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Government United States

Drought-Stricken States To Get Less From Colorado River (apnews.com) 156

For the second year in a row, Arizona and Nevada will face cuts in the amount of water they can draw from the Colorado River as the West endures an extreme drought, federal officials announced Tuesday. The Associated Press reports: The cuts planned for next year will force states to make critical decisions about where to reduce consumption and whether to prioritize growing cities or agricultural areas. The cuts will also place state officials under renewed pressure to plan for a hotter, drier future and a growing population. Mexico will also face cuts. "We are taking steps to protect the 40 million people who depend on the Colorado River for their lives and livelihoods," said Camille Touton, commissioner of the Bureau of Reclamation.

The river provides water across seven states and in Mexico and helps feed an agricultural industry valued at $15 billion a year. Cities and farms are anxiously awaiting official estimates of the river's future water levels that will determine the extent and scope of cuts to their water supply. That's not all. In addition to those already-agreed-to cuts, the Bureau of Reclamation said Tuesday that states had missed a deadline to propose at least 15% more cuts needed to keep water levels at the river's storage reservoirs from dropping even more. For example, officials have predicted that water levels at Lake Mead, the nation's largest reservoir, will plummet further. The lake is currently less than a quarter full. "The states collectively have not identified and adopted specific actions of sufficient magnitude that would stabilize the system," Touton said.

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Drought-Stricken States To Get Less From Colorado River

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  • This is bad (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Babel-17 ( 1087541 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @08:37PM (#62795393)

    I guess it's a good time to re-watch Chinatown though.

    • Re:This is bad (Score:4, Informative)

      by Ziest ( 143204 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @09:03PM (#62795451) Homepage

      Time to re-read Cadillac Desert

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • Re: This is bad (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fortfive ( 1582005 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @09:50PM (#62795571)

      It is bad, but itâ(TM)s also solvable with smarter resource allocation.

      Yes, we have to give up lawns and golf courses and inappropriate ag. But simply revising the antiquated prior rights regime will allow an equitable redistribution and flow the water where itâ(TM)s best used.

  • by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @08:39PM (#62795399)

    After a few years of hearing this as a coming crisis, it's going to be very interesting to hear what gets cut and how. And how do you enforce it?

    For instance, no lawn watering is probably on the immediate horizon. But how do you figure out who's watering their lawn surreptitiously? Sheer water utilization? Neighborhood watches? And how do you handle it? Fines, I assume - but that would mean being caught in the act.

    In what order to you cut agriculture use? By region? By crop? Perhaps by whomever greases enough palms to go last?

    My guess is the poorest suffer first.

    • Re:Hard Choices (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Joce640k ( 829181 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @08:45PM (#62795411) Homepage

      how do you figure out who's watering their lawn surreptitiously?

      It's greener than all the others?

    • by godrik ( 1287354 )

      My guess is that they are caping at the intakes. There are probably pipes from the river to massive reservoir that serve to feed local regions. You should be able to have the state agree to report how much they take.

      And getting caught taking more is probably a gigantic federal law suite so states wouldn't actually take more.

      Now, you probably can't prevent minor hyper local taps. But you should be able to get a sense by measuring water flow and volume up stream and downstream. If there is a significant diffe

    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @10:03PM (#62795583)
      Do we stop voting for pro corporate, right wing borderline fascists and take about 60 billion dollars to build desalinization plants and solar and wind power them, or do we keep choosing political candidates based on which one has the best advertisements and the most fun rallies until we're either all forced to move to New States fleeing the drought or if we are in a State without a drought have to figure out how to pay $15 for a gallon of milk because the hyperinflation from tens of millions of people flooding into are cities.

      Decisions, decisions.

      Seriously I hate to call you out for it but you need to stop acting like it doesn't affect you. One of the major problems Americans have is we no longer think of ourselves as americans. We're not one people anymore we're a heavily divided group of hyper individuals all obsessed with protecting our little fiefdoms.

      This is not a hard problem to solve. Take some money, build some desalinization plants, and then spend a few trillion dollars transforming our energy system to use wind and solar so that we can put the kibosh on climate change. We know what we need to do we just have to be willing to do it.

      There is a catch though. A whole bunch of people you don't like are going to get water and electricity too. Blue haired girls who yell at you. Woke activists. Weird looking trans people who get angry at you when you give them looks because they're weird looking. Basically all the people you were taught to punch down on. Right now you're reaching for that down my button because just mentioning those folks has got your triggered like you were trained to do. Like a Pavlov dog but for politics.

