Car Subscription Features Raise Your Risk of Government Surveillance, Police Records Show (wired.com) 47
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Wired: Automakers are increasingly pushing consumers to accept monthly and annual fees to unlock preinstalled safety and performance features, from hands-free driving systems and heated seats to cameras that can automatically record accident situations. But the additional levels of internet connectivity this subscription model requires can increase drivers' exposure to government surveillance and the likelihood of being caught up in police investigations. A cache of more than two dozen police records recently reviewed by WIRED show US law enforcement agencies regularly trained on how to take advantage of "connected cars," with subscription-based features drastically increasing the amount of data that can be accessed during investigations. The records make clear that law enforcement's knowledge of the surveillance far exceeds that of the public and reveal how corporate policies and technologies -- not the law -- determine driver privacy.
"Each manufacturer has their whole protocol on how the operating system in the vehicle utilizes telematics, mobile Wi-Fi, et cetera," one law enforcement officer noted in a presentation prepared by the California State Highway Patrol (CHP) and reviewed by WIRED. The presentation, while undated, contains statistics on connected cars for the year 2024. "If the vehicle has an active subscription," they add, "it does create more data." The CHP presentation, obtained by government transparency nonprofit Property of the People via a public records request, trains police on how to acquire data based on a variety of hypothetical scenarios, each describing how vehicle data can be acquired based on the year, make, and model of a vehicle. The presentation acknowledges that access to data can ultimately be limited due to choices made by not only vehicle manufacturers but the internet service providers on which connected devices rely.
One document notes, for instance, that when a General Motors vehicle is equipped with an active OnStar subscription, it will transmit data -- revealing its location -- roughly twice as often as a Ford vehicle. Different ISPs appear to have not only different capabilities but policies when it comes to responding to government requests for information. Police may be able to rely on AT&T to help identify certain vehicles based on connected devices active in the car but lack the ability to do so when the device relies on a T-Mobile or Verizon network instead. [...] Nearly all subscription-based car features rely on devices that come preinstalled in a vehicle, with a cellular connection necessary only to enable the automaker's recurring-revenue scheme. The ability of car companies to charge users to activate some features is effectively the only reason the car's systems need to communicate with cell towers. The police documents note that companies often hook customers into adopting the services through free trial offers, and in some cases the devices are communicating with cell towers even when users decline to subscribe.
"Each manufacturer has their whole protocol on how the operating system in the vehicle utilizes telematics, mobile Wi-Fi, et cetera," one law enforcement officer noted in a presentation prepared by the California State Highway Patrol (CHP) and reviewed by WIRED. The presentation, while undated, contains statistics on connected cars for the year 2024. "If the vehicle has an active subscription," they add, "it does create more data." The CHP presentation, obtained by government transparency nonprofit Property of the People via a public records request, trains police on how to acquire data based on a variety of hypothetical scenarios, each describing how vehicle data can be acquired based on the year, make, and model of a vehicle. The presentation acknowledges that access to data can ultimately be limited due to choices made by not only vehicle manufacturers but the internet service providers on which connected devices rely.
One document notes, for instance, that when a General Motors vehicle is equipped with an active OnStar subscription, it will transmit data -- revealing its location -- roughly twice as often as a Ford vehicle. Different ISPs appear to have not only different capabilities but policies when it comes to responding to government requests for information. Police may be able to rely on AT&T to help identify certain vehicles based on connected devices active in the car but lack the ability to do so when the device relies on a T-Mobile or Verizon network instead. [...] Nearly all subscription-based car features rely on devices that come preinstalled in a vehicle, with a cellular connection necessary only to enable the automaker's recurring-revenue scheme. The ability of car companies to charge users to activate some features is effectively the only reason the car's systems need to communicate with cell towers. The police documents note that companies often hook customers into adopting the services through free trial offers, and in some cases the devices are communicating with cell towers even when users decline to subscribe.
Has anyone figured out... (Score:5, Interesting)
...how to rip out or physically disable OnStar in vehicles that carry it? It continues to collect data even when you don't have a subscription.
I'm happily driving a 30 year old truck and a newer passenger car that does not have any outside connections or built in cellular modem. I'm afraid it'll be harder to find something like that as time goes on.
