Epic, Spotify, Others Back DOJ Lawsuit Against Apple (appfairness.org) 68
The Coalition for App Fairness, an industry body that represents Epic, Spotify, Match Group and Proton among others, issued the following statement following the U.S. announcing it had sued Apple: "With today's announcement, the Department of Justice is taking a strong stand against Apple's stranglehold over the mobile app ecosystem, which stifles competition and hurts American consumers and developers alike. The DOJ complaint details Apple's long history of illegal conduct -- abusing their App Store guidelines and developer agreements to increase prices, extract exorbitant fees, degrade user experiences, and choke off competition. The DOJ joins regulators around the world, who have recognized the many harms of Apple's abusive behavior and are working to address it. As this case unfolds in the coming years more must be done now to end the anticompetitive practices of all mobile app gatekeepers. It remains imperative that Congress pass bipartisan legislation, like the Open App Markets Act, to create a free and open mobile app marketplace." Further reading: Apple Loses $115 Billion in Market Value as Regulators Close In.
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Re:Geez, if you don't like it... (Score:5, Informative)
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Or you can develop as a web app, and not use the store at all.
- if you develop *for any platform* you have to play by its rules. Are we saying that platforms are monopolistic now? That somehow we must require all manufacturers to have all of their products interoperate with competitors products no matter how good or bad they are?
If you want to make money developing software that runs on Apple hardware, how is it unfair that you have to follow the rules they set, unless you were invested in the platform itse
Re:Geez, if you don't like it... (Score:5, Informative)
Or you can develop as a web app, and not use the store at all.
- if you develop *for any platform* you have to play by its rules.
Odd. I don't remember having to follow any rules for Linux development. Pretty sure that's true for Windows as well. I mean Windows ostensibly requires app signing unless you turn off a configuration option, but you can get certs from a wide range of third-party certificate authorities, not just from Microsoft.
And even Mac development doesn't strictly *require* Apple to be involved. Users will just have to know how to change their security settings to run your app if you don't. The same is true for Android.
Other than game console manufacturers, no other platform I'm aware of behaves the way Apple does with iOS.
Are we saying that platforms are monopolistic now? That somehow we must require all manufacturers to have all of their products interoperate with competitors products no matter how good or bad they are?
No, but when you lock down the hardware in such a way that makes it impossible for anyone else to add that ability to interoperate, you're starting to push the bounds of what is reasonable. And when you literally admit that you're refusing inoperability with open standards to avoid losing market share while selling more than half of all devices in the U.S. market, you're on the wrong side of antitrust laws.
I do agree that 30% sucks, and they can make rules against that. Doordash and Uber charges restaurants 30% access fee for their products as well, and I’m not seeing any antitrust lawsuits from the DOJ saying they cant do that, just temporary ones during COVID.
The difference is that those companies don't have lock-in. I could create a Doordash competitor tomorrow, and apart from having to find ways to advertise it (which participating restaurants would gladly do in exchange for lower fees), nothing prevents users from finding my website and using it.
That's not true for Apple. Their devices have only partial interoperability in terms of iCloud Mail, iMessage (Apple's SMS replacement), and Apple Music and TV, and zero interoperability in terms of most software that you have paid for, external accessories, purchased TV shows and movies (I think), purchased books (I think), etc. And of course, changing devices means learning a whole new way of doing everything. It's not nearly as simple as merely using a different website for purchases. It's using a whole different OS for *everything*.
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To be completely honest, I do not use my computers like I use my phone. My phone is what I carry everywhere, and what I use on a daily basis to communicate with the world around me - and I would rather it be more secure than less.
And for me, the opposite is true. The phone is what I use for taking random candid photos here and there every so often, glancing at email every so often, making phone calls, and doing random web browsing whenever something comes up when I'm out and about. ~100% of the stuff I actually care about someone stealing or care about accidentally losing is on my computer.
And I haven't had to jailbreak my phone.
