that pervades the net. The problem was, a) it amounted to censorship, contradicting one of gov't's other "regulations", and b) it went too far. Breast cancer discussions, homo-sexual group forums. All of this would have been banned, because it contained "sexual content".
Westerners have a funny habit of condemning countries like Russia and China for "infringing on basic rights", and yet, they'll allow their own government to do so, in the name of "protecting democracy". Don't think that
Still pretty fly for a GwaiJai.
I only take a drink on two occasions - when I'm thirsty and when I'm not.
Re:Web Tracking (Score:1)
However, users, understandably, don't want every move of theirs tracked - presumably with the worry that they will in the end, be held accountable for that time they typed in www.pr0n4u.com.
No No No No NO NoIt has absolutely NOTHING to do with people finding out we go to porn sites. This is like saying "Your against illegal search and seziure, you must have something to hide."
I don't go to p0rn sites. I'm recently married (in July) and haven't had the desire to view such material for the last 2 years. However, I don't want companies looking around at my web browsing patterns... why? It's none of their god damned bussiness how, when, why or where I browse the web.
I have no problem with them tracking people who don't mind giving out personal information to companies that may or may not be ethical, but give me to option to not give out this info. It's that simple.
Re:Web Tracking (Score:1)
They are not tracking you from the minute you open a browser untill you log out. They are only tracking you while you are going from one of their sites to another one. So unless they start advertising on sites that have illegal or morally questionable content (ok conventionally morally questionable) they are tracking you surfing habits
and spending habits, if you buy things. They are going to send you banners based on these surfing and spending habits. Now that's not so great, but this has nothing to do with pr0n or mp3's or warez or whatever. This is not going to be used to convict you of anything. Now I don't want to be tracked, but I also know that someone needs to pay for all the content at some point (I know alot of you don't think so, but I find that too simplistic, I like the explosion of the web if only because in amoungst all the junk there is still a higher rate of interesting content, I also find it silly that you are all posting on a site that runs banners) If you are a lynx only guy then I'm sorry I don't really know what to tell you. I like the pretty pictures I guess.
My personal oppinion is that there is going to have to be some kind of accord where the limits of what can be tracked are set, probably by a series of lawsuits. Probably spurred in part by the improper use of tracking information, and that we are going to have to comprimise on the use of traacking technology to really target ads. But until that time comes it is important to stay informed and remember that saying "I just don't want to be tracked" is not a convincing arguement it leads to being labled as a parnoiac, unjustly sure (i've been giving fake names and phone numbers at radio sack since forever) Be more informed if you don't like this kind of thing.
Your sig... (Off-topic) (Score:1)
--The Curious Russian Enthusiast
Re:Your sig... (Off-topic) (Score:1)
smjert' shpionam. It just didn't look right to me. (Of course Cyrillic doesn't look right at all in the roman character set.)
Re:Snurk. (Score:2)
heh
Marketting info. (Score:4)
They send out a huge number of catalogs every year, and those catalogs cost them a fair amount to produce. At least $1 a pop. So obviously it is in their best interest to only send catalogs to those who actually want them. And in a very real sense, if they were able to do this perfectly, it would be good for the consumer as well. No one would be bothered with junk mail they didn't want. In theory, it would be a win-win situation.
But to go about this requires collecting a lot of data, some of it that would bother a privacy expert, and likely even a normal customer. For example, they want to track whether or not you go to the store after receiving a catalog. This tells them that, even though you didn't order through the catalog, it still brought you to the store and therefore wasn't a wasted mailing. Of course, to do this, they have to somehow get your address when you buy from the store.
I was in the unfortunate position of doing some of the programming at the front end, and it bothered me because we quite literally were doing things behind our customer's backs. For instance, store personel would ask for a customer's zip-code "for marketting purposes". Now, I'm sure nearly everyone thinks this is for some sort of demographic info. It is not. Instead, they take the zip code, and your name, and use the combination to figure out your entire address. In other words, they say, "Aha, this credit card number belongs to the John Smith at zipcode 12345. Since there is only one, this means that he's the one that lives at 555, mockingbird lane. let's send him a catalog".
