Will a New Gig Worker Exception Proposed in Massachusetts Change the Future of Work? (cnn.com) 136
"Last year, Uber, Lyft, DoorDash and Instacart succeeded in getting Californians to vote in favor of a ballot measure exempting them from classifying drivers and delivery workers as employees," remembers CNN. So after their success with Californian's Proposition 22, "the companies are in the early stages of taking a similar approach in Massachusetts..."
The Coalition to Protect Workers' Rights, an alliance that includes labor advocates and community groups, argued this week that the Massachusetts measure would "permanently create a 'second class' status" for the workers... [T]he proposed Massachusetts ballot initiative presents a minimum earnings guarantee of "120 percent of minimum wage" based on "engaged time," meaning the only time counted is when a driver is fulfilling a ride or delivery request but not the time they spend waiting for a gig. (An analysis from UC Berkeley Labor Center had estimated the pay guarantee under Prop 22 for Uber and Lyft drivers would be equivalent to a wage of $5.64 per hour, instead of $15.60 or 120% of a $13 minimum wage, given such loopholes.) Workers would also receive $0.26 reimbursement per engaged mile to cover vehicle upkeep and gas. (The UC Berkeley Labor Center previously pointed out that Prop 22's $0.30 reimbursement is lower than the IRS' estimated $0.58 per mile cost of owning and operating a vehicle.) While the proposal includes a health care contribution from a company for certain qualifying workers, that too is based on "engaged time" and only a small portion of workers would likely qualify, according to the Coalition to Protect Workers' Rights, due to minimum engaged time requirements...
Some workers could also earn paid sick time, paid family and medical leave, and in lieu of worker's compensation, benefits for medical and disability in cases of on-the-job injuries. Workers would have the ability to appeal if their accounts are deactivated, and would receive training on public safety issues. It would also let gig companies avoid contributions to unemployment or Social Security, and deny app-based workers more robust legal protections around discrimination, including when it comes to compensation.
Lyft, Uber and other members of the coalition, want their proposition included on November 2022 ballots, TechCrunch reports. (Though the question still has to pass a legal review and receive enough signatures from voters.)
But a Boston Globe columnist argues the measure isn't just about gig-working conditions. "It's about the future of work in America." If voters side with the tech giants, the labor landscape will be transformed, immuring a giant and growing body of workers in a world with fewer benefits and protections. And where ride-hailing drivers go, nurses, restaurant workers, executive assistants, programmers, and others will surely follow. The tech giants who rule the world are already dreaming of the day when those workers, too, will be classified as mobile, independent contractors, with fewer benefits and less security than employees. "If they get away with this, every industry is going to line up to ask for an exception," said labor attorney Shannon Liss-Riordan, who has battled the gig companies for years. "And before you know it, the entire fabric of workplace protections will be gone..."
Plenty of people are fine with the fact that that means there will always be a bunch of drivers milling around unpaid and unprotected, waiting for us to summon them. But if blue Massachusetts follows liberal California and approves the formal creation of a second-class workforce, the rest of the country will follow, as will other industries. "This is a question of whether we are going to be a society that recognizes the dignity of work," Liss-Riordan said.
Some workers could also earn paid sick time, paid family and medical leave, and in lieu of worker's compensation, benefits for medical and disability in cases of on-the-job injuries. Workers would have the ability to appeal if their accounts are deactivated, and would receive training on public safety issues. It would also let gig companies avoid contributions to unemployment or Social Security, and deny app-based workers more robust legal protections around discrimination, including when it comes to compensation.
Lyft, Uber and other members of the coalition, want their proposition included on November 2022 ballots, TechCrunch reports. (Though the question still has to pass a legal review and receive enough signatures from voters.)
But a Boston Globe columnist argues the measure isn't just about gig-working conditions. "It's about the future of work in America." If voters side with the tech giants, the labor landscape will be transformed, immuring a giant and growing body of workers in a world with fewer benefits and protections. And where ride-hailing drivers go, nurses, restaurant workers, executive assistants, programmers, and others will surely follow. The tech giants who rule the world are already dreaming of the day when those workers, too, will be classified as mobile, independent contractors, with fewer benefits and less security than employees. "If they get away with this, every industry is going to line up to ask for an exception," said labor attorney Shannon Liss-Riordan, who has battled the gig companies for years. "And before you know it, the entire fabric of workplace protections will be gone..."
