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Crime Printer

New York Bill Would Require a Criminal Background Check To Buy a 3D Printer (gizmodo.com) 204

Posted by BeauHD from the patching-loopholes dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Gizmodo: New York residents eyeing a new 3D printer may soon have to submit a criminal background check if a newly proposed state bill becomes law. The recently introduced legislation, authored by state senator Jenifer Rajkumar, aims to snub out an increasingly popular loophole where convicted felons who would otherwise be prohibited from legally buying a firearm instead simply 3D print individual components to create an untraceable "ghost gun." If passed, New York would join a growing body of states placing restrictions on 3D printers in the name of public safety.

The New York bill, called AB A8132, would require a criminal history background check for anyone attempting to purchase a 3D printer capable of fabricating a firearm. It would similarly prohibit the sale of those printers to anyone with a criminal history that disqualifies them from owning a firearm. As it's currently written, the bill doesn't clarify what models or makes of printers would potentially fall under this broad category. The bill defines a three-dimensional printer as a "device capable of producing a three-dimensional object from a digital model." "Three-dimensionally printed firearms, a type of untraceable ghost gun, can be built by anyone using a $150 three-dimensional printer," Rajkumar wrote in a memorandum explaining the bill. "This bill will require a background check so that three-dimensional printed firearms do not get in the wrong hands."

The NYPD has reported a 60% increase in seized ghost guns over the past two years. Meanwhile, on a national level, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives reported a 1083% increase in ghost gun recoveries from 2017-2021, figures they say are likely underreported.
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New York Bill Would Require a Criminal Background Check To Buy a 3D Printer More

New York Bill Would Require a Criminal Background Check To Buy a 3D Printer

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  • So... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:28PM (#63929845)

    Will the same apply to drills and springs?

    • Re: So... (Score:5, Informative)

      by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:11PM (#63929961)

      Don't forget plumbing parts, which are even easier to use to make firearms with than 3d printers:

      https://www.offgridweb.com/sur... [offgridweb.com]

      So also any tools for soldering or welding are also right out as they could make it a more effective weapon. Until somebody builds one with sharkbite type connectors, then other things like rubber gaskets and sealant as well.

      Though I'm surprised they haven't gone after CNC milling equipment yet, but they are going after 3d printers...

      I guess after this proves futile, next step is to make it hard to produce gunpowder, so urine will need to be regulated...

    • Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dbialac ( 320955 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:33PM (#63930033)
      There seems to be a bit of a hole in this plan. Perhaps one could just go to Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts or Ontario and buy one there instead.
    • No, only to "assault-style" 3D printers.
    • Just lease it.
    • SpaceX 3D prints rocket engines.
    • And files.

    • Will the same apply to drills and springs?

      Don't forget rubber bands! Those bastards sting!

  • and takeing an 3D Printer across state lines = fel (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:31PM (#63929853)

    and takeing an 3D Printer across state lines = felony?

    • Depends on which state and if you filed your 5320.20 in time and got it approved...

  • Fertilizer and diesel fuel (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gavron ( 1300111 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:33PM (#63929857)

    Fertilizer and diesel. That makes for a potent explosive. TImothy Mcveigh used some to level an FBI building.

    Will that be unlawful to possess now?

    CASH. It's used to commit a lot more crime than gunzezez ("ghost" or not). Most often in New York and New Jersey, where corruption is rampant. Will the representatives from our east coast mafia states make CASH illegal?

    What a bunch of performative shits.

    • due to shoplifting home depot will need an ID to enter the store.

    • Re:Fertilizer and diesel fuel (Score:5, Informative)

      by cstacy ( 534252 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:35PM (#63930037)

      Fertilizer and diesel. That makes for a potent explosive. TImothy Mcveigh used some to level an FBI building.

      Yes: sales of those are already tracked, as a result of that domestic terror attack.

      Also, didn't they start putting something (micro pellets?) in fertilizer to help figure out where it was distributed from (so you can look at boom residue and figure out how to match it to the sale?)

      • the purchase of diesel fuel is entirely unmonitored (unmonitored is NOT a word? Interesting.)

        The purchase of fertilizer is mostly unmonitored unless you are purchasing large quantities at once.

        They do have small pieces of plastic in the fertilizer that identify which batch of fertilizer the explosives came from. This allows them to trace chain of custody. That means you can buy small amounts of fertilizer from numerous places to get enough to build a bomb without notice, but considering the fact that you ar

    • Re:Fertilizer and diesel fuel (Score:5, Informative)

      by caseih ( 160668 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @07:10PM (#63930237)

      It's a certain kind of fertilizer, ammonium nitrate that can be used as an explosive... a whole warehouse of the stuff exploded in Lebanon a few years ago.