      I'm here to save you need to stop falling for that punching down propaganda and you need to do it fast. You need to learn when people are pushing your buttons and how they push your buttons. Because otherwise in a few years the American southwest is going to empty out into the rest of the country and in the meantime all the food and beef and meat they produce is going to go away.

      You ever see those crazy prices for beef in japan? Triple that and that's what you'll be paying for a steak in 10 years if you don't demand action and you don't start voting for candidates who will actually do something about the water crisis. The same candidates who know how to push your buttons and get you distracted and confused and angry at people who are powerless but who look weird and say stupid things.
      • I'm not sure who you're talking to. I was the parent poster, but I think you're talking to the royal "you"? I'm not American and I'm punching neither up nor down. I'm a curious bystander, wondering what will be done.

        Regardless, I ask this question. If beef becomes astronomically expensive, will America cease to be? Of course not. Beef just won't be as common anymore. No big deal. Won't be the first time a dietary staple came and went. People aren't buying a lot of rabbit these days. I ate steak au poivre t

        • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @08:40AM (#62796537)
          We have the largest military on the planet. And there's a good chance we're going to hand our entire country to a handful of theocratic lunatics who want to touch off what they call the rapture and what you probably call the Apocalypse.

          So it affects you as much if not more.

          If beef becomes astronomically expensive it'll be used as a wedge issue by our right wing extremists to further divide and confuse. Again making things worse and increasing the odds that we invade either your country or some random adjacent country causing your country to be filled with refugees from our stupid wars.

          And the price of chicken will go up to
      • by k6mfw ( 1182893 )
        You definitely know how to write persuasive and direct comments. Yes, desalinization plants are expensive but then we blew trillions in Afghanistan and Iraq with nothing to show for it. And yes some people on society fringes would get water too, but hey new ideas and such come from the fringes. Regarding people protecting their little fiefdoms, reminds me how many govt agencies and my HOA simply can't get anything done because fiefdoms are first priority.
    • guess they should have followed through on their promises to upgrade the irrigation ditches when they increased their allotments last time.
    • For instance, no lawn watering is probably on the immediate horizon. But how do you figure out who's watering their lawn surreptitiously?

      You have water police. They go around and look for the obvious signs someone is watering their lawn when they shouldn't be. Such as having green grass [youtube.com] in the middle of a drought.

      Also, along the same lines, it's possible Las Vegas only has 40 days left of water [krqe.com]. However, they recently had some monsoon-like rain (for their area) which flooded casinos [cbsnews.com], so they might get a f

      • by GoTeam ( 5042081 )
        Where I live, we've had water restrictions for years. Many cities around here added a link in their city apps and websites where citizens can report other citizens who are watering on the wrong day, or watering irresponsibly (over watering or broken sprinkler heads that create lawn geysers). Personally, I chat with neighbors instead of going "East Germany" on them, but I suppose turning neighbors against each other has its advantages as well?
      • by jbengt ( 874751 )

        However, they recently had some monsoon-like rain (for their area) which flooded casinos [cbsnews.com], so they might get a few extra days.

        Thing is, it doesn't take a lot of rain to flood deserts, as dry landscapes don't have much vegetation and such to soak up the rains.
        From your link:

        Planz said 0.58 inch of rain was recorded at the official measuring spot at Harry Reid International Airport, bringing the total to 1.28 inches during the June 15 to Sept. 30 monsoon season.
        "That makes this the wettest monsoon season in ten years," the weather service said . . .

        Even though other areas got more, that's a pretty low amount to think it might have an impact on a drought. Probably what the area needs is a lot of snow in the mountains so snow melt can feed the rivers next spring.

    • I'm sure all those expensive NSA satellites you paid during the war on drugs can spot a green lawn in a sea of brown,
    • But how do you figure out who's watering their lawn surreptitiously?

      You check for outliers in the usage. You check trends to see whose hasn't dropped. You check to see if someone has greener grass than everyone else.

      It's not really hard and plenty of countries have enforced restrictions in the past. We even had an inspector show up at our house in Australia who was quite bemused to see our brown grass, turns out we has broken pipe in a gravel area that had been leaking and we showed up as an outlier.

      In what order to you cut agriculture use? By region? By crop? Perhaps by whomever greases enough palms to go last?

