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Privacy Crime Iphone Apple

Epic Games CEO Criticized For Calling Apple's 'Find My' Feature 'Super Creepy' (macrumors.com) 176

Slashdot reader Applehu Akbar shared this report from MacRumors: Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney commented on Apple's 'Find My' service, referring to it as "super creepy surveillance tech" that "shouldn't exist." Sweeney went on to explain that several years ago, "a kid" stole a Mac laptop out of his car. Years later, Sweeney was checking Find My, and as the Mac was still connected to his Apple ID account, it showed him the location where the thief lived.
When someone asked Sweeney if he'd at least gotten his laptop back, Sweeney answered "No. I was creeped the hell out by having unexpectedly received the kid's address, and turned off Find My iPhone on all of my devices."

Slashdot reader crmarvin42 quipped "Tell me you are stupidly rich, without telling me you are stupidly rich... Next someone will be saying that it is 'Creepy' to have security footage of someone taking your Amazon packages off of your porch." And they also questioned Sweeney's sincerity, suggesting that he's "just saying that to try and make Apple look bad because of all the lawsuits going on."

MacRumors followed the ensuing discussion: Sweeney said that the location of a device in someone's possession can't be tracked without tracking the person, and "people have a right to privacy." ["This right applies to second hand device buyers and even to thieves."] He claims that detection and recovery of a lost or stolen device should be "mediated by due process of law" and not exposed to the device owner "in vigilante fashion."
Some responded to Sweeney's comments by sharing the headline of a Vox news story about Epic's own privacy polices. ("Fortnite maker Epic Games has to pay $520 million for tricking kids and violating their privacy.")

MacRumors cited a 2014 report that thefts of iPhones dropped after the introduction of Apple's "Activation Lock" feature (which prevents the disabling of 'Find My' without a password).

But when the blog AppleInsider accused Sweeney of "an incredibly bad leap of logic" — Sweeney responded. "You're idealizing this issue as good guys tracking criminals to their lairs, but when Find My or Google's similar tech points a device owner to a device possessor's home, one must anticipate the presence of families and kids and innocent used device buyers, and ask whether it's really appropriate for a platform to use GPS and shadowy mesh network tech to set up physical confrontations among individuals."

Sweeney also posted a quote from Steve Jobs about how at Apple, "we worry that some 14-year-old is going to get stalked and something terrible is going to happen because of our phone."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Epic Games CEO Criticized For Calling Apple's 'Find My' Feature 'Super Creepy'

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  • What bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @05:43PM (#64678698)

    Find My is a feature for figuring out where you left your thing. Usually it tracks my phone to my car.

    If some asshole stole it and they get tracked that's a side benefit.

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      Well, sure. But people have been abusing that capability from day one -- e.g. creepers who drop airtags or even AirPods in women's bags to track their movements and figure out where they live.

      I think most of us would agree that a thief doesn't have a reasonable expectation of privacy with respect to the location of the goods he has stolen. But there's really nothing inherent in the technology that restricts it to reasonable uses. If you deploy it widely, you inevitably enable abuses, and it's perfectly

      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        creepers who drop airtags or even AirPods in women's bags to track their movements

        I may have missed the details on how Apples "Find my ..." system works. But I was under the impression that you could only find stuff tied to your own account. So, good for finding your own stuff. But if you drop a tag linked to your account in someone else's bag and they find it, you've got some serious explaining to do.

        And although the system is encrypted/anonymous to third parties, it is possible to sniff for the presence of a tracker. And then turn the stalking case over to law enforcement.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        You have to be a special kind of idiot to track someone using a device belonging and registered to yourself. If you want to do that you buy a properly anonymous one that are widely available, with none of the protections the big tech companies implement.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Remember this is the CEO of Epic Games complaining. His wealth puts him in a rarefied air of "I can lose stuff and not care".

      He can lose a laptop a day and it won't have any fiscal impact on his standard of living.

      So yeah, he can turn it off, he loses a laptop, no big deal, he just goes and buys another one. Its no big deal.

      Misplacing stuff and having to suffer because someone stole your phone or laptop is a prole question that doesn't concern him.

      • Remember this is the CEO of Epic Games complaining. His wealth puts him in a rarefied air of "I can lose stuff and not care".

        He can lose a laptop a day and it won't have any fiscal impact on his standard of living.

        So yeah, he can turn it off, he loses a laptop, no big deal, he just goes and buys another one. Its no big deal.

        Misplacing stuff and having to suffer because someone stole your phone or laptop is a prole question that doesn't concern him.