Plenty of people are fine with the fact that that means there will always be a bunch of drivers milling around unpaid and unprotected, waiting for us to summon them. But if blue Massachusetts follows liberal California and approves the formal creation of a second-class workforce, the rest of the country will follow, as will other industries. "This is a question of whether we are going to be a society that recognizes the dignity of work," Liss-Riordan said.
Double Speak (Score:5, Insightful)
What I find interesting is the incredible level of double-speak. For instance the commitment of 120% of minimum wage that sounds like a wage increase even though it isn't. Similarly, the health care contribution is worded in a way that almost no one will qualify. It is like the author made a list of worker protections, and then created a list of bullet points that sound like improvements even though they aren't. It makes it very difficult to even know what is being voted for.
Woot! (Score:1)
So, you're saying workers in all those professions will be able to set their own hours, and work as much or as little as they want.
Re:Woot! (Score:4, Informative)
It doesn't matter. All they have to do is adopt the fiction that those people are free to set their time, then basically stop "hiring them" if they don't show up for work whenever they're wanted.
This'll be like all the employers out there who class employees who have to punch a clock as "consultants" and "contractors".
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In the end, it was the lax enforcement of labor law in the 1990â(TM)s that has lead to the gig economy.
Not everyone wants to be an employee (Score:1)
When this came up in the U.K. every Uber driver I spoke with was upset about being forced to become an employee. Not everyone wants to give up the flexibility of being able to choose their own hours of work. Which is what paid time between gigs would result in.
To a lot of people the entire idea of clocking in and out at set times is a concept that belongs in the 20th century
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When this came up in the U.K. every Uber driver I spoke with was upset about being forced to become an employee. Not everyone wants to give up the flexibility of being able to choose their own hours of work. Which is what paid time between gigs would result in.
To a lot of people the entire idea of clocking in and out at set times is a concept that belongs in the 20th century
It's likely that those folks were using Uber for something it is more aligned with. Part time work to supplement a full time job.
Not that I'd ever suggest anyone doing Uber anyhow.
Re:Not everyone wants to be an employee (Score:5, Interesting)
When this came up in the U.K. every Uber driver I spoke with was upset about being forced to become an employee.
When this came up in the UK you were talking to people whose health care was decoupled from their employment. Their situation is really not relevant here.
To a lot of people the entire idea of clocking in and out at set times is a concept that belongs in the 20th century
So is not having national health care, but the American workers we're talking about in this discussion don't have that. We have national health insurance, which does not guarantee care, nor affordability.
Re:Not everyone wants to be an employee (Score:5, Insightful)
BS. Obamacare solved that problem. Right? Oh wait it didn't. At least Obama got a $12 million vacation home out of the deal though.
No amount of magic could have made Romneycare into a good idea. Until we get rid of the insurance companies we'll always have death panels.
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Difference? (Score:1)
As a software developer I'd like to know what are those protections that workers enjoy. Mandatory time off, paid healthcare, can't be fired at will? Oh, wait, that's in Yurop. We don't have anything like that here. I still fail to see what is the difference with a "gig worker"? That they are paid per specific task, not per hour?
Re: Difference? (Score:2)
I do, I live in a shitty middle eastern country and I still get better medicare than most Americans
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Who knew the Taliban had such a great health plan. No wonder everyone's so healthy.
new second class workforce? (Score:4, Interesting)
So does this move waiters and waitresses up or down a tier?
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Waiters and waitresses are not usually "independent contractors". It's mostly scheduled work. If they were paid by the plate of food served. it might apply to them.
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If they were paid by the plate of food served. it might apply to them.
Since the majority of their income is from tips, this is actually true.
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It depends on the restaurant in the USA. McDonald's staff get very few tips, for example.
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To quote you from earlier (emphasis mine):
Waiters and waitresses are not usually "independent contractors"... If they were paid by the plate of food served. it might apply to them.
Last I checked, there aren't any waiters or waitresses at McDonald's, only cooks and cashiers.
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It gets even more surreal at such fast food restaurants. McDonald's calls them "crew team members", as do many other fast food restaurants. I suspect it's partly to avoid the gendered language and some of the legal obligations of the specific job titles.