      Ever since the Oklahoma City bombings, Ammonium nitrate has been heavily restricted and essentially phased out in favor of other, less-volatile nitrogen fertlizers such as Urea and Urea Ammonium Nitrate (UAN 28), which require some additional steps to turn into an explosive. You have to really look to find old-fashioned ammonium nitrate pellets and retailers ask questions when you do.

      But besides that the fact that it is so volatile means it's not used much anymore other good, safer, options.

  • I can just imagine the reddit posts... (Score:5, Informative)

    by yababom ( 6840236 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:34PM (#63929859)

    "Fix my print: is the barrel supposed to curve like this?"
    "Can someone help me with the layer adhesion on my stock?"
    "Will dual Z-screw plus frame extensions help my Ender 3 print this rifle?"

    Honestly... This guy has no idea how much the average person struggles to even print a benchy (that's a toy boat model, for you FBI snoops) on a $150 printer. There is no way an Ender3 clone could print out any functional gun parts without an EXPERT tuning all the settings and filament choices. And if your an expert in printing high precision parts, you aren't wasting your time on cheap printers.

    • "Fix my print: is the barrel supposed to curve like this?" "Can someone help me with the layer adhesion on my stock?" "Will dual Z-screw plus frame extensions help my Ender 3 print this rifle?"

      Honestly... This guy has no idea how much the average person struggles to even print a benchy (that's a toy boat model, for you FBI snoops) on a $150 printer. There is no way an Ender3 clone could print out any functional gun parts without an EXPERT tuning all the settings and filament choices. And if your an expert in printing high precision parts, you aren't wasting your time on cheap printers.

      3D printers have gotten crazy good lately. I remember struggling with one of the first available hobby printers (a RepRap I think), and it was a challenge to print anything to completion. Not anymore. With some modern printers, you scan the barcode on the spool of filament and the software and printer are automatically set with the right parameters for that material. My last printer (a Prusa) was plug and play, set up, turn on, load filament and print. The first print came out flawless (it was a Benchy)

      • My last printer (a Prusa) was plug and play, set up, turn on, load filament and print. The first print came out flawless (it was a Benchy).

        Name a Prusa that you can get for $150 new and you might have a point. But the smallest Prusa printers start at $400+ and I bet yours cost you $800 or more--which is over 5 times the $150 cost this legislation is targeting. And that's not even taking into account that precision parts would probably need to be printed in enclosed printers and high-strength filaments to avoid warping.

        I think my point stands: $150 3d printers are not a valid target for gun legislation.

        • I haven't read the actual bill, but it sounds like they are targeting "3D printers capable of printing a firearm", not specifically the $150 ones. Besides, by the time this bill goes into effect, maybe the $150 printers will already be capable of producing the necessary parts for a ghost gun. The Bambu A1 mini is $300 or so, and it's as hassle free as its bigger brothers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by NuttyBee ( 90438 )

      I'm not the only one! I literally could not get the Creality I bought to print anything. I ended up returning it. After much research, I think that a filament warmer/feeder wasn't working right.. But, I can't tell you how much time it took to get to that point. I'm sure some 13 yr old kid could school me in what I should have been doing or how to do basic tasks like cut this part out of a "drawing" and print it, but I don't have one of those.

      If I were in need of a gun, I know exactly where mine ar

  • Are 3D printed guns really a thing? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:34PM (#63929861)
    I haven't looked in a while, and it was a huge pain sorting fact from fiction even back then, but from what I could tell they were just as likely to blow up in your hand than to fire a bullet and had terrible accuracy (though if you're close enough that probably doesn't matter).

    Any gun nuts know if that's changed?

    Also, as usual, cop math. 463 guns seized sounds big but it looks like a) just the grip and b) any Ghost Gun they find gets seized because they're inherently illegal, meaning the sample size is skewed.

    • All I know is what a gunsmith said to me, based on professional opinion but without experimental data.

      She didn't think a 3-D printed barrel would be up to the job.

      If they're passing proof tests now, never mind.

      • The magic word is "delamination."

        Unlike metal which conspicuously wanders out of its elastic regime or doesn't, 3d prints don't have an elastic regime, and just because it fires the first shot doesn't mean it won't cripple you for life on the second.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by TW0lf ( 1434885 )
        Barrels cannot be printed and last more than one shot, no. However, it isn't that difficult to rifle a hydraulic tube using Electro-Chemical Machining using printed parts for the mandrill. There still needs to be a lot of other metal parts like screws and springs, so they are detectable with metal detectors, but you can make a reliable firearm without any actual firearm parts. Look at the FGC-9 or Partisan-9 as examples.

