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Amazon Delivery Drivers Forced To Sign 'Biometric Consent' Form or Lose Job (vice.com) 108

Posted by msmash from the stranger-things dept.
Amazon delivery drivers nationwide have to sign a "biometric consent" form this week that grants the tech behemoth permission to use AI-powered cameras to access drivers' location, movement, and biometric data. From a report: If the company's delivery drivers, who number around 75,000 in the United States, refuse to sign these forms, they lose their jobs. The form requires drivers to agree to facial recognition and other biometric data collection within the trucks they drive. "Amazon may... use certain Technology that processes Biometric Information, including on-board safety camera technology which collects your photograph for the purposes of confirming your identity and connecting you to your driver account," the form reads. "Using your photograph, this Technology, may create Biometric Information, and collect, store, and use Biometric Information from such photographs." It adds that "this Technology tracks vehicle location and movement, including miles driven, speed, acceleration, braking, turns, and following distance ...as a condition of delivery packages for Amazon, you consent to the use of Technology."
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Amazon Delivery Drivers Forced To Sign 'Biometric Consent' Form or Lose Job More

Amazon Delivery Drivers Forced To Sign 'Biometric Consent' Form or Lose Job

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  • If you support this shit, buy from Amazon. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Pierre Pants ( 6554598 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:15PM (#61191134)
    If you don't support shit like this, don't buy from Amazon.
    • I don't.
      I also avoid Whole Foods now, which really isn't all that hard.

      • So what, you buy your groceries at Incomplete Foods now?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Gates82 ( 706573 )

        Same Here; but I wish it were that simple.

        While I don't personally buy from Amazon; I recognize that other entities whom I do business with purchase things (or host websites) from Amazon, and while I am removed from the process I am still feeding into that machine. I do what I can, though, I have been duped by other marketplaces on websites that I typically trust (like Newegg). Order something from a seller and it shows up in Amazon packaging. Very frustrating.

        --
        The Rankled Engineer

    • If you don't support shit like this, don't work for Amazon.

      If you don't support shit like this, don't even think about Amazon.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jonsmirl ( 114798 )

        If you don't like employee surveillance like this, don't drive trucks loaded with a million dollars worth of merchandise. You can always drive for Doordash where all that is at risk is yourself and a bag for food. Consider that they are monitoring for reckless driving, drug use, theft, etc. They pay fairly well and expect a professional job to be done. Try driving an armored truck, the surveillance is ten times worse.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by starblazer ( 49187 )
          amzn doesn't employ these drivers, they are all contracted out. Will be fun to see these workers classified as amzn employees with this kind of crap.
          • The drivers are most, if not all, employees. Just not of Amazon. To avoid just the issue you are speaking of, Amazon put in place a system where to be a delivery contractor you have to set up a company with multiple vehicles and multiple drivers. They were trying to end the single driver/owner model specifically to short circuit any effort to make them Amazon employees.
            • Yes, exactly. It's what happened to FedEx Ground. They got of the ISPs with one van and one man and made them CSPs with a requirement of multiple employees and vans.
              However, that will not stop certain states from classifying them as amzn employees if challanged because 1) contractor only services amazn and amazn calls all the shots.

        • Doordash pays even less than driving Amazon (Score:5, Interesting)

          by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:56PM (#61191386)
          you can't make a living off it. And no, living with 6 people in a 3 bedroom apartment and praying your bald tires don't give out on the freeway isn't "making a living".

          I work in finance. I have access to way, way *way* more money than any armored truck driver will ever see but I don't get monitored 24/7 like that. Why? I'm paid well enough they know I won't throw my life away stealing a few hundred thou or even a million or so. My life is worth more than that.

          Maybe we should ask ourselves why it is that the lives of an Amazon Truck driver are worth less than a few tens of thousand (wholesale) worth of merchandise. And remember, no man is an island, and the bell, it tolls for thee. If you don't know what that means look it up.

          • Somebody mod this guy way up, wish I had points...
            it's long past time to ask why private sector pays so shitty that people would rather draw on gov't benefits. Because believe me, the gov't benefits are *very* humble. Barely livable in fact. And before somebody starts to say "Jobs" well why not go and create a few jobs that people can actually live on. Not all jobs are worth having, or doing.