The last time I *had* to jailbreak my phone was when Apple wouldn't add video recording on the original iPhone. And I don't like the idea of j
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Just as soon as there is API parity between what a web app can do, and what a phone app can do, then you might have a point.
Until that happens, which will be on the 10th of Neveruary, you do not.
Re:Geez, if you don't like it... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't like how Apple does it, feel free to do what you want as a developer or user on an Android phone...plenty of choices over there...
That's a bit disingenuous. One company disregarding antitrust law creates ripple effects through copycat behavior. Don't believe me? How many other plaforms' app stores charge a 30% commission?
Any illegal or questionably legal actions by a company the size of Apple tend to result in other companies thinking that if Apple is doing it, it must be okay, so everybody ends up doing the same thing. That's why, as a tech industry leader, Apple must be held to a higher standard than most other companies.
This is doubly true because of their disproportionate market power in the U.S. Sales of iPhone devices make up about 60% of the U.S. cell phone market. Their next largest competitor, Samsung, sells barely a third as many devices (22% or so). All of the Android vendors put together still add up to only two-thirds of iPhone sales, spread out over dozens of manufacturers.
And phones are not infinitely compatible. Once someone ends up in a particular ecosystem, switching ecosystems requires substantial effort, and mixing ecosystems within a family also requires significant effort. There is, therefore, a high barrier to entry in the market when it comes to the 60-ish percent of U.S. cell phone users who are currently on iOS. And peer pressure only compounds that problem.
So no, whether as a developer or as a user, "You can do whatever you want on Android" is not an adequate answer to the problem. Apple is not above the law.
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My enthusiasm is thoroughly curbed (Score:3)
After seeing Apple's malicious compliance with the EU's regulations, I don't expect anything useful to come of this. The government could literally order Apple to implement sideloading in the same manner as how it presently functions on Android and Apple would likely still find some loophole to weasel their way out of it.
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We shall see how their implementation of RCS messaging works. Part of the DOJ's lawsuit is the claim that Apple shames non-Apple users with green bubbles in its popular Messages app, as a means of maintaining market dominance.
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We shall see how their implementation of RCS messaging works. Part of the DOJ's lawsuit is the claim that Apple shames non-Apple users with green bubbles in its popular Messages app, as a means of maintaining market dominance.
Just that phrase "Apple shames non-Apple Users with Green Bubbles. . ." not only has no place in a serious document like a DOJ Complaint; but also underscores the possibility that this "Complaint" was authored by either Epic or Google, and some lazy-ass (and/or lying-ass) AUSA received this pre-written and just passed it up the chain, leveraging the fact that Garland is obviously just parroting what he is being fed, and has no actual understanding of the non-issues involved.
It's going to be truly entertaini
Microsoft 2.0 (Score:4, Informative)
Iphones Work (Score:5, Insightful)
I've had Androids and IPhones over the year.
What I like about the IPhone is that it just works. I don't have to fiddle with it, change settings, turn this off and that on, side-load what I want. Every Android I've ever had was a total mess, and a PITA. Ads, bloatware, malware, disjointed apps. At least with Apple, its only one company selling my data for texting and calling. If people wanted all of the extra stuff, they'd buy an Android.
I enjoy all of these other companies at certain times when I need/want them, but all I hear is, "We need to get a piece of that revenue so we can advertise to the IPhone folks more."
Keep 'em off!
--
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot
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The majority won’t care about side-loading, but they will want *that app*, no matter what. So if someone develops an App Store clone, and installs nefarious apps that look like the real ones, who would the user, and then the government, turn to when their phones get bricked, or are being turned into data zombies?
Apple. They would be blamed.
If you want to sideload, jailbreak. I think apple should make a jailbreak app, which invalidates the warranty, but gives you full access to the hardware without any
Re:Iphones Work (Score:4, Interesting)
The majority won’t care about side-loading, but they will want *that app*, no matter what. So if someone develops an App Store clone, and installs nefarious apps that look like the real ones, who would the user, and then the government, turn to when their phones get bricked, or are being turned into data zombies?