    • Re:Are 3D printed guns really a thing? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) * on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:12PM (#63929969)

      The whole concept of "ghost guns" is absolutely filled with cop math. Regular guns with the serial number filed off get lumped into "ghost guns" as do ones with home-milled lowers. The danger of 3D printed guns effectively zero. If this bill was in any way trying to deter the construction of illegal guns it would try controlling mills and drill presses rather than 3D printers.

      • Re:Are 3D printed guns really a thing? (Score:5, Informative)

        by FrankSchwab ( 675585 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:18PM (#63929985) Journal

        According to TFA:
        "The bill defines a three-dimensional printer as a âoedevice capable of producing a three-dimensional object from a digital model.â

        Umm, that sounds like a CNC mill to me....

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          According to TFA: "The bill defines a three-dimensional printer as a âoedevice capable of producing a three-dimensional object from a digital model.â

          Umm, that sounds like a CNC mill to me....

          Or a CNC lathe, or a skilled human with drills and files and chisels, or....

          When guns are illegal, only criminals will have power tools.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cstacy ( 534252 )

        The whole concept of "ghost guns" is absolutely filled with cop math. Regular guns with the serial number filed off get lumped into "ghost guns" as do ones with home-milled lowers. The danger of 3D printed guns effectively zero. If this bill was in any way trying to deter the construction of illegal guns it would try controlling mills and drill presses rather than 3D printers.

        But something must be done! Think of the children! Think of the election! We are out in front on this, making you safer!

        (TM)

      • The whole concept of "ghost guns" is absolutely filled with cop math. Regular guns with the serial number filed off get lumped into "ghost guns" as do ones with home-milled lowers. The danger of 3D printed guns effectively zero. If this bill was in any way trying to deter the construction of illegal guns it would try controlling mills and drill presses rather than 3D printers.

        Mills, drill presses, and steel tubing. Steel tubing probably the biggest one to knock off the pedestal. Anybody buying pipes made of anything other than copper or plastic should be suspect! NO COMPROMISES! Never mind that you could also be building a bicycle, a motorcycle, a race car frame, a sculpture. It *CAN* be used for nefarious purpose? YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

        This whole thing just strikes me as a weirdly inept power grab. Though I'm not sure what power they're trying to grab. I wonder if the people pushi

    • It’s the receiver, or body, of any firearm that’s the serialized part that is tracked. You can’t possibly print a barrel or even most of the other parts. With the right pre-purchased components, you use the print only as a glorified handle and the rest just assemble as usual including the entire upper receiver which is not tracked. The receiver is the only part you need to print to skirt tracking/laws. Still could possibly blow/break apart but because all the components are machined f
      • And that's the bizarre part. Instead of regulating the hard-to-manufacture critical components of the gun such as the barrel (as is done in pretty much every other country), it's the relatively easy to machine (or print) frame or lower receiver which is regulated. And of course that can never change because 2nd amendment, so the regulate 3D printers instead?!

        Some people have printed functioning barrels for .22lr rounds. "Functional" meaning that it fired a few times without failing, but using it carri

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cstacy ( 534252 )

          And that's the bizarre part. Instead of regulating the hard-to-manufacture critical components of the gun such as the barrel (as is done in pretty much every other country), it's the relatively easy to machine (or print) frame or lower receiver which is regulated. And of course that can never change because 2nd amendment, so the regulate 3D printers instead?!

          If the law were challenged on the basis of the Second Amendment, it would be struck down, as the Constitution definitely protects the right of individuals to manufacture firearms. But this is probably going to be more of a First Amendment issue, like regulating printing presses. Or perhaps something related to the Commerce powers. In any event, it's going to be struck down as soon as it's enforced. It's ridiculous. But it's not bizarre that politicians would try to do something idiotic like this.

        • Some people have printed functioning barrels for .22lr rounds. "Functional" meaning that it fired a few times without failing, but using it carries the risk of having to pick bits of plastic out of your face later.

          I haven’t seen any 3-D printed barrels, only DIY machining your own from round bar with something like a lathe. It’s not just the 50kpsi or so created in the barrel, the temperatures and low modulus of elasticity of plastics compared to steels means the barrel would have to be insanely thick to not just blow open and even still it’s going to be a gooey melted mess. Just a traditional zip gun is probably more effective and a bad one doesn’t need expensive machine tools.

          • They exist, but as you said they are rather thick, impractical and they don't stand up to sustained use. Still... from a few people who put a 3D printed short barrel on an AR15 style rifle: "According to one tester, the fully-printed barrel was able to withstand 65 rounds of .22 LR being fired through it before failing." Best not google that unless you want to be on every no-fly list...

