Samsung Washing Machine App Requires Access To Your Contacts and Location (vice.com) 201
For some reason, Samsung apps designed to control internet-connected washer and dryers require "bogus," "absurd," "unacceptable," "pesky," and "awful" permissions. Motherboard reports: On Wednesday, a Reddit user complained that their washing machine app, the Samsung Smart Washer, wouldn't work "unless I give it access to my contacts, location and camera." This is a common complaint. "When I launch the app, the damned thing wants all sort of permissions: location, phone calls, media, and ... contacts??? The app won't work without these permissions," another Reddit user grumbled last year, referring to another Samsung app -- called Smart Home -- that requires the same seemingly exaggerated permissions. "Why would the Samsung Smart Home app need access to my contacts?" The reviews for these two apps, both of which have more than a million installs according to their stats on the Google Play store, aren't very positive either. The Smart Washer App has an average of 2.1 stars, thanks to a slew of reviews that mention the unnecessary permissions.
These situations speak to two issues: Apps that demand permissions that they don't need, and "smart" and internet of things devices that make formerly simple tasks very complicated, and open up potential privacy and security concerns. [...] It's unclear why apps that are designed to let you set the type of washing cycle you want, or see how long it's gonna take for the dryer to be done, would need access to your phone's contacts. In an FAQ for another Samsung app, the company says it needs access to contacts "to check if you already have a Samsung account set up in your device. Knowing this information helps mySamsung to make the sign-in process seamless." The report recommends using a newer app called SmartThings App, "which has less invasive permission requirements compared to the older apps." The SmartThings app doesn't list any required permissions, indicating that "you can use the app without optional permissions, but some functions may be limited."
These situations speak to two issues: Apps that demand permissions that they don't need, and "smart" and internet of things devices that make formerly simple tasks very complicated, and open up potential privacy and security concerns. [...] It's unclear why apps that are designed to let you set the type of washing cycle you want, or see how long it's gonna take for the dryer to be done, would need access to your phone's contacts. In an FAQ for another Samsung app, the company says it needs access to contacts "to check if you already have a Samsung account set up in your device. Knowing this information helps mySamsung to make the sign-in process seamless." The report recommends using a newer app called SmartThings App, "which has less invasive permission requirements compared to the older apps." The SmartThings app doesn't list any required permissions, indicating that "you can use the app without optional permissions, but some functions may be limited."
Solution seems simple enough (Score:5, Informative)
Add them to your boycott list if need be, and spread the word.
Job done.
Re:Solution seems simple enough (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Google could fix this problem in Android once and for all, quite easily. When the user is presented with a dialog to request access to contacts, camera, etc, instead of just "deny" and "allow" there could be a "fake" button. The app would think it had access to your contacts so it would no longer refuse to run, but in reality those would be totally fake random names (and every app would get a different random list so they can't fingerprint your device based on that list either). Same for camera, just give t
Re: (Score:2)
Then apps would start having to charge since the data gotten would be worthless.
Maybe allow for that if you purchase the app?
Re:Solution seems simple enough (Score:4, Informative)
Don't buy any Samsung appliances. They make good phones but their whiteware sucks!
We had two Samsung washing machines -- the first one was recalled because that model set a number of houses on fire and the second one also suffered an electrical meltdown that nearly burned our house down.
After that we bought a Bosch and it's performed flawlessly, using less power, less water and with a much shorter wash-cycle than the minimum 95 minutes of the Samsung.
A good number of people here in NZ have also had their Samsung fridges returned as "lemons" after the doors rusted out and were replaced multiple times under warranty.
Samsung is Korean for "All our stuff sucks except maybe for our phones" :-)
Re:Solution seems simple enough (Score:4, Interesting)
Their microwave ovens are built like tanks and their phones are pretty good, but the rest of their stuff is questionable.
Re:Solution seems simple enough (Score:4, Informative)
I got a Phillips microwave for my 21st birthday.
