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The Courts United States

RFK Jr. Wins Deferred Injunction In Vax Social Media Suit (bloomberglaw.com) 323

schwit1 writes: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. won a preliminary injunction against the White House and other federal defendants in his suit alleging government censorship of his statements against vaccines on social media. The injunction, however, will be stayed until the US Supreme Court rules in a related case brought by Missouri and Louisiana. An injunction is warranted because Kennedy showed he is likely to succeed on the merits of his claims, Judge Terry A. Doughty of the US District Court for the Western District of Louisiana said Wednesday.

The White House defendants, the Surgeon General defendants, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention defendants, the Federal Bureau of Investigation defendants, and the Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency defendants likely violated the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment, Doughty said. Kennedy's class action complaint, brought with health care professional Connie Sampognaro and Kennedy's nonprofit, Children's Health Defense, alleges that the federal government, beginning in early 2020, began a campaign to induce Facebook, Google (YouTube), and X, formerly known as Twitter, to censor constitutionally protected speech.

Specifically, Kennedy said, the government suppressed "facts and opinions about the COVID vaccines that might lead people to become 'hesitant' about COVID vaccine mandates." Kennedy has sufficiently shown that these defendants "jointly participated in the actions of the social media" platforms by '"insinuating' themselves into the social-media companies' private affairs and blurring the line between public and private action," Doughty said.

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RFK Jr. Wins Deferred Injunction In Vax Social Media Suit

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  • by davecb ( 6526 ) <davecb@spamcop.net> on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:25PM (#64244966) Homepage Journal
    Who benefits if more people get sick and/or die?
    • by nightflameauto ( 6607976 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:33PM (#64245002)

      Who benefits if more people get sick and/or die?

      Funeral home directors? HOLY SHIT! VAST CONSPIRACY CONFIRMED!

      • During Covid "parklet" outdoor canopy table times, a man in a very good suit with an interesting briefcase sat down at one of the tables with his coffee, and pulled out a stack of what looked like case files. I wondered if the guy was a public defender. I asked him a question about the briefcase. It turned out that he was not a public defender, but an undertaker.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      Humanity. Those who refused to get vaccinated or made up lies such as Kennedy died in far greater numbers than everyone else once vaccines became available. A simple search will reveal the number of anti-vaxxers who died after getting covid, and the people who agreed with them. There's a reason they are given the Herman Cain Award [wikipedia.org].
      • Unfortunately they also put the immunocompromised at risk along the way. I have absolutely no issue with people flinging themselves off cliffs. When they tie a rope to an innocent bystander and pull them down as well, then I have an issue.

    • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:36PM (#64245020)

      Well, first of all pretty much anyone who hates the US. They actually get a lot of other benefits out of it, too. A nation divided, busy with keeping itself in existence, an economy that suffers because of it, a lower workforce... pretty much anything that comes out of the whole deal benefits anyone who wants a weaker US. China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, pick and choose, multiple answers possible.

      • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:53PM (#64245112)

        Well, first of all pretty much anyone who hates the US.

        Right-wing kookery is a worldwide phenomenon.

        It is in the ascendency almost everywhere.

        • by skam240 ( 789197 )

          With our country being so much more conservative than the rest of the first world it does seem that we're a bit more so in terms of extremes on the right than other countries though. I think this is illustrated pretty well by 2/3rds of our conservative party (which makes up about 1/3 of the population) believing in unfounded election conspiracy and us actually having a recent president who feeds into a lot of this. In most other first world countries these types seem to be more on the fringes still.

          I could

      • ... pretty much anything that comes out of the whole deal benefits anyone who wants a weaker US. China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, pick and choose, multiple answers possible.

        Sadly, we Americans are far more worried about the obvious insider threat leading this country into its own demise.

        The rest of the planet has already realized they don't actually need to do much more than grab the fucking popcorn and watch.