        Precisely.

        He's not a "FindMy" target customer, especially when concerning Stolen Property.

        He is, however, a potential "Remote Wipe" Customer; but he doesn't talk about that.

    • Unless when, as in this story, the asshole is a kid and you find yourself involuntarily stalking underage kids.

    • by jsepeta ( 412566 )

      The social contract stipulates that we must act according to the laws of society, or risk losing our rights. If someone steals a thing, they have broken the law, and thus should not have full ownership of all their previous rights. Losing your privacy because someone is tracking the items you stole simply seems like fair play. But it's not as if a billionaire asshole would care about the social contract, as the extreme greed demonstrated by hoarding such wealth is an example of someone who simply hates the

    • Find My is a feature for figuring out where you left your thing. Usually it tracks my phone to my car.

      If some asshole stole it and they get tracked that's a side benefit.

      Ummm, it is still creepy... YOU are not the only one who has access to that information. That is why it is creepy.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @05:46PM (#64678702)

    Thieves have a right to privacy with regards to stolen stuff? He seriously believes that?

    This is the sort of garbage "thinking" that leads to those crap "defund the police" movements that caused so many issues (and, shortly after, led to many successful "retire the clueless politicians" movements).

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It's the people targeting you and the people you care about that should concern you. AirTags are a stalker's dream.

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      "This is the sort of garbage "thinking" that leads to those crap "defund the police" " You mean like those MagaDolts in Congress wanting to defund the FBI and the Justice Department. I agree, it caused many issues but unfortunately is not leading to "retire the clueless politicians". They are like cockroaches and will be here long after the Earth passes away, whining to the aether about their latest umbrage.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

      Defunding the police is a terrible slogan, but then there's not really a good one that's catchy. Police reform doesn't really say anything, although it is what is badly needed.

      Some police departments clearly do have too much money, as they are spending it on military equipment designed to be used in warzones, not neighborhoods.

      The idea is not to take the money away from police and spend it on nothing; the money diverted from police departments failing their mandate to protect and serve is ideally spent redu

      • They have no arguments against what I'm saying, so they downmod my political statements.

        The so-called free speech absolutist conservatives never have believed in free speech and never will. They will always try to silence anyone with superior ideas, because they know their ideas are inbred and malformed, just like they are.

    • Thieves have a right to privacy with regards to stolen stuff? He seriously believes that?

      This is the sort of garbage "thinking" that leads to those crap "defund the police" movements that caused so many issues (and, shortly after, led to many successful "retire the clueless politicians" movements).

      Yes, of course it's bizarre.

      It's perfectly consistent with all the "respectable" positions though. "Migrants" have a right to live in your country. Home invaders have a right not to be shot. The "unhoused" have a right to crap on your sidewalk. The people burning down your neighborhood have a right to beat the crap out of you if you try to stop them.. Etc.

      There's nothing illogical in this position of the Epic guy, compared to all the others.

    • This is an example of Sweeney's zealotry where his hatred of something defies common sense. In his fight with Apple, he tried to convince Valve to lower their 30% commission as a move of solidarity to irk Apple. Valve would not enter into a battle that had nothing to do with them but responded that they just created a sliding royalty system where games with higher sales got lower commission fees. Sweeney called them "assholes." To be clear, Sweeney was upset that Valve's royalty structure gave better custom
  • by NotEmmanuelGoldstein ( 6423622 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @05:47PM (#64678704)

    ... anticipate the presence of families and kids and innocent ...

    On the one hand, yay for calling-out the USA's I'm-the-hero-so-I-can-commit-crimes mentality. OTOH, it's not the fault of the victim, a stolen device identifies the thief.

    • by pjt33 ( 739471 )

      I note that your quote cuts off three words which expose the flaw in your claim: "used device buyers". The person currently in possession of the stolen device doesn't necessarily know it's stolen. A single narrative can have multiple victims, and vigilante justice without due process is a good way to bring that about.

      • Maybe it's different in America, but here in the UK I'm finding it hard to think of a situation where someone could buy a stolen laptop or phone or suchlike, and not know it is stolen. "Can you factory reset it for me?" "Sorry, no." "Oh, so it's stolen then?!"

        If you knowingly buy a stolen device, you're in the same scummy camp as the thief themself. I'm not saying thieving scum should be shot in the face, but most of them don't just steal once. It's a way of life. Sure, they don't deserve death... but they

  • Where's the news? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sound+vision ( 884283 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @05:55PM (#64678708) Journal

    Let's say I don't give a shit about the CEO of Epic Games. Why would I read this article?

