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Google Government The Courts Chrome United States

US Regulators Seek To Break Up Google, Forcing Chrome Sale (apnews.com) 137

In a 23-page document (PDF) filed late Wednesday, U.S. regulators asked a federal judge to break up Google after a court found the tech giant of maintaining an abusive monopoly through its dominant search engine. As punishment, the DOJ calls for a sale of Google's Chrome browser and restrictions to prevent Android from favoring its own search engine. The Associated Press reports: Although regulators stopped short of demanding Google sell Android too, they asserted the judge should make it clear the company could still be required to divest its smartphone operating system if its oversight committee continues to see evidence of misconduct. [...] The Washington, D.C. court hearings on Google's punishment are scheduled to begin in April and Mehta is aiming to issue his final decision before Labor Day. If [U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta] embraces the government's recommendations, Google would be forced to sell its 16-year-old Chrome browser within six months of the final ruling. But the company certainly would appeal any punishment, potentially prolonging a legal tussle that has dragged on for more than four years.

Besides seeking a Chrome spinoff and a corralling of the Android software, the Justice Department wants the judge to ban Google from forging multibillion-dollar deals to lock in its dominant search engine as the default option on Apple's iPhone and other devices. It would also ban Google from favoring its own services, such as YouTube or its recently-launched artificial intelligence platform, Gemini. Regulators also want Google to license the search index data it collects from people's queries to its rivals, giving them a better chance at competing with the tech giant. On the commercial side of its search engine, Google would be required to provide more transparency into how it sets the prices that advertisers pay to be listed near the top of some targeted search results. The measures, if they are ordered, threaten to upend a business expected to generate more than $300 billion in revenue this year.
"The playing field is not level because of Google's conduct, and Google's quality reflects the ill-gotten gains of an advantage illegally acquired," the Justice Department asserted in its recommendations. "The remedy must close this gap and deprive Google of these advantages."

US Regulators Seek To Break Up Google, Forcing Chrome Sale

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  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @12:21AM (#64961601)
    And I'm sure all this will go away.

    Jokes aside there are already several companies looking to advertise back on Twitter even though none of their concerns about their advertisements being displayed next to extremist content have been addressed...

    I am not going to hold my breath for any antitrust law enforcement in the next 4 years. We will be extremely lucky if the grocery store mergers going on fail because if they don't expect all of our grocery bills to go up 20 or 30%.

    We were warned we just didn't listen.
    • Why do you consider this a joke? This is exactly how foreign powers dealt with the US 4 years ago.
    • Companies have only one concern - to make as much money as possible.

      They pulled out of Twitter because they thought that people would not like if their ads were displayed "next to extremist content". Because Trump won the election, the same companies decided that maybe the opinions of people are different and now are also trying to suck up to Musk.

      The same companies would display a Swastika on their logo or wherever if they thought it would get them more money.

      • With those mental gymnastics. Twitter is down to less than 300 million real users. They weren't a particularly useful advertising platform when they had twice that.

        It's bribes. They're bribing Donald Trump through Elon musk. And it's not even quid pro quo. Donald Trump has made it clear he intends to use the federal government as a weapon.

        You know this of course. But for some crazy ass reason you and people like you are okay with that.

        It'll bite you in the ass of course. If you're younger or if
        • by Pentium100 ( 1240090 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @09:24AM (#64962173)

          I am not in the US. I am in a country that is close to Russia and if Russia wins in Ukraine, Putin may come for us next, even though my country is a NATO member.

          As for the tariffs - I see it as "do it now or do it later but more expensive", just like Germany with gas. Germany had a chance to build LNG terminals slowly and possibly cheaper to have an alternative source for the gas, but they decided to wait until Putin invaded Ukraine a second time (since the occupation of Crimea only prompted Germany to build a new pipeline to Russia). Then they paid through the nose for the gas while also rushing the building of LNG terminals before Putin closed the valve.

          Same with manufacturing in China. All is great right now, China provides cheap stuff. Until China decides to invade Taiwan or whatever and then all manufacturing will have to return to the US overnight, because either the US will impose sanctions on China or China will just kick out the American companies while keeping their factories. So, the US has to get the factories back slowly before the time comes to do it quickly.

          • and yeah, you're next, which makes it weirder. You know Russia doesn't have the resources to occupy you, so they're going to have to kill you in order to take the land.

            Anyway, tariffs protect local business *if* you have one. The US doesn't. We shipped all that overseas. So all tariffs do is make everything more expensive, increase inflation, cause the federal reserve to hike interest rates which gets people fired (that's by design, that's how interest rate hikes "fight" inflation)

            Tariffs aren't get
    • I am not going to hold my breath for any antitrust law enforcement in the next 4 years.