I retire next Friday, and I'm still using that microwave (though the door is a tad hard to open now, it still seals).
Re: (Score:2)
Your current age would add a lot of context to your story
Re: (Score:2)
I have a Samsung microwave, and while I haven't shot any artillery at it, I haven't had any structural problems. But the cooking sensors did crap out about a year after I bought it. The unit still works as a microwave (using the standard timer). But I should have been alerted to potential for problems with that model when Best Buy wanted $100 for their protection plan on a $200 microwave (it was on sale IIRC). An insurance plan costing that significant a portion of the price tells me that something is l
Re: Solution seems simple enough (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Samsung's wretched appliances (Score:3)
I won't be buying Samsung again.
Same problem with the ice maker on the insanely expensive refrigerator (hey, my wife wanted the four door . . .). I've tried everything short of emptying the refrigerator to force it to completely defrost.
And as for the dryer . . . the top of the line below the wireless ones . . . after a few years, it started grinding--there was a crack in the drum, making it out of round.
The *stainless steel* drum.
And when we ordered a replacement from the only place in the US that suppose
Re: Solution seems simple enough (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or don't make them use the network.
Re:Solution seems simple enough (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't add it to your boycott list.
Add it to your "don't buy list because it's going to stop working in two years"-list
I take the latter list much more seriously.
Re: (Score:2)
Boycott means you don't buy their stuff.
Re: (Score:3)
If you got one you should return it. State the reason as the app being spyware. Samsung will fix it if they end up with a load of used washing machines on their hands.
Re: Solution seems simple enough (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah, now the need for the contract list becomes clear...
Re: (Score:3)
I already wouldn't since everything Samsung makes is flammable [7news.com.au] :D
Seriously though, is it just me or is Samsung way more likely than other companies to produce a house fire?
Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would anyone want to own a washer/dryer connected to the internet? WHY?
Are smart clothings only compatible with smart washers?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If you were a smart emperor with new clothes you'd know that only a smart washing machine would be able to see them and therefore be able to wash them.
Re: (Score:2)
JIt [investopedia.com]* coming to a home near you.
*Don't laugh too hard. Some things aren't fiction [brother-usa.com].
Re:Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:5, Interesting)
Only things I could think of: An alert when it's done. (My "dumb" washer/dryer have variable cycle times, so you don't really know when it's done.) And possibly the ability to hit the "de-wrinkle" button remotely. Then there are some machines with automated detergent (etc.) dispensers, being able to monitor/alert on the levels of those could be handy. None of those would be what I'd consider a "mission critical" thing, as the 50-foot walk to my laundry room would accomplish those things just as easily. But I can see where the laziest amongst us would find such things useful.
Point at hand, why the app needs access to anything at all is patently stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
Point at hand, why the app needs access to anything at all is patently stupid.
Because you need to have the permission required to perform that action that requires said permission. You can't do the things locked behind permissions, without said permissions.
Re: (Score:3)
I know how long a wash cycle takes but it's not something I track. As in, set it going and come back in a hour or whenever. Do anyone really need live alerts on their washing machine cycle?
I mean, if you do, then go for it; it just seems kind of silly to me.
Re: (Score:2)
I would actually like this kind of feature if it wasn't internet stuff but fully local. I often set the machine and forget about it while doing something else, only remembering about it hours after its done. It would be nice to get notification on my phone when its done, so I could empty it soon and hang the clothes in proper place instead of leaving them crumpled inside for hours.
Re:Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:4, Insightful)
Your phone almost certainly has an alarm function, which you can set to go off in (for my Samsumg front loader - with no internet connectivity) 1 hour and 16 minutes to remind you to hang out your washing (yes, my clothes are dried via nuclear fusion).
So, the smart phone solution already exists - and it isn't intrusive spyware.
