Fall On Walk From Bed To Desk Is Workplace Accident, German Court Rules (theguardian.com) 148
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: A German court has ruled that a man who slipped while walking a few meters from his bed to his home office can claim on workplace accident insurance as he was technically commuting. The man was working from home and on his way to his desk one floor below his bedroom, the federal social court, which oversees social security issues, said in its decision. While walking on the spiral staircase connecting the rooms, the unnamed man slipped and broke his back.
The court noted that the employee usually started working in his home office "immediately without having breakfast beforehand," but did not explain why that was relevant to the case. However, later it said that statutory accident insurance was only afforded to the "first" journey to work, suggesting that a trip on the way to get breakfast after already being in the home office could be rejected. The employer's insurance refused to cover the claim. While two lower courts disagreed on whether the short trip was a commute, the higher federal social court said it had found that "the first morning journey from bed to the home office [was] an insured work route." It ruled: "The plaintiff suffered an accident at work when he fell on the way to his home office in the morning."
The German federal court said: "If the insured activity is carried out in the household of the insured person or at another location, insurance cover is provided to the same extent as when the activity is carried out at the company premises." It is not clear if the man was working from home due to the pandemic or had done so previously. The ruling said the law applied to "teleworking positions," which are "computer workstations that are permanently set up by the employer in the private area of the employees."
The court noted that the employee usually started working in his home office "immediately without having breakfast beforehand," but did not explain why that was relevant to the case. However, later it said that statutory accident insurance was only afforded to the "first" journey to work, suggesting that a trip on the way to get breakfast after already being in the home office could be rejected. The employer's insurance refused to cover the claim. While two lower courts disagreed on whether the short trip was a commute, the higher federal social court said it had found that "the first morning journey from bed to the home office [was] an insured work route." It ruled: "The plaintiff suffered an accident at work when he fell on the way to his home office in the morning."
The German federal court said: "If the insured activity is carried out in the household of the insured person or at another location, insurance cover is provided to the same extent as when the activity is carried out at the company premises." It is not clear if the man was working from home due to the pandemic or had done so previously. The ruling said the law applied to "teleworking positions," which are "computer workstations that are permanently set up by the employer in the private area of the employees."
same thing as driving into work / or public transp (Score:4, Informative)
same thing as driving into work / or public transportation it seems in other places in the EU.
Re:same thing as driving into work / or public tra (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess this is a difference in philosophy - I personally don't understand how you can make a party liable for something over which they have zero control. Simply asking someone to be somewhere at a particular time should not confer liability.
And no I don't think "but he wouldn't have been taking that trip if it wasn't for work" is a valid excuse, because there is no distinction between such a trip for work and for any other purpose.
I mean, how on earth could such a policy not be abused and have unintended adverse consequences?
But then again, I have a high personal-responsibility view of life...I wouldn't in my lifetime think "oh man my employer disability insurance should cover me because I slipped going down the stairs in my own house." To be honest I wouldn't even think that if it was the staircase at my place of work unless the stairs were falling apart or covered in hazardous substances.
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Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
Pretty much yes. I have had a whole series of things I have had to sign off about the safety of my home work place since March 2020.
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If it was an outspoken "Home office" situation, then yes. In those situations the employer is still responsible for the workplace, even if it is in your basement and not in the office building. And this includes safety inspections.
If your contract only mentions "mobile work", then safety and everything is your problem.
On the other hand, for mandatory accident insurance this is not as relevant WHERE it happens, but rather WHEN it happened. If you were on the clock or on your direct way to and from your workp
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Similar stuff applies in the US also. Maybe not to such a great extent or in all states, but it's certainly there. If you are required to take travel to do your work then you can be covered for worker's comp if you have an accident while doing the travelling. This is because getting to the job is a part of the job. Now if you have an auto accident, worker's comp will only cover what it normally covers, which is lost pay due to inability to work, but it won't cover auto repair costs because the auto insu
Re:same thing as driving into work / or public tra (Score:5, Interesting)
But then again, I have a high personal-responsibility view of life
What does that matter?