          • Re:Doordash pays even less than driving Amazon (Score:4, Insightful)

            by longk ( 2637033 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @04:23AM (#61191906)

            Two answers to that question:

            1) Amazon doesn't want to pay more than necessary.

            2) The truck driver needs a job.

            Lets ignore Amazon's profit and say they intend to pay truck drivers 100K:

            1) Where do you get the driver that's actually worth 100K? Wouldn't that more intelligent and reliable guy rather stay in his 125K 9-5 finance job? or even his 80K finance job? Is driving a truck daily really challenging enough?

            2) What will the old truck driver do? He still needs a job. Wouldn't he just end up doing some other menial job?

            • the point of paying the driver well is that it gives them stability. It *makes* them worth that much money. Not to Amazon, but to society as a whole. Because soceity sees increased stability, lower costs from the "high cost of being poor", etc, etc.

              Amazon can pay their drivers like shit because they externalize costs. The driver who cracks and steals packages gets put in jail. You and me pay for the cops who arrest them, the court that convicts them and the jail that houses them. We pay for the child se

          • Re:Doordash pays even less than driving Amazon (Score:4, Interesting)

            by cusco ( 717999 ) <brian@bixby.gmail@com> on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:31AM (#61192386)

            You've pointed out one of the places where our society has a real blind spot. Banks spend oodles of money preventing armed robberies, but they always lose much more to white collar crime. Who gets in the newspaper? The guy with the gun My wife worked in retail for many years, they all lose more money to insider theft than to shoplifters, but spend tens of thousands of dollars in cameras on the sales floor and don't install one on the loading dock.

            I was a minimum wage Kelley Services temp in a bank trust department for a few months in the '90s. Two weeks after I started they were closing down a trust and my boss gave me a couple of million dollars of checks to write and then everyone in the office went to lunch. No one even checked my work when they got back, or for that matter the entire time I worked there. The cashier in the Woolworths next door got her till counted twice before they let her go home that evening.

            • that I'm highlighting. Believe it or not we spend a *ton* of money stopping it. If you don't work in finance you don't really see all the laws, rules, regulations and systems in place to stop it. If I tried something I would get caught eventually. And long before the losses were substantial.

              But the point is I would never do it in the first place because the risk/reward isn't worth it. I'm paid enough to enjoy a tolerable life (although I'm smart enough to understand it's very fragile).

              I pointed this

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by cusco ( 717999 )

                I don't think it's at all a matter of being underpaid. As I mentioned above I was literally making minimum wage working for Kelley Services and writing millions of dollars of checks, at least Amazon drivers get a reasonable wage and some benefits, and no package they'll ever deliver is worth millions.

                I've known a few thieves over the years, they rarely become thieves because they're poor. They generally become thieves because they're lazy and stupid. Unfortunately there will always be a "lazy and stupid"

      • Volco Amazon is fine though.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by randjh ( 7163909 )
      Glad to see this happening.This should give all the "If it's not the Government they can do whatever they want" brand of Free Marketers pause for thought.

      • Pause to think about what? That a business wants to ensure people aren't pocketing goods meant for customers or at the very least not leaving them at the wrong address? I get a lot of things from Amazon and three times already this year my box left the warehouse, was en route then was marked delivered even though no delivery driver ever stopped out front according to my ring camera. The box won't show en route unless it was scanned as it went into the truck. It won't say delivered unless the driver scanned

    • Re:If you support this shit, buy from Amazon. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @11:24PM (#61191576) Homepage Journal

      If you support this - then make sure that everyone within Amazon are put on the same rules including the owners, and that includes all shareholders.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        Do you think that Jeff Bezos' exact location and activity ISN'T tracked and monitored every minute of every day? Go talk to his security staff.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nagora ( 177841 )

      If you don't support shit like this, don't buy from Amazon.

      I stopped when they pulled the software patent shit over something they didn't even invent. I don't know why so many people on /. who presumable rely for their jobs on software not being locked up in patents continue to buy stuff from a company that want's to take their jobs away.