McDonald's has moved away from individualized service. Have you been in the last year? I've been in the last year because I needed a fast meal with predictable amounts of food. They've migrated in many locations to touchpad based ordering systems, and never
UBI (Score:3)
California Passed Bad Legislation (Score:5, Informative)
AB5 - the Gig Worker Law - was a mess. It affected people whose jobs depended on gig work, like freelance journalists, and the legislature gave special exemptions to favoured industries but not to individuals. And the sponsors of the bill were anything but receptive to amending it.
So it got overturned by a ballot initiative, Prop 22, which is bad in a different way but is now almost impossible to change. It would require a majority of 87.5% to overturn.
A great lesson in what not to do, but I doubt anyone in the Sacramento was paying attention.
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It's actually not overturned. Prop 22 only gave the exemption to drivers and nobody else. Freelance journalists are still screwed.
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True, making the situation even worse.
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Yep. People don't realize just how bad AB5 was for the freelance journalism industry, basically gutting it here in California. I'm sure all the people who were put out of work were so happy for the benefits they'd have gotten if they had a job, which they didn't.
California Legislators brought Prop 22 upon themselves. As you said, it's unlikely to be a lesson they pay any attention to.
OK as long as there's another exception... (Score:3)
I want to be able to hunt Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash execs for sport. But only during times when they exercise authority over their companies.
Gotta love it :) (Score:5, Insightful)
Watching progressive hard left wing tech companies in the most liberal states in the country restrict worker rights. And then the supposedly pro labor voters in this states push these laws through at the ballot box. When itâ(TM)s their money all they care about is cheap regardless of the cost.
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Shouldn't we (Score:2)
be up to ter workers by now?
10^12 rather than 10^9
Words are violence, freedom is slavery (Score:2)
In Newspeak, being free to work, free from government control serving unions, is second class status.
Kibitzers insert rhetorical objections here:
Gonna be hard to blame on republicans (Score:3, Interesting)
CA and MA, those, er, well known bastions of wascally wepubwicans, stripping workers of protections ...
Hard to square, huh? But, urban cool people need their Ubers, so that's that, contradictions be damned ...
I don't understand the need for regulation on this (Score:2)
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The problem is the amount of pay. For IT consulting, it's almost certainly a high enough income to rent an apartment and buy health insurance. An Uber gig does not pay enough for that on a consistent basis. The question then is, how do we get these people health care?
Some on the left want Uber to pay for it. Others like myself want the state to do it. And those on the right seems to have no interest in the question at all.
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I do, which is why I think many of the common benefits full-time jobs provide should simply become a government function. We should have public health care just like every other developed nation out there. We could even have private services on top of that for those who can afford it, but the basics should be provided at minimal cost.
Hey "gig economy" companies! (Score:2)
Please keep running anti-workers rights laws on the ballots! We know these screw people over but given the slave--er-- "worker" market right now you may still have a shot!
Looking into the future though, you might want to look at the tiny little snag effecting the food service industry. Seems these uppity wage slaves think they can make them change the way they do business. Not to worry, Republicans are working hard to force the poor back into subhuman pay and benefits as fast as they can!
'Murika! Land of Fr
California was duped (Score:4, Informative)
Portable benefits (Score:2)
A better system would be to create a central pool from which medical coverage, disability, unemployment and vacation is paid out and which you become eligible for if you work 1800 hrs a year across all employers. You could drive 15 hrs for Uber
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all linked to an employer
And to a political jurisdiction. It used to be that I could buy a policy anywhere in my state and the rates were uniform. After Obamacare, it was sliced up by zip code. You move and your policy can't go with you.
The answer: You have to learn to be loyal to your state and local leaders.
paid out and which you become eligible for if you work 1800 hrs a year across all employers
Why tie that coverage to employment? I'll just increase my contracting rates to cover the premiums and buy my own. With wages you could do the same.
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The government could quite easily subsidize health care coverage for low/no income people. Just take the 1040 taxable income line and if it's below some level, send them a coupon* for health care coverage. You don't need to know whether that income is W-2, investment, business profit or whatever. And you don't need to know or care if I bought a policy or not.
when jobless people show up at the ER just to deny them the preventative care
The ER is possibly the lousiest place to go for preventative care.