    • by marcobat ( 1178909 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:42PM (#64245056)
      I'm vaccinated with multiple busters, but i believe the real question is "Who benefits when people don't have the right to question the facts as presented by those in power?"
      • by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:59PM (#64245138) Journal
        but i believe the real question is "Who benefits when people don't have the right to question the facts as presented by those in power?"

        No one has been prevented from questioning facts. You are free to raise any question you like. However, once your questions have been answered, you can't go back another time and ask the same questions, then complain no one will answer you. You were given your answer, now move on.

        What Kennedy, and others, keep doing is repeating same lies and debunked crap over and over and over, then whine when people have had enough and don't give them a forum to keep repeating their lies because they've told time and again what they're saying is a lie or has been debunked.
        I'm pretty sure I could pick a random family doctor from my area and they would flatten Kennedy's lies about vaccines in an open forum. No need for the CDC or any government agency to get involved.
    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:48PM (#64245080)

      Who benefits if more people get sick and/or die?

      You assume that censoring conspiracy theory X makes people stop believing in X.

      It doesn't. It makes people more likely to believe in X.

      Censorship validates what the kooks are claiming.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by MIPSPro ( 10156657 )

        Censorship validates what the kooks are claiming.

        I agree. I think one of the big issues here is that folks who support civil rights suppression (restrictions on speech, movement, etc..) are chicken shit pussy assholes who know damn well they'd be shredded on the merits of any attempted argument for the repressive policies. Instead, they endlessly attempt to straw-man the vaccine skeptics and assert over and over that they are the side of The Science and The Truth. Somehow this is supposed to justify censorship? This is enough to justify throwing people o

      • by skam240 ( 789197 )

        For some maybe but for others repeating misinformation over and over again gives it an air of legitimacy as it becomes "normal" and "part of the debate".

      • And that's why all the dictatorships censor like crazy?

    • Who benefits if more people get sick and/or die?

      It's a serious question, and a legitimate one. But one that has been answered already.

      You have a brand new product to bring to the American market. If it is A) highly addictive, B) highly profitable (and therefore taxable), and C) creates harm that drives even more profit for you or others (such as physical/mental/psychological harm that feeds the Medical Industrial Complex), then you can be guaranteed your product will receive approval from the Government.

      If your product does not deliver on those requirem

    • by Z80a ( 971949 )

      The best tinfoil hat theory for that would be the government, as people that are more willing to trust the only option from given "for free" were the ones that took the vaccines.
      There were a bunch of just as effective non-mrna vaccines available, and with a simple marketing of "you can buy a traditional made one", many more lives would probably be saved.
      But that's just a tinfoil hat theory.

    • by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:56PM (#64245124)

      Age-old tradeoff: freedom or security.

      Whereever a society chooses to draw the line, there will be marginal cases that could go either way. And the answer to who benefits one way or the other is always the same: more security benefits the immediate physical safety of (ideally) the many; more freedom benefits the downstream political, intellectual, and economic wellbeing of (ideally) the many.

      Where we have historically drawn the line, we assert that empowering the government to suppress ideas it doesn't like is intolerable; men have given their lives for the right to express opinions deemed unfavorable by the government and we generally call them heroes. Not because we agree with them necessarily, but because freedom is more beneficial for all, despite the very human instinct to crowd around the strongman for protection.

    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      Bill Gates.

      I think. It was Bill Gates, right? Or some people in the basement of a pizza joint? Was Bill Gates in the basement of a pizza joint? With a Jewish space laser?

      Yes. It was Bill Gates, in the basement of a pizza joint, with a Jewish space laser.

    • because their economic policy is an objective failure [wikipedia.org].

      Same thing with the Border Bill they demanded. The got the bill they wanted and then killed it themselves so they'd have something to campaign on besides tax cuts for the rich, which doesn't work when you're treating people so badly you're bringing back child labor
    • Who benefits if more people get sick and/or die?