    • I live in Canada where my stuff is aways delivered by Canada Post, FedEx, UPS or DHL, you insensitive clod!

    • Not to disagree entirely, but you do realize that only a couple states (that durn durty librul flatland illinoize being one) make it illegal:

      https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/... [eff.org]

      I know of many employers that require biometrics for building access / time clocks / et al. indeed becoming a majority of employers as it becomes cheaper. So yes, hate on Amazon, but damn well push for more states to require informed consent, direct that the employer cannot compel, provides data protections, and actually punishes

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        A few years ago I was completely opposed to using biometrics, mostly because I had worked with a few systems and they uniformly sucked. With advances in hardware and algorithms they've become reliable, and now they're rapidly becoming cheap.

        Your employer probably already has your photo, at least if they have security cameras or you use an access badge anywhere. A biometric scan is **MUCH** less granular in detail than a photograph, they're just collections of selected data points. You could never take a

        • This isn't just about photographs though, it's about things like fingerprints. In my example Idemia makes entry scanners that use your fingerprints. Do you think a corporation reinvented the wheel when they built out verification for credit card via fingerprint? That's kind of a trick question, unless you have even the slightest inkling how corporations work. Odds are they used the exact same algorithm so if you get one set of fingerprint data, it can be used for the other.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by cusco ( 717999 )

            Of course they're using the same, or at least similar, algorithms. The FBI uses essentially the same system to look at crime scene evidence (without the automatic link to the credit card system, of course). I thought that was obvious, and I'm curious as to why you think that's problematic.

            Again, the fingerprint scanner doesn't really record an image of the entire fingerprint, just whatever points the algorithm thinks are pertinent (which is why there are a few people who pop up as matches to someone else)

            • They don't use the same system as the FBI, they have their own algorithm. I would think that is self-evident, in that it depends on the tech being used to capture the fingerprint. I mean, it's not ink we're talking about here. They calculate based off a reader that they define the specifications for construction. Now other companies might use similar algorithms as each other but they would still be different because similar isn't identical.

              However we get into problematic territory when company A makes a

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by cusco ( 717999 )

                They don't use the same system as the FBI, they have their own algorithm.

                Of course, to a point. They all map the relationship between selected attributes on the fingerprint, face image, iris, etc. The way they do it may be different but the principle is the same.

                Since I consider wide scale use of biometric data to be inevitable I am of the opposite opinion from yourself. I agree that Company A and Company Z should not both have my data, and it's because I don't trust them to manage it correctly. Where I'm of the opposite opinion of yourself is that I think there should be a

                • Where I'm of the opposite opinion of yourself is that I think there should be a central clearinghouse for authentication, similar to the purpose that Active Directory can serve on a network.

                  I've got one name for you: Experian. All of this will be hacked, and governments will never hold these companies accountable. The best that could be hoped for, at that point, is the losses are socialized while the profits are privatized. Personally I find that solution unacceptable as it continues rent-seeking behavior that provides no real value, nor any real incentive for improvement.

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by cusco ( 717999 )

                    This is why I said "a publicly accountable agency", Experian is a profit-generating corporation run by bean counters and MBAs rather than technologists and security experts. It would obviously be exceedingly important infrastructure and need to be protected from political and corporate influence, which is why I'm under no illusion that it could be successfully implemented in the Untied States.

                    Yeah, I'm thinking like a techie rather than a businessperson. That's just the way my brain works.

    • Re:If you support this shit, buy from Amazon. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by cusco ( 717999 ) <brian@bixby.gmail@com> on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:33AM (#61192390)

      If you don't support shit like this and think you're going to stop it from being rolled out everywhere then you're living in a fantasy world. "Shit like this" is going to apply to every person in every modern society very soon.

  • So they are employees now and can't be 1099's (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:16PM (#61191138)

    So they are employees now and can't be seen as 1099's in any way?

