MSG Probed Over Use of Facial Recognition To Eject Lawyers From Show Venues

An anonymous reader quotes a report from ArsTechnica: The operator of Madison Square Garden and Radio City Music Hall is being probed by New York's attorney general over the company's use of facial recognition technology to identify and exclude lawyers from events. AG Letitia James' office said the policy may violate civil rights laws. Because of the policy, lawyers who work for firms involved in litigation against MSG Entertainment Corp. can be denied entry to shows or sporting events, even when they have no direct involvement in any lawsuits against MSG. A lawyer who is subject to MSG's policy may buy a ticket to an event but be unable to get in because the MSG venues use facial recognition to identify them.

In December, attorney Kelly Conlon was denied entry into Radio City Music Hall in New York when she accompanied her daughter's Girl Scout troop to a Rockettes show. Conlon wasn't personally involved in any lawsuits against MSG but is a lawyer for a firm that "has been involved in personal injury litigation against a restaurant venue now under the umbrella of MSG Entertainment," NBC New York reported. James' office sent a letter (PDF) Tuesday to MSG Entertainment, noting reports that it "used facial recognition software to forbid all lawyers in all law firms representing clients engaged in any litigation against the Company from entering the Company's venues in New York, including the use of any season tickets."

"We write to raise concerns that the Policy may violate the New York Civil Rights Law and other city, state, and federal laws prohibiting discrimination and retaliation for engaging in protected activity," Assistant AG Kyle Rapinan of the Civil Rights Bureau wrote in the letter. "Such practices certainly run counter to the spirit and purpose of such laws, and laws promoting equal access to the courts: forbidding entry to lawyers representing clients who have engaged in litigation against the Company may dissuade such lawyers from taking on legitimate cases, including sexual harassment or employment discrimination claims." The AG's office also said it is concerned that "facial recognition software may be plagued with biases and false positives against people of color and women." The letter asked MSG Entertainment to respond by February 13 "to state the justifications for the Company's Policy and identify all efforts you are undertaking to ensure compliance with all applicable laws and that the Company's use of facial recognition technology will not lead to discrimination." "To be clear, our policy does not unlawfully prohibit anyone from entering our venues and it is not our intent to dissuade attorneys from representing plaintiffs in litigation against us," said an MSG spokesperson in a statement. "We are merely excluding a small percentage of lawyers only during active litigation. Most importantly, to even suggest anyone is being excluded based on the protected classes identified in state and federal civil rights laws is ludicrous. Our policy has never applied to attorneys representing plaintiffs who allege sexual harassment or employment discrimination."

Well that was smart

[alvinrod]

If you're going to stick your dick in a hornets nest, it may as well be one filled with lawyers.

Re:

[Bite The Pillow]

I love MSG, it goes on everything.

What's all this fuss?

MSG Owner Dolan threatens to stop alocohol sales

[ardmhacha]

Dolan picks a fight the the State liquor authority over the issue, threatens to stop alcohol sales at a hockey game, and holds up contact information of the head of the state liquor authority. Just Jimmy Dolan being his usual self.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/26/... [nypost.com]

Owner James Dolan is threatening to pick a night at the Garden, possibly a Rangers game, to shut down alcohol sales in response to the New York State Liquor Authority investigating Dolan about his facial recognition technology that has resulted in bans against lawyers suing him.

“They’re being extremely aggressive and they’re saying, ‘We’re gonna take away your liquor license,’ ” Dolan said of the SLA during an appearance on “Good Day New York” on Fox 5. “So I have a little surprise for ‘em. They’re basically doing this for publicity, so we’re gonna give ‘em some publicity. What we’re gonna do, right, is we’re gonna pick a night, maybe a Rangers game, and we’re gonna shut down all the liquor and alcohol in the building. This isn’t gonna bother me because I’ve been sober 29 years. I don’t need the liquor.”

Dolan then held up a sign with a photo of Sharif Kabir, the CEO of the State Liquor Authority, along with his contact information. He said the signs will also ask fans to call Kabir if they want to drink at games

(Coworkers of) snitches get stitches?

[Somervillain]

The problem here is that lawyers hired here are representing people accusing the company of breaking the law and in retaliation, MSG is banning unrelated coworkers from using their services...and in this case, the person affected isn't even remotely involved with their case. It definitely should be illegal, especially for such a large company, if it isn't already.