Re: (Score:2)
My drier and washing machine both have a button you can press to make them beep loudly when done. It only works of course if you're close enough to hear but then again, if you're not then you're not close enough to change over the load so it's a self-limiting problem.
yes, my clothes are dried via nuclear fusion
Someone installed a hydrous anti-fusion defence here.
Re: (Score:2)
Most machines already have a delay start feature.
They also tend to come with instruction manuals explaining the functions, the manuals are usually available in multiple languages - most of the large brands are sold worldwide so they have localised versions of the manuals for every country in which they're sold. If yours only came with the local manual in your local language you will probably be able to find the chinese version online.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah I'd rather have an app than go looking for the manual. Ideally I'd set up a few favourite wash settings for different loads. Could all be done on the machine but it would be a crappy little screen with custom UI.
There is no reason why this can't be done securely, wifi and local network only, no permissions needed. Could even be NFC only, select the program and bring your phone need the machine like a contactless payment. I think LG do that, some of their models have NFC. It sets up a timer too so your
Re: Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:2)
Mine has a buzzer that sounds when itâ(TM)s done. Amazing!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Why do people even have washers and dryers when they can just do it by hand?
Why do you all even waste your time washing clothes? I just wear mine for a few days or so, throw them out, and buy new ones. I'm saving a ton of money on washing machines and detergent.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If you buy the cheapest of third world sweatshop manufactured clothes it can actually be economical to do that. Especially given that the clothes are generally of low quality and might not even survive multiple cycles of wearing and washing.
Re: (Score:2)
> Why do you all even waste your time washing clothes? I just wear mine for a few days or so, throw them out, and buy new ones.
Jack Reacher, is that you?
Re: Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:2)
they can just do it by hand Why install light fittings in areas where an oil lantern will do? Why live in a house when a cave would be more economical, environmentally friendly and, too you, more sensible?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:4)
Bingo.
As someone who managed to survive for 60+ years without an internet-enabled washing machine, I feel the same way.
Why would I want my washing machine connected to the net? What benefits would that supposedly that bring me?
Honestly, I don't get it. Maybe someone here can enlighten me.
Re:Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:4, Insightful)
What benefits would that supposedly that bring me?
Uh... blockchain?
Re:Internet-connected....washer/dryer??? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why would anyone want to own a washer/dryer connected to the internet? WHY? Are smart clothings only compatible with smart washers?
Consumers don't. Samsung does for repairs. It saves them a significant amount of money to only have to send a technician on a single trip vs. multiple trips if the diagnosis is already uploaded to Samsung.
The "Smart Home" branding is an excellent job by marketing to hide that fact.
Re: (Score:3)
My washer has a diagnostic button. You press it and it emits a bunch of audio squaks. If you are on the phone with tech support you just hold the phone up to the machine and push the button. They can decode it on their end. No need for a consumer unit with no maintenance contract to be online 24/7.
Dumb Appliances are better. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dumb Appliances are better. (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously, that would have all sorts of security risks.
Really, the spin cycle will go like an Iranian centrifuge
Re: (Score:2)
I don't want smart appliances. I want dumb appliances that don't connect to the internet of things. I see no reason why my washer, dryer, refrigerator/freezer, etc. needs to be connected to the internet. Obviously, that would have all sorts of security risks. I will confine those risks to my computers and cell phones.
I'd rather not even have a digital washer and dryer. Knobs have worked pretty well for me on the 30+ year old washer and dryer I still have.
Re: (Score:3)
Knobs have worked pretty well for me on the 30+ year old washer and dryer I still have.
There's the problem- you're supposed to have to buy a new pair every 8 or 10 years.
It's a result of the "Motorola Effect". Way back when, Motorola made TV sets and they were hands-down some of the best TV sets you could buy. All the transistors and chips were in sockets and it was all built really well. They were the best.
Problem was, they lasted a long time and were dead simple to fix, so people kept them forever and didn't go out and buy another new Motorola TV.
