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Businesses Government The Almighty Buck

India Offers $1 Billion In Cash To Each Chipmaker Who 'Makes In India' (reuters.com) 48

Posted by BeauHD from the money-as-an-incentive dept.
According to Reuters, India is offering more than $1 billion in cash to each semiconductor company that sets up manufacturing units in the country as it seeks to build on its smartphone assembly industry and strengthen its electronics supply chain. From the report: Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make in India" drive has helped to turn India into the world's second-biggest mobile manufacturer after China. New Delhi believes it is time for chip companies to set up in the country. "The government will give cash incentives of more than $1 billion to each company which will set up chip fabrication units," a senior government official told Reuters, declining to be named as he was not authorised to speak with media. "We're assuring them that the government will be a buyer and there will also be mandates in the private market (for companies to buy locally made chips)."

How to disburse the cash incentives has yet to be decided and the government has asked the industry for feedback. India also wants to establish reliable suppliers for its electronics and telecom industry to cut dependence on China following border skirmishes last year. Chips made locally will be designated as "trusted sources" and can be used in products ranging from CCTV cameras to 5G equipment.
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India Offers $1 Billion In Cash To Each Chipmaker Who 'Makes In India' More

India Offers $1 Billion In Cash To Each Chipmaker Who 'Makes In India'

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  • I can't even imagine it.

  • 1 Billion Rupees is roughly 13.6 Million USD.

    • The article (and summary) says "$1 billion", which presumably means USD 1 billion.

      But it's possible that the senior government official who is not authorized to speak with media is not authorized for good reason (like maybe because they don't know what they're talking about). I suppose that we shall see, eventually.

      • Re:Not much (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @07:01PM (#61222728)

        The source is Reuters, which is unlikely to mix up dollars and rupees, and also unlikely to base a story on an unreliable source.

        India should rely less on handouts and focus more on streamlining bureaucracy, reducing corruption, and improving infrastructure. Semiconductor fabs need clean water and reliable electricity.

        • Well Reuters should learn to qualify the currency, considering there are several currencies called dollar.

          • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

            by youngone ( 975102 )
            They're quite obviously talking about the Fijian Dollar.

          • Well Reuters should learn to qualify the currency, considering there are several currencies called dollar.

            Nope. There's only one currency called dollar when talking about international handouts to companies when the local currency isn't called the "dollar" and that's the USA dollar.

            Kind of like how when we say American, everyone knows we are talking about people of the United States of America, and not people on the continent of North or South America.

            In international news if a dollar *OTHER* than the USD is used, then it is specifically mentioned.

            • Irrelevant, its about treating everyone as equals. Same as the how the news mentions american states when identifying a place. Take Ca, is it california or canada ? Or WA is it washington or Western Australia ?

              • Irrelevant, its about treating everyone as equals.

                They are treating everyone as equals. In terms if international exchange the USD is the reserve currency. International exchange is the key here and that context matters. You're under some delusion that there are other currencies equal to the USD in this regard. When another dollar becomes relevant maybe it'll get some airtime.

                Same as the how the news mentions american states when identifying a place. Take Ca, is it california or canada ? Or WA is it washington or Western Australia ?

                Is it an American paper, or a story about the USA? Context matters. Without context the english language is entirely worthless.

                If these terms are confusing to you or you don't instant

                • > They are treating everyone as equals.
                  No equality means apply the same rules in this case naming to everyone.

                  > In terms if international exchange the USD is the reserve currency. International exchange is the key here and that context matters. You're under some delusion that there are other currencies equal to the USD in this regard. When another dollar becomes relevant maybe it'll get some airtime.
                  That may be true, but you just admitted an exception. Equality is about the being same for every
                • > Is it an American paper, or a story about the USA? Context matters. Without context the english language is entirely worthless.
                  From google
                  -> Reuters.com brings you the latest news from around the world, covering breaking news in markets, business, politics, entertainment, technology, video and ...
                • > If these terms are confusing to you or you don't instantly know exactly what is being talked about I would highly recommend getting checked for autism. Missing contextual clues in language is a pretty strong indicator.