Apple. They would be blamed.
If you want to sideload, jailbreak. I think apple should make a jailbreak app, which invalidates the warranty, but gives you full access to the hardware without any support.
Exactly!
It takes years to build trust; but only seconds to destroy it.
And, as I have been saying for years now, it will be Apple who will be blamed for being "No safer than Android."
You heard it here first.
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If you want to sideload, jailbreak. I think apple should make a jailbreak app, which invalidates the warranty, but gives you full access to the hardware without any support.
Having owned a jailbroken iPhone a long time ago, I think that would be a great idea. The problem with jailbreaking is that every time there is an IOS update, they try to un-jailbreak you. If there was a supported way that would persist across updates that would be much more convenient (and more secure as you would not have to rely on security exploits to break out in the first place). Unfortunately it would also be much more popular. Apple really does not want you peeking over the garden wall, you migh
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Why would an opt-in to a completely reversible SOFTWARE decision void HARDWARE warranty?
If you jailbreak and something goes wrong, you wipe the device and OH LOOK IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME AS PRE-JAILBREAK.
Jesus H. Christ you're a fucking idiot.
You have a valid point, but bad software can damage hardware, that is not an unrealistic argument. If you can wipe it and reinstall the OS your hardware is probably fine anyway, but firmware could still be compromised. Those are real security implications (which Apple fanbois are always screaming about), even on my recent Samsung phones installing non-OEM OS may trip the Knox bit so it remains forever known as rooted and some things may no longer work.
I'd prefer none of these limitations, but phones ar
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Or, they could do the most sensical version of implementing side-loading, just like literally every Android device does: have it turned off by default, and then when you try to install something you get a box saying your settings don't allow installing software from third party sources such as nefarious-apps.com due to the risks associated with malware, etc.; would you like to enable that?
Oh look, your problem is 100% mitigated because the user was warned and chose to do that anyway. Literally millions of
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>> Every Android I've ever had was a total mess
I've owned a long series of Android phones over the years and have seen zero mess. The recent Pixel phones are particularly good. I had an Apple phone for work at one point and it was nice but no less messy. I hear that some Android brands like Motorola and Samsung come with unremovable bloatware but others have none.
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A friend of mine had an iPhone and wanted to use it to submit an image file from a very old PC with a usb port for online printing. I tried to figure out how he could do it but it seemed impossible with an iphone. It's those kinds of headaches I don't like.
Which way was he trying to go with the file?
What OS was the PC Using?
Was there a USB Stick Available?
Was there an iPhone Camera Connection Kit Available?
Was there WiFi Available?
What version of iOS?
The Devil's in the Details.
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it just doesnt work with apple
it just doesnt work with apple
Bullshit.
I just didn't want to list solutions for every possible scenario.
Plus, fluffernutter claims to be an iOS Developer; so he should have known all this, anyway.
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No your an apple shill that gets paid to waste people's time with canned stupid responses
Learn some grammar, bot.
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It was an old pc with an ide drive and no hope of installing anything and i think an iphone 6.
Well, old enough and even USB would be no help, even if technically available.
Even an iPhone 6 should be able to run an iOS version new enough to connect to an SMB or WebDAV Share through the Files App; but if the PC had no Ethernet, then what happened to using a USB Stick and an Apple Camera Connection Kit?
I kind of get the idea that, if the PC could have saved the file to a USB Stick, then that's what would have been done.
And besides, the real question is: With a PC that insular, what guarantees you would
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No he needed to submit the file on a website with his phone, so it wasn't just being a flash drive. If it was Android, you could just plug it in and copy the file, then access that file with a browser.
With a Camera Connection Kit and using the intrinsic Apple "Files" App, you could do the same. In fact, I'm not sure you'd even have to involve a Web Browser.
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Camera connection kit?? WTF? To just transfer a file??
