Ring Restores Police Video Access 41
Ring has restored police access to user video footage and returned to its original crime-prevention mission under founder Jamie Siminoff, who rejoined Amazon in April after a two-year absence. The video doorbell company announced a partnership with law enforcement technology firm Axon that allows police to request footage through Axon's digital evidence management system, effectively reviving a controversial feature Ring discontinued last year.
Siminoff scrapped Ring's socially-focused mission statement "Keep people close to what's important" that Amazon introduced in 2024 and reinstated the company's original mandate to "make neighborhoods safer." The company previously paid $5.8 million to settle Federal Trade Commission allegations of privacy violations in 2023, though Amazon denied wrongdoing.
Siminoff scrapped Ring's socially-focused mission statement "Keep people close to what's important" that Amazon introduced in 2024 and reinstated the company's original mandate to "make neighborhoods safer." The company previously paid $5.8 million to settle Federal Trade Commission allegations of privacy violations in 2023, though Amazon denied wrongdoing.
I'm damn glad I don't have Ring equipment (Score:5, Insightful)
Open standards and self hosted camera DVRs for the win.
You neighbors will keep you safe ... (Score:2)
I'm damn glad I don't have Ring equipment. Open standards and self hosted camera DVRs for the win.
Don't worry, your neighbors will help the police keep you safe. :-)
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I'll gladly give the cops copies of my video if it will help solve a crime, in fact I have done exactly that. But no asky, no video, just as a matter of principle.
According to Google: "Police need a valid legal process like a search warrant or subpoena to obtain Ring doorbell camera footage from Axon"
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This is why I will never buy a Ring (Score:5, Insightful)
Arguing over default of op-out vs op-in? (Score:1)
Someone can just randomly remotely take control of your cameras at your house? no thanks. I don't care why you say you need to be able to do it. hands off.
Your public facing doorbell camera. The same location any random person passing by with a cell phone can record.
Also google reports: "Yes, Ring devices offer several features to enhance video privacy. You can utilize Privacy Zones to block out specific areas within your camera's view from being recorded or monitored. Additionally, Video and Audio Recording can be disabl
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From a purely constitutional perspective, The default *HAS* to be opt in, and they're not respecting constitutional rights by making that the case.
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From a purely constitutional perspective, The default *HAS* to be opt in, and they're not respecting constitutional rights by making that the case.
Is it? The installer EULA may introduce some confusion here?
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"sealed box EULAs override the constitution" --drnb 2025
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it is opt-in on a per case basis
Now, Ring’s partnership with Axon will allow police to solicit footage from Ring users through Axon’s digital evidence management system, though it’s unclear whether this will surface in the Neighbors app. Once the request is sent, Ring users can decide whether or not to send the footage, and if they do, it will be “encrypted and securely added to the case file,” according to Axon. Axon also claims Ring won’t share information about the users who declined to share footage. A source tells Business Insider that Ring is “exploring a new integration with Axon that would enable livestreaming from Ring devices” if customers give permission.
https://www.theverge.com/news/... [theverge.com]
which is what it was before too iirc.
Re:Arguing over default of op-out vs op-in? (Score:5, Informative)
Your public facing doorbell camera. The same location any random person passing by with a cell phone can record.
True, a passer by can record. However, if someone was to park across the street from your house, or mount a camera on tree or utility pole, then record your house 24/7, does the same standard apply? Go ahead, try to install solar powered, internet connected cameras in front of public officials homes, see what happens. Spoiler alert, you will be charged with things like stalking, and other things depending on jurisdiction.
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Your public facing doorbell camera. The same location any random person passing by with a cell phone can record.
True, a passer by can record. However, if someone was to park across the street from your house, or mount a camera on tree or utility pole, then record your house 24/7, does the same standard apply? Go ahead, try to install solar powered, internet connected cameras in front of public officials homes, see what happens. Spoiler alert, you will be charged with things like stalking, and other things depending on jurisdiction.
Not if you are the neighbor. :-)
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Not if you are the neighbor. :-)
Actually, even that depends on the neighborhood/jurisdiction. That is why some cameras have an option to black out portions of the recorder image, to allow the camera owner to comply with such regulations.
Re:Arguing over default of op-out vs op-in? (Score:5, Interesting)
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I don't like that the police have access to this much computer surveillance at once. I'm not supporting a company thats making it happen. Police over and over again prove that they are basically Cartman from Southpark.
Doesn't video undermine the Police's opportunity for abuse? Their power is based on their word against your word, video upsets that.
I think ring is more of a privacy issue, a HD cam on your living room window from your neighbor across the street, or across the sidewalk for condos.
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With Ring here, just watch it become policy that once police request footage it's blocked for you if this actually started becoming a tool for accountability.
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People had that hope for bodycam footage but police were hardly going to let themselves be held accountable... it's now routine to refuse access and cameras 'malfunction' and footage disappears so often to be blatantly deliberate. Good luck getting any footage unless it exonerates them.
Then that undermines the their word against your word tradition.
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Sounds like a wet dream for the Stasi. Look it up if you don't know what that is.
Helping... (Score:1, Troll)
Proudly helping turn America into a surveillance state! It doesn't matter that the crime rates of today are nothing compared to when we were children, we need this stuff to be safe!
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Proudly helping turn America into a surveillance state! It doesn't matter that the crime rates of today are nothing compared to when we were children, we need this stuff to be safe!
That ship sailed when everyone got a camera equipped smartphone. "When we were kids" there was a sci fi short story about everyone having a video camera in their pocket and running around like vigilantes filming everything suspicious. Seems to me we implemented this dystopia already. Putting a camera on our doorbell seems minor in comparison, if with Axon logging. With everyone posting their videos to social media, is there really much difference? Cops go to social media rather than Axon?