I'm self employed and work for myself. So nobody insures me. So I insured myself against accidents that would cause loss of work, and the inability to earn money. If I trip and fall and break my jaw or hand or leg and can't work for for months, I bought insurance to cover that, so I don't starve and lose the house. If I trip over and am permanently disabled, I have insurance to cover that too. I'm insured under one policy if I break my leg at a client's site or on the way to a client site etc, and another if break my leg mountain biking or skiing and yet another policy kicks in if the accident happens in my car.
So if I have an accident, no matter what, I'm insured, my wages are covered, long term disability is covered, if I get cancer I'm covered, etc etc etc. The only question is which policy it will fall under. My level of "personal responsibility" really has no bearing on the question at all.
In the case of employees; in most civilized countries, the employer bears the burden of paying for insurance against work related injuries. This is because employers are generally significantly responsible for the conditions of employment and the level of risk associated with them, and can often take steps to reduce the risks and lower their premiums.You might counter that the employer has no control over the conditions in your house... but by letting you telework, the employer has pretty much minimized risk. People's homes on average are pretty safe places to be, and eliminating the is a big risk reduction. So sure... the trip from bedroom to computer might still be deadly, but statistically its a pretty damned safe bet.
Should your work policy cover you for that 'commute' ? Perhaps, perhaps not, but if not the work policy, something should! Shouldn't it?
Or do you really wander around life content that if your driving to a ski resort, hit some black ice, wrap your car around a tree and break your back you'll get a settlement that will compensate you something for a lifetime of pain, therapies, lost wages, etc. Plus replace the car. If you slip on black ice carrying some pipe across a job-site... same thing... minus the replacement car. But if you slip walking on black ice on the sidewalk in front of your house while putting up christmas lights... uh... shoot... now you're just fucked, hope your loaded because even the ambulance ride is out of your pocket, never mind everything else that happens at the hospital, and the months of lost wages on top of that... but hey.. "personal responsibility" or something.
That's pretty sad, yet you seem to wear it like a point of pride.
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Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
The reasoning behind this is mostly that car accidents are not in the control of either party, and that employers have more means to get redress from other parties than individuals.
If the employee was found to be negligent then the employee probably has to pay the employer back or gets reduced or no payment. However, its easier for a company to get money from a person than vice versa. Basically, for a company it's an inconvenience, but for a worker it might destroy their lives if they wouldn't get their mon
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
If people in the EU have a better deal than in the US, why moan and cry about it and not just move there instead? I don't get it.
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No party is held liable at all. This is an insurance denial fought in court.
Care to elaborate on this, for those of us who are wholly ignorant on EU-type laws? In the US, we are responsible for our own health care costs. We can "choose" to participate in a health care plan to cover such expenses that would occur when you take a dive down the stairs, or we can choose not to. If we fall down the stairs at work, we can attempt to claim it as a workplace accident. If we are successful with that claim, and the workplace accepts (or is assigned) liability, they pay for the medical ex
Re:same thing as driving into work / or public tra (Score:4, Informative)
The guy paid for insurance which covered accidents on his commute to work. He fell walking between his bedroom and his home office. He claimed that was his commute to work. The case is all about does walking from one room in your house to another count as your commute to work.
Re:same thing as driving into work / or public tra (Score:5, Informative)
The guy paid for insurance which covered accidents on his commute to work.
No he didn't.
The issue before the court was whether his employer's insurance covered the cost of the accident during his commute from bed to desk.
The court ruled that it did.
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
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In the US, we are responsible for our own health care costs. We can "choose" to participate in a health care plan to cover such expenses that would occur when you take a dive down the stairs, or we can choose not to. If we fall down the stairs at work, we can attempt to claim it as a workplace accident. If we are successful with that claim, and the workplace accepts (or is assigned) liability, they pay for the medical expenses.
In our context that's a bit of a nonsensical thing, since for example in my EU country you legally can't *not* have a healthcare insurance, and if you have an accident, that insurance will pay for your treatment expenses regardless of whether it was a workplace thing or not.
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But the worker's compensation here doesn't normally cover health care costs, it covers a percentage of the loss of income from being unable to work. At least that's what it covers for me here in the US. You get your health insurance, or plan, or whatever method to cover healthcare as normal. There are rules in the US also that you be allowed to keep your employer's group health insurance even when you're unable to work (though you end up paying the premiums yourself which are not cheap).