Just buy a knockoff; especially for a one-time or infrequent thing. Here's one on Amazon for $14. There are cheaper; but this had nearly 10,000 reviews on Amazon:
SUNTRSI USB Camera Adapter, USB Female OTG Adapter for iPhone iPad, Portable USB Adapter for iPhone with Charging Port, No Application, Plug and Play https://a.co/d/a6sXJd9 [a.co]
Worst case, even if the iPhone won't just Mount like a USB Drive (which I don't know for sure), you should be able to use this to bounce the file through a USB stick using the iO
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My buddy wanted to do this now with me on the phone! It wasn't a situation where he was prepared to wait.
After that much time, that's kinda on him, don'tcha think? ;-)
And he couldn't wait ONE DAY for an Amazon shipment?!? [eyeroll]
Well, I hope he got the transfer done! Heavy is the mantle we geeks wear as unsung, unpaid Tech Support for friends and family; we've all been there!
Nothing like having to deal with some old, creaky DOS/Windows PC. . . Been there, done that! Still have the Nightmares, LOL!
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In one day he bought a flash drive and used my computer. Thanks for trying to help but you ended up proving my point. One shouldn't have to buy special kits to transfer an arbitrary file to a storage device.
In all fairness to me, you could have spent $10 (maybe even less) for essentially an Adapter (not "Special Kit") to get from USB to Lightning. That's hardly onerous!
And if the computer wasn't so old that it ran on Kerosene, it would have had Ethernet or WiFi, and that would have been the end of that. Tell me what percentage of still-functioning computers you think don't have some sort of Networking?
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Holy shit your an idiot. All that to simply transfer a file. Your obviously only use your computer to waste people time defending apple
Learn some grammar, bot.
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Glad you're happy, but you literally lose nothing from having other options available on your device. Don't install
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You don't seem to understand that if the DoJ is successful here, your iPhone experience will be improved.
I don't know why people are against having more choice, which you have to opt-in to get. You can still do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and have the exact same experience you do today.
Oh, the horror!
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You don't seem to understand that if the DoJ is successful here, your iPhone experience will be improved.
I don't know why people are against having more choice, which you have to opt-in to get. You can still do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and have the exact same experience you do today.
Oh, the horror!
No, the iPhone experience will allegedly be "improved".
Unless you've been hiding that Crystal Ball, or are a Time Traveler, there is absolutely no way to know that.
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Well it makes more sense then your "apple is doomed " rants
LOLWUT?!?
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I found most mainstream 3rd party Android manufacturers loaded up their phones with ads and bloatware. My OnePlus was pretty good about this, but I gotta say the Pixel phones that are made by Google are the best. Try one of those so you can compare phone platforms made by the manufacturer, they're pretty good :)
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I have the opposite experience. My wife has had various iPhones and their are a pain in the arse, where as my Android devices just do what I want.
As an example, we want to use Google Photos because I have a load of free storage there from back in the day, and it's a nice way to share stuff in our family. Problem is that the Google Photos app on iOS is just a normal app, so it can only run in the background for max 30 seconds and then iOS murders it. So unlike the special iCloud app which can do what it like
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I have the opposite experience. My wife has had various iPhones and their are a pain in the arse, where as my Android devices just do what I want.
As an example, we want to use Google Photos because I have a load of free storage there from back in the day, and it's a nice way to share stuff in our family. Problem is that the Google Photos app on iOS is just a normal app, so it can only run in the background for max 30 seconds and then iOS murders it. So unlike the special iCloud app which can do what it likes, backups of videos or larger photo collections tend to fail and have to re-start the next time you open the app.
Another example is when I want to copy some audio files onto her phone. You either have to use iTunes (not installing that turd) or some jank method involving other third party apps. You can't just plug the USB cable in and copy the files like you can on Android.
There is no F-Droid app store either, so when you want an app you have to sift through spam and malware on the Apple App Store until you find one that isn't full of ads and privacy raping. Apple seems to limit what apps you can get there too, and their OS doesn't support some basic features like NFC. On Android I have an app to read my travel cards via NFC, but on iOS you just can't, it's not allowed.