Hey MSG, how about just following the law instead of punishing those who work in the same building as those assisting people who accuse you of the law? I wonder how many local tax breaks and subsidies they're reaping in the meantime.

Re:(Coworkers of) snitches get stitches?

[CaptQuark]

It's called freedom of association, and it's protected by the First Amendment.

Interesting right not often cited.

The freedom of association — unlike the rights of religion, speech, press, assembly, and petition — is a right not listed in the First Amendment but recognized by the courts as a fundamental right. There are two types of freedom of association: the right to expressive association and the right to intimate association. Additionally, the First Amendment protects a right to associate and a right not to associate together. https://www.mtsu.edu/first-ame... [mtsu.edu]

Also:

Freedom of association is both an individual right and a collective right, guaranteed by all modern and democratic legal systems, including the United States Bill of Rights, article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights, section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and international law, including articles 20 and 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and article 22 of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work by the International Labour Organization also ensures these rights. Freedom of association [wikipedia.org]

Additional citation: https://constitution.findlaw.c... [findlaw.com]

Re:

[MrKaos]

It's called freedom of association, and it's protected by the First Amendment.

Interesting right not often cited.

It's exactly what Facebook was designed to map.

Re:

[SvnLyrBrto]

This lawyer doesn't even work in the same building. She works in another branch of thew firm in an entirely different state.

Re:

[N1AK]

It's not an irrelevant point but I'm interested in how you think this should influence the situation. Is it ok to bar people if they are involved in lawsuits against you, but only if their involvement breaches a certain threshold? Does the office manager for the office that is handling the lawsuit get a pass? How about the paralegal who handled some of the paperwork for a week when a colleague was off? The partner who signed off on accepting it but has no active involvement in proceedings? A lawyer involved

Re: (Coworkers of) snitches get stitches?

[Nunya Beezwax]

You really think lawyers donâ(TM)t talk with each other in the office about their work or when they are out for their 3 Bellini lunches? âoeOh Bob you have to see what I got on video last night at MSG when I was taking my kids to a game!â

Have you met lawyers?

[Somervillain]

You really think lawyers donâ(TM)t talk with each other in the office about their work or when they are out for their 3 Bellini lunches? âoeOh Bob you have to see what I got on video last night at MSG when I was taking my kids to a game!â

Big law lawyers are too overworked to have regular casual lunches and their weekends are typically spent working and their remaining time is spent trying to crunch at home and make up all the time they missed out on with their spouses and children.

I know about 50 lawyers really well, about a dozen I am really close to....like I've been to their weddings, greeted them in the hospital after they had their first kid, gone to their housewarming parties, etc. They are not a social bunch. They're a miserable

Re: (Coworkers of) snitches get stitches?

[St.Creed]

Hey USA, what about implementing some privacy laws? Or do they impair businesses too much in the general fucking-over-the-public activities?

In the EU this company would be looking at a really big fine.

Fight about the courtâ¦

[memory_register]

end up in court.

This may be breach ticket sale contract

[Alain Williams]

The lawyers presumably had bought tickets before they arrived, either on-line or through an agent. Were they warned that they might not be allowed in because of who they worked for? I have not looked the T&Cs of MSG venues, I doubt that even these lawyers did before they bought tickets.

How did MSG get hold of face images of all these lawyers ? Is this use legal ? I know that this is the USA, a data protection wild west, but in Europe this would fall foul of the GDPR.

Re:

[quonset]

Were they warned that they might not be allowed in because of who they worked for?

Without seeing it, I'm certain there is some catch-all clause in the ticket TOS that would cover this. Something as simple as, "We reserve the right to refuse admittance to any individual or group."

IHow did MSG get hold of face images of all these lawyers ?

The vast majority of attorneys post their pictures on the company web site. It's not difficult to scrape the images and put them in a database for later use.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd go after my damages for all associated arrangements with being denied entry, loss of the opportunity to see X (I could have caught it in Boston the day before...).

If you know enough about me to deny me entry when I present myself, you know enough about me to refuse to sell me the ticket. One you've sold me that ticket, you've waived your right to refuse me entry because of who I am.