Re:Has anyone figured out... (Score:4, Informative)
There are places that offer the removal of cellular connectivity on vehicles as a service. I recall this being kind of a thing for celebrities and politicians that fear being tracked by crazy people and terrorists. (Did I just repeat myself?)
I don't know what such services would cost, obviously it varies with the vehicle. Such a task is not likely something easily taken on as a DIY project as these devices can be buried deep and it would take some expertise to know where all the parts are, remove them without damage to anything critical, and so make reasonably sure the tracking is gone and the vehicle safe to drive.
I do remember reading something on how as the cellular networks are updated many vehicles are losing their connectivity since the cellular modems aren't updated nearly as often as people upgrade their cell phones. So, it's not a matter of having a vehicle so old that there's no cellular anything in it, the vehicle just has to be old enough that nobody supports the cellular hardware in it any more.
If this concern grows large enough then expect an automaker to build vehicles that lack any connectivity in the first place. If the major automakers are smart then they'd offer a means to have it not installed at the factory. That means losing out on subscriptions, but it's that or lose out on the sale in the first place. I have to wonder how long people tolerate all these subscriptions. My guess is that an economic recession will make people reconsider just how many of these subscriptions they need.
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Jammers are quite illegal to use, in some places also to possess, and not very hard to detect when used. Locating one is somewhat resource intensive, but they can usually be detected and potentially geolocated from hundreds or thousands of meters away (a low level of output power is hard to calibrate and local RF environments vary a lot, so they err on the side of using more power than is usually needed): https://insidegnss.com/detecti... [insidegnss.com]
That can earn you five- or six-figure fines as a user, or eight-figur
Re:Has anyone figured out... (Score:4, Informative)
I'm happily driving a 30 year old truck ...
Yup. These stories just make me want to keep my 2001 Civic Ex (133k miles) and 2002 CR-V Ex (60k miles) which are both in good condition and have manual transmissions. I also have the Honda Service for the Civic, which has helped a lot over the years. They'll need painting at some point though.
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Personally I prefer a modern car that I'm far less likely to die in than simply avoiding some digital system, but you do you.
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That's comforting line you can tell St Peter at the Pearly Gates. Personally I prefer my car to be completely and utterly written off while I live to complain about the price on Slashdot.
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Indeed, and they have gotten better over time meaning your 2001 Civic is objectively waaaaay behind the curve.
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Who said anything about loving surveillance? We're talking about putting a price on life nothing more. That said I don't think you'll care much about surveillance when if you become a road fatality statistic so in that regard you'll come around to my point of view if that happens.
The question is how much is an avoidable early end to your life worth?
Re: Has anyone figured out... (Score:2)
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I had an Impala... it was easy, it was in a rear wheel well, accessible from the trunk interior. I disconnected it and then tested all the critical vehicle features to ensure Chevy hadn't routed things through it to make it unremoveable.
They hadn't. I think I lost the OnStar function, which I wasn't subscribing to anyway.
Just google for it for your vehicle. It's not a big deal. Though I believe OnStar used an older cellular network that's no longer active anyway.
Re:Has anyone figured out... (Score:4, Informative)
For many GM vehicles with OnStar, it's not THAT difficult to physically disable the system if you so desire. The controller isn't hard to identify and you simply physically disconnect it. I have done this on my wife's GM SUV as we don't use the service (never subscribed). Here's a simplified example of how to disable it. There's plenty of info online about specific makes/models with instructions to disable.
https://www.wikihow.com/Deacti... [wikihow.com]
Best,
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I attempted to disconnect on OnStar box, but to get to the box I have to disassemble the dash. It is really buried in there.
I can pull the fuse but that turns out to have other side effects.
I thought of disconnecting the cell phone antenna at the antenna end but I don't know which wires in the bundle they are. Cell phone, Sirius (don't need that either), GPS, AM/FM, probably multiple grounds. I need a wiring diagram.
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I'm afraid it'll be harder to find something like that as time goes on.
You're right to be afraid. With EU regulations demanding 100% of cars have emergency calling for several years now 100% of car companies operating in the west will be developing these systems for their baseline vehicle platforms. It will be a difficult discussion with the accountants to then say the feature shouldn't be deployed in all cars in all markets given that they market it as a "value add" while at the same time profiting from the data collected.
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I'm happily driving a 30 year old truck and a newer passenger car that does not have any outside connections or built in cellular modem. I'm afraid it'll be harder to find something like that as time goes on.