We used check readers for similar purposes. Customers assume that their checks are being authorized. They are not. Instead, the bank account number is captured, and then sent to a nice little service that returns a name and address when given a bank account number.
But again, this is all just to figure out who to send catalogs to. Which creates an interesting situation. The company ends up with all this data on you, your name, credit card number, bank account. Data that I'm sure makes everyone here a little (or a lot) queasy to see in someone's hands. Yet it isn't captured for any real nefarious purpose. It is, at least in theory, captured to help you, at least from the company's point of view.
This is why companies can act so schizophrenic about privacy. They truly do what they do to help "serve you better". Unfortunately, the end result is not necessarily in your best interest.
I completely understand the whole situation at "Real". I'm sure that the people who invaded the privacy of all of their users truly believed that they were doing what they were doing to help serve their customers better. That is what makes the corporate invasion of privacy so insidious. The people who do it don't think they are doing anything to hurt anyone. And they really aren't, in their own little world. But the net effect of a thousand companies "better serving" their customers is a complete and utter destruction of any notion of privacy.
Re:NY Times requires registration! (Score:2)
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YRO = Your Rights On-line (Score:2)
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Trademarks clause just abuses the little guy. (Score:2)
Want to guess where newton.com [newton.com] points to now? Click on it and weep. Note, this is *after* the demise of the Newton.
The "trademarks and popular names" clause is just going to mean that small businesses, who do not have the exposure to justify going to the PTO to register names, are going to be shoved out of cyberspace by the big guys. And that's just wrong. This cybersquatting bill needs to have a safe-harbor clause for "natives" like Newton, and hefty statutory damages for name-grabs like Apple's. Without that, it should be scrapped.
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Re:Trademarks clause just abuses the little guy. (Score:2)
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Re:Doubleclick (Score:1)
What this means is that if Slashdot were to cooporate with Focalink, your name can now be matched to all your Dejanews searches. Focallink is also used by at least a few search engines. etc. etc.
Think about it, all the times you searched for porn, info on specific medical conditions, or anything else...no matter where you searched, it could have all, at least in theory, been recorded, and could be matched to your name and address.
ps. Slashdot would have to confirm if they used focallink, but once when I erased all my cookies and accessed slashdot, a focalink cookie appeared in my Cookies directory, so I'm assuming that they did.
Wired/Reuters source of info (Score:1)
Re:Web Tracking (Score:2)
That's a very good analogy, and I think to extend it to the online world, imagine that when you went into any shop, there was a representative from "Bubblekick" who snapped a little GPS-like transciever onto your belt which would send signals to the special "Bubblekick" receiver in this store and recorded how you walked around the store and what products you picked up and looked at.
BUT, you don't get asked if you want to wear the transciever, it simply gets strapped onto you *unless* you go through some kind of annoying processes to let them know you DON'T want it.
Worse yet, it seems that more and more, that "Bubblekick" rep is in EVERY store you go in and now you have to tell the guy for EVERY store you walk into that you don't want to have their stupid little adapter stuck to you if you don't already have one on your belt.
And then, as if that weren't bad enough, you find out that, even though your favorite store has this "Bubblekick" guy standing by the front door ready to track your movements, your store owner doesn't directly get that data at all - it all gets downloaded directly to "Bubblekick" HQ along with all the "Bubblekick" data from every other store (which includes the "Global ID" for your particular "Bubblekick" box) - and the owner of your favorite store has to request to have the data for his/her store sent back so they can make some use of it.
Meanwhile, the "Bubblekick" guys have all the data you have collected for them for EVERY store you've been into and are busy trying to sell it to stores like that place down the street that you don't like because the guy behind the counter is a jerk. So even though you won't give him your business, he's getting a benefit from your own shopping experience, and "Bubblekick" is making a profit from incliuding your shopping experience in the profiles they are selling - all without your permission.
It sounds a lot worse if you take your analogy and translate it into Real Life... People just don't see the invasiveness when it's all done digitally.
Maybe you'd like their shop more if they did look and acted upon it.