*Not cash. Because too much EIC ends up at the weed shop and the kids still go hungr
Feature vs Bug? (Score:1)
AB5 Destroyed Jobs (Score:2)
My company has to have most documents translated into Japanese. So we have in-house translators to do that. But sometimes we need a translation into another language. It doesn't happen often, so we contract it out. AB5 guaranteed that no California translator can get that job. Now the occasional work goes to someone in another state.
My ex is a translator in a less popular language. She made a modest living translating mostly legal and medical documents (her specialties). Right before the covid lockdo
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For all the reasons you listed, translation and interpretation services should have been exempted. However, AB5 changed all that and made her career illegal as an independent contractor. Make sure you are not misreading. AB5 is not ABC. AB5 supersedes ABC.
AB5 = Assembly Bill 5,which came into effect at the beginning of 2020.
Spread the joy (Score:2)
A wrong turn somewhere? (Score:2)
Seems to me this discussion took a wrong turn somewhere. The California law should have been constructed to exempt all would be gig employers. Then, if the job pays too little the poor schlub driving the car should learn trade that pays well. Have you looked at what it costs to have an electrician come and change some wiring in your house, like replace a socket that has aged until it no longer grips plugs reliably? Have you looked at what plumbers are paid? Welders? Maybe you should have paid attention in s
Betteridge's Law of Headlines (Score:2)
The glib dismissals aren't helping either (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm tired of well-to-do entitled people dismissing real problems because they can't see beyond the tip of their nose.
If there's no other work for you, THEN DON'T EAT.
Is that so hard?
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I think the comment was meant to be sarcastic.
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https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
$8 (for part time high schoolers) to $15/hour.
"Lots of jobs don't exist outside the gig industry'.
That's either a flat out lie or you can't read the THOUSANDS of want ads begging for employees in every region of the country.
Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:5, Insightful)
If gig work is so terrible DON'T TAKE THAT JOB.
Is that so hard?
If it wasn't so hard, they'd be taking other jobs. Your privilege and ignorance are showing.
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If gig work is so terrible DON'T TAKE THAT JOB. Is that so hard?
If it wasn't so hard, they'd be taking other jobs. Your privilege and ignorance are showing.
Strangely, Uber and Lyft are having trouble getting drivers. I do not think it is their privilege and ignorance that are showing. I think it is yours.
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Uber and Lyft are having trouble getting drivers.
I think that's called a market signal. At least that's what it's called when rich people get richer.
However, when no one wants to have strangers in their car for low wages, then it's a moral failing.
Fuck you.
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+5 insightful, if I ever saw one
Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:5, Informative)
Who says they are not taking other jobs? Major media outlets have written about them apparently doing exactly that: https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/0... [cnbc.com] https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:4, Informative)
You're conflating one "them" with another.
There are still people choosing to work for Uber. They clearly believe it is the best deal they can get.
Some of those people are probably right. The reason employers are having trouble finding employees is that they don't want to pay a living wage. If people are doing better on unemployment than working for your business, your business is shit.
Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:4, Insightful)
And you are moving the goal posts. People take particular jobs for lots of reasons, and your only evidence that gig workers are being exploited is your own assertion. Where I live, restaurants and lots of other businesses advertise their starting wages, often 50% above the local minimum wage. Is the Massachusetts economy in such terrible straits that they don't have employers similarly competing for workers? Or are gig-work drivers choosing to take much lower pay and benefits for some other reason?
Another reason that people do better on unemployment than working is because unemployment can pay more than the workers produce. When the federal government added $600/week to existing unemployment benefits, that was the equivalent of $15/hour at a full-time job -- more than twice the federal minimum wage, just in one supplement to unemployment benefits.
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And you are moving the goal posts.
You're not understanding the argument. I refuse to be held liable for your lack of reading comprehension or your willingness to imagine things I didn't say.
and your only evidence that gig workers are being exploited is your own assertion
The evidence is embarrassingly available, and if you're not familiar with it then you're willfully ignorant. Learn to internet, noob.
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More evidence and more accuracy, less name calling and fewer fictions, please. You have confused what you think or what you meant with what you wrote, and are being a jerk because I responded to the latter instead of the former.
Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:4, Informative)
Here is a driver who kept track of all his earnings and expenses for a week [businessinsider.com].
Bottom line: He netted $19 per hour.
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That's nothing amazing but still quite a bit above minimum wage. They should probably include some of the longer term expenses in it too since wear and tear does happen more with such a car.