Actually, it might not be so bad. The telematics units are shipped with the cellular network technology of the date. In Europe at least, 2G/3G networks are being turned off (in my country, 2G is going away in 2029, in Sweden in 2027). Well, lots of cars have only 2G/3G cellular radios in them, with no w
Event Data Recorder (Score:4, Informative)
Do you know that 95% of all new cars have an "event data recorder" built into them to record key information about the car for a few seconds before a crash? Information like the speed of the car, accelerator position, whether the seatbelts are connected, braking status, and others are all stored in this "black box" inside your car. Accident investigators, insurance companies, and law enforcement can access this information to help during an investigation.
So, how do you know if your car is equipped with an EDR? Their appearance and locations vary widely in vehicles, so it’s important to consult your owner’s manual. Federal law requires that all cars built after Sept. 1, 2012 include a notice in the owner’s manual if a vehicle has an EDR. The manuals for cars built before that date may or may not contain a notice. https://exchange.aaa.com/autom... [aaa.com]
Re:Event Data Recorder (Score:5, Informative)
This is not as much of a problem, since the data recorder is local.
The problem is when they transmit data back to the company, who can be ordered to release it without you knowing about it.
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True. This is more of a FYI post so people in accidents can ask their lawyers or insurance investigators to collaborate the speed at which they were traveling, etc.
I had a friend recently get in an accident and the police wrote him a ticket because the other driver stated he was speeding. Knowing there is an independent record of your vehicle data might be helpful.
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Dash cams work far better than that. I was in a T-bone collision last year. Other driver swore he had a green light. My dash cam trivially disproved him. Providing that video was I all needed to do instead of a drawn out he-said-she-said fight that wouldn't have been solved by a black-box.
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Dash cams work far better than that. I was in a T-bone collision last year. Other driver swore he had a green light. My dash cam trivially disproved him. Providing that video was I all needed to do instead of a drawn out he-said-she-said fight that wouldn't have been solved by a black-box.
Proving innocence. While deeply unpopular here on /. , where people claim everything is leading to 1984's INGSOC world, I use all of this as a way to prove innocence. I make certain the gas station/bank/tollbooth cameras see me, I buy everything on credit card, and am ready to subpoena cell tower records if needed.
I can prove where I was most of the time.
So if people are actually worried about being tracked, they need to toss that addictive little tracking device they have in their pockets.
Re:Event Data Recorder (Score:4, Funny)
I'll have you know the so-called tracking device (cellphone) in my pocket is running GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux, because if I'm going to be insufferable, I'm going to commit. That's right—it's running Ubuntu, not Android. Ubuntu. On a phone. Because I like my daily driver to be a daily adventure.
You think your phone is smart? Mine wakes up every morning unsure if it'll have Wi-Fi or a functioning touchscreen. I don’t get notifications—I get philosophical messages from systemd about the meaning of existence and why my keyboard layout randomly changed to Finnish. Sending a text is a sacred ritual involving dbus-send and the blood of a freshly sacrificed USB cable.
And no, I don’t have an app store. I have the command line and an overinflated sense of self-worth. Want to install a calculator? Hope you're ready to apt-get it like a real adult, followed by half an hour of dependency resolution that makes Dante’s Inferno look like a cozy Airbnb.
I can't use Snapchat, TikTok, or even Google Maps, but I can compile my own kernel on the toilet, and frankly, that feels more spiritually fulfilling. My GPS works if I climb onto the roof and hold the phone at a 37-degree angle while chanting "libre" in Latin. And when people ask "Hey, is that a new phone?" I say "No, it's a new way of life,” and then I vanish in a puff of sudo privileges.
So yeah, while the rest of you are swiping and tapping your lives away in the warm embrace of proprietary comfort, I’m living on the edge, where every reboot is a gamble and every update is a potential act of war.
But at least it's not Android. It’s Ubuntu. And it’s mine.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go recompile my modem driver because I blinked wrong and lost cellular service.
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"So if people are actually worried about being tracked, they need to toss that addictive little tracking device they have in their pockets."
Mine stays in the bookcase. ;-)
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I absolutely agree with pretty much everyone here- I don't want my car transmitting anything. I'll keep my older cars. I do pretty much all the work on them so it's a no-brainer to keep them going.