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Not in this part of the US. Here workman's comp pays for the medical care for your work related injuries as well as covering a percentage (70%?) of your loss of income while you are unable to work.
I do not believe that an employer is required to continue to pay of your medical insurance premiums while out on a Workman's Comp injury (unless you are using sick/vacation time), but they can if they choose to.
Aaron Z
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At least that's what it covers for me here in the US. You get your health insurance, or plan, or whatever method to cover healthcare as normal.
Well, that makes sense to me, since that would be similar to my local situation, but it seems to contradict the claim above that "[if] workplace accepts (or is assigned) liability, they pay for the medical expenses".
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If we fall down the stairs at work in the US, we can claim worker's compensation if the company has been paying for that insurance. Most states I believe require having workers comp for companies of a certains size. If you are not covered when you all down the stairs at work, then you're in a state that doesn't protect it's workers and working for an employer who doesn't give a shit about you, so you may as well find a different place to work.
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
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I guess I should have clarified "Liable" to mean financial liability rather than criminal or some other kind of liability. So it is absolutely about the insurance company not wanting to be liable.
So it's definitely not "no party is held liable" - if anyone is paying for it, that's the liable party. Even if it ends up being "every German citizen via public health care."
Re:same thing as driving into work / or public tra (Score:4, Informative)
No party is held liable at all. This is an insurance denial fought in court.
And the insurance company lost, which means the court determined that the employer is liable, and therefore that their insurer has to cover that liability.
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The employer isn't liable. The employer took out insurance to cover its employees commute, as a perk for them and to protect itself from extended periods of sick leave.
The decision is that an insurance policy that covers commuting will cover the walk from his bedroom to his home office. His employer has no liability, although they might expect increased premiums.
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No one is guilty, but someone has to pay for the damage.
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So if you get into an accident driving to work in the EU, it is a workplace accident?
Of course, unless you have some other reason to be driving that way at that time. What else would it be?
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It would seem to me that a "workplace accident" would be an accident that happens *in* the workplace, not out on public property. I am not talking about European law. The law is the law and I am not arguing about how to interpret it. I am just musing about what I think the law *should* be and why.
The employer has control over the workplace, and can make modifications to it to ensure that it is a safe place to work. The employer has no control over the roads, and as such has no ability to ensure anyone's
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The employer has no control over the roads, and as such has no ability to ensure anyone's safety when out on them
And yet, in the EU, at least where I live, a road accident on a business trip is a workplace accident by law. It really doesn't have anything to do with holding the employer responsible. Well, the employer is responsible for example for *reporting* the accident to the labor bureau as a workplace accident, but not necessarily held responsible *for* the accident.
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Yes.
It is not about control or responsibility, at least not the part with commute accidents, but rather a part of the "social contract" as result of the workers movement turn of the last century.
Employer has no control over and isn't responsible for your health either, but is required to pay half of your health insurance. In general, social security costs are split between employer and employee. (Retirement, health, unemployment) Accidents is a bit different as not the costs are split, but the coverage. Emp
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
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Driver's or employer's?
(I suspect it's not an especially meaningful question in much of Europe. In the US, it is. And since the employer's insurance would worker's comp, and rates skyrocket over very few claims, it's an important question.)
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The vehicle insurance may pay initially because they are required, but insurance companies don't want to pay unnecessarily. If they can claim the costs back from the employer or their workplace insurance than they will. This is likely to happen behind the scenes between the insurance providers and probably won't be visible to the actual employee.
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if the vehicle owner's insurance is the one that pays and not the company's insurance or the EU's equivalent to worker's comp, then it's not really a work place accident, is it
I don't see how this would follow. Apparently some people here seem to think that there's *one* insurance that covers everything in an incident like this, whereas at least in my country, if there were for example a work-related car accident, your health insurance would cover your medical treatment costs, your (personal) accident insurance would cover your quality of life loss after an accident (for example temporary disability and such), your comprehensive vehicle accident insurance would cover damage to yo
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Don't take this the wrong way, but are you trolling or just dense? I know I can be super dense some times so please don't take that as hostility.
BTW "don't take as hostility the question whether you're either stupid or malicious" is quite wild.
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Generally workplace accident insurance won't pay out if you were directly negligent in causing injury to yourself. If you were doing something stupid for instance that the company had not instructed you to do, like jumping over office chairs etc.
