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Biden Administration Moves To Ban Solvent Trichloroethylene, Linked To Cancer (nytimes.com) 85

Posted by BeauHD from the long-time-coming dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the New York Times: The Biden administration has proposed to ban all uses of trichloroethylene, an industrial solvent used in glues, other adhesives, spot removers and metal cleaners, saying exposure to even small amounts can cause cancer, damage to the central nervous system and other health effects. The proposed ban is the latest twist in a yearslong debate over whether to regulate trichloroethylene, commonly referred to as TCE. In its final weeks, the Obama administration tried to ban some uses of the chemical, only to have the Trump administration place it on an Environmental Protection Agency list for long-term consideration, a move that essentially suspended any action. Monday's proposal goes further than the Obama-era plan by prohibiting all uses of TCE.

Under the E.P.A. proposal, most uses of TCE, including those in processing commercial and consumer products, would be prohibited within one year. For other uses the agency categorized as "limited," such as use in electric vehicle batteries and the manufacturing of certain refrigerants, there would be a longer transition period and more stringent worker protections. The administration said that safer alternatives exist for most uses of TCE as a solvent. In a final evaluation this year, the E.P.A. said the chemical posed an "unreasonable risk to human health." Short-term exposure could affect a developing fetus, and high concentrations can irritate the respiratory system, the agency said. Prolonged exposure has been associated with effects in the liver, kidneys, immune system and central nervous system, it said. "This is extremely important," said Maria Doa, senior director for chemicals policy at the Environmental Defense Fund, a nonprofit advocacy organization. She said TCE "causes so many different harms at such low levels" that banning it would have widespread impacts. "It's a long time coming," she said.
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Biden Administration Moves To Ban Solvent Trichloroethylene, Linked To Cancer More

Biden Administration Moves To Ban Solvent Trichloroethylene, Linked To Cancer

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  • cancer? hah! (Score:2, Informative)

    by iggymanz ( 596061 )

    I've known of people that were killed just by absorbing lethal dose through skin including a couple of guys where my dad worked because they weren't serious about protecting workers and didn't educate, kills liver and kidneys. Getting so little dose as to get cancer years later must be difficult.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by PDXNerd ( 654900 )
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
      Also https://www.freon.com/en/produ... [freon.com] - look how safe and cute that kid looks in the cancer chamber.

      Perhaps you're thinking of a different chemical? It doesn't sound like this chemical specifically causes lethal toxicity, perhaps maybe other chemicals in its manufacture? It sounds toxic to brew..

      • Out of the frying pan into the oven? n-propylbromide seems worse to me. Before you whack the mole, the EPA needs to pay more care to the next one to pop up.

        • The EPA doesn't need to pay attention to anything. They are laggard in everything they do compared to other regulators and they can simply see that other markets are doing fine after the TCE ban.

      • He may be thinking of carbon tet/tetrachloromethane, which is in fact vile stuff, especially when combined with alcohol consumption.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 )

      Indeed. Trichloroethylene has been know to be super-bad for you for years in the metalworking industry. Great degreaser, but also great life shortener.

      I worked as a gunsmith for years and I can't count the number of "older" folks (read: in their early 60s) who paid for a lifelong exposure to that stuff. that and a range of other nasty shit in that particular industry, but I digress...

      Most metalworking shops have long since replaced trichoroethylene with safer degreasers. This really isn't new.

      • even better before the trichlor they used carbon tetrachloride, can quickly kill and sometimes it did

    • Re:cancer? hah! (Score:4, Informative)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @03:20AM (#63951857)

      I've known of people that were killed just by absorbing lethal dose through skin

      No you've not. The drugs under discussion cannot kill people by absorbing small lethal doses through skin.

      • Drug? trichloroethene is a solvent, not a drug. You're too ignorant to even have an opinion.

        Should I have said absorbing large dose through skin since enough to cause harm, then everything is fine?

        • Drug? trichloroethene is a solvent, not a drug.