It would be more acceptible (and these all semm plainly obvious if you look at them in context of "Real Life" shopping) if:
A) *NOT* having that transceiver strapped onto me was the "default action" taken by the "Bubblekick" representative,
B) I could say that only my favorite store received the data gathered by my browsing there - and that means "Bubblekick" DOES NOT get even a single bit of the data collected at that store- because yes, having a good personal relationship with little "Mom-n-Pop" type stores is a good thing in this world of Megamarts and Supermalls,
C) I had some kind of recourse to tell the "Bubblekick" guy, "You know, I've been thinking, I don't like that you have my shopping experiences recorded. Delete anything related to my profile. Here's the number on that little box, which you have fortunately made very easy for me to find so I can easily have you delete all my profile information."
It's just a shame that it looks like we have to resort to legislation to enforce what in "Real Life" would be simple courtesy, simply because companies think (or know) they can get away with a lot more when it's all just happening over the wire.
-=-=-=-=-
IPChains blocking (Score:3)
-A output -s 0.0.0.0/0.0.0.0 -d 208.211.225.89/255.255.255.255 -j REJECT
-A output -s 0.0.0.0/0.0.0.0 -d 199.95.207.0/255.255.255.0 -j REJECT
-A output -s 0.0.0.0/0.0.0.0 -d 199.95.208.0/255.255.255.0 -j REJECT
-A output -s 0.0.0.0/0.0.0.0 -d 204.253.104.80/255.255.255.255 -j REJECT
Use 'em, abuse 'em, let me know if there's more IPs.
ipchains-restore (file with above text)
P3P is only a very partial solution (Score:2)
P3P is a great idea, and I'm all in favour of it.
OTOH, P3P is not a solution to this type of tracking, nor will it ever be. What P3P does is usually misunderstood, even by the nerderati, so please let me point out something significant.
P3P is a protocol for a site to tell a browser what the privacy policy of the site is. Note the direction the information flows in -- only one way. There's no scope in P3P for your browser to be configured to suppress privacy information, nor for it to request a site to not log particular information. The best a full P3P implementation could achieve, even assuming full and honest cooperation of the site operator, is for it to connect to a site and then disable access to the pages with a "Lets not go there" message.
I might still wish to shop at Badgers 'R Us, even though they have a loathsome default logging policy, but only providing they want my business enough to turn logs off on request. Click trails are very low value individually - sites can't afford to lose real trade in favour of them, so we do have the economic advantage here.
P3P can only tell me not to go in, it can't allow me to still shop there without leaving the log trail behind. What we need is a negotiated mechanism for a privacy / logging compromise -- if somewhere like Skylighter (a pyrotechnics vendor) wants to bar users from the shop unless there's reasonable logging in effect, then that's fair and reasonable. OTOH, if World Of Fish request logs, then my browser should tell them to get stuffed and they should either accept this, or lose my business to Piece O' Pike a few blocks down.
A major failing of the UK DPA (Data Protection Act) is that it's too much like P3P. It's good at telling you who has your data, but it's bad at controlling them getting it in the first place. You can't re-bottle the genie.
Re:If you don't want to be tracked.. (Score:2)
Re:Doubleclick (Score:1)
And now we ask for net-connected fridge and toasters? Same problem is gonna happen, with stupid companies gathering your eating habits and grocery list.
Don't be a dick. (Score:1)
Re:Marketting info. (Score:1)
This is why it is so difficult to get some companies to realise that sometimes privacy is more important than service. Some companies fall back on the argument that "we only collect this info to better serve the customer", instead of figuring out some way of serving the customer that doesn't involve tracking them for years. As someone else once mentioned, there is no concept of forgiveness in most computer systems. In some cases, there's no such thing as forgiveness on the net. Cantor (sp?) and Siegel's Green Card Lottery messages will probably never be forgotten entirely, even after the law firm folds up.
Even those companies that offer to stop tracking someone who requests it, tend to request much more information about the person than is strictly necessary to stop tracking. Try to get off one of Microsoft's mailing lists. I think it's gotten easier than it was, but the original required a large number of forms to be filled out before you ever got to the "stop sending me email" checkbox.