                  Your arrogance and the fact that R label themselves as international shows you dont know what you aare talking about when you mention context and audience.
    • Indians dont use billions when referring to rupees, they have their own like crore and something else i cant remember.
      • You are correct, India uses lakhs (also spelled lacs or even laks) for 100,000 and crore for 10,000,000.

        But billion and trillion are gaining, warning, pun ahead, currency, there. Their budget has gone beyond lakhs of crores in rupees and it is getting difficult to mention these numbers easily.

      • lakh: 10^6, core: 10^8 exponential here to avoid brain-pain placement of commas. Maybe other units like mallards and billiards are also used.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by kcelery ( 410487 )

      13.6mil isn't quite enough for the dust free equipments.

  • Nope. (Score:3)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @06:35PM (#61222658)

    India has limited access to water which is absolutely critical for making chips with modern processes. There is also a serious air pollution problem which cannot be ignored. Beyond that, there is a lack of talent in the area as well as a lack of desire for people to move to India.

    Sorry India but you're not luring anyone serious.

    • Water is the least of their problems. The power grid is a shambles and earthquakes are a big problem.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ghoul ( 157158 )
        The Southern peninsula is pretty stable earthquake wise and its not like Oregon or Taiwan dont have earthquakes. Physical stuff is not what prevent fabs from being built. Its just that Fabs are uneconomic without govt subsidies and they also need specialized engineering talent which you dont have if you dont have fabs (chicken and egg )

    • India has limited access to water which is absolutely critical for making chips with modern processes.

      Depends where you are in India. That's like saying that the United States has limited access to water, because Phoenix is drawing down its water table.
      https://external-preview.redd.... [external-preview.redd.it]

      • India building its own fabs is also the sound of the other shoe dropping. The first was China deciding to cut itself free from dependence on the US due to Trump's trade policies, the second one is India doing the same thing. Their main worry may be China at the moment, but the fact that the US could do to them what it did to China will also be a big concern.

        And that's the killer, short-term China and India will hurt as they go through the stress and cost of coming up to speed, but once those manufacturin

    • when you don't care if your population has it to drink. Intel is building 2 fabs in the American Southwest for f***'s sake.

    • I'm not a chip guy, but have peeked at stuff a little.

      Could ocean water work? Or are we talking crystal clear, pure stuff? How expensive is a 100% or large percentage recycling system? I'd be surprised if you could dump nasty waste water in Taiwan (TSMC) or Oregon (Intel), so I'd hope a lot of the output could be reused.

      Also it seems like the southern tip is pretty clear air wise. Though aren't these facilities all sealed up anyway? With the bunny suits and all.

      • Could ocean water work? Or are we talking crystal clear, pure stuff?

        It's not for cooling, it's part of the lithographic process, so it needs to be quite pure.

        Also it seems like the southern tip is pretty clear air wise.

        Just because it appears clear doesn't mean it doesn't still have to be heavily filtered.

        Though aren't these facilities all sealed up anyway? With the bunny suits and all.

        All the air has to be filtered into the building and cycled back out. Failure to do so results in CO2 building up which is bad for humans.

        Both air and water can be filtered but the cost of doing these is higher (as it requires more frequent maintenance) with higher levels of contaminants.

      • Multidimensionally pure water: ions, organics, microbes, and particulates. Failures here are expensive. I don't know if it was specifically water, but Intel had a debacle with being unable to start volume production 1991-92 of 28F010 flash memory, because a Nippon Steel contract fab turned out to be too dirty to produce usable devices. AMD came to the rescue with fundamentally better devices.

    • Re:Nope. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ghoul ( 157158 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @09:41PM (#61223120)
      India has deserts but it also has the rainiest point on Earth. Total water is not an issue- distribution is. There are places in India with good enough water supply and unlimited power from nuclear plants. Air pollution is not an issue as all fabs have air filtration anyway. Electricity infrastructure can be built as captive infrastructure. The problems will be more in ancilliary industries like Silicon wafer production, chemical reagent manufacturing. Not many countries have all the pieces. EUV machines are only made by one company in Netherland (ASML) so even US and Taiwan dont have all the pieces in-country. What India does have is a big domestic market. Lots of Cellphone manufacturing happens in India so there is a guaranteed market. If the central govt takes interest and makes sure import clerances for essential machinery, regulatory clearances (Fabs are highly polluting and there is bound to be environmental protests) are taken care of many companies will be tempted to go for it. As for the engineering talent , lot of the talent working at Intel is of Indian Origin. They could be tempted to come back for short deputations by offering them US salaries at Indian cost of living.
      • One can do a great deal across a wide range of end products with 22-28 nm process, which could be both a step toward independence in semiconductors, and a way to bootstrap into scary-expensive EUV. India already produces around 18% of the world's active pharmaceutical ingredients, in between quality scandals. (I believe I've had Ranbaxy atorvastatin in the US.)