This is not as much of a problem, since the data recorder is local.
IIRC I've read stories where cops have seized people's cars "because ongoing investigation", even when the cars are okay and perfectly drivable.
I'm pretty sure my cars don't have event recorders, but I'm not 100% sure.
I also have, and won't drive without, a dashcam. I also worry that cops might seize it.
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This is not as much of a problem, since the data recorder is local.
The problem is when they transmit data back to the company, who can be ordered to release it without you knowing about it.
This, a local data recorder is only a problem if you drive like a dick and intend to lie to the police and insurers about it.
Data being collected, then given or sold without your knowledge or permission is another matter entirely. Unfortunately as long as this is legal, they'll keep doing it.
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Do you know that 95% of all new cars have an "event data recorder" built into them to record key information about the car for a few seconds before a crash?
100% of all new cars with SRS have this, which is more than 95% of vehicles sold. It stores 30 seconds before and after an airbag activation.
Captain Obvious is it? Pleased to meet you. (Score:1)
Who didn't see this coming? Of course such technology would be abused.
I expect to see in the near future more and more people "unplugging" as many devices from the internet as they can. That's not the same as people unplugging themselves. I expect people will still want to be able to make phone calls, surf the web, consume streamed content, and so much else. What they will do though is keep the devices with internet connectivity to a smaller number of devices, and those devices that are connected will b
Re: Captain Obvious is it? Pleased to meet you. (Score:2)
âoeMaybe the government needs to get involvedâ - and do what? The government wants to be able to buy that data so it can get around those pesky civil rights.
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Who didn't see this coming? Of course such technology would be abused.
I expect to see in the near future more and more people "unplugging" as many devices from the internet as they can. That's not the same as people unplugging themselves. I expect people will still want to be able to make phone calls, surf the web, consume streamed content, and so much else.
And then there is the Cellular system, which is completely based on locating the phones. Those towers keep logs, and popo can access them. Then again, so can you if you need the data for an alabi.
Worse than your phone? (Score:3)
Welcome to the surveillance state 2.0 (Score:2)
Your choices: Bicycle for short distances, horse-back (? donno), use public transport for long distances (mostly absent in US) or agree to be surveilled.
BTW, do motorbikes have all of this stuff too?
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... or agree to be surveilled. BTW, do motorbikes have all of this stuff too?
Nobody's forbidding you to just pull the SIM card out of your car, or take a wire cutter to the power supply of the mobile transmitter the car uses to phone home if you are really paranoid.
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Nobody's forbidding you to just pull the SIM card out of your car, or take a wire cutter to the power supply of the mobile transmitter the car uses to phone home if you are really paranoid.
Oh good... I'd been worried that manufacturers could use e-sims baked into the main boards, and/or that they might cripple the car absent a proven working connection. Now that you've put my fears to rest, can you send a link to the precise directions to remove the sim from my 2024 Accord?
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Now that you've put my fears to rest, can you send a link to the precise directions to remove the sim from my 2024 Accord?
Step 1: Get service manual
Step 2: Read instructions
Step 3: Follow instructions
Only slightly tongue in cheek. Most communications modules have a visible (and possibly even fully external, as in, remotely located) antenna. That's the easiest thing for you to attack.
If you obey the law (Score:2)
then you have nothing to hide, citizen.
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You get free 4G mobile connectivity. But not free data. These SIMs are licensed under specific vehicle only plans and are severely limited in speed and data unless the licensee pays for service (which some companies do for a couple of years in a new car).
All the more reason to fix, not replace. (Score:2)
All the more reason to fix, not replace.
Fuck the automakers and their insatiable appetite for money, which manifests in robbing you of your privacy and data.
Do the world a favor. If you have a pre-2014 car, treat it with love, respect and care. Maintain it so it doesn't break much, and when it does, fix it --- don't replace it. They literally don't make 'em like that anymore.
Re: All the more reason to fix, not replace. (Score:2)
No shit? (Score:1)
You don't say!
I'm shocked... SHOCKED!
I only worry about the cost (Score:2)
I'm not at all worried about the threat of increased government surveillance with car subscriptions. Why? Because the cars are already connected. Just because I don't pay the subscription doesn't mean that data isn't being collected. The collection is completely unrelated to the subscription.
However, I am outraged by these subscriptions, but only because of the cost.