If you were carrying out your assigned work however and got injured when doing so, thats when the insurance kicks in - especially if the company was negligent by not providing appropriate safety equipment for the work you're doing, left unnecessary/unmarked trip haz
Re:same thing as driving into work / or public tra (Score:4)
If something happens on your way to work, be it in your own car or while walking, crashing with your bicycle, having an accident with your boat, derailment of your train, wrecking of your bus, whatever, it's a work related accident. You are performing a work related duty, that is: going to work. If you stop somewhere and buy a coffee, then the part until you leave the coffee shop, is still private travel. Your way to work starts at the begin of the uninterrupted way to your workplace, which is relevant in this case, as the person in question was getting directly from the bed to the desk without eating breakfast in between.
Completely unrelated to this fact is the fact, that if you have an accident while driving your car, it's a road accident, and your car's insurance gets involved.
Sometimes, both can happen at the same time. You can be on your way to work, and in the same moment being involved in a road accident. Then the work related part (being hurt on your way to work and getting sick leave) is covered by the insurance of your employer. Getting your car fixed is the task of your car's insurance. They have to deal with the insurances of the other people involved in the accident, and sort out damages. Because your employer does not require you to drive your own car to work, but leaves the means of transport completely up to you, anything to do with your car does not concern your employer's insurance.
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
Comprehensive insurance, lol. What do you think we are in the US? Made of money? Average worker here does NOT have comprehensive insurance. Only govt mandated liability insurance minimums.
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"Which insurance pays to fix the car?"
The same one that covers the rest, your bloody clothes, the car repairs, the official accident insurance that every employer has to have.
Such accidents get priority at every doctor and hospital and you don't have to pay a dime of contributions.
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Insurance of whoever caused the accident. Car accidents are easy as there will always be at least one guilty party (*) whose car insurance will have to step in. Workplace insurance is out of the loop then.
(*) often both parties are seen as partly guilty
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
What if the boss sent me a work email to a work provided phone while driving to work? (And the ding notification causes an accident?) Or a work related phone call? Where do we draw the line?
Why was the man at home not making a home owners or health insurance claim?
Re:same thing as driving into work / or public tra (Score:5, Informative)
"So if you get into an accident driving to work in the EU, it is a workplace accident?"
Yes.
Detours for coffee or doughnuts not covered.
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Detours for coffee or doughnuts not covered.
Such detours are probably covered. Insurance companies pushed to define "commuting" quite broadly, basically any journey where the start point or destination is work, regardless of how convoluted it is. The reason being that they charge extra to insure commuting, and don't want people driving to a shop to buy coffee and then walking to work from there, and claiming it's not a commute.
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"Such detours are probably covered."
No. There have been hundreds of lawsuits because of that, they all lost.
Not even to buy groceries or go to a doctor.
You're covered again when you're on the original way home/work again.
Plenty of lawsuits have also been made for defining if you have to take the shortest or the fastest way.
There are no loopholes left anymore, this insurance has been around in Europe (Germany in this case) since 1885.
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Can you maybe cite one of these hundreds of lawsuits?
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Also, if your accident insurance pays for everything, including health resorts and if you're not able to work anymore, you'll get a lifelong pension.
I know it might sound ludicrous to American ears, but that's what it is, a way to keep the workforce of the country healthy.
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Lots of well developed countries do things like that. For example in Japan you can have a free health check once a year, which your employer pays for.
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
What if the coffee and donuts are for everyone at work? What if the boss is paying? What if you are literally a coffee and donuts delivery driver? I can construct a million what ifs that tears any static ruling / static law to shame.
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So if you get into an accident driving to work in the EU, it is a workplace accident?
It depends on the country. There is no single policy for the entire EU. Commuting Accidents in the EU [oshwiki.eu]
In America, commuting is not covered by workman's comp unless the accident has some other connection to your job, such as towing a trailer of tools. Job-related driving during the workday, such as running an errand for your boss, is usually covered. Driving somewhere to eat lunch is generally not covered unless it is a mandatory meeting.
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So if you get into an accident driving to work in the EU, it is a workplace accident?
This is a well know precedent. I'm outside the EU and it applies here.