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He made $257 before expenses at the cost of putting 291 miles ($169) on his car, which he ignores by only counting the fuel cost despite having spent $430 on car maintenance that week. So that's a nett of $88 for 13.75 hours work.
Many other numerate people have made the same point: car-based gig work only appears to make sense if you ignore the cost of running the car.
Re: the histrionics aren't helping (Score:2)
Because, of course, he'll spend $480 on car repairs every week he works his gig economy job.
It might be more reasonable to spread that expense over weeks or months, just as he factors car payments/insurance over the entire month, not just the week or day he writes the check.
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Re: the histrionics aren't helping (Score:2)
Why are there any workers under federal minimum wage?
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"Some of those people are probably right. The reason employers are having trouble finding employees is that they don't want to pay a living wage. If people are doing better on unemployment than working for your business, your business is shit."
Strongly agreed. Adding, this isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing happen. Last time was under Bush. (giant sucking sound) and before that, Reagan.
I would add, that if employers don't want wages to be so high, then they'll have to cut prices while maintai
Your links are completely anecdotal (Score:4, Interesting)
Another Factor no one is talking about is that after the 2008 market crash millions of Americans lost middle class jobs and had low mileage cars they had bought with the wages from those middle class jobs. To pay rent and buy groceries those out of work people have been putting miles on their cars for a good 10 years now driving Uber on the weekends or at night after a shift at a lower paying service job that replaced their middle class job. Eventually that was going to catch up with them. Uber doesn't pay enough to cover the maintenance. Effectively Uber tapped into a huge store of capital in the form of these low mileage cars and desperate workers.
The best description of uber I've ever read is that it's a payday loan where the interest is the mileage you put on your car.
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In other words, they aren't qualified for other jobs, which means the guy providing the gig job is doing them a favor to begin with. You're complaining that he's not doing them a big enough of a favor.
Woh's the entitled one here?
Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, they aren't qualified for other jobs, which means the guy providing the gig job is doing them a favor to begin with.
Use once and discard is not a favor.
Woh's the entitled one here?
The shitlords at Uber, and the other shitlords enabling them by voting down protections for workers because they want Uber to be cheap so they want to take advantage of Uber's workers, too.
Any system which does not protect workers is both unsustainable and inhuman.
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Nonsense.
What seems to be missing in all this is WHY people choose gig work. You insist they're being exploited, but considering they're not being COMPELLED to do the jobs would suggest that you think you're smarter than they are at picking what's right for them?
Nobody seems to mention in the OP or since that people work gig jobs because they often feel they can double- and triple-stack gigs and get paid more.
My last Uber, the guy was also delivering food (which didn't bother me in the slightest) but if he
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It's a shitty job, no doubt. But it's one nearly any moron can do.
The stated intent of the minimum wage law was that any full time job would be sufficient to earn a living wage. Now we've forced people into eating a shit sandwich as if they liked it and they're supposed to be grateful? This is not how that works.
Re: the histrionics aren't helping (Score:2)
Politicians want to turn 'side' work into a career, and, possibly unionize them at the same time.
Most DO take Walmart, Amazon for 2X the pay (Score:5, Informative)
> If it wasn't so hard, they'd be taking other jobs.
99% of people DO in fact take other jobs. That's just a fact - most people don't drive for Uber. Because that's not what th y want to do.
People with no particular skills who want to work set hours work for companies like Walmart and Amazon for $11-$20 / hour. (Walmart greeters average $11/hour in Texas, for example).
Uber etc is appropriate for someone who works to work a a couple hours here and there - a student making a few bucks between classes, for example. A lot of people do gig work whole interviewing, when they are between jobs because you can just sign up and start making a little money in a day or two. Enough to keep the lights on while interviewing for long-term jobs. That's what I did - deliveries between interviews, just because work is good for you. Or a stay at home mom who wants to get it and work a couple hours a day makes lunch deliveries.
"They'd be taking other jobs", and they are.
Most everyone takes a regular employment job, when their life situation is such that they want a regular job.
You can't work set hours for Walmart or Amazon (Score:2)
It does make me wonder how long these people are going to put up with this. They're Americans so despite poverty they'r
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The fact is that people DO choose gig work.
Either they think they can work hard enough to beat the curve, they want to work without a boss, flexible hours, or whatever.