  • This has already been covered (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:17PM (#61191144) Journal
    Amazon now does the same as any trucking company in the country so far as continual monitoring of it's drivers, right down to facial expressions and any word or sound coming out of their mouths, as well as any and all vehicle-operation data. And just like the trucking industry, they'll likely use all of it to keep drivers under their thumbs constantly, using it to deny them raises, vacation time, and even fire them when it's inconvenient to keep them on (i.e. when they're due for promotion).
    Since I know people in the trucking industry I hear about all of this. Amazon will be no exception, and considering how they treat their warehouse employees, I'm sure of it.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      God damn am I glad I have a seven figure bank balance and could walk away from this shit any time I wanted to if my employer started pulling stuff like this.

      • God damn am I glad I have a seven figure bank balance and could walk away from this shit any time I wanted to if my employer started pulling stuff like this.

        Don't worry the corporations will come for that too. Probably to fund their bailouts during the next financial crisis.

        • Strip mining the middle class (Score:5, Insightful)

          by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:53PM (#61191378)
          I don't actually believe AC has a 7 figure bank account (people with money have better things to do than post AC to /.) but let's pretend for a moment they do.

          There was a story about a millionaire angry they couldn't get the time of day from politicians anymore because the billionaires monopolized them.

          I can promise everyone reading this, if you've got money and security somewhere out there is somebody scheming to take it away from you, and sooner or later one of them will succeed. Nobody who reads /. is a shark. The biggest among us are more like angry sea bass. You might die before they get it, but that just means they'll get it from your kids.

          This is why guys like me keep saying we should have a society where we're not constantly living in fear.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by XXongo ( 3986865 )

            I don't actually believe AC has a 7 figure bank account (people with money have better things to do than post AC to /.) but let's pretend for a moment they do.

            Seven figures is $1M. That's not all that unusual for somebody with a decent tech job who's been in the field a while.

            Does pretty much imply he doesn't have kids, of course.

            • Seven figures in the bank means fiscal stupidity right now. Interest rates are so low they're bordering on negative - that money should be invested in rentable property and get some decent returns.

              Admittedly the last 7-figure balance I had was 90% inherited though.
            • Google statistics on wealth in America. 7 figures is very unusual. 60% of us live paycheck to paycheck. 70-80% don't have more than a few thousand in the bank.

              Also we don't have Universal healthcare. All it takes is one bad illness to wipe that out.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by XXongo ( 3986865 )

                Google statistics on wealth in America. 7 figures is very unusual.

                Google statistics on "people with a decent tech job who have been in the field a while". You'll find that they are very unusual.

        • > > am I glad I have a seven figure bank balance and could walk away from this shit any time I wanted to if my employer started pulling stuff like this.

          > Don't worry the corporations will come for that too

          Somebody is coming to take all the money from the "wealthy" people, but it ain't Amazon. There's a different group of people who are envious of those who have saved.

    • Re:This has already been covered (Score:4, Informative)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot&worf,net> on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @05:40AM (#61192004)

      Amazon now does the same as any trucking company in the country so far as continual monitoring of it's drivers, right down to facial expressions and any word or sound coming out of their mouths, as well as any and all vehicle-operation data. And just like the trucking industry, they'll likely use all of it to keep drivers under their thumbs constantly, using it to deny them raises, vacation time, and even fire them when it's inconvenient to keep them on (i.e. when they're due for promotion).
      Since I know people in the trucking industry I hear about all of this. Amazon will be no exception, and considering how they treat their warehouse employees, I'm sure of it.

      Depends.

      If you're O-O, you have a LOT more flexibility in what happens. You don't have to have a commercial vehicle dashcam installed in your truck. It doesn't mean you aren't monitored - containers and trailers are routinely GPS equipped so they can be tracked (because trailer theft is actually a thing). In fact, BlackBerry (yes, those guys) is one of the big players in that market.

      Of course, as an O-O, you're generally freelancing and have to seek out your own contracts.

      Smaller trucking companies also generally are more flexible and often hire O-O's and such. Their fleets are also generally more equipped.

      The big problem with the trucking industry are the big players - they're routinely undercutting, underpaying, and undertraining drivers. Undercutting the smaller companies on price to get the contracts they know they can barely break even on, only doing it by severely underpaying the driver (Why fly when you can drive, given "truck distance" that makes the US half the size it is). And the training is a joke, and lease deals for trucks that basically screw the driver over again by enslaving them for years in poor equipment.