This is what insurance is for, to mitigate liability so that the employer can claim it as a tax deductible expense.
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:3)
You could have still been driving somewhere else if your weren't working. Also if a fall at home can be deemed a workplace incident that is just inviting your workplace into your home to approve or disapprove some things. Like oh you have stairs, sorry take them out, put in an elevator or you can't work from home. The courts either didn't think this through or more likely this clumsy person who would have fallen anyway didn't think.
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I'm not sure that conclusion is warranted. If I were an insurance company, my first thought would be that WFH accidents are so much less likely that they'll end up paying out a lot less.
Also, all buildings have stairs. I haven't heard of employees being forbidden from using them. A more apt example would be that there couldn't be a tangle of cables running from one side of the room to the other, and that furthermore an electrical extension cord could not run under a carpet. (I would also hesitate to let an
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public t (Score:2)
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Not living in Germany it's hard to understand the scope. But if you weren't driving to work, you would not be seen as commuting. The breakfast thing they would clearly have put on him. In other words they appear to have narrowed the scope of the ruling down to commute, be it from bed to home office, or bed to physical office.
If this was the US, breaking a back would trigger insurance clauses from suffering on the job injuries and special payouts that may result from a lifetime of reduced work capacity. If G
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Re: same thing as driving into work / or public tr (Score:2)
Re: same thing as driving into work / or public t (Score:2)
Does EU have a saftey inspector that comes through your home every night? Cushy!
Not me. (Score:2)
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US courts are generally pro-corporate compared to European.
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"Pro corporate" is just a thought-stopping cliche, especially around here. Considering that this decision gives the employer a legitimate basis for influence over the worker's home furnishings and layout, do you feel more or less free as a result?
Re: Not me. (Score:2)
Fat chance of that happening. As the OP said, no corporation in the EU gets any say in that.
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This has nothing to do with OSHA or whatever. It's about you paying for insurance and expecting that insurers will pay up on a valid claim.
That said, I got a used office chair from work to take home, which is better than what I was using. So you could ask your employer about this, because if you're required to work from home then you should ask for one of the ergonomic chairs from work that are sitting there unused. If you phrase it in the right way that makes it sound like you're a button away from aski
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It's not pro-corporation to say you are responsible for what happens in your own house. If the employer had come in and installed a bunch of equipment and strung cables all over the place creating a tripping hazard, I could see the argument. Otherwise, it's a matter of personal responsibility. The alternative is taking away your privacy and freedom by allowing the employer that will be held accountable to inspect your home and make changes to appease their insurance company.
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That's because in the EU, the commute to work (minus detours for coffee, doughnuts or breakfast) is covered under the worker safety laws. So if you get hurt on your way to your job, the e
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There are cases in the US where the commute *IS* covered by workers comp. If your job is sales, then it can be covered for example. Or times when you are required to travel for business purposes. Sometimes even if you're injured at the gym at the hotel you stay at during a business trip might be covered! Also, if you are "on call", then your trip to work when asked to come in at an unusual time is also covered! Only the regular every day commute is not covered in hte US. Rules also vary state to state.
R
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Now check with your state or country to see if that's allowed or not. Just because an employer says something doesnt mean it's always so. Since we're being required to work from home, then legally your home is now your workplace. Your employer shouldn't even care, because it's not their money, it's your money being deducted from your paycheck that covers workers compensation.
Re: Not me. (Score:2)
unnamed man (Score:3, Funny)
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Germany is so well off that many people there may have a dozen names or more at once! It is the poor German who only has one middle name.
Re: unnamed man (Score:2)
Yep. It prevents a lot of innocents being pilloried in the media before the trial even started, ruining their lives even if freed. This way they get to keep their lives and we don't have to pay huge taxes to pay for all the damages.
US Applicability? (Score:2)
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Note health care is free in Germany (Europe), so it doesn't need to cover medical builds or pay a statuary damages for an unsafe working enviroment. It just means which insurance needs to cover sick days.
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"Note health care is free in Germany (Europe), so it doesn't need to cover medical builds "
Sure it does. Such accidents are covered by the mandatory accident insurance the employer has to offer, the normal health insurance doesn't have to pay anything.
