Gig Economy Shift: Spain Declares Delivery Drivers are Employees (apnews.com) 124
"The Spanish government on Thursday announced legislation that classifies food delivery riders as employees of the digital platforms they work for, not self-employed," reports the Associated Press:
The Minister for Labor, Yolanda Díaz, said the new law is "pioneering" and is part of "a modernization of the labor market" in Spain, updating regulations in accordance with technological developments to ensure workers' rights are upheld...
The legal changes are the latest affecting companies and workers in the gig economy. Last month, Britain's top court ruled that Uber drivers should be classed as "workers" and not self-employed, in what was seen as a major setback for the ride-hailing giant. The Spanish government agreed on the new law with the country's main business groups and trade union confederations.
But the law, which is expected to come into force within months, was quickly contested by an association of digital platforms providing food delivery services and by some riders who prefer the flexibility of being self-employed.
The Association of Service Platforms calls the rule "an assault on the most basic principles of the freedom to do business..."
The legal changes are the latest affecting companies and workers in the gig economy. Last month, Britain's top court ruled that Uber drivers should be classed as "workers" and not self-employed, in what was seen as a major setback for the ride-hailing giant. The Spanish government agreed on the new law with the country's main business groups and trade union confederations.
But the law, which is expected to come into force within months, was quickly contested by an association of digital platforms providing food delivery services and by some riders who prefer the flexibility of being self-employed.
The Association of Service Platforms calls the rule "an assault on the most basic principles of the freedom to do business..."
Spain (Score:3, Interesting)
Of everywhere I have ever lived, Spain was the most difficult to do business in. I don't think I've ever seen a government work so hard to keep people from making money. It is so bad they even joke about government workers who keep people from doing anything [youtube.com].
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So what if someone has a day job and wants to make a little side money during the evening? They suddenly need to be an employee? Also it's Spain, they will just hire agencies to handle the new employees, one that makes almost no money, doesn't bother to follow the rules, and folds if anything gets too hot. It is literally the Spanish way, I've even seen the interior ministry hire illegals to teach English by using a contracting agency. I knew a lot of Americans who were illegally in Spain working for
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Re: Spain (Score:3, Informative)
Re: Spain (Score:3, Insightful)
the only thing it did in canada is raise prices, raise delivery times, mais delivery more expensive and I get my good cold most of the time with no recourse. we had delivery before and it was working fine until it was "mondialised"
You missed the point. This is not about making you satisfied with food delivery. It is about making delivery workers satisfied with food delivery.
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the only thing it did in canada is raise prices, raise delivery times, mais delivery more expensive and I get my good cold most of the time with no recourse. we had delivery before and it was working fine until it was "mondialised"
You missed the point. This is not about making you satisfied with food delivery. It is about making delivery workers satisfied with food delivery.
It's rather odd isn't it. These "people must be paid as little as possible" logic ends up claiming that if we can just reduce income to 0, everyone will be wealthy.
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These "people must be paid as little as possible"
Contractors are paid more than employees, not less.
What they lack are benefits.
If you want benefits, such as vacation, sick leave, and a pension, work as an employee.
If you want higher pay and flexibility, then work as a contractor.
If you want the government to choose for you, then move to Spain.
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Contractors are paid more than employees, not less.
That's quite a generalization and ideally would be true but here in Canada, I've read enough stories of these contractors making less then minimum wage as the company they're contracting to changed the deal.
Not to mention the restaurants problems with these delivery companies.
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It's always some bullshit story that spreads lies like that. There's a reason the vast majority of taxi cab drivers and big rig drivers are ICs and not employees and it's 100% because those people would rather have double the income for similar hours worked. Franchise owners are ICs who most laws like this say should be employees. Same for the vast majority of people in small team construction like flooring/bath/roofing installers who work for big box retailers or aggregation companies. The only people sayi
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You're making the same fallacy as Bill did, namely that as contracting usually is a superior option, it always is.