  • That's... it? (Score:3)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @06:46PM (#61222682)
    ONE billion? Isn't that about 1/25th of the cost of a modern fab? Hey buddy, this yummy snicker's bar can be yours for free, and all you have to do is come into my shop and spend a cool 10 grand. Who could pass that up?

    • ONE billion? Isn't that about 1/25th of the cost of a modern fab?

      TSMC's planned 5 nm fab is estimated to cost $20B to $25B.

      Larger step sizes are much cheaper and that is what India is targeting. TFA says $5B to $7B.

    • I know the highest end cost goes up every shrink, but does that mean the lesser end costs don't improve some? Meaning what cost 10 billion before might cost 9, then 8, then... Right? Meanwhile the best went 12, then 14, then 16...

      What if they made a 10-12 nm facility? With the next step for cutting edge being 3nm from what I read. I think cars use 65nm for some parts currently. Sure, not cutting edge, but probably cheaper than buying from out of country. And making a bone stock ARM CPU shouldn't be t

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      About $5bn for a plant, so they are offering 20% in cash. But not just cash, also regulatory support for building a large plant that needs energy and water supplies, roads, nearby housing for staff etc.

  • ...I shall become a B1H.

  • But seriously, I've long had some chip ideas. I have partially worked them out in VHDL, using the GNU VHDL compiler.. My two concepts are:

    (1) A better neuromorphic chip. Currently, "AI" chips are proprietary and generally available to anyone. The technology is also very limited, in terms of customizability. The reasons I stopped working on this is two-fold: (a) I'll obviously never be able to build and market them; and (b) I have developed an interesting software approach that can do pattern identifica

    • I want to make a simple DIY kit for producing a 555 chip. Lithography, high UV light source, finely grown doped silicon, the works. I think $1B should just about cover the costs for making a few hundred kits, and I'll pocket whatever money I make on the Kickstarter.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ghoul ( 157158 )
      This is for setting up Fabs. India already has a lot of Chip Design labs. Intel, Cadence, STMicro, Motorola, Siemens, IBM all have labs in India. What India doesnt have are cutting edge fabs. The Fabs they have are 4-5 generations behind the latest fabs INTC or TSMC have - good enough for TV chips but not cellphones or computers. India's largest import bill after oil is microporcessors so this kind of makes sense.
  • ... if I make on the cahhhhpet?

  • Lest they end up like the investors in Hongxin in China

    https://slashdot.org/story/21/... [slashdot.org]

  • To make a ARM CPU fab... realistically what will be the cost to establish a fab that can make, say 5nm process, only 100K wafers per year?

  • I got your chips right here ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by swell ( 195815 ) <jabberwock@poetic.com> on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @08:05PM (#61222924)

    Call me Narendra, you won't regret it. My chips are the best. Crisped in the finest polyunsaturated ghee and flavored with rock salt from the mines at Mandi in Himachal Pradesh. Fit for *all* the right gods, but not for Muslims, these will become the iconic food of India! You will be forever remembered for your contribution to our chip factory.

  • Really? Japan announces $1b for roads and India gives it away to chip makers? Huh?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ghoul ( 157158 )
      1 Billion from Japan for Roads means 1 Billion of stimulus spending for Japanese road building companies. Its not like Japan actally gives the money to India. Its given to Japanese companies. Its a kind of PPP program.
  • 1 Billion is like 70c per Indian. Thats like 50 Rupees per Indian. India can surely afford at least 10 Billion.
  • Trump wanted something similar and it was racist. Is this also racist?

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