Motorola basically put themselves out of the
Re: (Score:2)
Our washer has additional features that some might say are unnecessary like pre-wash, steam, extra rinse, r
Re: (Score:2)
A bluetooth chip can be even cheaper than a real control panel and buttons though. I can easily see how some lower-cost appliances might boast about 'remote smart technology' to hide the fact that if you have the appliance controlled by app, you don't need to cover the parts cost of a screen and actual controls.
Re:Dumb Appliances are better. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd rather not even have a digital washer and dryer. Knobs have worked pretty well for me on the 30+ year old washer and dryer I still have.
The problem is that knobs alone don't control an old washer. The knobs are attached to a mechanical "computer" that includes a timing motor, lots of complex cams, and a whole bunch of electrical contacts. My previous washer was fully mechanical, and its sequencing unit decided to die after only about 12 years of use. (Of course it was at the worst possible point in the wash cycle, just after it had filled the tub with soapy water. It took a couple of hours to bale all the water, then manually rinse and wring out all the clothes.) At least I got an interesting review of old tech when I took the control unit apart to see if it could possibly be fixed, which wasn't the case. And of course, ordering a new control unit would have cost half the price of a whole new washer.
The electronically-controlled washer I replaced it with has the advantage of being much more efficient. Its computer uses the motor to spin the drum back and forth at the beginning of the cycle to weigh the load so it can feed in exactly as much water as needed. The computerized balance monitoring also allows it to do a much higher speed spin cycle, which saves significant energy costs for drying the clothes. (And it will try all sorts of rebalancing maneuvers before it gives up on an unbalanced load, whereas the old washer would just obliviously shake itself across the laundry room.)
Re: (Score:2)
Security Risk (Score:2)
Well, as to the security risk of smart devices, there are solutions other than avoiding the devices. You need to plan your network so that they are firewalled from anything you care about. A crude solution would be to get a separate access point, and have them all use that instead of your regular one. A cleaner solution is to have a smarter access point that blocks any packets to local networks from devices on a given SSID. This is a very nice feature built in to Ubiquiti access points. Just have a sep
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Can anyone articulate the benefit of a network-connected washer and dryer?
Re:Security Risk (Score:4, Interesting)
If you're using any smart devices, and you don't want to trust them, then, yes, you need a fancy network to isolate them.
Hopefully one of the consumer brands like TP-Link will add this as a feature, so you can easily set up a restricted network just like you can a guest network.
Re: (Score:2)
Can anyone articulate the benefit of a network-connected washer and dryer?
No.
Even Samsung can't come up with anything remotely plausible.
Re: (Score:2)
But in terms of having a network connected washer or dryer, here's one plausible use...
Your washer and/or drier includes a set of shock absorbers and mounting bushes, so that the drum [which is often a combination of the wash chamber and a piece of cast concrete, added to intentionally give the drum inertia] has at least partial vibration-damping from the rest of your home. The shock absorbers in particular will wear out
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Vice article even explains what the different permissions are for.
The Vice article also says the best way to deal with all of this is to use the washer the old fashioned way -- without a phone at all.
Re: Security Risk (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Security Risk (Score:5, Interesting)
Last night, between 21:01:27 [when I turned the TV on] and 23:00:16 [when I turned it off] the TV made 330 DNS calls to URLs blocked by PiHole's default filters, including:-
tvx.adgrx.com
sas.samsungcloudsolution.com
device-metrics-us-2.amazon.com
lcprd1.samsungcloudsolution.net
apu.samsungelectronics.com
fls-eu.amazon.com
cpu.samsungelectronics.com
ypu.samsungelectronics.com
dpu.samsungelectronics.com
fls-na.amazon.com
log-config.samsungacr.com
gpm.samsungqbe.com
config.samsungads.com
Oh, and it might be worth pointing out that according to the applets themselves, I had no *active* Amazon code running on the TV at any time (i.e. no Amazon Prime client), even though the TV attempts to connect to 3 Amazon domain URLs.
jobslave is entirely right to point out the security risk of having unknown devices operating on your network unless you know exactly what they are doing... But if you're reasonably confident of your technical skills and if you have the funds, time an inclination to set up things like a DNS sink and a packet-filtering firewall, then you can probably run these sorts of devices reasonably safely.