I'm a contractor and do good by it. Doesn't mean that every industry, even some that basically have negative margins, are ideal for contracting. Food delivery services are what I referenced, where it seems that all the companies happened to change their contracts unilaterally making it harder for the contractors to make money. I personally have never had a client unilaterally decide to pay me le
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It can only be considered a fallacy if you arbitrarily limit the conversation which you apparently are. There are not just a couple food delivery job options there are literally hundreds in every major city. That you are choosing to willingly ignore those hundreds only reenforces the fact that being an IC and choosing when and how you work is far more important to those drivers than becoming an employee with a set schedule at some restaurant or store.
Uber specifically started by touting the idea that if you
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I'm far from an expert in food delivery. I do know that most restaurants are run on a thin margin, so there probably isn't much potential in food delivery and read a few articles about people who started out doing pretty good doing the deliveries, working for a few companies and then things changed and they were working like hell for basically minimum wage.
Unluckily I can't find any of those articles right now, and maybe it was BS, though it is hard for me to imagine there's that much money in it.
As for Ub
Re: Spain (Score:5, Informative)
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If a contractor isn't paid enough to cover those benefits, then they *are* getting paid less.
This is only true if the employee values the benefit at or above its cost.
I worked for a company that offered health insurance with a 50% match. About half the employees declined coverage.
They were mostly young single guys who figured they were unlikely to get sick. They valued the benefit as worth less than half what it cost.
Sick days are worthless if you don't get sick. Vacation isn't worth much if you live alone and have no one to travel with. Many people prefer more money.
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Re: Spain (Score:5, Insightful)
These "people must be paid as little as possible"
Contractors are paid more than employees, not less.
Sure. But is it really more? If you want health insurance, you have to do the legwork. You have to pay workman's comp from that pay you get.One thing is for certain - they don't switch from employees to independent contractors to spend more money.
What they lack are benefits.
If you want benefits, such as vacation, sick leave, and a pension, work as an employee.
If you want higher pay and flexibility, then work as a contractor.
If you want the government to choose for you, then move to Spain.
If I might - my wife's company switched from Employees to independent contractors for their installers and tile people. The CEO simply decided that they would save money. My wife was very much against it, but as number two, she just went along. Here's what happened
After some initial grumbling, they went with it. But as independent contractors, they could work with anyone they wanted. And they were top tier workers, fast and accurate and the one tile guy was an absolute artist.
So they contracted with the market competition. They contracted with individual people. And they started telling my wife's company when they would be available And now that the competition could hire them, the best went to work with some of the competitors, and stopped doing any work for my wife's company.
The lost business was terrible. And his new independent contractors were not the best people.
So your simplistic If you don't like it here GTFO outlook is interesting, a sort of race to the bottom, where the least you pay employees H^H^H^H^H^H^ independent contractors will somehow work out great. WAnna pay shit wages to independent contractors? You get shit people. Basic supply and demand.
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So the individuals did better as contractors, and the CEO suffered the consequences of his own dumb decision.
I don't see the problem.
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So the individuals did better as contractors, and the CEO suffered the consequences of his own dumb decision.
I don't see the problem.
You assume that I was only talking about the ex employees. Other people, from the Owner, his family and remaining employees were negatively affected. The problem such as it is, is that the owner switched to independent contractors in order to make more money.
That was a huge problem for him. Consequences that an insightful person could see happening.
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So they contracted with the market competition. They contracted with individual people. And they started telling my wife's company when they would be available And now that the competition could hire them, the best went to work with some of the competitors, and stopped doing any work for my wife's company.
Sounds like a good thing to me, puts the power in the hands of the workers. If your company is shit then the good workers won't work for you.
You're the second person that only looked at this from the workers point of view.
I was illustrating how actions have consequences, and how trying to save money by going to independent contractors can actually lose you money as a person who hires IC's
The main difference between this example and Uber's hiring practices is that these ex employees were extremely skilled. They were very attractive prospects to hire and use their skillset.
Driving taxi is pretty much at the bottom of skillsets. But even with
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the only thing it did in canada is raise prices, raise delivery times, mais delivery more expensive and I get my good cold most of the time with no recourse. we had delivery before and it was working fine until it was "mondialised"
It's all about you, fuck people that are working and trying to make a living, amimrite? - By the way, your boss called, and he's going to reduce your wages by 50 percent - and is glad you're on board with that.
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It's telling that Western world has lived so long without slavery, many in it forgot WHY we banned it.
>"But work is less efficient without slavery! My product is more expensive! And some industries just stop being viable!"