      Trump will be more than happy to use the Justice department in a vindictive way against companies he doesn't like.

  • DoubleClick? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by stoborrobots ( 577882 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @12:21AM (#64961603)

    Why Chrome and not DoubleClick - I feel like the adtech and tracking services cause at least as much abuse of privacy as the browser...

    • by sosume ( 680416 )

      No -the question is, why Google and Microsoft, but not Apple?

      • Re:DoubleClick? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @05:26AM (#64961877) Journal

        Speaking only from personal anecdote; Apple has zero impact on my daily life. I can count the number of times I have had to interact/deal with Apple products and services in the past year on one hand. Apple's bullshit is only a problem for people who have bought into their ecosystem.

        It is literally impossible for me to go about my typical day without dealing with Google's and/or Microsoft's bullshit. They are both much more deeply entrenched in every aspect of society and industry, and consequently much more of a problem.
        =Smidge=

        • Apple's monopoly also affects people like me, who have family and friends that use Apple products, while I don't. There are many ways Apple makes it difficult to exchange things with them, as simple as videos and pictures via text.

          I'm happy Apple's antics don't affect you. Some of us aren't so lucky.

          • Apple's monopoly also affects people like me, who have family and friends that use Apple products, while I don't.

            The fact that you don't indicates that Apple is not a monopoly. If they were a monopoly, they would be the only source for the products you use.

            The post you are responding to clarifies what a monopoly is:

            It is literally impossible for me to go about my typical day without dealing with Google's and/or Microsoft's bullshit. They are both much more deeply entrenched in every aspect of society and industry

            If you can't avoid dealing with them, that's a monopoly.

            • If you want to be pedantic, you are correct, Apple is not a monopoly. If "monopoly" means there is absolutely only one of anything, then there is no such thing as a monopoly anywhere, of any kind, because there is always another choice, however small and unuseful that other choice might be.

              Antitrust laws cover monopolies, duopolies, and oligopolies, because they all have similar detrimental impacts on the market.

              So to be pedantic, Apple and Google form a smartphone and app *duopoly." The effects are the sam

          • Sorry about your acquaintances, but they bought into the ecosystem. It's on you that you allow it to be your problem too.

            However, next time you are dealing with basically any business, or virtually any web-related activity, or even a scary number of computer programs/apps you might run (hint: Chromium), you are dealing with Google/Microsoft in some form. It is absolutely inescapable.
            =Smidge=

            • It's on you that you allow it to be your problem too.

              How exactly do I "fix" the problems with receiving videos or photos from them? I can't just "stop allowing" that to be a problem.

      • Apple isn't getting off the hook, the DOJ is suing them for antitrust violations too.

        https://www.npr.org/2024/09/20... [npr.org]

      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        No -the question is, why Google and Microsoft, but not Apple?

        Because Apple keeps to itself. If you're involved with its ecosystem, you can avoid Apple. Apple has the original WebKit engine, Google forked it for Chromium (and called it blink) and Microsoft used that fork as well. So while Apple may be the OG browser engine, it's only used on Apple's devices.

        Likewise, Apple doesn't provide stuff to third parties - you cannot run (officially) iOS on a non-Apple phone. Or run macOS on a non-Apple computer. Ever

    • by nmb3000 ( 741169 )

      Why Chrome and not DoubleClick

      Completely agree. I was really hoping that the outcome of this DOJ ruling would be mandating that Google split off their advertising business.

      The bundling of advertising and all their other products is the specific reason that the other products have gotten so anti-consumer and shitty. Whether it's Search, or Gmail, or YouTube, or Chrome -- the driving force behind all their development is "How do we maximize advertising revenue, regardless of the cost to user enjoyment, privacy, security, or safety?".

      If

  • Chrome needs to be on it's own and full adblock needs to be allowed

  • Entirely bogus (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Google just has to cook up some delays until the new administration takes over and dismisses the case. Besides, Google is a "monopoly" by consumer choice, not because there are no alternatives. This isn't like the old railroad and oil monopolies that were screwing over the farmers

    • by JBMcB ( 73720 )

      At some point monopoly has been redefined from there being one company completely dominant in an entire industry with no real alternatives, to one company having significant market share in certain market sectors along with several others, sometimes in markets they have created themselves.

  • by Bookwyrm ( 3535 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @12:30AM (#64961615)

    Outside of any potential technical difficulties of selling Chrome (code base, licensing, patents, etc. Presumably Chrome as a 'brand' would also be packaged, and so on) just who do they expect would *buy* it? And who gets to set the price?

    One also suspects that if foreign companies attempted to buy Chrome, there would be protests/lawsuits/whatever.