You make it sound like gig work is a job of last resort.
Not hardly.
Literally - if you don't like the situation, you can go get a job at any McDonald's in my area and start at $11-13.50-$15 depending on experience whether you'd do closing, etc. Pretty much all you need is a pulse.
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The alternative is usually pizza delivery or manning a mall booth. I had friends who did all, and Uber/Lyft pays by far the highest amounts.
Yes, it is not perfect, but it actually helps fill in gaps in employment. And, in practice a good Uber driver can easily make 2.5x of what taxi drivers do here in California ($100k vs $40k).
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Your ignorance, and that of the people modding you up, is staggering. At every level of this argument I can't even begin to understand the stupidity involved. Uber and Lyft drivers are the dumbest fucking humans alive if they want this.
That 58 cents per mile deduction from the IRS? That's based on operating a fucking tractor trailer. That 58 cents per mile deduction CANNOT be claimed by an employee any more and the benefit of that versus every single thing on offer makes their arguments painfully stupid. Wa
Re: the histrionics aren't helping (Score:3)
The "Gig Economy Jobs" were never intended to be full-time, benefit-providing jobs - they were easy to get, low-wage jobs to help people monotone their idle time and current vehicle.
Then the economy went sideways, and people wanted to make them into "regular" non-Gig jobs, and the politicians soon followed and tried to legislate them into being real jobs.
These are "Gig Economy" jobs, workers are hired after background checks and are expected to use their own car, their own smartphone, to compete for low-pay
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Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:4, Interesting)
If gig work is so terrible DON'T TAKE THAT JOB.
Well, if you are advocating raw capitalism, you'd be free to write a contract with full freedom. That would mean that, for example, sexual favors could be forced, you could waive your protections against physical damage in dangerous jobs, you could work for nothing and not be allowed to quit your job...
So we should agree (at least I hope we do) that some degree of social limitation on the freedom of contracts is needed. The degree of limitation is open to discussion, of course, but the "Don't take the job" position is simply as asinine as pure communism. You write that because you consider some limitations as "given" and not open to discussion, but understand that for other persons, a bigger set of limitation is the "given" one.
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"you'd be free to write a contract with full freedom. That would mean that, for example, sexual favors could be forced,"
That doesn't even slightly make sense.
If you can negotiate with full freedom, yes, they can say "ok I want a blowjob as part of your employment" and you'd be free to say "No, there's no additional compensation that would make that worthwhile" or "ok then another $100k/year".
IF YOU AGREE WITH IT, THAT'S YOUR CHOICE. Duh?
You could waive your protections for dangerous jobs, sure. But again,
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>
Companies across America are begging desperately for employees at all levels of expertise and income. There is no shortage of employment available.
And very certainly the sky will not fall, no matter what the result here.
I've seen "entry level" work advertised at $18.00 an hour in my area. Given a 40 hour week and a week off, that's almost $37.000.00 a year.
Re:the histrionics aren't helping (Score:4, Insightful)
Given a 40 hour week and a week off, that's almost $37.000.00 a year.
Yeah and how many are offering that, and how many want to schedule you for PT hours just under the benefits threshold, which change frequently enough you can't get another job?
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Given a 40 hour week and a week off, that's almost $37.000.00 a year.
Yeah and how many are offering that, and how many want to schedule you for PT hours just under the benefits threshold, which change frequently enough you can't get another job?
Hey - don't let me interfere with your perennial victim narrative.
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And that's a very small amount of money to raise a family on.
Okay - Tell me what the wages should be for working the drive through window at McDonald's and raising say 2 children?
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I think everyone should get paid $100,000 a year because people need to live and it's only fair that they have a nice enough life no matter what job they do. Because McDonalds has lots of money, why can't they just do that? /that's pretty much what I hear in these astonishingly stupid arguments.
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I think everyone should get paid $100,000 a year because people need to live and it's only fair that they have a nice enough life no matter what job they do. Because McDonalds has lots of money, why can't they just do that? /that's pretty much what I hear in these astonishingly stupid arguments.
I think that despite the sordid and bloody history of communism, that there are some young people wanting to give it a try.
Again.