          LOL. So I mistyped a word. By the way we're talking about chemical compounds here. trichloroethene isn't a solvent, it's a compound. If you want to look like an intelligent arse, at least get the intelligent bit right. It may be used as a solvent (one of its applications).

          And no, despite how much you say it it's not lethally absorbed through the skin, not even at large doses. It can cause health concerns when absorbed through the skin including causing cancer.

          You're too ignorant to even have an opinion.

          And you're toxic worthless cunt who talks to peo

  • Even though it kills 3 million people every year and is far worse due to its availability almost everywhere

  • Got TCE? (Score:3)

    by cstacy ( 534252 ) on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:10PM (#63951525)

    Examples include typewriter correction fluids, paint removers, paint strippers, adhesives, spot removers, cleaning fluids for rugs, and metal cleaners.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cstacy ( 534252 )

      Examples include typewriter correction fluids, paint removers, paint strippers, adhesives, spot removers, cleaning fluids for rugs, and metal cleaners.

      Automotive rake cleaner.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cstacy ( 534252 )

      Examples include typewriter correction fluids, paint removers, paint strippers, adhesives, spot removers, cleaning fluids for rugs, and metal cleaners.

      Automotive brake cleaner.

      (And too bad about the typewriter correction fluid. Apparently I need some, with all teh typos. Does one take it orally, or sniff it?)

      • If you're talking about metal brake rotors, why not just use acetone to clean/dry them? Much less chronic toxicity, cheap in bulk, and quite effective in removing both polar and nonpolar schmutz. The only downside is flammability, but if you work outside, it's not a big deal.

        • Do the experiment - try some parts with acetone and some with (real) brake cleaner.

          Aetone is cheaper and mechanics still universally use brake cleaner.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Pascoea ( 968200 )

        Automotive brake cleaner.

        The chlorinated ones do, yeah. Non-chlorinated, most of what you buy at Walmart or auto-parts stores, doesn't. I did find some chlorinated on Amazon, and I would suspect that those in the industry can still get it, but most of the consumer stuff is the "safer" version.

    • You're thinking of trichloroETHANE, aka Perc. TFA is about trichloroETHYLENE, aka Trike. Both are mildly toxic, widely-used solvents, but Trike is also carcinogenic.

      • Perc is TETRAchloroETHYLENE Cl2C=CCl2 Trichloroethane is H3C-CCl3 or H2ClC-CHCl2

      • Yeah, of course I fucked up being Internet Corrections Guy. Perc is TETRAchloroethylene, which is yet another mildly toxic solvent which gets used everywhere.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by twosat ( 1414337 )

        I've got a dried-out bottle of Twink correction fluid thinner in my top desk drawer that's been there for over 20 years. The label says it contains 1,1,1-Trichloroethane.

    • Um, wrong. I used the brand named Tie-Ethane cleaning typewriters etc. for decades. Yes, Tri-Ethane has its own health concerns, but it ain't the same.

      And how I wish I had a mere pint of that stuff. It's the premier degreaser, and very little does the job if you use it correctly. I expect chlorinated brake cleaner to be outlawed entirely soon enough, and leave us with less effective alternatives. And yes, I look for those to use instead...

  • What's so special about TCE? (Score:3)

    by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 ) on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:33PM (#63951557)

    A quick google shows it causes cancer in a mouse model only, with varying opinion of its applicability to humans. Meanwhile one of the possible replacements, n-propylbromide, seems to me to have stronger evidence ... what makes TCE so special in the chemical cocktail of our environment? If there was some major epidemiological evidence for carcinogenicity in humans I'd understand. It probably causes Parkinson like most other solvents, but it doesn't seem special in this.

    Is it getting different treatment because it's abused as an intoxicant?

    • A quick google shows it causes cancer in a mouse model only

      The mouse model for carcinogens is an incredibly representative of how humans react, which is why mice are used in the first place for determining if something is carcinogenic.