    Or rather, if someone bought Chrome, how would the purchaser expect to make money with Chrome? Charge for it? Or do... exactly what Google is doing now? And if there is no way to make a profit from the purchase, why would anyone be interested in buying Chrome?

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Same way all the other browser vendors do. Take money to be the default search engine, integrate crapware and ads. Maybe install Bonzi Buddy along side it.

      The best option would be to spin it off as a non-profit.

    • I think this is an important point. Google finds value in Chrome, because they use it to indirectly support their advertising and data gathering businesses. If Chrome belonged to someone else, it is difficult to see what value it would have. Unless, of course, the buyer cut a deal with Google, to support Google's advertising and data gathering businesses. :-/

      Honestly, I think this proposal is a back-door attempt by Google to prevent a much more serious (and much needed) breakup. Google (or rather Alphabet)

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @07:56AM (#64961991) Homepage Journal

        I think this is an important point. Google finds value in Chrome, because they use it to indirectly support their advertising and data gathering businesses. If Chrome belonged to someone else, it is difficult to see what value it would have. Unless, of course, the buyer cut a deal with Google, to support Google's advertising and data gathering businesses. :-/

        Google also finds value in Chrome because Android has to have a browser, and at the time it was created, the only other browser that would have been usable as a mobile browser was Safari. Google worked with their direct operating system competitor to make WebKit a platform that was good enough as a mobile browser, and used that platform as the basis for Chrome.

        The sad reality is that there is no money in web browsers. They're a money pit. Users won't tolerate browsers that inject ads, and for the most part, users won't pay for web browsers, so there's no viable funding source except for the money that browsers get from making Google the default search engine. As a result, Google basically funds development of Chrome, Firefox, and Safari, almost singlehandedly.

        It isn't entirely selfless, of course. Without browsers, Google Search wouldn't be all that useful. So keeping browser development going does support Google's interests, but it has nothing to do with ads, except to the extent that ads pay the bills for Search.

        I'm really not sure why the DOJ thinks anyone else would want Chrome. The best possible outcome would be Google spinning off Chrome into a separate company, but continuing to pay huge sums of money to that company for the purposes of keeping Chrome from instantly going bankrupt, and I'm really not sure what good that would do anyone. As long as Google is funding it, they'll still end up doing Google's bidding, and I don't see any realistic alternative, because almost nobody but Google has the deep pockets necessary to fund it, and almost nobody else has the motivation to do so, either, as evidenced by ~86% of Mozilla's annual budget coming from Google.

        I mean... unless they think they can get Google to finance it with enough money that the resulting company can survive on the interest/stock market gains alone, who in their right minds would take Chrome? It would be as smart a business deal as buying 23andMe.

        • Android has to have a browser, and at the time it was created, the only other browser that would have been usable as a mobile browser was Safari.

          Sounds like someone completely forgot about the existence of Opera Mobile [arstechnica.com], the browser that HTC started installing by default on WinMo phones to make web browsing tolerable. Dare I say it...OM10 was actually better than the contemporary version of Safari on the iPhone, so Google absolutely could have used it on Android if they wanted. ...but the better variant of your point is that Chrome was needed on the desktop, more than in the mobile space. Firefox provided Windows users an alternative to IE6, but I th

        • by codemachine ( 245871 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @01:29PM (#64962845)

          Before Chrome, Google didn't have their own browser and just sent huge amounts of money to Firefox. Bringing the browser in house led to some innovation, but it also led to some abuse of power.

          The only major browser focused company who has managed to stay alive and independent was/is almost entirely funded by Google. The other browsers with decent share (Edge, Safari) are all bundled with a platform just like Chrome is bundled with Android and ChromeOS. Any other browsers are just slight variations on Firefox or Chromium that couldn't survive without those projects.

          It seems silly to allow Microsoft and Apple to bundle their own webkit based browsers with their platforms and then require Google to divest Chrome and not to have a browser at all. Plus how do you spin off Chrome (or any browser really) and not have it 100% dependant on a partnership with Google/Alphabet?

          I'm not sure what the answer is. Google is definitely abusing their position to support their ad and search business, so something should be done about it. Apple rejects some of Google's additions because they're not an ad business and want to protect the privacy of their users, so that is great. They also purposefully hold back additions that would allow the browser to be a full-fledged application platform that would allow people to sidestep their app store (and therefore their cut). The browser space is a mess of competing corporate agendas.

          • Apple rejects some of Google's additions because they're not an ad business

            Apple is now an ad business, too, FWIW. It's a fairly small portion of their revenue, but Apple's ad business is growing fast, expected to reach $11B in 2024, and $14B by 2026.

    • Obviously, Google doesn't sell Chrome. Google uses it to ensure that its other businesses, like DoubleClick and Search, retain their own monopolies.