      By crop obviously. That's how everyone does it. I'm not sure why you're ask

  • by iamnotx0r ( 7683968 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @08:51PM (#62795423)
    Are they exempt?

    I know the answer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    Also, whoever mentioned Chinatown has the clue also.
  • by Gavino ( 560149 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @09:07PM (#62795465)
    Maybe they have to look at the goddamn population explosion in these arid regions, and not conduct large-scale farming in deserts. Humans need to be contained to not outgrow the demands of natural resources of the environments in which they/we exist.

    The elites always bang on about "climate change". This focuses everyone's attention away from the fundamental issue - population change. They want their cake and eat it too, which is endlessly growing populations with minimal environmental destruction, but I'm afraid they can't have it. Stabilising and reducing populations will actually solve climate change, as it's mostly demand-side drivers. Our grandparents didn't have to worry about "climate change", chiefly because there were a loss less of them.

    Sure, resource-saving measures and "green" tech will help, but stabilising and probably reducing the population and thus the rampant demands on our fragile environment will hep a hell of a lot more. But you won't hear about that - the global elites don't want you to know.
    • by drhamad ( 868567 )
      Something like 80% of the water is for agriculture, so no, population explosion in the area really isn't the root cause. It's a major problem, of course, but it's not what's really using water.
    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      By "elites", I presume you mean those in Kentucky that were washed out by flooding. Or the farmers in the West complaining they have no feed for their cattle, or the fisherman along the East Coast who are complaining about the fish moving further north to escape the heat and it costs them more to chase them up there.

      "They want their cake and eat it too," What crock, nice straw man you have constructed to fit your world vision.

      • It really comes down to the fact that some people will blame anything but the fact that we've spent over two hundred years pumping GHGs into the atmosphere and now the inevitable thermodynamic effects are hitting home. But somehow they still don't want to believe it, so they bring up population control (as if most of the industrialized world wasn't in a long term demographic decline).

        AGW is not caused by populations, it's caused by GHG emissions. Want to blame any population, blame the population of auto ow

        • ...blame the population of auto owners.

          Actually I thought I read not long back that the contribution of GHG's from auto's is dwarfed by food production.

          Amazingly enough, "cow farts" contributed more than car exhaust.

  • Bizarre (Score:5, Informative)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @09:30PM (#62795515)
    California grows most of the country's almonds. They get a large fraction of their water from the Colorado river, and another large chunk from non-replenishing aquifers. Each pound of almonds requires over 1000 pounds of water. In an area where the water is literally running out right in front of people's eyes.

    And that's just one example. There's plenty more like it. I get it. That region produces a huge chunk of the nations fruits, vegetables and nuts. But it's living on borrowed time. When the water goes away, there's no getting around it.

    I wish people would adapt BEFORE there's a crisis.
    • Goes to growing almonds. That sounds like a lot and it is but it's still only 10%. You could do away with almonds completely and you still have to do something about the drought.

      Almonds are a smokescreen used by megacorporations that don't want to pay the taxes needed to actually solve the water crisis. It's a classic tactic of creating an enemy, in this case the almond growers, for us to focus on rage against and to create a simple narrative that makes it sound like there's a solution that doesn't invo
      • Funny, but didn't California just kill off the plans for desalinization plants because of concern over the brine, despite good plans for how to use the brine for various industrial uses.

        Everything that might help solve problems seems to get killed by Greenies concerned over the environmental impact. It reminds me of the statistic that PETA shelters kill more animals than other shelters because they feel it is more humane.

        • we can solve the brine problem. There are several good solutions. They're pricey. Hence the need for the $60 billion. It's going to have to be done by the gov't because there's no way in hell it's going to be profitable. Worse, if you're in the 1% you're currently buying up all the farmland and water rights you can get your hands on. Bill Gates is basically a feudal lord at this point (look up how much farm land he owns).

          These are solvable problems, but not with the billionaires sucking us dry like 500l
        • Funny, but didn't California just kill off the plans for desalinization plants because of concern over the brine, despite good plans for how to use the brine for various industrial uses.

          ONE.

          One desalination plant was denied by the coastal commission. Several others have been approved -including the one near me that our local water company refuses to build even tho they are being fined by the state for overpumping from the carmel river and the local taxpayers voted to directly subsidize the cost of building the fucking thing... /rant

      • We don't even need to do all that. Simple reform would suffice. Because of that idiotic patchwork of screwball laws dating all the way back to the goddamned treaty of Guadalupe Hildago; and industry (agriculture) that comprises only 2% of our economy has effectively exclusive rights to 80% of the state's water. That is utterly insane.