      I come back to the same thing I said about the previous article regulating / banning something: We can see in other markets that it is trivially substitutable with substances that doesn't even cause cancer in mice, so why fuck around and find out instead of just banning it and moving on with your life?

      This is right up there with the c

      • Yep, if you give a mouse a human lifetime's consumption of any chemical, it will die.

        Hell, as far as I'm concerned, they can bring back lead fishing weights like they had when I was a kid.

    • They either want to prevent a small number of cancers and are willing to cause major industrial chaos to do it, or they want to cause industrial chaos and are willing to use a small number of cancers as an excuse.

      Which seems to fit the data and APA-mandated human life cost balancing better?

      The fact is our system requires that such major impacts are debated in the Legislature but the criminals there hide from their jobs while they loot the Treasury.

      Perhaps the Maine Fisheries case at SCOTUS will reverse /Che

  • Good step, but precautionary principle is needed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sinkskinkshrieks ( 6952954 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @12:56AM (#63951659)
    My dad and his dad both suffered from the same bladder cancer unique to exposure of a certain solvent used by mechanics in the 70's and 80's. Unfortunately, the lack of prior regulatory approval for new materials is a flawed cash-grab using Americans as guinea pigs who have to prove they were harmed after the damage is already done.
    • Yep. This. Manufacturers need to prove their products are safe before they're allowed to market them. If that presents product development issues then won't "the markets" adapt to that & find "efficiencies"?

  • Too little, too late. (Score:3)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @03:28AM (#63951875)

    ... spot removers ...

    My friend accidentally spilled spot remover on his dog, and now he's gone. :-)

  • Is made of PEOPLE!

  • Naturally (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @08:31AM (#63952577) Journal

    For other uses the agency categorized as "limited," such as use in electric vehicle batteries

    Naturally the Biden admins sacred cow is excused.

    Rules should apply to every - and sure I guess these apply to everyone in that everyone can engage in the manufacture of electric vehicle batteries but. Still this is backdoor to picking winners and losers as usual. If the stuff is so dangerous all industrial applications should be prohibited not just ones the admin does not have a hard on about!

    • He's going to ban M&Ms next. They're too hard to peel.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      For other uses the agency categorized as "limited," such as use in electric vehicle batteries

      Naturally the Biden admins sacred cow is excused.

      Rules should apply to every - and sure I guess these apply to everyone in that everyone can engage in the manufacture of electric vehicle batteries but. Still this is backdoor to picking winners and losers as usual. If the stuff is so dangerous all industrial applications should be prohibited not just ones the admin does not have a hard on about!

      "For other uses the ag

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        But there are no immediate alternatives to those refrigerants.

        On the other hand there is an existing widely deployed alternative to battery electric cars, that is internal combustion cars fueled with gasoline or diesel oil.

        So the situation is um completely different!

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

          But there are no immediate alternatives to those refrigerants.

          Where's the immediate alternatives to manufacture those battery separators?

          But there are no immediate alternatives to those refrigerants.

          Swamp coolers, window fans, dressing appropriately, ammonia-based systems for industry...

          It's an interesting double standard that you've created for which technologies have existing widely deployed alternatives and which do not, that's for sure.

    • We're talking about consumer exposure, which is not a problem in EVs where they're sealed up. In battery plants, they need to follow rules for exposure. I'm sure the Chinese won't, though.

  • Plutonium is linked to cancer. Biden better unilaterally disarm right away.

    • Plutonium is linked to cancer. Biden better unilaterally disarm right away.

      Or, at the very least, he should stop being lazy, and ban major retail chains from selling plutonium in their stores.

  • It's pretty difficult to find a list of products that contain this stuff. A google search results in page after page after page of OMGFUD references.
    The B.S. references are photos that resemble ransom notes. One thing you can depend on is Americans' propensity to shoot themselves in the foot while the rest of the world doesn't care.

    • Many degreasers and chemicals used in the fine machinery manufacturing process contain TCE and BEN. Wave solder flux baths are known to contain TCE and Acetone. TCE is used in many manufacturing processes. It's also very toxic.

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