Yes indeed. Just like in the past.
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Actual slavery was quite expensive compared to disposable workers.
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That is the popular narrative by rich Western people who forgot why we banned slavery and are desperately looking for more modern reasons to explain it.
In real life on the other hand, one of the major reasons why poor masses were extremely anti-slavery was because it was taking away their prosperity. It's simply cheaper for an industry baron to have a one time payment + maintenance fee for the worker than to pay them an actual living wage. Poor people were not competitive workers when slavery was available.
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>Slavery is still alive and well in the United States in the form of a criminal justice system that features the highest incarceration rate in the world and rents out those inmates for $0.50-$1.50 an hour to both public and private entities.
Factually correct. Relevant US legislation literally makes an exception in slavery for those being punished for a crime.
However in general, prison labour is widely considered acceptable simply due to the way justice and rehabilitation systems work. This is again leadi
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From a view of a radical socialist of 1940s, yes. It's about as counter-factual in its desperate need to paint reality as something it is not to justify horrors of Socialism as morally acceptable as Fukuyama's End of History for modern Western Capitalism.
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we had delivery before and it was working fine until it was "mondialised"
The same argument could be made to justify child labour. Getting you a lower price doesn't justify abusing others.
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You must live in a diffferent part of Canada than I do. I'm right in the heart of densely populated downtown Toronto, near universities, hospitals, government and office buildings, as well as other condos. There are 3 delivery services that bring ready-to-eat food in this neighborbourhood (and others for groceries).
Now, they won't deliver from every restaurant anywhere in the Greater Toronto Area; it's a goodly distance between my condo to the outskirts of the city, where enough of the fade to suburbia take
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If you are opposed to abortion, don't have one.
If you are opposed to gig work, don't do it.
But don't take away peoples' freedom to choose for themselves.
Adam Smith couldn't care less about your mod points.
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Re:Spain (Score:4, Insightful)
They get to take siestas in the day, then drink and dance all night while living in a beautiful place. Who cares how much money you make - care what life you have.
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huh, I said 'the government forcing you to live a good life because you don't need to accumulate millions too pay for surgeries and retirement and get to enjoy life" is nice. And you said "what about slaves in the tropics?"
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You live in the wrong area of Spain. It is absolutely like that in many areas. I thoroughly enjoy travelling to our Spanish sites. Sure our facilities are operating facilities so people don't actually sleep at lunch but they make up for it by finishing the day early and sleeping after work. Then they get up in the evening for dinner and party until 1am.
I still remember my first trip going into a restaurant at 9:30pm and being told I could have a drink but the kitchen wasn't open yet.
Then I couldn't sleep be
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It sounds like you were in one of the tourist zones. I never had trouble finding top notch food at 6 - 7 pm. The lifestyle I was happy with although even the constant free drinks get old after a bit. When I left Spain, I stopped drinking for several months.
What I wasn't happy about, was an overly expensive Madrid area where the prices for everything was high but the wages weren't high enough to justify it. I also wasn't happy with the way government regulations got in the way of getting things done, an
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When was there, it was only government workers who got to take siestas. Also, being payed well over the country's median wage and only being able to afford a bedroom in a shared apartment is not the class of life that I enjoy.
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I don't think I've ever seen a government work so hard to keep people from making money.
I know. Spain has been like that since they abolished slavery in 1834. Bloody socialists.
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I don't think I've ever seen a government work so hard to keep people from making money.
I know. Spain has been like that since they abolished slavery in 1834. Bloody socialists.
Spain didn't become Socialist until the 1930's well after slavery was abolished and shortly before Spain went from world power to dictatorship and C grade economy.
Socialism always produces the same results over and over again, but for some reason its adherents continue to believe that the next time will be different...
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Socialism always produces the same results over and over again, .
You must be American. Socialism can mean many different things, as does democracy or capitalism.
Sweden is hardly the same as Venezuela.
And BTW, I was making a joke, equating abolition of slavery with protection of gig workers, and socialism. Perhaps we should let the free market decide on slavery?
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You must be American.
Are you making a point of being wrong lol...
Sweden is hardly the same as Venezuela.