She has had the odd malware problem too, like somehow her calendar got filled up with spam notifications after she installed an app. I don't know if Apple have the capability to remove apps from infected phones, but they don't seem to use it if they do. Google's security is much better.
Overall the iPhone is a very shitty, "just broken" experience. You run into the walls of the garden frequently.
I have found that, when people don't want a solution, they will ignore any attempts to use any that are available.
The proscription against Backgrounding in iOS is a well-intentioned battery-saver. App Publishers can Apply to Apple to be allowed to Background Persistently. For example, Spotify has done this for years. I even have a Police Radio Scanner App that has a Switch to enable Backgrounding; and it obviously isn't Published by someone with the expertise and clout that someone like a Spotify and Google
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What is the files app? You mean on the phone itself? How does it connect to my computer?
The least shitty work-around I've found is to put them on YouTube Music and then download them for offline use.
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What is the files app? You mean on the phone itself? How does it connect to my computer?
The least shitty work-around I've found is to put them on YouTube Music and then download them for offline use.
The Files App has been part of the standard iOS Build since, IIRC, iOS 11 or 12. It has steadily improved; and while certainly not the Finder or Windows' File Explorer (sorry, don't know the Linux equivalent), at this point, it's fairly capable. It's Icon looks like a Light Blue Folder with "Files" as the name. I agree that Perhaps Apple could have chosen something better, like the "Flying Files" animation of Windows' File Copy! ;-)
Scroll down to "Files" on this Table of Contents Page to find out everything
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Thanks, I will take a look at those two. Honestly though, her iPad died so it will probably get replaced with an Android tablet that I can just copy the files onto.
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Thanks, I will take a look at those two. Honestly though, her iPad died so it will probably get replaced with an Android tablet that I can just copy the files onto.
Her iPad Died?
Is it perhaps the battery? If so, that's pretty inexpensive to replace.
BTW, apparently, VLC creates a "Drop Folder" within the Files App, so you can skip the "Sharing" stuff. Look in the "On My iPhone (iPad)" Location in Files.
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It's an Air 2, it was shit when it was new and not really worth getting a new battery for. You can get a decent Android tablet for not a lot of money now, that will be faster and easier to use, better screen, better speakers, better camera etc. Updates to iOS have made the Air 2 even worse than when it was new in terms of performance and available storage space.
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It's an Air 2, it was shit when it was new and not really worth getting a new battery for. You can get a decent Android tablet for not a lot of money now, that will be faster and easier to use, better screen, better speakers, better camera etc. Updates to iOS have made the Air 2 even worse than when it was new in terms of performance and available storage space.
There are much better iPads now, too.
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Tldr. Some bullshit saying apple is the best and the Android is evil.
The intended recipient didn't think it was "some bullshit", and it apparently wasn't too much for him to read.
Sorry you can't make it through a Post that is longer than one sentence.
Bust 'em open then go after consoles (Score:2, Interesting)
This whole "pay-us-to-develop-on-our-platform" is backwards as fuck,
and likely would have killed the pc revolution before it started, if that was the case then.
If anything, it should be the other way around.
AAPL monopoly on apps is not cradle to grave (Score:2)
Short of copyright emerging, Apple’s AppStore deal for distribution, hosting and pass-thru upgrades for 30% should not last forever
In early iPhone days it was viewed as iPod content by Apple with more value because of Apple API integration, testing And upgrade support written for third party developers. iPhone scale, success and those Apple upgrades enriched Apple and developer alike. But the sheer amount of treasury AppStore brings in yearly exceeds many magnitudes Apple cost, reasonable profit and i
The US is spreading itself too thin (Score:2)
The Pentagon already had its hands full supplying Ukraine at the same time as the South China Sea was emerging as a possible battlefield. Then we had the flareup in the Middle East. Is it really equipped to wage war against the world's second most powerful corporate superpower after Walmart? What happens if Prime Minister Cook takes the conflict nuclear? Suppose the rumors of an alliance with Walmart prove true?
Nothing is free..... (Score:2)