    • Let's say I don't give a shit about the CEO of Epic Games. Why would I read this article?

      And even more importantly, why would you comment?

      • by jhoegl ( 638955 )
        Im glad you asked little buddy

        To get people to ask the question to themselves instead of being caught up in sensationalist furvor of media outrage.

        Stay in school and keep asking questions!
    • Let's say I don't give a shit about the CEO of Epic Games. Why would I read this article?

      Clearly you do. People who don't give a shit tend to not comment on something. You give a lot of shits about this, so many it appears to make you angry enough to write a letter on Slashdot, Keren.

    • Let's say I don't give a shit about the CEO of Epic Games. Why would I read this article?

      It's a tech CEO saying that surveillance in all things is kinda creepy. It's the opposite message we've gotten from literally every other tech CEO over the last couple decades, who all seem to want more and more and more data about every little thing you do. Who cares if it's coming from an out of touch tech CEO. We should be surprised one of them managed such a narrative shirking statement at all.

  • I disabled the tracking feature on my new phone because I value my privacy from especially corporate entities.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't mind the tracking if it only activated after a number of days not tapping a protected reset timer on the phone.

  • by locater16 ( 2326718 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @06:10PM (#64678736)
    Just be so rich I can afford to lose a $1k+ laptop without a care in the world, my god why didn't I think of that?
  • Can be used for both good and bad. Its a slashdot exclusive. Only available here!
  • by TigerPlish ( 174064 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @07:16PM (#64678822)

    Wasn't Epic vs. Apple a thing? And now CEO of Epic hurling stones at Apple for Find My?

    I smell an attempt to drum up points, somehow.. or maybe too much sauce. IDK man, this sounds more like an unhinged rant.

    I use Find My and airtags. Some of it is for recovery or clues to where it is, should something wander way. And they will do that -- i've had bikes stolen, jackets taken, etc. Way back in the day, mind you. But why wait for it to happen again? Airtag what you want to find and has a good chance of walking away.

    Some of it was unexpected. Say you have an airtag in your car (I do.) Park car, go into the place you're going, come out of a different door than you came in. You don't know the layout. Pop up Maps, and your car -- because of the airtag -- will show up as "Parked Car." I wasn't expecting that. The first time it happened I was quite pleased.

    I am an epic scatterbrain. I'll leave my umbrella in a sandwich shop. I'll leave my keys on my desk on my way to get the car for lunch. I'll leave an iPad behind at my teacher's. I have an alert set up to ping me if I leave such a thing behind.

    Airtag in luggage is a great idea. My backpack has one, so does any luggage I fly or drive with. It forces the airlines / hotels / trains / whatever to be a bit more truthful about baggage.

    Tool for good or evil, depends on the wielder. Always has, always will. That part will never change.

    • Small FYI, "Parked Car" showing up on Apple Maps is not related to an airtag (the cars have their own, non-Apple GPS tracking system). I don't have air tags in my car, yet Parked Car shows up in Apple Maps.
      • Small FYI, "Parked Car" showing up on Apple Maps is not related to an airtag (the cars have their own, non-Apple GPS tracking system). I don't have air tags in my car, yet Parked Car shows up in Apple Maps.

        This sounds like the iDevice was attached to the car via Bluetooth. Some cars are auto-id'd as "vehicles" while others have to be configured in Settings -> Bluetooth. In any case, my to my delight, my paired iPhone marks my parking spot whenever I take the key out of the ignition.

  • The person being tracked does not know. The find my network is no hidden secret so when you steel an apple device you are willingly giving up any reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to the location of the stollen device. Sad thing is the functionality works. A few yeas ago my car was window shopped and my bag was stolen which had my tablet in it. As soon as I discovered this fact I locked it. three days later I got a call from a random stranger saying they found my locked iPad in their back yard
  • by Austerity Empowers ( 669817 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @07:39PM (#64678850)

    This guys war on Apple is starting to remind me of SCO.

    • No they are nothing alike. Darl McBride stuck to commenting stupidly about the case at hand rather than rambling about irrelevant side tangents while doing his best to appear as out of touch with normal people as possible.

    • Darl McBride was in it for the money. He had hoped IBM would just pay to make it go away. The IBM of old would rather sue a company into bankruptcy instead of paying any extortion amount. Sweeney is a zealot that hates being told no. When the court asked Epic why they did not also sue Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony for having the exact same royalty amount, Epic did not present any compelling legal arguments. The real reason was Sweeney was mad at Apple and Google for telling him no.
    • We should celebrate when the rich / powerful fight others of a similar capability.

