Venice, Italy Plans to Watch Every Move of Its 30 Million Tourists (cnn.com) 60
Here's some news from CNN for the 30 million tourists visiting Venice, Italy each year:
They're watching you, wherever you walk. They know exactly where you pause, when you slow down and speed up, and they count you in and out of the city. What's more, they're tracking your phone, so they can tell exactly how many people from your country or region are in which area, at which time.
And they're doing it in a bid to change tourism for the better. Welcome to Venice in a post-Covid world....
Before Covid-19 struck, tourists were arriving in often unmanageable numbers, choking the main streets and filling up the waterbuses... Enter the Venice Control Room. On the island of Tronchetto, next to the two-mile bridge separating Venice from the Italian mainland, the Control Room opened in September 2020. A former warehouse that had been abandoned since the 1960s, it's part of a new headquarters for the city's police and government — a self-described "control tower" for the city. The building has offices for the mayor, other dignitaries, and a large CCTV room, with cameras feeding in images from around the city, watched over by the police.
So far so normal. But then, across the corridor, there's the Smart Control Room — another bank of screens with images and information coming live from around the lagoon. They're not being monitored for crime, though; they're feeding information to the authorities that will create a profile of the hordes of people visiting Venice. The hope is that gathering the information will not only track footfall now, enabling the authorities to activate turnstiles and start charging for entrance on busy days. Eventually, they hope that the data will help create a more sustainable tourism plan for the future....
At 10am, the arrivals reached a peak of 2,411: most likely the daytrippers. The authorities can see where these new arrivals are from by analyzing their phone data (the information is all aggregated automatically, so no personal details can be gleaned).... The system took three years to build, at a cost of €3m ($3.5m). And although some might baulk at the privacy implications (although no personal data is recorded, you and your provenance is essentially being logged as you move around the city), the authorities are very proud.
And they're doing it in a bid to change tourism for the better. Welcome to Venice in a post-Covid world....
Before Covid-19 struck, tourists were arriving in often unmanageable numbers, choking the main streets and filling up the waterbuses... Enter the Venice Control Room. On the island of Tronchetto, next to the two-mile bridge separating Venice from the Italian mainland, the Control Room opened in September 2020. A former warehouse that had been abandoned since the 1960s, it's part of a new headquarters for the city's police and government — a self-described "control tower" for the city. The building has offices for the mayor, other dignitaries, and a large CCTV room, with cameras feeding in images from around the city, watched over by the police.
So far so normal. But then, across the corridor, there's the Smart Control Room — another bank of screens with images and information coming live from around the lagoon. They're not being monitored for crime, though; they're feeding information to the authorities that will create a profile of the hordes of people visiting Venice. The hope is that gathering the information will not only track footfall now, enabling the authorities to activate turnstiles and start charging for entrance on busy days. Eventually, they hope that the data will help create a more sustainable tourism plan for the future....
At 10am, the arrivals reached a peak of 2,411: most likely the daytrippers. The authorities can see where these new arrivals are from by analyzing their phone data (the information is all aggregated automatically, so no personal details can be gleaned).... The system took three years to build, at a cost of €3m ($3.5m). And although some might baulk at the privacy implications (although no personal data is recorded, you and your provenance is essentially being logged as you move around the city), the authorities are very proud.
The jokes on them. (Score:1)
I have a landline in Italy. They will never be able to track me!
SUCKERS!
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I don't have a phone like that either.
People like you really annoy me. (Score:2, Troll)
People like you really annoy me.
You have a cellphone, but it is always turned off or you have the sound off. (I'm grouping you together as one irritation here). Sure, whenever YOU want to reach someone, you want to have the practicality of a mobile phone, expecting whoever you call to be available. Yet, you are never available to someone else.
Also, I hate email sent from noreply@
Yes, it is an autogenerated message, but would it be so bad to send it from support@ and give the customer the option of replying?
Re: People like you really annoy me. (Score:1)
Such people also get blocked by me.
First time I find out they are never available, They go into my block list.
And no I do not mean the intention of keeping one's privacy. That is highly respectable. I mean being intentionally annoying.
For the best (Score:1)
It's good to know they're watching your back. And it's for the best, without a system like this, someone might lean against a store-front or stand still on a bridge, god forbid, no but seriously though, they might buy from a street trader, feed a pidgeon, wear a bikini or have a picnic, like, some people are just outrageous.