        So, reform the laws. Eliminate the senior vs junior rights distinction where some users get basically all the water they want for free and have no incentive to use it wisely

    • They get a large fraction of their water from the Colorado river,

      [Citation needed]. Most of the water from the Colorado river goes to Imperial valley and Los Angeles, where they don't grow almonds. The water for the almond growing regions comes from the Sierra Nevadas.

      • So what I'm hearing is that the water for Imperial Valley and LA *could* be drawn from the Sierra Nevada mountains instead of the Colorado if growing almonds was abandoned?
        • Water from the Sierra Nevada is already being drawn down into Los Angeles. That's why you see pictures of Obama in brown fields in Bakersfield [wp.com]: the water was rerouted to LA.

          Los Angeles is right next to the ocean, they could purify the water, and yet they insist on stealing water from the the entire southwest portion of the united states.

    • As a politician the grief and aggravation you get for trying to address medium term problems in ways that upset vocal interest groups makes it almost inevitable that crises like this won't get sorted till it hits HARD. E.g. in this case: you are a state rep, from LA. There's NO benefit for your constituents in progress on this until it BITES. So can we really expect such people to risk their political career on a worthy cause when the farming industry is likely to fund a primary challenger if they do?

      This i

      • It is especially hard when there are so many agitating against the projects that need to happen.

        https://www.latimes.com/busine... [latimes.com]
        https://www.governing.com/now/... [governing.com]

        They rejected the plant:

        The Coastal Commission staff had advised the commission to deny approval — citing, among other factors, the high cost of the water and lack of local demand for it, the risks to marine life and the possibility of flooding in the area as sea levels rise.

        So, there isn't a local need for water? High cost, compared to having none?

        California makes no sense to me, people try to solve the problems, and have to fight tooth and nail to get things built.

    • But... but... I want my Blue Diamond Smokehouse Almonds. Can I give up kale instead?

    • Here's the sad thing, Farmers are moving to almonds and away from crops that require less water. Why? Higher profit margin. With water prices going up, they can't raise prices for things like lettuce, tomatoes because the other options grown else where are cheaper. So they use more water to make almonds which can't as easily be grown else where, so there is a higher demand for them and enough profit to absorb higher water costs.

      To do things the old school republican way, free markets and all, you'd need t

      • If the goal is to reduce water usage, then the free market way is to just tax water usage. Trying to tax specific crops is just overcomplicating things and is likely to lead to workarounds, loop-holes or unintended consequences. Tax the thing you want to solve, not some proxy. That way, if someone starts growing almonds in some new low-water-usage method, good for them.
        • How dare you utter that word. "tax". And, with that, you lost the support of every single republican and most of the moderate democrats. Not to mention every person who feels like they don't make as much money as they would like (aka 99% of them).

          Yes, tax policy would be the most efficient and intelligent way to sort this out. Set an appropriately high tax rate and then let the free market work out the best way of dealing with the scarcity. But, with today's politics, mentioning the word "tax" without
    • I wish people would adapt BEFORE there's a crisis.

      What do you mean before? At this point I'd settle to people adapting 10 years after the crisis, but we're not doing a good job of that either.

    • by jbengt ( 874751 )

      Each pound of almonds requires over 1000 pounds of water.

      Each pound of beef requires 1800 to 2500 pounds of water. [harnrosystems.com]
      The only point is that you can't use all the water you want when it isn't available.

  • This is such a huge problem and not a single state or government has addressed it properly. First the whole Colorado River was divided up based on populations and usage from 100 years ago. Populations have changed since then and the amount of water has been reduced since then. The whole California gets X amount is crazy, make it a percentage based on population not some hard number like it is today. All the states should be cut equally, not just AZ and NV. Then here in AZ you also have some foreign ow
  • by Revek ( 133289 ) on Tuesday August 16, 2022 @09:33PM (#62795525)
    Until they restrict wasteful water intensive farming. Until the last golf course turns brown. Until they wise up and stop wasting it.
    • by G00F ( 241765 )

      They grow well where there is little water because there is lots of sun. And well more rain means less sun.

        They just need more water which people can control more of than getting more sun.