      Of course, it also is the big nationals that are complaining about "how hard it is to find drivers". Given the piss-poor working conditions, poverty pay, lack of respect, and crappy equipment, well, yeah, people don't like to work like that.

      OTR with the big guys suck. It's decent with the little guys, but you always worry about being gobbled up. Or just giving up OTR altogether and driving local - not only are the hours better, they generally treat you better (though you still have dash cams that record everything, but it's a little less creepy since you're not in the truck 24/7 - only when you're on the job) and you get to be in your own bed at night.

      • My roommates worked as an OTR team for Werner for a little while, and they hated it the whole time, they got paid $0.49 a mile zip to zip, and they were often spending 4+ hrs sitting at a dock waiting to be loaded and unloaded, not getting paid. I think they ended up only making like $80 a day average between the 2 of them. After like 6 months they both quit and went to work for fedex instead.

  • they're just disclosing it now.

  • Now they can form an union even when working for an staffing firm

  • Unions (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fermion ( 181285 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:35PM (#61191180) Homepage Journal
    This is why Unions are needed. To provide a way for workers to reach compromises with employers. Biometrics may be necessary for Amazon to manage deliveries, but what to workers get in return? Are the going to benefit from the intrusion? Or are their benefits and pay just going to erode as employers say my way or the highway?
    • I do not know how they would even unionize under the circumstances. They are not Amazon employees. They would have to unionize each delivery contractor separately until they got to a critical mass and could demand Amazon negotiate directly with the union. But Amazon has turned becoming a delivery contractor into a quick turn operation, Amazon has the trucks for lease, and Amazon provides the financing. So as contractors fail to make their obligations, they are replaced.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by fermion ( 181285 )
        A Union helps everyone. Even the socialists who donâ(TM)t contribute anything still get pay rises. With COVID they still get the days and extra sick leave. Hourly and contract employees, often who canâ(TM)t afford to contribute or who are not eligible, over the past year, havegotten addition compensation negotiated by the unions as well.

  • Insidious Corporate Law (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Arzaboa ( 2804779 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @07:55PM (#61191234)

    This is how you lose your rights in the United States. Don't want to sell your soul to your employer? It's easy, just go find another place that pays like what you're used to. That is what the entire argument would be boiled down to if you didn't agree. You can take it to court if you don't like it!

    The government, who creates laws, is run by lobbyists. These corporations use the laws to do things the government can not. All of this data is for sale on the back end to anyone that can afford it.

    This data can only be used for a few things. Prosecution, "Improved Efficiency" and creating human profiles. This data certainly will not be used to figure out which employees would benefit from a few extra days of vacation.

    Corporate law is insidious. It creates little fiefdom's of people that act a certain way as only those people will be hired. Only those people will then move into your neighborhoods. This creates entire communities of people that end up living near each other and thinking exactly the same. This is one of the overlooked mechanisms of the sorting of America.

    This stuff has to go. I would love to see laws made in the name of people instead of corporations. I would love to see laws that stop companies from creating their own laws. In this case, no facial recognition, no tracking, data sharing, data deletion requests, can't fire someone for saying no to extraneous things. Corporations aren't people and shouldn't have the same rights as people. Money isn't free speech.

    Let's not be fooled. All of these "improvements" are to squeeze out one more dollar for the company. They are going to do that by putting us all in an AI simulation. They're going to run it 10,000 times. The output will be in the form of contracts so that someone in corporate can tell you how you work best.

    We are human. Let's not let the race for perfect efficiency destroy that.
    --
    All human things Of dearest value hang on slender strings. - Edmund Waller

    • What rights are being taken away by agreeing to these terms?

    • I would love to see laws made in the name of people instead of corporations.

      Me too, but it's a hard sell when we all depend on business to provide the things we need, and when businesses are corporations. We're dependent on them, it's easy for them to take control.

      • Don't blame the businesses, they are doing the best that they can given the framework politicians created for them. Blame the politicians. They are the ones taking the money and granting "donors" a seat at the table. And blame the citizens for not being aware of which politicians (on both sides!) are the worst offenders and voting them back in again and again.