Yawn. Sweden is not Socialist, regardless of what uneducated Bernie bros try and tell you. Sweden has one of the highest levels of economic freedom on par with the US: https://www.heritage.org/index... [heritage.org]. Pro tip: Economic freedom is the opposite of Socialism.
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Isn't it convenient that none of those groups ever make any mistakes or drop the ball though? I mean, that's what we were supposed to believe given that they were specialized into a cage of clicking the same widget over and over again right?
That's kind of silly (Score:5, Interesting)
Here, in neighboring Portugal, we simply made it a requirement that everyone working for Uber and the like, needs to be employed at a partner company and not a "freelancer". All drivers and delivery men have the same full benefits of any other employee at any other company. Why make everything controversial by doing something radical after the fact instead of planning for it and incorporating innovation into the existing legal framework from the earliest stages?
Re: That's kind of silly (Score:1)
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This may be a second job and they get benefits from the primary job or their spouse may have them on their benefits package.
People should be allowed to choose no benefits IF they have benefits options elsewhere.
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Why make everything controversial by doing something radical after the fact instead of planning for it and incorporating innovation into the existing legal framework from the earliest stages?
Because they don't want to incorporate it into an existing legal framework. They want a monopoly. That's it. Whenever you see a tech startup use the word "disrupt", just mentally swap in the word "monopolize". Why do you think they get pumped full of huge geysers of investment cash? It's not because the investors think they're going to improve the world, that's for sure.
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needs to be employed at a partner company
Can I start my own partner company? With myself as the only employee? And maybe I incorporate it in the Caymen Islands, keeping all my company records in a locked filing cabinet there. In a disused restroom with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard".
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needs to be employed at a partner company
Can I start my own partner company? With myself as the only employee? And maybe I incorporate it in the Caymen Islands, keeping all my company records in a locked filing cabinet there. In a disused restroom with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard".
You can do anything you like. I wouldn't go talking about your plans online though.
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Can I start my own partner company? With myself as the only employee? And maybe I incorporate it in the Caymen Islands
Millions of people have personal corporations. Many of them are incorporated in the Cayman Islands, which is cheap and convenient, although incorporating in Delaware is a more common choice. The cost is about $200 and takes about an hour.
If you work as a contractor, incorporation makes the arrangement clean and easy for both you and the contractee. Tax reporting and deductions for expenses like your home office are also much easier.
I call Association of Service Platforms cunts... (Score:3)
The Association of Service Platforms calls the rule "an assault on the most basic principles of the freedom to do business..."
That doesn't mean I'd want to fuck them. Though I'm sure they'd like to fuck me if they could.
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The Association of Service Platforms calls the rule "an assault on the most basic principles of the freedom to do business..."
That doesn't mean I'd want to fuck them. Though I'm sure they'd like to fuck me if they could.
The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you get shit people.
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The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you get shit people.
The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you're a shit person.
There, I fixed that for you.
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The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you get shit people.
The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you're a shit person.
There, I fixed that for you.
Neither statement is broken, neither need "fixed".
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The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you get shit people.
The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you're a shit person.
There, I fixed that for you.
Neither statement is broken, neither need "fixed".
I disagree. All too often, good people have no other option that to do shit jobs.
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The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you get shit people.
The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you're a shit person.
There, I fixed that for you.
Neither statement is broken, neither need "fixed".
I disagree. All too often, good people have no other option that to do shit jobs.
Why? I hate to sound like a Republican, but I started out at the bottom, then worked my way up. I'd have worked for Uber as an independent contractor if I had to, but I'd be out of there as quickly as I could.
I've found that the biggest impediments to upward mobility is lack of drive, Fear of change, or insisting that something else is more important, like living in the same town their entire life. We makes our choices, and we lives with them.
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Why? I hate to sound like a Republican, but I started out at the bottom, then worked my way up. I'd have worked for Uber as an independent contractor if I had to, but I'd be out of there as quickly as I could.
I've found that the biggest impediments to upward mobility is lack of drive, Fear of change, or insisting that something else is more important, like living in the same town their entire life. We makes our choices, and we lives with them.
You can't argue with these people. I also started at the bottom, an immigrant with no money and I worked my way up through plenty of shit jobs to now be financially comfortable. The reason that older people tend to be Conservative is they've learned through a life of hard work that handouts are not a path to success.