  • STOP WATERING GOLF COURSES! Billions of gallons of water saved. You're welcome.

  • This is why I didn't move to Vegas when the chance presented itself. Just a matter of time till the water supply is completely cut-off.
  • Nevada and Arizona can't make use of the flood water they were slamned with during the past week. Arizona absolutely got creamed with the record flooding in that state.

  • by Inglix the Mad ( 576601 ) on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @08:38AM (#62796533)
    This seems like an issue they need to resolve, and it's likely to crush some states / communities. I agree with others, if you want a golf course in the desert, maybe you'll end up paying for it big time. When water prices start skyrocketing, you'll see people start abandoning the desert and housing prices will crash. The same in Texas when they run out of "free" water due to fracking and waste. Might take another decade, might not, but it's going to suck for people.

    Again: Not to be mean, but you chose to live in a desert. You should've figured out that there was going to be very limited water.

    I chose to live by a freshwater lake, in fact we purchased a couple acres of lakefront property. Color me paranoid, but I'd rather live by freshwater and suffer a little bit of cold rather than have to worry about water. I can dress warmer, even burn wood if the propane runs outs, but I can't make water appear in a desert.
    • I think the problem many regions are facing now is that they may not have ten years. Lake Mead is pretty much going to disappear, and along with it the tenability of places like Los Vegas. At some point a resource becomes so rare that the effective price becomes infinite. If it happens over a couple of decades, it's a manageable withdrawal, if it happens in two or three years, it's basically going to be like the Dust Bowl in the 1930s and people will stick everything that will fit in a car and trailer and h

  • I'm only gonna very lightly touch on the topic since it's a big political ouchie

    "Wealth Distribution" is the poison label they give any time we try to fix things like homeless or hunger. Conversely, we've (humanity) been truly awful with just taking water and putting it where it benefits money & industry; democracy shouldn't let this happen but does - totalitarianism seems to thrive on it.

    It's one hypocrisy that seems to cut a big line between people who can choose one point of view without going i
    • Desalination requires significant energy, and scaling that up to prop up agriculture is a massive undertaking in which cost-benefit analyses have to be done, and it may very well be that at some point economists and engineers are going to decide that it isn't worth the cost. Not only that but there's a rather nasty side effect of desalination, and that's mountains of salt. You can't dump it back into the ocean because it can wipe out marine ecosystems for anything other than some species of cyanobacteria, a

  • by clifwlkr ( 614327 ) on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @09:29AM (#62796733)
    .... and exporting it to China in shipping containers packed tight. I am not kidding. Living in Utah you see absolute complete desert landscapes where they are watering in the middle of the day growing alfalfa. Much of this is packed up and shipped off to China. 80 percent of the water use in Utah is farms. Not farms growing fruit or vegetables, or even really cattle people are going to eat (most is really low grade beef). It is growing alfalfa and shipping it out of state.

    Their solutions at reducing watering lawns and silly things like that is not even going to have a blip of an affect while agriculture uses this vast majority, and industry uses another good chunk. We are literally putting all of our efforts into the smallest percentage of consumer, and doing nothing to the largest. A ten percent drop in person usage will not have a significant impact, while the same in agriculture would be massive.

    Simply enact a law saying you can not ship alfalfa out of the state it was grown in and you will solve our water problems overnight. It won't be quite so profitable anymore...
  • by DewDude ( 537374 ) on Wednesday August 17, 2022 @10:46AM (#62797029) Homepage

    Wow. Some of you people REALLY overlook the root causes for the root causes everyone talks about. I love how the general attitude is "blame Vegas" for all this.

    The reality is they were screwed from the beginning; the very beginning. When they built Hoover the data they had for the river was bad; it was during some of the wettest weather that region had seen in numerous millennium. Not decades, not centuries, millennium. At no point since they built Hoover has the river put out close to the original estimations.

    No, population growth has not helped...but in my opinion they were screwed from the start.

    Places like Vegas get the least amount of water....I don't know why people scream that it's the problem. How? Please explain how a city that gets 4% out of the 50% of the allocation to the lower states (in otherwords, 2% of the river's water) is a problem. The logic does not hold up. Where is the other 48% of the water for the lower states going?

    The reality is Vegas is one of the more water efficient cities out there; and they actually have a net use LESS than their allocation. The new lower allocation is estimated to still be within their net usage.

    But sure...blame people getting a fraction for the problems.

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