        • Blame only the people taking the money and not the people giving it? Uh no.

          • Unless you are a shareholder, they don't work for you. It isn't the responsibility of businesses to decide what is "fair" in the political process, and I doubt you would want them in charge of that sort of thing. (If only there were an organization responsible for setting up the rules to ensure the needs of the people were taken into account, to "represent" the people so to speak. Hrmmm) If everyone felt the way you did, you might have a point. But they don't, so you don't. Business have hard metrics that s

            • Unless you are a shareholder, they don't work for you.

              Completely irrelevant to the argument.

              It isn't the responsibility of businesses to decide what is "fair" in the political process

              Corporations are legal fictions and everything "they" do is actually the action of a person. That person is still ultimately responsible for their own actions.

              You don't like what they are doing, get rid of them.

              Fair enough. Cue 'Fight Club'

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      All of this data is for sale on the back end to anyone that can afford it.

      In order to afford this data you'd have to be able to buy the entire company. Amazon does not sell its data to third parties.

    • Not to mention they could be extremely dangerous to the employee in the future. Idemia is a company that makes entry systems that uses fingerprints. Coincidentally Idemia also partnered with credit card companies in the Asian region to use fingerprints to process transactions. Who wants to bet that they use the same algorithm to generate the data for verification?
  • It's only a matter of time before they require you to live in company housing and buy your food from the Company Store.
    • Company house ? WHy bother with a hosue thats a waste of land and time travelling. Sleepunder a desk or live in the company truck.

  • So where are the bad parts? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by couchslug ( 175151 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:31PM (#61191320)

    I mean precisely.

    How is vehicle tracking not appropriate? Why should (inherently un-trustworthy because they're human) drivers be trusted?

    It's common for items to be shown as delivered when I check tracking data but not show up until the next day because drivers "pre-scan" them to save time (and sabotage tracking).

    Tracking employees using employer-owned hardware is not oppression unless that data is used for illegal purposes. They are not on their own time and perform in a position of importance handling valuable goods.

    The yowls of complaint are why we need robots to eliminate work so no one will be oppressed by having to do their job, but meantime keeping them on-task is merely a way to help get them to do what they are paid to do. They're free to quit if they like.

    • Vehicle Tracking: Driver doesn't own it the asset, driver is aware of the tracking, vehicle owner installed tracking.
      Tracking data/delivery falsification: Up to the company to prosecute. Easy to tell because GPS data won't line up with delivery address. While it can defeated, it's harder if you have locked down scanning hardware.

      The problem I have with this is that amazon doesn't employ these workers, they contract out with the subcontractor which amzn basically tells them "do this now or no contract"

    • Tracking employees pissing in an cup on the road as they don't have time to take an real pit stop.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Why should (inherently un-trustworthy because they're human) drivers be trusted?

      And there's the problem.

      Companies who think their employees are inherently untrustworthy tend to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      Those that do trust their employees (within reasonable bounds, appropriate to the level of responsibility) tend to get a whole lot more back from them than those that do not.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ET3D ( 1169851 )

        Do you have any actual proof of this assertion?

        I'd imagine that companies that at least for companies who pay badly, and therefore don't hire the best, tracking and micromanagement improves employee performance.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by trabby ( 4123953 )

      I don't think pre-scanning happens as much these days. The scanners themselves have GPS in them so if they are not near the delivery location it will refuse to scan.

      • Re:So where are the bad parts? (Score:4, Informative)

        by starblazer ( 49187 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @05:48AM (#61192020) Homepage
        for us they throw up a "hey, you're not within range, are you really, REALLY sure you want to do this?" If we say "Yep, I know what I'm doing" then it gets thrown on a report for management to investigate.

        • I wish USPS and Fedex had that tech, anytime I have a package listed at delivered without actually being delivered, it's always either USPS or Fedex. It happened once with Fedex, 2 packages were marked as delivered, but only 1 was actually there and the other package arrived 4 months later (much to my surprise as I had already contacted the seller who filed a claim with Fedex and then sent me a second package). With USPS I would often call to inquire about the "delivered" package, and the person on the phon

          • I have the same issue with the USPS. Of course I'm 2 blocks from the PO, so I can understand the USPS not being able to find my house.