I'll admit that theory doesn't exactly brim with statutory references or contract law maxims, but I think it has a certa

Re:

[N1AK]

You got the part where MSG is using this to ban LAWYERS? Do you think anyone gives a damn about your opinions on the viability of a lawsuit rather than that of the LAWYERS being refused entry? Did you stop for a second to think that maybe you're more ignorant on the legality of this than you realise given that it appears the LAWYERS actually being affected haven't as of yet succesfully sued MSG on that basis?

Re:

[Mitreya]

ticket TOS that would cover this. Something as simple as, "We reserve the right to refuse admittance to any individual or group."

It's unfortunate that a TOS on a ticket can do that. Eventually, corporations will team up together and start sharing "banned because we don't like you" lists. Then, all enemy lawyers may be banned from every entertainment venue in the country (concerts, movie theaters, etc).
I was happy to hear that at least alcohol license may not allow arbitrary bans like this.

Re: This may be breach ticket sale contract

[Nunya Beezwax]

Literally the majority of law firms post the pics of their lawyers on their websites with profiles. I bet you at least 98.6 % of lawyers have their social media including their pics also. And itâ(TM)s not hard to hire private investigators to get pics of people coming out of an office building.

Thought this meant monosodium glutamate

[jfdavis668]

I think far more people think of this when you hear MSG than think about Madison Square Garden.

Re:

[Locke2005]

Remind me to not have you cook for me.

Re:

[Mononymous]

Because you prefer the taste of Madison Square Garden?

Re:

[Darinbob]

There's definitely one of those two that you don't want to taste.

Inevitable result

[Locke2005]

I predict a lot more people will show up for concerts looking like members of ZZ Top!

Bacon #

[bugs2squash]

If they ban everyone connected at all with Kevin Bacon we're all screwed

Re:

[Briareos]

Mmmm... bacon.

I got no love for MGM, but

[hdyoung]

I completely understand why they would do this. This day and age, a hostile lawyer can walk onto my property, and if they see a single wad of chewing gum on the ground, they can haul my ass into court for attempted murder, hygiene violations, assault with a food-grade weapon, violating at least half a dozen of their constitutional rights, and probably 8 other things that I can’t even imagine. I’ll go bankrupt defending against it and I’ll be old and gray by the time it’s over.

Our

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

Seems like that would be a great opportunity for an org like MSG to make some quick and easy cash. The lawsuit is obviously frivolous and will be thrown out of court with prejudice, resulting in sanctions for the lawyer who brought it.

If you follow Lawful Masses on YouTube he covers this kind of thing regularly. BS lawsuits and lawyers trying to make a quick buck, who end up paying the price.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Eh?

[ChoGGi]

The AG's office also said it is concerned that "facial recognition software may be plagued with biases and false positives against people of color and women.

But not men?

Re: Eh?

[Nunya Beezwax]

Yeah itâ(TM)s been known for a while actually that face Rec doesnâ(TM)t work as well in women. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2112.146... [arxiv.org]

Re:

[ChoGGi]

Our experiments show
that (1) gendered hairstyles result in, on average, more of the
face being occluded for females, (2) makeup use degrades the
female genuine distribution, and (3) the inherent variability
between different female faces is lower than for males, leading
to a worse impostor distribution.

That sounds more like issues with hairstyle and makeup rather than gender?

Re:

[nycdave]

Everything from "Letitia" James is racism, racism, racism. She's a race baiter. She ran on prosecuting Trump, so gauge her qualifications and professional ethics accordingly. The thing that none of them are saying is in NYC if the management wants you out of their place of business, you're out. They can call the police, have you removed "for any reason" and "trespass" you. You are required to sign paperwork that says you understand if you come back, you will be arrested. And before you jump in and say, "th

Re:

[ChoGGi]

I'll happily admit to being very entertained by James Dolan recently.

It's not as if anybody actually likes lawyers (possibly excluding those temporarily on your side).

Nothing to see here, says MSG

[Bu11etmagnet]

> Our policy has never applied to attorneys representing plaintiffs who allege sexual harassment or employment discrimination

It only applies to their colleagues.

What's the excuse?

[quantaman]

Normally with a policy like this the company tries to come up with some reasonable sounding explanation as to why their policy is totally reasonable, instead, this was their response:

"To be clear, our policy does not unlawfully prohibit anyone from entering our venues and it is not our intent to dissuade attorneys from representing plaintiffs in litigation against us," said an MSG spokesperson in a statement. "We are merely excluding a small percentage of lawyers only during active litigation. Most importan