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The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you get shit people.
"Shit people" need jobs too. If you price low-skill people out of the job market, you are replacing low pay with no pay.
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The problem of course, is that if you want to pay shit wages and benefits, you get shit people.
"Shit people" need jobs too. If you price low-skill people out of the job market, you are replacing low pay with no pay.
Sure. But the low skill people are suddenly going to have to shop for their own health insurance, make their workman's comp payments, do the SS stuff. Being na independent contractor is a great way fo find out you didn't estimate your quarterlies or didn't even pay into them at all.
And potentially in the US as well (Score:5, Interesting)
In January the House passed HR 842 Protecting the Right to Organize Act of 2021 [congress.gov] which has in it language that states (my emphasis):
(b) Employee.—Section 2(3) of the National Labor Relations Act (29 U.S.C. 152(3)) is amended by adding at the end the following:“An individual performing any service shall be considered an employee (except as provided in the previous sentence) and not an independent contractor, unless—
(A) the individual is free from control and direction in connection with the performance of the service, both under the contract for the performance of service and in fact;
(B) the service is performed outside the usual course of the business of the employer; and
(C) the individual is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, profession, or business of the same nature as that involved in the service performed.
(B) seems to have the implications that if you contract as a delivery driver to a delivery business, then you should be classified as an employee, because doing deliveries is usual course of business of the company.
I get what they are trying to do in protecting Gig workers from being exploited, but consider this: I am a self employed software contractor who 1099 contracts to a company whose main line of business is producing the type of software I specialize in. Am I going to be forced to become an employee? We'll see when/if the Senate passes this bill.
This bill has huge ramifications for every professional person who contracts their skills to other companies. EG It could potentially force every independent contractor to become an employee of a staffing company.
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Caveat: I am not a labor lawyer or political analyst so take anything in this post with at least 20kg of salt.
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Am I going to be forced to become an employee?
Perhaps. But then you could always become an employee of a job shop who contracts with with that business to provide your services.
And then you could pull a trick like the one a friend of mine did when Boeing told her that they could no longer hire her as an individual contractor and she would have to work through a job shop. She started her own job shop. With one employee: herself. Now all the tax benefits flow to the business entity instead of to herself personally. But she is the sole owner of that busi
Choice should be up to the individual (Score:2)
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Yes, you should be free to sell yourself into indentured servitude.
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Why is govt stepping in and forcing two private parties on how their business relationship should function if both parties are fine with the arrangement?
If that's a genuine question, then please consider the imbalance of power between employers & employees in the vast majority of cases & especially so in casual labour. Every university Business 101 course preaches that the best/only/most effective way to increase profits is to decrease labour costs. That's the employers' mantra. Now how are workers supposed to negotiate their way through a labour market like that & not end up burnt out & living in poverty (Which happens in countries with wea
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Are you that dumb? Are you that deficient in historical knowledge? Go read up a few books on 19th century industrialism. Go look up piecework. Go read up on the history of the labour movement. Until you've educated yourself, STFU.
Beua Of the Fifth Column already debunked (Score:2, Informative)
TL;DW the law only takes effect if there's an effort to create a Union. Actual Independent contractors generally don't Unionize.
What's impressive is how Beau called it on the talking point the anti-Union crowd would use. Seriously, if you're not already watching BOTFC you should be.
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this talking point. See here [youtube.com]
That's a fair comment and the reviews that I had previously seen hadn't made that distinction.
FWIW I wasn't raising this issue in order to be anti-union.
Oh Yeah, I don't think you were (Score:2)
It makes sense too. They've got the money to do focus groups and research. And they've got 3 24/7 cable news networks, they own most of the local TV channels, all of talk radio and many if not most newspapers. Facebook is also more or less there's too (
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Exactly where is the harm in becoming an employee? The company could create a special class of employee that doesn't get any benefits. With "At will" employment, there is no commitment that you would not already take on as a contractor. Or is this really about having
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It would probably fail any legal challenge. You cant force people to be employees, that is called slavery.
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I mean at least that protects Uber. After all operating a car for hire service is outside the normal course of business for a company that whose core business model is to be a bunch of Tech-bros bilking investors with broken promises and breaking laws.