          • they said their drivers often mark all of the packages as delivered because they are running behind on their route and don't have time to complete the delivery that day, which just sounds insane to me, why not just mark it as delayed

            Because higher management only cares about the official numbers and they don't want to see packages delivered the next day. The metrics have a lot of fake data because people aren't allowed to be human.

            Lot of drive-thru restaurants will refuse to take your order right away when you get to the speaker. They're not too busy to take your order. They know that once they take your order the timer starts counting. So they want to clear out some of the other cars first so they can make your wait look shorter t

  • It's for their own financial protection [youtu.be], really.
  • It is here! AI controlling peoples actions. Amazon will use AI to analyze the movements of the people to make them more "efficient". Once the AI learns how to do that function, people will get replaced.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      Once the AI learns how to do that function, people will get replaced.

      I hope you didn't think this was some big corporate secret. They've been working on that on multiple fronts for two decades now, Amazon is one of the world leaders in workplace automation. You should look up the YouTube videos of the Kiva robots in the fulfillment centers, one is set to ballet music.

  • The lowest paid workers get treated the worst (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bruceki ( 5147215 ) on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @01:48AM (#61191716)
    They're fired if they show up late even once. they're constantly monitored. their breaks are rigidly scheduled and oftentimes the time of the break is mandated by the employer. Folks will do your shitwork for you, they'll pack and carry and labor. Respect their contributions to your life and don't begrudge them a little dignity as they scrap the shit off your ass.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      Don't know what employer you're talking about, but not Amazon. Maybe that's how they treat you at McDonalds, but Amazon is a lot more flexible.

  • How may this data be used ? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) <addw@phcomp.co.uk> on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @02:25AM (#61191740) Homepage

    How long is it retained and who may see it ? These are the important things. As long as it is kept for just long enough to deal issues such as parcel theft and motor accidents. Derived data can be kept longer, eg driver Smith was in a particular vehicle on a certain day. The driver must be allowed free use/copies for any reason, perhaps to be able to defend himself from any claim that Amazon might make against him.

    Use for anything other than to do with driver duties must be absolutely forbidden, eg: Amazon suggesting that they might like to buy another pair of shoes like the ones that the cameras have seen him wearing.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      As long as it is kept for just long enough to deal issues such as parcel theft and motor accidents.

      Data storage is not free, especially on the scale necessary for what's being described in the article. I work in Amazon Corporate Security, between us, the fulfillment centers and AWS the company has over 100,000 standard security cameras, each of which pumps out an average of over a gig of recordings per day. I've worked in physical security for most of two decades and can count on my fingers the number of times a video recording more than two months old was actually needed, we keep video anywhere from 2

      • The article said they'd use biometrics for facial recognition, not streaming video. And there's probably no need to store the verified image once its done. Even so, if it "stores" 25 jpgs per day, that would be a few MB per driver. The rest of the storage would be to track vehicle stats which could be a few MB per day as well. So let's say it required 10mb/day per driver. I see an article that says Amazon has 75k drivers. To be generous we can say there are 200k drivers and all work full shifts 5 days/week.

  • All we need to do is get Bezos a wig and plastic head shield and he'll be good to go.

  • I used to work for a company that built devices like this to monitor 18-wheeler long-haul drivers ... and the other drivers who hit them, then sued, saying it was the driver's fault. The first year, these devices paid for themselves by showing 2/3 of the lawsuits the suing driver was at fault. The unions always fight against these recordings, protecting their bad members, but once the good drivers realized they were the ones being protected by the cameras, our units were being lauded by the unions. Nob

    • Make your own food at home. You think you are winning by trying to get a warm meal, but you dont see that your work life just became a prison where every action is monitored.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Wolfrider ( 856 )

      You are part of the problem. There is a distinct difference between a camera facing out to the road to protect the driver and the company, and a camera that is turned inward to intrusively monitor the driver. That is a loss of privacy that should be fought against and *never* allowed in the US. No one should sign this contract - if everyone stands up at once the company will have no way to enforce it.

  • where are people and gov taking actions against amazon ?

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