            The difference is: you still need some skill to machine a functional barrel from stock. 3D printing one, on a modern
            • I found it on bing, still though with the most expensive printers and optimal filament it’s going to be much worse than something you could make from 5” of round bar and a drill press or even just a hand drill and vise in 5 minutes.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      Some, but most of these ghost guns are not 3D printed, they were built from "80%" kits. Basically you buy a lower that's only 80% completed. You use some jigs and tools to finish it. These 80% kits don't (or didn't, they may have closed that recently) need to be registered as a firearm. So you end up with a fully working firearm with no serial # and no real traceable history.

      The 3D printer part is just hysteria. Yes, you can print one, but they generally suck and why bother when you can get one of the 80%

      • Re:Are 3D printed guns really a thing? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @06:48PM (#63930193)

        These 80% kits don't (or didn't, they may have closed that recently) need to be registered as a firearm.

        As of now, they do [cnn.com]. The Supreme Court unanimously bitch slapped the 5th Circuit judges who ignored the previous ruling which said the administration could continue to regulate these kits as firearms until cases work their way through the lower courts. The 5th Circuit felt they didn't have to follow what the Supreme Court said, and this is the result.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rlwinm ( 6158720 )
      Why 3D print it when you can just machine a proper one? It's really not that hard and lots of us nerds are into metal working.

    • Yes but the good ones include like a parts kit of real guns.

      Like barrel and lock even aren't a "gun" in usa. In most countries you can't just buy most parts to make a gun without them being gun but in usa you basically just have to print the part that holds the gun parts which would have the serial and not the parts that hold pressure while firing.

      This legislation is pretty dumb, you can also buy the 3d printer parts without them being a 3d printer.

    • I haven't looked in a while, and it was a huge pain sorting fact from fiction even back then, but from what I could tell they were just as likely to blow up in your hand than to fire a bullet and had terrible accuracy (though if you're close enough that probably doesn't matter).

      While there "are" people trying to print the whole things....the far more common act is to 3-D print, for example, the serialized part of a pistol, usually like a Glock.

      This is basically the polymer handgrip and lower section whe

    • Based on what most hobby 3D printers produce? That'd be a big fat nopers. Banning 3D printers seems more a desperation move, or another in the long list of security theater antics than an attempt to solve an actual problem.

      Maybe there's some super awesome industrial 3D printer that literally nobody outside of some massive corporation would buy that could produce a valid barrel for more than a single test shot, but I can't believe anyone involved in government is trying to prevent a corporation from doing .

  • That's pretty dumb (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:36PM (#63929869)

    I mean, any idiot can go to a hardware store and buy the required components to make a zip gun... and you're far less likely to lose fingers firing it.

    We should ban hardware stores.

  • I predict a growing market ... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) <addw@phcomp.co.uk> on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:37PM (#63929871) Homepage

    in second hand 3D printers. I suspect that 3D printers will be at greater risk of theft. Congratulation for trying, how to make it work will be interesting.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Which part is the printer? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SirSpanksALot ( 7630868 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:10PM (#63929957)
    If they do this, they'll need to define which part is the printer (Like they do for guns). Is it the logic board? The stepper motors? The hotend?

    Otherwise, I can just buy the parts, and build it myself with no background check. A Ghost Printer if you will.
    • Printers should be required to microstamp the parts they produce so they can be traced back to the printer. If it saves even one life it is worth it.

  • Stupid Politicians= Stupid Legislation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by GregMmm ( 5115215 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:18PM (#63929987)

    I knows, if we make background checks on them 3D printers we can get rid of them ghost guns. Ya cause they be scary.

    Good night, this is stupid. I can't tell you how useless this will be. This is the same silliness of background checks for firearms. If you're a bad person, you most likely will not follow the legal way to get the gun.

    Did the genius' try to figure out where they are coming from? Gee I guess I could just buy the 3D printer in another state and ship the ghost gun there.

    And the definition of 3D printer is sooo vague. "device capable of producing a three-dimensional object from a digital model." Every metal shop/mill will not have to have background checks for their metal mills.

  • Ghost Gun = Legal (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bryanandaimee ( 2454338 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:19PM (#63929991) Homepage
    Hobby level gunsmiths have been making un-serialized and untraceable guns for centuries. That's what gunsmithing is all about. It is perfectly legal in the US. It would only be illegal if you sold it to someone else.

    Are we going to require a background check before buying a lathe, drill press, milling machine, cnc, etc?

