Demon.uk "not backing down" On Godfrey

larien writes "In response to the reporting on their case (See past stores) Demon has issued this press release. In particular, the release includes the following from Demon's director "We have in no way changed our stance, and are extremely confident of winning the case against Dr Laurence Godfrey." " They have, however, choosen to not attend the pre-trial hearing, which probably means Dr. Godfrey will win. In related new, Spridle sent us a story from Silicon. eBay is rethinking any UK development, following this suit.

What's the story?

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't really find much info about the background of the story, even from the BBC news item.

All it says is that Dr. Godfrey is suing because he found some "defamatory content" and that demon.uk would not remove it. Any idea as to what that content is?

I'm not sure what Dr. Godfrey's point is. Unless it was a personal attack on the website, I see no reason for him to sue. I guess he could also be one of those wannabe heroes. Oooh, we're protecting the children of the world by suing Disney for having some clouds that vaguely form a word that can't really be seen unless you watch it in slow motion.

Well, I hope that Dr. Godfrey is happy. He stopped ebay from coming into the UK. Wow, big victory for him.....

Re:Why is Europe so scewed up?

[bluGill]

In case you are not aware, guns are baned from school grounds in the US, and more then 10 other guns laws were broken in both those cases. Those kids have already proven willing to break gun laws and kill others, so putting a few more words down on paper won't solve the problem, it will just take guns from the law abiding.

Re:quick history

[Colin]

Couple of key clarifications:

Demon is _not_ Dr. Godfreys ISP.

Other ISPs were also contacted, and AIUI refused to delete the article. Dr. Godfrey has only initiated legal proceedings (AFAIK) against Demon.

The court case is ongoing - Demon have not lost. They have lost some pretrial bits - but I'm not sure what.

Cheers - Colin.

Deja still indexes the articles. Sort of. :-)

[discHead]

Deja [deja.com] still indexes these articles, but you will notice some interesting holes when you search for them.

Try a power search for "soc.culture.thai" in the forum field and "Laurence AND Godfrey" in the author field, and sort by date. You will notice big gaps of results labeled "Article Unavailable".

quick history

[rodbegbie]

for those not familiar:

In middle of flame war, user in America posted an article to newsgroup, forging the From: address to be that of Mr Godfrey. Mr Godfrey contacted his ISP, Demon, asking for them to remove the message from their servers (despite the fact that the message poster has no connection with DEmon). Demon (for a variety of reasons) said no. Godfrey sued for libel, and won.

The implications for this are wide-ranging -- that ISPs in Britain are somehow responsible for the messages that pass through their servers. The only good thing to come out of it is that it may be the incentive needed to get the British libel laws rewritten for the 21st century (because they've barely been touched in the 20th)

rOD.

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Re: Why does a law abiding citizen need a gun?

[Ares]

Because the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.

"They who would give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

My brother is much fatter than I...

[MarsBar]

why don't you wait for him to come along?

Re:Giving Up

[Kp2]

Yeah. Shit in the can

Why wasn't this posted before?

[Sircus]

I submitted this exact same story 20 minutes after Demon originally released this press release on 11th June? How is it more appropriate for it to appear now than it was 6 days ago?

Giving Up

[clones]

That's kinda sad that they are giving up so easily.

Re:Why is Europe so scewed up?

[hollow_man]

And why does a law abiding citizen need a gun? To
protect them from the outlaws carrying guns. If there were proper laws on guns, the number of deaths in gun related incidents would signicantly drop. But of course that won't happen as long as societies as the NRA glorify guns.
I don't know, but the US looks more and more as the country where the biggest value is egoism.

Re:British & European taxes

[hollow_man]

Actually the US are the biggest debtor in the world... believe it or not.

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Pah!

[blowdart]

If you want an idea of Godfrey's general net attitude, take a look on uk.net [uk.net] where's he's posted (and cross posted to news.admin.net-abuse.*) a bunch of self promoting, bloated, "I win", "I'm a hero" articles, then ran, refusing to dicuss them at all.

This of course is *my* opinion, so sue me Dr. Buttmunch if you don't like it.

Godfrey has not quite won yet

[Paul Johnson]

What Godfrey has won so far is a pre-trial judgement that Demon's defence has no merit in law. This defence was essentialy that Demon were not knowingly publishing the defamatory posting. The judge ruled that once Godfrey had notified them of the posting and asked them to delete it they were indeed publishing it.

The judge also noted that Godfrey has a long history of trolling on nation-related newsgroups, and that as a result the damages that would be awarded would likely be very small. The interesting question will be who pays the costs of the case.

Paul.

Why was this "Libel"?

[IIH]

>In middle of flame war, user in America posted an article to newsgroup, forging the From: address to be that of Mr Godfrey.
>Mr Godfrey contacted his ISP, Demon, asking for them to remove the message from their servers
>Demon (for a variety of reasons) said no. Godfrey sued for libel, and won.

What had always confused me, is why this was a libel case at all. (and why it was against demon, not the poster)

Consider a comparasion - I phone someone (and say I am Joe Soap) and proceed to express "bad" opinions about something or other, but not against Joe Soap himself Would I be done for libel? Would the phone company, if they refused to phone the reciever and apologise on behalf of Joe Soap? I don't think so, I think a fraud case against the forger would be more appropiate. Or was a libel case chosen as the laws are more liberal?

Also, if it was treated as fraud, demon could have done something about it from day one, as they are well within their AUP to cancel fraudelent postings (as it's abuse of the internet, as opposed to abuse on the internet, which their AUP allows them to take action on)

It would have died down a lot quicker and nicer all around, if the posting was cancelled in the grounds it was forged, and a simple explaination "someone forged my name, it wasn't me" was posted to the relevent newsgroup. It does make me wonder why this didn't happen.
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Re:Why is Europe so scewed up?

[canter]

If people would just read a little Thomas Paine, John Locke, Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson, they would see that we (Americans) have the right (duty?) to own guns for ONE REASON. They understood too well that the only way to replace an entrenched autocracy was with the force of arms. I can fill this server with quotes from all 4 authors. This has NOT changed in any way that I can see. The power grabbers' arguments about "hunters and sportsmen" completely miss the point. By accident or design we can argue till the cows come home.. But if all we're left with is some .22 deer rifles, against the firepower of the US Army, its not even an interesting contest...

Also (you got my dander up). The gun controls that HAVE been applied in this country are a joke. Badly drafted provisions give the police wide discretion in many areas to confiscate anything that looks like an "assault rifle". Many cities have banned handguns.. expect for (drum roll) city officials!

For some perspective here. Guns ARE dangerous! Freedom IS dangerous! It comes at a high price of responsibility that most Americans either can't or won't live up to. So either repeal the Second Amendment outright, or quit using gun control to further invade our tattered rights.

In closing, I do not own a gun. I have children in the house. My future prospects of gun ownership are my own business and not anyone else's.

Canter, defender of all those whacky rights, even the one that says the army can't sleep in my house :)