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Not especially pioneering (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just enforcing basic employment rules that most civilised countries have had since the 19th century.
Re:Not especially pioneering (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just enforcing basic employment rules that most civilised countries have had since the 19th century.
It's funny how some folks want to return to the late 1800's when you didn't have to worry about retirement because you were dead.
The interesting thing, as Joe Scarborough (conservative commentator on MSNBC) noted, is that most people who don't want people to get benefits, are they themselves, getting many benefits.
I suspect that holds true for all the people here that have the "I got mine - fuck you!" outlook.
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I don't want anybody, myself included, to be getting "benefits" from employers. (It is only a little bit better, than getting them from government.)
It is a terrible situation, because you a) don't have much choice; b) lose the benefits together with the job in a crunch.
Of course, limiting choice and otherwise keeping you shackled is what Illiberals are all about — the better to "take care of you" — no s
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I don't want anybody, myself included, to be getting "benefits" from employers. (It is only a little bit better, than getting them from government.)
It is a terrible situation, because you a) don't have much choice; b) lose the benefits together with the job in a crunch.
Of course, limiting choice and otherwise keeping you shackled is what Illiberals are all about — the better to "take care of you" — no surprises here...
The anarchist showed up, owning and drinking the tears of the "Illiberals". You were just born a century too late.
The problem is that to get good people, you have ot give them reasons to work for you. And the idea of the everyone is an independent contractor is not going to entice good people.
Post retirement, I am doing independent contracting. But the amounts I am demanding and getting are quite high, and I also demanded and received W2 rather than 1099 status. It's simple - I got what I demanded, t
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That "reason" is called "money". Just pay me, what you would otherwise spend on my benefits, and I'll spend it the way I want.
And the employers certainly would — if it weren't for the perverse tax-incentives, whereby their paying for my benefits is tax-deductible, but my paying for my own is not...
The rest of your drivel is either incoherent or irrelevant and thus left ignored.
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That "reason" is called "money". Just pay me, what you would otherwise spend on my benefits, and I'll spend it the way I want.
A lot of people do that, and spend the money on themselves. My Wife's best friend's husband did, and it was remarkable the problems he had with SS, Federal, and local taxes, workman's comp, and other stuff.
But something tells me you don't believe in any of that stuff.
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A lot of people do that, and spend the money on themselves. My Wife's best friend's husband did, and it was remarkable the problems he had with SS, Federal, and local taxes, workman's comp, and other stuff.
But something tells me you don't believe in any of that stuff.
I don't get your argument here. If you wife's boyfriend wasn't paying tax then he gets what's coming, why is that my problem?
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And here comes that, not especially pioneering, idea, that politicians know better, how people should be spending their money.
Still haven't grown up yet, have you? Can't live without somebody taking care of you — and want same for everybody else...
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And here comes that, not especially pioneering, idea, that politicians know better, how people should be spending their money.
Still haven't grown up yet, have you? Can't live without somebody taking care of you — and want same for everybody else...
You certainly do make a lot of assumptions. Taxes and all the little details of being an independent contractor aren't complicated. In similar fashion, tame goes for doing my own work on my vehicles. I can do it, it's simple. I do still do all of my motorcycle work for entertainment. But I can have other people do it as well.
All this leaves my time available for more profitable pursuits.
You're stuck in a small frame of mind. So busy worried about small things, Think bigger.
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So, you'd expect other people, who are not as good at motorcycle-repairs, to be getting such repairs from their employers — as a government-mandated "benefit"?
You can — and that's your choice.
The above-mentioned perverse tax-incentives are limiting that choice: yes, you can pay for your own health-insurance, but it will cost you more than it costs your employer, because you will not be able to ded
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So, you'd expect other people, who are not as good at motorcycle-repairs, to be getting such repairs from their employers — as a government-mandated "benefit"?
Are you a bot? You aren't making sense. Sorry, but I work on my motorcycle as a form of relaxation. A hobby as it were. I don't work on my own cars any more because it is not a profitable use of my time. Otherwise, go bother someone else with your non-sequiturs.
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You started this thread to mock the supposed inconsistency of those objecting to employer-provided benefits, who are themselves happily getting their own.