One thing important for all of us to remember is that of hourly workers, only 1.9 percent are being paid minimum wage (or less). If salaried people are taken into account, it's an even smaller percentage of the workforce. I fully support MW being raised to at least 15.00 an hour. But all the brouhaha of the minimum wage argument seems to have a motive far beyond the number o
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(shrug) What's a hundred million dead in the 20th century anyway? They're pretty sure because all their college teachers have told them that Christianity and Capitalism must have killed way more than that.
I don't even object to some people wanting $18/hour or even $25 an hour for menial labor. I'd like to get paid more most of the time, too.
What I object to is that a troubling plurality of the political classes seem to be willing to at least give it lip service in order to secure their own wealth and powe
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(shrug) What's a hundred million dead in the 20th century anyway? They're pretty sure because all their college teachers have told them that Christianity and Capitalism must have killed way more than that.
The joy of whataboutism. Certainly Christianity has a lot of blood on it's hands. Capitalism is a bit harder to quantify.
I don't even object to some people wanting $18/hour or even $25 an hour for menial labor. I'd like to get paid more most of the time, too.
Sure, and a lot of us would like to get paid a lot for not working at all. The Pandemic and the extended unemployment and difficulty getting people to go back to work is symptomatic of that. Apparently the latest thing is for workers to quit en masse and shut places down.
I'm not certain what these people's post walkout plans are, but I'd surely never hire one.
But we have to understand
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The USDA has this data for the cost per child: $284,570 if projected inflation costs are factored in. That is 569,140$ over 17 years just for the kids. That's about 33,478$/yr. I let you figure the rest out. But I believe your argument is that not everyone should get to have kids ? I kinda agree with you. However, western countries have a declining birth rate at a worrying rate. We know professionals don't want babies with work and all the trouble. Then we don't really provide sexual education and preach abstinence (right haha), pretty much make contraception hard to get for poorer people and then wonder why it's them making babies?
While those numbers are interesting, and I know it cost around that much to raise my kid, it can be done for less. obviously. I suspect some of that might be based on government programs as well. But I haven't researched it too much.
Now at the time may wife and I had our one child, I wasn't making as much, and she took a few years off. Later we could afford it. She was in management, I was in research. But there was a plan in effect.
Could it be upset? Sure. I could have been hit by a meteorite, making
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Then maybe...just maybe...wait on having your womb fruit until you can support them?
I know, crazy idea.
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"If gig work is so terrible DON'T TAKE THAT JOB."
What you could have said is something like "If gig work is so terrible, why are so many people doing it? Uber, Lyft, et al would have failed years ago."
People like gig work because it gives them the freedom to work when they want to or have time to. It also gives them the ability to take on a second job without being on a set schedule. Furthermore, it gives people the ability to choose to work when the demand for those services is higher thus resulting in
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There's always prisoners [youtu.be]. They need support too.
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Re:Why do voters want these jobs? (Score:5, Informative)
People need jobs that support them, not gig worker jobs.
Eventually, the question becomes what jobs are designed to allow a person to support themselves, and at what level. It can also be expanded into how many people are they supposed to support. Does that support include say, a wife/husband and 4 children? It isn't an easy answer.
But let's just assume that it's a person flying solo. Husband of a friend of my wife tried to make a go of Uber as a full time thing. By the time he gave up, he pretty much lost money, had a shot vehicle with around 260,000 miles on it. Had a pain in the ass with taxes and it was basically a shitout. He's working at a gas station now, and it ain't much, but it's much better.
There might be money solutions out there, and there are independent contractor jobs that can work for the person.
Uber and it's brethren isn't one of them.
There are plenty of entry level jobs now that will pay better, and cost you less. Uber is a non-starter.
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I have always had the position that UBER is a Math Education Non profit. Only people who cant do math sign up but by the time they drop off they have learnt to do math. Your friend is now better at math than before he signed up for Uber.
I would hope he is getting better at it.. But yeah, once killing your vehicle and the extra maintenance involved it's a losing proposition unless you just do it only a very once in a while - and I talked to the missus after I posted, and... He leased his vehicle.
Well that's enough to give you a gut ache - She's going to find out if he decided to pay the incredible overage, or just buy the worn out car. That has to be almost 200K miles over the allowed milage for the lease.
With his wife being my wife's
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Now that's a gig the applicants would be lined up around the block for!
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You may be correct in theory. But I want to be in the spectator's gallery at your tax court trial.