Re: US Applicability? (Score:2)
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Worker's comp in the US doesn't cover healthcare normally, that's a separate plan. Worker's comp covers your loss of pay while unable to work.
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Worker's comp covers injuries at work. That's what it's for.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/... [flickr.com]
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I Predict... (Score:2)
Re:I Predict... (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not going to work. Does walking count? Riding the metro? Train? Bike? Skateboard?
"Riding a vehicle" isn't as prevalent in other parts of the world as it is the default in the US, for instance.
And once you get to "Walking counts", then you're right back at the start with this case.
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In America, you are deemed with grave suspicion if you actually walk anywhere. If the southern States could make it illegal, they would.
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If the southern States could make it illegal, they would.
No need, the weather [occasionally, but with increasing occurrence] makes it unworkable anyway. Hell, while I was living in Austin over 20 years ago, there was a whole month where trying to do that for any measurable distance would probably kill you. A whole bunch of people actually did die of heatstroke, and most of them weren't even walking anywhere.
Re: I Predict... (Score:2)
Re: I Predict... (Score:2)
No this case was a bit borderline but was decided correctly using common sense.
Commuting =/= Work time in California (Score:5, Insightful)
I work in transportation and I'm happy to say that, at least in California, commuting is not considered working time for Worker's Compensation claims. There's no way for the workplace to control the safety of your commute-- so why should they be responsible?
I could only imagine the claims that would happen if it weren't so.
"happy" to say ? (Score:3)
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I will never be able to grasp at why so many US American are so happy to have so few social net and protection as possible.
God is dead. Here comes Facebook and Baby Shark. You don't have a future. Oh by the way your grandparents are still alive to ridicule you about how much better it was "in the good old days" before the coloreds and mexicans took over; and they're living on subsistence payed for by tax dollars for a below-poverty wage job you don't even have yet.
P.S. Mom and Dad are anti-vax and homophobic but their hasn't been much good new music produced since their generation
Have a good life! Trust us, we're TikTok, we ar
Re: "happy" to say ? (Score:2)
"Trust us, we're TikTok"
Uhhh. TikTok is literally ran by the Chinese government. You know that, right?
Re: Commuting =/= Work time in California (Score:2)
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They took out insurance specifically to cover employee's commutes. The insurance company priced it according to their risk models. There is no requirement for employers to cover commutes in most cases, this was just a perk or maybe because they were worried about something like this happening and losing a good employee for months or years while the recovered.
There are some exceptions. At the moment there is a push to get care workers paid for commuting, since they have to visit people in their homes and get
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The obvious thing for the insurance company to do is to pay the claim, then sue the man for creating an unsafe condition in his workplace which caused them to have to pay out. Ultimately it should cost him much more than he gets, because he's at fault. After all, it's his house, and he's in control of it. I sincerely hope that this is how it comes out, even though I think insurance companies are leeches in general. It benefits no one when people game the system in this fashion.
That's a comute? (Score:2)
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No. And this is the actual point of this court ruling.
Most Germans are on their way to breakfast when they step out of bed which of course does not count as commute. So for most persons, commute still starts when they leave their place.
Besides that the crucial point if that guy regularly had breakfast before starting to work at his home office, the impact of this whole thing will be neglectable. This was most likely two insurances fighting who had to pay, which doesn't matter much in the endfor the unnamed
Re: That's a comute? (Score:2)
Accident commuting? Sue the transport company. (Score:2)
The trouble with lawyers is they want to maximize their income, so they always want their clients to sue the richest party. Logically, if he tripped at home, it's his own problem. But there's no money in that. I'm surprised they didn't think of suing Google because they didn't turn his lights on/send a warning about trip hazards/whatever, you make it up ...
Celebrate? (Score:2)
I know a lot of people are laughing and celebrating this "woo I can get worker's comp tripping at home!"...except understand the direct ramifications of this: the case has suggested, logically, that the employer's insurance company can dictate (or implicitly dictate, by raising rates vs risk) things IN YOUR HOME.
That nice rug from grandma? Tripping hazard, get rid of it.
A pet? Could bite: get rid of it.
At the very least, this INVITES corporate insurers to inspect and evaluate your home - do you really wan
Re: even if youre drunk? (Score:2)
Depends if the beer is visible on the company Zoom call or not. :-)