Re: (Score:3)
I disregard this and turn my TV off at the wall when I am not actually watching it, because I discovered thanks to PiHole that even when I thought it was off, my TV was merrily chatting to Samsung and sending them lots of network
Re: Security Risk (Score:5, Interesting)
It's actually important to leave OLED TVs in standby now and then. When in standby mode they recalibrate the screen.
OLED pixels degrade at different rates (naturally or due to burn-in) and the TV compensates for that by periodically measuring the current through them and adjusting the calibration values. It really works too, recent tests have shown that modern OLEDs look great even after years of 20h/day usage and burn-in is only an issue in the most extreme cases.
Re: Security Risk (Score:2)
Re:Dumb Appliances are better. (Score:4, Funny)
I don't want smart appliances. I want dumb appliances that don't connect to the internet of things.
Increasingly, what we want is irrelevant. Between the manufacturers shoving this shit down our throats so they can cash in on that sweet, sweet personal data, and the clueless folks we all know who keep bending over and asking for more, soon the only other choice may be washing your clothes by hand in the bathtub. Until, that is, the age of "smart bathroom fixtures" comes crashing down on us. Just imagine your toilet making an appointment for you with your proctologist to have those 'rhoids looked at before telling Alexa to order a case of toilet paper.
I'm joking now, but it may not be very funny in 10 or 15 years.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed.
Smart appliances have made for dumb users.
Eventually they will get hacked and maybe realize that being connected to the internet was stupid. The operative word being "maybe."
Rear-View Mirror. (Score:2)
Demands, not requires. (Score:2)
This thing demands access to contacts, it doesn't really 'require' it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And why, pray tell, would I want my washer to send notifications to my contacts?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You clearly don't, but there are a few billion other people out there and some might. The obvious reason is so they know the laundry is done.
I'm pretty confident that nobody in my contacts list cares when my laundry is done.
Re: (Score:2)
And why does it need your contact list for that?
Most people are only going to want to send a notification to themselves. And even without contact list access, theres no reason it can't prompt you to enter contact information manually for anyone you want to send notifications to.
Fake Permissions (Score:5, Interesting)
What is really needed is fake permissions. The world would be a better place if Android and Apple let you tell apps that you've given them access to your location and contacts, but they get fake data instead of real data (or even a subset of your real data).
Re: (Score:2)
There were versions of android with this... 8 years ago? 10? Something like that.
Re: (Score:2)
No there were "hacked" versions of Android with this 8-10 years ago. This used to be possible if you rooted your phone.
Re: (Score:2)
Ironically, Samsung phones actually have features to support fake location providers, and fake contacts.
Re: (Score:2)
More simple than that: We need fine grained permissions. You shouldn't need access to location and phone contacts only to autologin with an existing Samsung account on a phone. Why are phone accounts and contacts part of the same permission group?
Re:Fake Permissions (Score:5, Interesting)
Android supports that.
Check out the open source app Shelter. It allows you to use a feature of Android designed for separating work and personal stuff to isolate apps. An isolated app will find your contacts list empty, for example.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Good point. It would be nice if they could have tighter permissions, like "location: nearby bluetooth networks only." That would help a lot for users trusting apps.
Re: Fake Permissions (Score:2)
And I can imagine the app needing camera permissions to scan a QR code with Mac address, GUID or password from the appliance. One "smart device" app I had required all sorts of permissions, including microphone permission, because to get the appliance to connect to WiFi, it transferred settings from phone to appliance using sound.
Re: (Score:3)
What notifications would a washing machine send to my CONTACTS and not to me?
Hey, contact1! sconeu just ran a load of underwear through the washer!!!