That said, I am
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A camera on every home, all run through a program that makes it easily available to the cops, is a pretty big expansion on this.
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A camera on every home, all run through a program that makes it easily available to the cops, is a pretty big expansion on this.
According to Google: "Police need a valid legal process like a search warrant or subpoena to obtain Ring doorbell camera footage from Axon"
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>"With everyone posting their videos to social media, is there really much difference?
Yes, there is.
Comparing random people who might record some active event is not at all the same as remoting into fixed cameras all over the place, potentially without the owner's knowledge or informed consent, to go trolling around.
Being "in public" is starting to warp any sense of privacy argument at this point. When that stuff was relevant to say, there was no such thing as the technology we have now.
How would you/an
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>"With everyone posting their videos to social media, is there really much difference?
Yes, there is. Comparing random people who might record some active event ...
Is pretty much the same thing as random doorbells that might record some active event.
... is not at all the same as remoting into fixed cameras all over the place ...
Which is not what is happening. The video is voluntarily transferred to Axon. The police then request a video (time, place) from Axon.
... potentially without the owner's knowledge or informed consent, .
Pretty sure there is an opt-out, if not an opt-in.
How would you/anyone feel if someone followed behind you and recorded everything you did ....
Not what doorbell cameras do.
It doesn't take much imagination to formulate a very dystopian view of the future.
But that's pretty much smartphones, not doorbell cams.
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>"But that's pretty much smartphones."
Yeah, true that. But a network of more and more cameras knitted together, recording 24/7.... it all amplifies.
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According to Google: "Police need a valid legal process like a search warrant or subpoena to obtain Ring doorbell camera footage from Axon"
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>"According to Google: "Police need a valid legal process like a search warrant or subpoena to obtain Ring doorbell camera footage from Axon"
I would HOPE so. But, color me jaded. A system like this with potentially millions of connected cameras with central control is just SO ripe for abuse in so many ways. Do we really think the three-letter-agencies always go through the correct/legal process? And then there are disgruntled or employees, hackers, accidental security flaws, etc, etc.
Get a warrant or GTFO (Score:4)
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>"Or in most cases they could just ask me. But just remoting in? No way."
Yep, that is why I installed a Unifi system. All local storage, no access to third-parties. Plus integrates really well into their great WiFi/firewall/switch stuff.
Now, if there were an investigation and the police told me what it was about and asked me, I would very likely cooperate and supply the relevant video to them.
And after I installed the cameras, I told my neighbors about it and let them know to contact me if they have ne
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>"Or in most cases they could just ask me. But just remoting in? No way."
Yep, that is why I installed a Unifi system. All local storage, no access to third-parties. Plus integrates really well into their great WiFi/firewall/switch stuff.
Now, if there were an investigation and the police told me what it was about and asked me, I would very likely cooperate and supply the relevant video to them.
And after I installed the cameras, I told my neighbors about it and let them know to contact me if they have need of footage for some reason. I know, insane, right?
This is the way.
An officer who shows up at my door and explains what they're looking for is going to get footage from me ten times out of ten. But on-demand remote access without notice? No.
I'd be okay with Axon's software sending a request to me that I could approve or deny, ideally including a case number, a requesting officer's badge number, the time window being requested, and a one-line description of the case. That's how to gather evidence. It would offer me the opportunity to say things like
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I'd be okay with Axon's software sending a request to me that I could approve or deny, ...
That is how it will work (idk about the case number etc )
(i posted a quote upthread somewhere but see https://www.theverge.com/news/... [theverge.com] )
BLINK doesn't have a "mission to spy on you." (Score:4, Insightful)
> ...returned to its original crime-prevention mission...
That "mission" is law enforcement's mission, not Ring. Go look at Ring's website and you won't find ANY mission let alone providng YOUR video of YOUR property off a camera YOU bought with YOUR money and installed with YOUR time and PAY MONTHLY to access your video... only to give it away to every stormtrooper with a badge.
Mission-creep is one thing, but here's another -- Ring users said they DON'T WANT THEIR VIDEOS SHARED WITH THE stormtroopers, ICE, or any other LEOs. Ring's "leadership team" is clearly not about --in any way-- doing what their paying customers want.
The Blink Doorbell (https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/blink-video-doorbell) doesn't require a monthly subscription, doesn't require you to provide the video, and doesn't share the [lack of provided] video with LEOs.
If you want to support a company with a product that doesn't have a "mission" to spy on you and give footage to the nazis, Blink's a good option.
neighborhood safety is not socially driven? (Score:3, Insightful)
TFA's author makes me wonder how some people see the world, or, more likely how loaded or coded language has become. Or maybe how one has led to the other?
One of his [returning founder's] first moves: scrapping Ring's socially driven mission — "Keep people close to what's important" — which Amazon introduced last year.
In its place, Siminoff reinstated Ring's original mission statement, "Make neighborhoods safer," which suggests the business is going back to its founding identity as a crime-prevention tool.
What does "socially driven" mean there? Is "make neighborhoods safer" NOT a socially driven mission, 'cause it sure sounds like it to me. This author is highly unlikely (imo) to be an anarchist ( https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com] ) so i assume that he's just using "socially driven" as a short hand for "Social Justice Driven" but whether he means it straight or in quotes, idk. But it's still kind of a weird oversight given the topic of the article.
If only William Safire were still around to opine on it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Language )
Limited Security (Score:1)
Doesnâ(TM)t seem like it would be that terribly hard to park down the block and DDoS the site routers taking Ring & friends offline, should you either have something nefarious planned, or in pursuit of LEO activity against nefarious actors.
Its your choice (Score:2)
Well another reason not to buy a Ring doorbell ! (Score:2)