I know I've said this before, but sometimes I think it just doesn't sink in...
If you work for a company that sends email to a big list of addresses, and someone asks to be removed from your emailing lists, please don't ask them for physical address as well. The only data you need to have, in order to remove an email address from a list, is that email address.
Argh... (Score:1)
Seriously, why is it a bad thing for someone to mention that they don't like the NY Times registration requirements? Especially on a Your-rights-online posting involving profiling based on computer-based tracking? When you register for the NYT, you allow tracking, whether or not you agree with it.
This is another case of "to serve you better, we track you". Whether it's good or bad, legal or illegal, I still don't want them to do it.
In fact, I'm not even in favor of Slashdot's registration requirements. I was in the midst of doing a book review for slashdot when they implemented the "track what person 'X' has said for the past few weeks" feature, and stopped doing the review. A lot of what Slashdot does to serve me better, removes some of the privacy I might otherwise have had.
Welcome to the brave new world
Beautiful day (Score:1)
Privacy Concerns and cookies (Score:2)
Re:Trademarks clause just abuses the little guy. (Score:1)
The current law is designed to protect famous or well known domain names from 'cybersqatters' who purchase the site merely to extort from the big companies (see the Toppen cases) or for the purpose of ridiculing the company (see the micros0ft.com case) whilst attempting to keep the first-come first-served nature of the system alive for 'legitimate claims'.
Putting aside for the moment the justice of this - problems arise as big companies intimidate small companies who got in first and have 'legitimate claims'
For the current law - see Cyber-squatters - Examples of Abuse of Domain Names
A. Trafficing in Names
eg. windows95.com and McDonalds.com
UK: British Telecommunications plc, Virgin Enterprises Ltd, Sainsbury plc, Ladbroke Group plc, Marks & Spencer plc v One in a Million Ltd & Others, Court of Appeal, 23 July
1998.
US: Intermatic Inc v Dennis Toepppen No 96 C 1982 ND 1II (3 October 1996)
US: Panavision International v Toeppen 40 USPQ 2d 1908 (CD Cal 1996) (21 November 1996)
(http://www.jmls.edu/cyber/cases/panavis.html))
B. Exploit the Goodwill of the Name
eg. Tuebner.com (trademark owner: Teubner & Associates)and www.whitehouse.com (pornography)
US: Hasbro Inc v Internet Entertainment Group Inc Case C96 130 WD
US: Planned Parenthood v Bucci 1997 US Dist Lexis 3338, 1997 WL 133313
US: Cardservice International Inc v Webster R McGee (unreported, US District Court of Virginia, Calvitt J, 16 January 1997)
domain names present a unique circumstance in determining trade mark infringement over the Internet, as customers were likely to assume that 'cardservices.com' belonged to Cardserice International and even when they realised it was not Cardserice International they were still likely to take adavantage of M's services
US: Maritz Inc v Cybergold 1996 US Dist Lexis 14977 29 August 1996
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Re:Trademarks clause just abuses the little guy. (Score:1)
Up until now, except for the fact that big companies have been able to threaten little companies into handing over domains, when these cases have actually come to court, domains wouldn't be handed over unless there was a good reason (according to the court) - using them to extort money, ridiculing brands or if the domains are really famous (ie. McDonalds, Panavision etc - I know this isn't fair but since when did fairness have anything to do with the law
This is compounded by jurisdictional problems - If I am in Australia for example (which I am) what if I register xyz.com which is famous in Australia but not in the US (who have a famous xyz company of their own).
Should the US company get it? Should it depend on who registers the trademark first (note the US and Australia have reciprocal trademark agreemets)? should the fact that a xyz.com.au domain is available effect the argument (as xyz.com is more lucrative - especially if xyz Australia is an international company)? etc.
These are hard questions, but at present, the Courts (notably the US, UK and Australian Courts) have delt relatively sensibly with these issues - As you suggest legislators just blundering in without looking at all the issues (especially with tacked-on legislation such as this) can only create problems and, as you say, will probably benifit big businesses over small.
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