    • Beyond that, what do they expect Google to do afterward? OK, they lose ownership of Chrome and Chromium. But they can fork Chromium the next day, create their own Google Platinum browser and release it maybe a week later.

    • Outside of any potential technical difficulties of selling Chrome (code base, licensing, patents, etc. Presumably Chrome as a 'brand' would also be packaged, and so on) just who do they expect would *buy* it? And who gets to set the price?

      One also suspects that if foreign companies attempted to buy Chrome, there would be protests/lawsuits/whatever.

      Or rather, if someone bought Chrome, how would the purchaser expect to make money with Chrome? Charge for it? Or do... exactly what Google is doing now? And if there is no way to make a profit from the purchase, why would anyone be interested in buying Chrome?

      I doubt anything much comes of this, but...

      The way breakups work now? Some subsidiary arm of Google, not easily traced back to Google, or Alphabet, would take over. Probably under some amalgamation of names of competitors. Like Bravefox, or Operafire or some shit, trying to tie it to these other browsers that sorta/kinda have a market share. Then, in a few years, they'll be reabsorbed into the parent company, and proles will be whining about how much better it was when they were under their own name.

      Nobody'

  • What sort of for-profit company would want to develop a web browser? Excluding Google of course.
    Microsoft going to buy it? :)

  • Once the orange dorito takes over.

  • Alphabet will wait until Trump takes office, sign a consent decree, and then the Justice Department will agree. Shades of Microsoft...

    JoskK.

    • Is there any reason to believe Trump likes Google?
      • Nah, but he's easily manipulated. They'll make the daily Google Doodle a celebration of Trump as the greatest president since Lincoln, throw Musk a few million in X ad buys, and the lawsuit will go away.
  • by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 ) on Thursday November 21, 2024 @04:03AM (#64961817)

    There are two consumer electronic ecosystems at the moment, Google's and Apple's. With Google's ecosystem losing ground due to poor integration and control (ChromeOS should have stayed a proper operating system with local applications, web only is too limited, Google should have full control over Android software&updates similar to ChromeOS) and because being an advertising first company will always relegate them to the low end.

    Apple's ecosystem is especially dangerous because the vertical integration defacto precludes competition in an increasing number of markets. They hoover up winners through acquisitions, make it part of the ecosystem and the barrier to entry gets a little higher again ... this is completely unsustainable.

    Removing Google will just accelerate Apple's damage. Either change something fundamental about the consumer electronic market (ban hardware vertical integration for instance) or leave Google alone for now, their vertical integration of services and advertising to create barriers to entry is what allows them to compete with Apple and keep some competition in hardware going for now.

    • ChromeOS should have stayed a proper operating system with local applications, web only is too limited

      Locally cached HTML5/Javasript/WebASM aren't exactly limited. The problem is that they didn't jump into making web sites act like local apps sooner. Nobody wants a device that just runs Chrome with 100 tabs. They want an OS with a visual metaphor separating each "app" (like the Windows task bar). They do have this, but they didn't really push it on Windows or Mac so people have to relearn a lot to go to a ChromeOS device.

  • Instead of forcing Google to sell Chrome, they should instead force Google to change Chrome. Force Google to restore the features used by ad blockers. Force Google to stop the "wouldn't you rather use Chrome" messages you get if you visit certain Google websites with alternative browsers. Force Google to remove features added to Chrome that benefit its own services at the expense of others.

  • If you're going after Google, go after the other monopolies: Amazon, Apple, and Microsoft. At the same time, while you're at it, go after Visa and Mastercard, which have 80% market dominance and a 50% gross margin on credit card swipes and terminal fees as well as processing.

  • I'm going to make the same argument that I made with Microsoft back in the day.

    If you spin off Chrome, you now have 2 companies that are monopolies. Only one is in search and one is in web browsers, and nothing sort of direct litigation will stop them from having a cordial relationship. Hell, it's even easier to see here since they already split themself up into separate subsidiaries when they decided to become Alphabet and were clearly preparing for a breakup.

    The best approach would be identical to what w

  • by whitroth ( 9367 ) <whitroth@[ ]ent.us ['5-c' in gap]> on Thursday November 21, 2024 @12:18PM (#64962691) Homepage

    Y'all like monopolies. But I thought you liked the "free market".You can't have both.

    And M$ bundled its browser to illegally kill competition by other browsers who'd been out first... and Internet Exploder was a disaster (ask someone who actually had to code to allow it to work with *any* other browser).

    But maybe they should do more... https://pluralistic.net/2024/1... [pluralistic.net]

  • When breaking up of Microsoft was considered, it was suggested that the two parts be called MICROS~1 and MICROS~2. What should the pieces of Google be called?

    G o o o o o o o o g l e ?

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