      Depends on the people.
      From 2021... For COVID-19 vaccinations, party affiliation matters more than race and ethnicity [brookings.edu]

      According to Gallup, 40% of Republicans “don’t plan” to get vaccinated, versus 26% of Independents and just 3% of Democrats. In response to a more sharply worded KFF question, 23% of Republicans report that they will “definitely not” get vaccinated, compared to 11% of Independents and just 4% of Democrats.

      And others ...
      - How Many Republicans Died Because the GOP Turned Against Vaccines? [theatlantic.com]
      - The Right’s Anti-Vaxxers Are Killing Republicans [theintercept.com]
      - Google: unvaccinated by political party [google.com]

  • Your right to free speech ends at the exact point where it starts endangering other people; be that encouraging others to start shooting all the jews, encouraging bungee jumping with hemp rope instead of elastic, or getting people to not protect themselves from a deadly worldwide disease.

    Or in more colloquial terms; your freedom to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by RedK ( 112790 )

      Brandenburg v. Ohio is the current standard that defines where the 1st amendment ends, and guess what, you got it wrong.

      You are in fact allowed to yell "Fire!" in a theater.

      • You might want to re-read the Brandenburg v. Ohio concurrencies. Shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre is given as an example of a rare case where such speech *can* be prosecuted, because it is "a classic case where speech is brigaded with action."

        • by Holi ( 250190 )

          It was Schenck v United States that made the fire in a theater ruling, Brandenberg overturned it.

        • by RedK ( 112790 )

          > You might want to re-read the Brandenburg v. Ohio concurrencies. Shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre is given as an example of a rare case where such speech *can* be prosecuted

          You might want to re-read it yourself, because it overturns Schenck v. United States which is the "Fire in a crowded theater" ruling that is such a popular amongst Free speech haters. Brandenburg v. Ohio affirms the actual right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and narrows a whole lot what would be unprotected incitement.

          D

    • That would be true in a sane county. When it comes to freedom of speech, guns, or healthcare... The US is not sane and rational.

      Discussion with the people whose minds you need to change is impossible.

      • by RedK ( 112790 )

        > Discussion with the people whose minds you need to change is impossible.

        "Send dissidents to the Gulag" is a very Soviet position, even for you.

        • by Calydor ( 739835 )

          Fascinating accusation from someone with 'Red' in his name, comrade.

          • by Holi ( 250190 )

            Wow, that's quite a stretch there. I guess Red Forman was a secret commie to by your logic, Or Redd Fox maybe, How about Red Skelton?

      • by Holi ( 250190 )

        Who gets to decide what acceptable speech is?

      • Yeah, so censor them, right? Is that your solution?
      • When it comes to freedom of speech, guns, or healthcare... The US is not sane and rational.

        You are then free to not live here then.

        I, personally, feel blessed to be in such a country....many of us have fought and died to keep our freedoms.

        Here, we value the individual. It's tough some times, but it is what being free is all about....and it has allowed us to date to succeed far beyond any other country on the planet.

        Sadly, tho...we are losing our way....and losing sight on what is right, and what is to b

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by spacepimp ( 664856 )

      So by this measure Catholic priests suggesting people don't wear condoms, which could lead to STD's and death have no right to 'free speech' because it is promoting deadly and dangerous activites? Nobody makes you listen or agree with these people.

      • by wed128 ( 722152 )
        Catholicism is anti-condom, that's true, but it's also anti-premarital-sex. Monogamy is a great way to avoid the spread of STDs.
  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:33PM (#64245000)

    More dimwits will die, I hope.

    Ok, some normal people will also fall as collateral damage, but that's a price we have to pay to get rid of the lower end of the IQ spectrum. Funny, we just recently had a discussion about how people would react to something that eliminates the lower echelons of the IQ scale. It seems it will be celebrated by the very people who get to be killed.

    • More dimwits will die, I hope.

      Ok, some normal people will also fall as collateral damage, but that's a price we have to pay to get rid of the lower end of the IQ spectrum.

      Funny how people don't realize "normal" people turn out to be loved ones, until they're dead.