      There is a decent chance that the average joe benefits from it.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • He claims that detection and recovery of a lost or stolen device should be "mediated by due process of law"

    Officer. I misplaced my car keys again.

  • by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Saturday August 03, 2024 @09:32PM (#64678986) Journal

    ...we used to punish criminals and care about the victims?

    Want an example of why some people believe the western world is fundamentally fucked up, there you go.

  • You must have Epic level of wealth to not worry about where your apple devices are. Many of us save for years to have the funds for a MacBook Pro for example.
  • Years later, Sweeney was checking Find My, and as the Mac was still connected to his Apple ID account, it showed him the location where the thief lived.

    If you stole a laptop and couldnâ(TM)t get in to it, youâ(TM)d wipe it and start again so you could use it. You certainly wouldnâ(TM)t power it up periodically over *several years* to see if you could get in to it now. So the alternative is that the thief has full access including access to the Apple ID and all the passwords. What kind of t

  • ... to his account?

    This is a better question, for some CEO from a highly technical company. How come the thief could just start using the laptop without having to reset it (and presumably had access to all the personal and corporate information from it) and why it was still linked to his account for "years" ? Could the kid for all these years go through his emails, cloud pictures, see HIS location and so on? That would be way more worrying than the fact that the thief had no privacy when using the stolen go

    • Because he made the whole story up for publicity.

    • Only if this was a work laptop. Sweeney does not say but for his sake, hope he just did not admit that he did not report the theft of company resources because of his hatred of a company.
      • How many CEOs you think are buying their own laptops? It's not like they get pestered by IT if they visit whatever the "CEO equivalent" of Slashdot is.

        Other than that even (or maybe especially) if it was a strictly personal laptop it's still irresponsible to leave it without the most basic security, and don't kick it from his account (for years!) after it was stolen.

  • So should I expect Epic games will sell a new product - for $0.01 for a lifetime subscription, Epic Games will replace any Apple product stolen and not recovered by law enforcement within 30 days, with $0.00 deductible, as long as FindMy is disabled on said device? I bet you can protect plenty of peoples privacy Sweeney! Show us you believe law enforcement is the way to go, by underwriting this insurance product with your personal assets, then Epic Game assets.

    Until then, I'm keeping FindMy enabled on my
  • I don't think that Sweeney will ever have anything decent to say about Apple going forward. There's just so much water under that bridge. I really like my Pixel, but the "Find My" feature seems pretty handy.
  • "but when Find My or Google's similar tech points a device owner to a device possessor's home, one must anticipate the presence of families and kids and innocent used device buyers, and ask whether it's really appropriate for a platform to use GPS and shadowy mesh network tech to set up physical confrontations among individuals."

    You can use that argument against OnStar too. But no one complains because car theft is treated a lot more seriously by the police.

    If there are concerns about FindMy* services setting up showdowns between civilians and police, pass laws that compel (and fund) police and courts to recover a small, randomly selected , subset of stolen devices. No matter how small the theft. Even if it's a cheap $50 Android, but it is on the randomly-selected 'recovery list', the police try to get it back using FindMy data.

    Af

  • Sweeney said that the location of a device in someone's possession can't be tracked without tracking the person

    Wow this guy is a fucking genius. What other pearls of wisdom will he drop?

    .

    and "people have a right to privacy."

    And there is it. This kind of deeply nuanced insight means his IQ must be over a million!!

  • Just put a label on all the devices with your address, phone-number, Social Security number and Bank-accounts, in case the thief want to transfer some money for the theft or help the police find the owner.

  • Tim Sweeney may come off as a bit of an asshole in this article, but he's got a point.

    The intent of the "Find My" app may be good but the results have already been super creepy, not just hypothetically but in real life
    https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]

    There's probably a counter argument there: that example is shoddy police work, not the fault of the app.

    But there's a counter counter, which is that the "Find My" feature contributes to a surveillance culture which has some obvious and demonstrable downsides.

  • His stolen laptop is still being used by someone else, and still registered to his Apple account, several years after being stolen?

    Is someone tried to use their own account on this laptop, it wouldn't allow the same device to be registered to multiple find my accounts.
    Why didn't he tell Apple it was stolen? You can mark it as lost or stolen and remotely lock it.

  • Stop prosecuting criminals, for they may have families. Somebody think of the children!

    It's almost like someone is afraid of being prosecuted.

If all else fails, lower your standards.

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