Re: (Score:2)
O rly? (Score:2)
Jesus Christ on a Segway rolling around on the deck of a cruise ship, why does anyone need an app to wash clothes when washing machines have just a couple simple dials and....
Forget it. Enjoy being reamed.
Re: (Score:2)
Ban all Samsung apps (Score:2)
Google should take pro-active step and declare that apps that require mandatory permossion which goes beyond the core operation be banned and also give 30 day notice to the company to fix or ban all the apps from the store. Remember, Play Store is not much different than Walmart for Android apps. Walmart will force Samsung to fix the defect or pay for it if the customers complaint and Google should do the same.
Separate Accounts for Separate Purposes (Score:2)
Everybody ought to have a few "junk" email accounts. Many of them are free, even on different services; mail.com, outlook.com, for example. Use one of these "junk" accounts when you're afraid of spammy behavior. And if you set up those junk accounts on different BROWSERS, they mostly can't see each other.
If you buy a Samsung washing machine (and why would you? I had a top-of-the-line Samsung washer for a few years, and it was a piece of crap), give it the credentials of one of your junk accounts.
Samsung Level U headset wants GPS (Score:2)
The android app, which just lets you rename the device and check battery status needs location access.
Ridiculous.
More to the point ... (Score:3)
It's unclear why apps that are designed to let you set the type of washing cycle you want, or see how long it's gonna take for the dryer to be done, would need access to your phone's contacts.
It's unclear why one needs an app when all that can be done on the machines themselves. Just sayin' ...
Surveillance Marketed As Revolutionary Technology (Score:4, Insightful)
Anything with "smart" in the title is guaranteed to be designed primarily to spy on you.
Why do we stick software everywhere? (Score:3, Interesting)
As a (somewhat competent) pro coder I'm always baffled the devices in which we stick software. Lightbulbs, switches, powertools, Coffee makers. Washing machines?! I'm dreading the day deodorant spray cans will have software in them - why not? There are uCs out there that cost like less than a dime (in bulk) and batteries are already stupid cheap, if they don't find another method to power them from the product sold itself.
Mark my words, software will be a major factor in the downfall of civilization. Coders suck.
There's nothing you can do but die (Score:2)
Where's the source? (Score:3, Insightful)
Fork it!
Oh, right. Because you were all worried about how Stallman dressed or spoke you forgot that he was warning you this would happen.
Assholes.
unclear? (Score:3)
>"It's unclear why apps that are designed to let you set the type of washing [] would need access to your phone's contacts."
It isn't that much of a mystery- usually it is just because they want that data. When they do tell you the reasons, they are often nonsense like "to better improve the product" or "for warranty registration". We know the reasons, it is usually marketing, but sometimes it is just poor/lazy programming.
The solution is, if you bought it and wanted to use the app, call tech support and complain and demand a solution. If they don't offer a solution, return the product, make sure to send a letter/Email to the manufacturer AND retailer why you did it, post a bad review, and tell those you know about it.
If you don't care about the app and want to use it without the app, make similar complaints and reviews without returning it.
If you didn't buy it in the first place because of the above, then send negative feedback letting the manufacturer know they lost a sale because of it, and post information about your experience so other consumers know. If you bought a different model, post why you did in feedback and name the offending product you rejected.
Consumers have a LOT of power, but it doesn't matter if it is not exercised. Reviews and word-of-mouth really are extremely effective. And most companies are very sensitive about negative feedback that will hurt sales.
Thereâ(TM)s already a way to set the washing (Score:2)
Itâ(TM)s called the dial on the front. Iâ(TM)ll never buy one of these IOT smart appliances until they drag me kicking and screaming. Until then Iâ(TM)ll fix the ones I have.
Brand recommendations? (Score:2)
Who's making appliances these days without built-in computers?
And I mean just mechanical timers, not special-purpose $350 control modules with IC's designed in the 80's.
IoT (Score:2)