When I pointed out, that there is no inconsistency — we do not want employer-provided benefits, but are forced, by the perverse tax-incentives, to accept them — you stated, that people cannot take care of everything, and that many are happy to delegate benefits-selection to others.
You th
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Yeah, yeah. That's been tried and it doesn't work. So suck it up or go live somewhere else where you can experience the whole horrorshow of Free Market economics in action without shitting on the rest of us.
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The interesting thing, as Joe Scarborough (conservative commentator on MSNBC) noted, is that most people who don't want people to get benefits, are they themselves, getting many benefits.
Did he provide actual examples, or were these 'most people' the same most people used in every lame argument everywhere?
Personally as a contractor I get no benefits. A business advertises a fixed term role, offering a fixed rate and I take it or leave it and that's my only form of compensation. This style of working is not for everyone, you have to be good at your job and stay on top of latest trends to keep getting work, but along with higher risk comes higher reward. So I'm one example that disproves your theory.
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The interesting thing, as Joe Scarborough (conservative commentator on MSNBC) noted, is that most people who don't want people to get benefits, are they themselves, getting many benefits.
Did he provide actual examples, or were these 'most people' the same most people used in every lame argument everywhere?
You'll have to take that up with him. You might even get some TV time as the guy who shuts Joe down with the ripost "Citations please"
Statists gonna State (Score:1)
There is nothing surprising about governments seeking to be more relevant — commanding submission of and control over the citizenry.
And changing rules as they go along too.
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And paying people next to nothing and reducing basic rights is so liberating. I guess you call being a slave the ultimate expression of freedom.
The Spanish gov isnt perfect, but you can be sure they take care of their citizens far more than the gig economy companies do. Which do you think will help Spanish people when their luck is down and they need benefits or
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No idea, what you're talking about.
What "basic rights"? Neither the Life, nor Liberty, nor the Pursuit of Happiness are affected by someone working as an employee or otherwise.
The governments aren't there to "take care" of citizens. Only to ensure the above-enumerated rights. Everything else is mission creep [wikipedia.org] — with governments seeking to expand into and contr
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What utter rubbish, because people need a decent income to be able to feed themselves and so on.
I have no idea why you are making the case for mega corporations, they are not your friend.
> The governments aren't there to "take care" of citizens. Only to ensure the above-enumerated rights. Everything else is mission creep [wikipedia.org] — with gover
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Believe, huh? And we're to accept governments' steady encroachment into our lives because of that religion "some people" hold?
No, the alternative to moving the goal-posts is not anarchy. It is a steady, rather than ever-changing, legal framework.
American gig economy (Score:2)
Evil (Score:1)
If a worker is working on hours they define, they are contract, period. They are free.
Unless the government enslaves them with rationalized B.S. laws like this.
Utter insanity.
Lower quality of life for all Spaniards, while a few progressives - who would never actually hold gig-style jobs *themselves* - get to feel good about their virtue signaling and their 'efforts to help poor people'.
So sa
Is this really what they want? (Score:2)
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Employees have set hours
Not sure where you get that idea from. You seem to be under the impression that there is no middle ground between a 9-5 office worker and some contractor who comes and goes as they pleases. The reality is a good 40% of the workforce would disagree.
This will kill the opportunity for the people doing this in their spare time, or for an hour on here and there for a few extra bucks.
Nope. Contract delivery drivers exist and will continue to exist. What this prevents is some tech bro startup taking advantage of the "gig economy" to fuck over people rightfully considered their employees while making money.
You don't want employees, fine, don't h
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Employees have set hours
Not sure where you get that idea from. You seem to be under the impression that there is no middle ground between a 9-5 office worker and some contractor who comes and goes as they pleases. The reality is a good 40% of the workforce would disagree.
We're not talking office workers or even burger flippers here, TFA is talking specifically about "food delivery riders as employees of the digital platforms they work for, not self-employed,". These platforms were created for part-time, clock in when you want, type of work for people to make a little extra money in their spare time, not as a source of a full time livable income.
Nope. Contract delivery drivers exist and will continue to exist. What this prevents is some tech bro startup taking advantage of the "gig economy" to fuck over people rightfully considered their employees while making money.
No, what this is doing is forcing a company who's purpose is to offer people the opportunity to make money in their spare time t