    Also, calling a 3D printer a "three dimensional" printer just makes you sound like an idiot. Technically true, but full of yourself and out of touch.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )

      Hobby level gunsmiths have been making un-serialized and untraceable guns for centuries. That's what gunsmithing is all about. It is perfectly legal in the US.

      Not in every state. Not anymore, at least.

      Are we going to require a background check before buying a lathe, drill press, milling machine, cnc, etc?

      Probably, give it time. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened yet.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cstacy ( 534252 )

      Hobby level gunsmiths have been making un-serialized and untraceable guns for centuries. That's what gunsmithing is all about. It is perfectly legal in the US. It would only be illegal if you sold it to someone else.

      Actually, selling it is perfectly legal, too. You just need to "serialize" it, which involves making a mark of almost anything of your choosing. And such "serial numbers" (and the fact that you're making and selling guns) is not registered or otherwise know to the government.

      If you do it enough, though, or if you are advertising and stuff, then you are a gun business, in which case you do need to get involved with the government.

      But small amounts of personal manufacture and personal sale: totally legal and

  • Three-dimensionally printed firearms, a type of untraceable ghost gun, can be built by anyone using a $150 three-dimensional printer

    ...and a parts kit

    3D printed guns, at least the ones that work are actually just 3D printed receivers. The barrel, bolt, etc... are regular, factory made gun parts.

    It exploits a loophole in US laws that say that only the lower receiver counts as the "gun", the rest are just unmarked spare parts. And it turns out that receivers are among the easiest parts to make with a 3D printer. Closing that loophole would make more sense than regulating 3D printers. A full gun could still be made with a home made barrel

  • Lotta babies (Score:3)

    by byronivs ( 1626319 ) on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:28PM (#63930021) Journal

    being thrown out here with this bath water.

  • Won't somebody please think of the children?!?! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:51PM (#63930063)
    Stupid laws like this are further ostracizing children from disadvantaged families. One of your parents or relatives have a criminal record? To bad, Jimmy, you can't have a 3D printer and you'll be locked out of all STEM activities. Social maths for you!

  • RepRap Darwin still goes brrrrrr

  • ... in the olympics of stupidity

  • It's absurdly easy to voice your objection by following the link in summary above.
    Write a quick, polite note - it takes minutes.

  • If the US had sane gun laws, you wouldn't even have the suggestion of questionable ones like this.

  • The party of science, hard at work.

    Next up: a background check to purchase metal tubes.

  • Skilled and educated people need to be monitored - clearly most law-abiding people just buy things rather than making them. Making stuff at home is bad for factories and deprives Americans of jobs!

    • That's the thing here - most of the people even printing 3d firearms are just genuinely curious nerds. I've got a 3d printed Glock clone at home that I've made and fired (with 3d printed magazines and a 3d printed holster). I've also got plenty of factory made handguns. I didn't print one to get around any laws I did so because it would be a new little project to do.

      Tinkerers gonna tinker.

  • In 2020, the NYPD recovered 150 ghost guns. In 2021, cops seized 263, and last year, 463 ghost guns were recovered.

    Wow, that's a lot of 3D printed guns... that's 463 ghost guns out of how many total guns seized in NYC in 2022?

    Ghost guns are assembled by people at home, without a background check or license. The parts are bought online or made by 3D printers, and they do not have serial numbers, making them difficult to trace.

    Oh look, "Ghost Guns" encompass not only 3D-printed weapons, but also guns assembled from store-bought parts?

    I'm curious how keeping 3D printers out of the hands of convicted criminals keeps people from assembling "Ghost Guns"?

    "We feel that these individuals with guns in their hand can cause the most damage to New York City," said Courtney Nilan, who heads the NYPDâ(TM)s Field Intelligence Program.

    How? How can Ghost Guns "cause the most damage to New York City"? Most "ghost gun" plantain aware of were for one or two-shot weapons, you can't "ghost print" a semi-automat

    • (you can't 3D print an AR-15 Lower Receiver, that's the part that feeds ammo into the Upper Receiver to be fired).

      Um, yes you can. You're way out of date on your info.

      Google "Orca 3d printed gun".

      You need a barrel and a bolt-carrier group (neither are regulated parts), but the upper, lower, stock, and handguard are all printed.

  • Major issue here: the 3d printer community is basically a subset of the "maker" community. This is people who like to build things from scratch . . . including 3d printers themselves.

    You can build quite a few open source 3d printers from scratch that are perfectly capable of printing a firearm. That also explains a lot of the interest in printing firearms. While some criminals may do this as a loophole a LOT of these people are just curious tinkerers who like designing and making things, including guns.

    T

  • In leftist utopia everything not forbidden is compulsory.

  • About as insightful as banning plastic straws or Big Gulps.

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