      There's a reason we still add the word damage to collateral. Your ignorance on the matter makes it clear you've been lucky enough to afford your ignorance. Best not to assume so hard. Shit Happens. So does Life.

    • Well as much as i think progressives are naive children with a compliance fetish, i don't wish them death.

      That is quite grim.

  • by dstwins ( 167742 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:36PM (#64245016) Homepage
    Keep in mind, he won on the basis of freedom of speech, not the legitimacy or content of that speech... and that's a shame.. because it practically encourages mis/disinformation by allowing it to be presented as "equal" and letting people pick and choose content based on their own bias rather than facts.. which is how you get a pandemic that should have lasted months at most to last years because of this sort of crap.
    • by Calydor ( 739835 )

      The ultimate admission of an indefensible standpoint is to say, "It is not literally illegal to say what I did."

    • by Holi ( 250190 )

      No he won the injunction based on the claim the the social media companies were acting as agents of the government (otherwise how can their be a 1st amendment violation). The problem with the argument is that even without section 230 the companies have a 1st amendment right to moderate their sites as they see fit.

  • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @12:39PM (#64245034)

    To see who put him on the bench [wikipedia.org]

    On August 3, 2017, President Donald Trump nominated Doughty to serve as a United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the Western District of Louisiana,

    He was confirmed 98-0, so he wasn't as bad as many of the other appointees, but it seems like whenever I see some ruling echoing Conservative talking points I'm going to find out the judge was appointed by Trump.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by RedK ( 112790 )

      "Conservative talking points" means "respecting the constitution and bill of rights" I guess.

      • Unless it has to do with abortion cannabis, or allowing non christian religious displays on government property.

    • by Holi ( 250190 )

      Depends on the evidence supporting the "suit alleging government censorship of his statements against vaccines on social media.". If compelling evidence has been offered then the judge may be correct in his ruling. I saw nothing mentioning any evidence though.

  • by gnasher719 ( 869701 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @01:21PM (#64245238)
    He had the right to free speech. Even though what he says is utter nonsense, he has the right to spout that nonsense all day long. I have the right to tell the world he is talking nonsense.

    As far as measles are concerned: At the moment there are still enough people vaccinated in almost all areas to stop massive spread. But we reached the point where in small areas the illness can spread. At this point, every percent reduction in vaccinations will make the small outbreaks bigger until whole state sized areas are under the required vaccination rate. At that point vaccination doesnâ(TM)t give you herd immunity anymore but only your own individual immunity. (I think measles is bad enough that with 60% successful vaccination rate thdd we 60% would be mostly safe, with the forty percent getting infected almost completely.
  • Slam dunk (Score:4, Insightful)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Friday February 16, 2024 @04:37PM (#64246022) Journal

    There are ample examples of where the US government told social media companies what information to censor.
    There are ample examples of US government holding regular consultations with social media companies where they'd review and vet specific lists of posters to deprecate explicitly for their opinions.
    Finally, there are ample examples where US intelligence employees "left" government service to take controlling, policy-setting roles in these organizations to guide and direct their development and curation, reasonably likely (from their own statements, notes, memos, emails) to advance government goals in silencing anyone contra the official party line.

    In a world that wasn't upside down, liberals - you know, the ones who used to be against government invading all aspects of private life, unfettered freedom of speech even if 'dangerous', etc - would have been the first ones to object.
    But it's "their guys" in charge so...I guess priorities change.

    What's tremendously sad is this case will ultimately end up in the Supreme Court (as, reasonably, it's about abuse of federal powers of the Executive) and the quick, obvious decision or any attempt to constrain the Executive will simply fuel the Left's assertion that "if they ain't with us, they agin' us!" (remember how we used to mock Baby Bush for that simpleton's stance?) and thus we should term-limit Justices and/or pack the court with a good dozen or so Left leaning judges to ensure "the right side" wins in the future. ....because if you can't win all the time, you really should insist they change the rules.

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