Re:For the best (Score:5, Insightful)
From a tourist's perspective it's probably a net benefit. Some anonymous data collection in exchange for a better experience of the city.
It's similar to traffic management on roads, only anonymous instead of using your licence plate.
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Sounds to me like they're trying to make Venice as detestable as possible in order to keep tourist numbers down. Only conformists need apply. If you can't put in a surveillance system for nefarious purposes then put one in for 'benevolent' reasons and then quietly make changes later. It wasn't long ago that extensive spying on a whole city was viewed as Orwellian and bad, things have slipped on the slippery slope already.
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London is saturated with cameras, I imagine the various Disney Lands world-wide are as well, tourists go to Bahrain and Dubai for fun... Apparently people just don't care, or at least not enough for them for it to matter.
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Some people don't care and the rest don't have much of a choice in the matter. Right now we have the tories who have implemented more spying and Starmer leading the Labour party, he's gone along with a lot of the right wing crap that the tories wanted so far like allowing police to commit crime without adequate safeguards.
Re: For the best (Score:3)
Go get yourself a spine, mollusc.
Nobody is OK with it. They just do not get to choose what to do. Or even choose what to *want*.
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They could not go to those places. Tourism is optional, as much as I'd like to see parts of the US I choose not to go there.
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They could not go to those places. Tourism is optional, as much as I'd like to see parts of the US I choose not to go there.
It's a pretty nice place, and the hate we get is largely based on exaggerated claims by people that have an agenda. In the "better" nations, a lot of negative things are hidden. We tend to air our dirty laundry for the world to see.
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London is saturated with cameras, I imagine the various Disney Lands world-wide are as well, tourists go to Bahrain and Dubai for fun... Apparently people just don't care, or at least not enough for them for it to matter.
While I'll be pilloried in here for saying it, there is one benefit to the cameras. They can provide an alibi.
As well, it isn't unlike traffic control cameras or the toll road cameras.
If slashdot users are concerned about all the tracking they need to turn their phones off and store them in a metal box while they are off. And don't store them while on, the little beasts ramp up to full power trying to find a tower to connect to.
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God forbid we use cookies on websites.
But tracking tourists? Especially foreign ones that have NO RIGHTS? DEAL.
Fuck the EU and all their bullshit.
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No. Just your face and whereabouts.
Re:For the best (Score:5, Informative)
Venice is like just about nowhere else in combining narrow streets and huge volumes of people (other old cities like Dubrovnik have the same issue but generally on a smaller scale). Loads of people day trip there, the vast majority want to see the same 2-4 things, and there's pretty much a couple of paths 2-4 people wide between them. I've been a couple of times out of season and love it, but even during out of season events like carnivale the crowds are insane. The closest parrallels I can think of are areas around major sport stadiums immediately after a game or areas around massive events like the roads around the Thames after London's New Years eve fireworks, but in Venice it's packed like that for 2-8 hours straight.
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They already have some of the dumbest rules going, I'm not exaggerating what those rules are and they enforce them. How long after this system is installed before some bureaucrat goes hey, we can enforce the rules with this system. Perfectly possible and the system is already perfectly Orwellian. How about treating people with respect and not spying on them 24/7.
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My proposal is they stick with the system they had before.
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Because it's probably aimed at non-EU tourists.
You know
The EU rules the internet and forces everyone to "agree with cookie policies". The EU won't let you host EU citizens data in your country.
Oh but they will stick a tracker up your ass if you're not an EU citizen.
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Sounds sinister (Score:3)
until you see that it's Italy, so it will never happen or they'll lose the data or completely misunderstand it.
They would be better putting the money into a solution for what to do with all the residents once the old part of Venice finally sinks, because it will.
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We can always build on the old sunken buildings....as in the past.
Like we have done at Rome and other old cities in Italy.
Venice has some unique problems. Unless you have a counter-example?
Yeah... it could NEVER happen in Italy... (Score:2)
until you see that it's Italy, so it will never happen or they'll lose the data or completely misunderstand it.
That uniquely famous *never* a FASCIST country.
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until you see that it's Italy, so it will never happen or they'll lose the data or completely misunderstand it.
That uniquely famous *never* a FASCIST country.
That's a different issue; I'm talking about competance.
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Basically, their law enforcement is already "failing" badly.
As soon as there is a database... (Score:4, Insightful)
Disney World Venice! (Score:4, Interesting)
No need to be a libertarian to get uneasy... (Score:2)
Particularly when it's a case of a famously THE fascist country.
You know how they say... Once you suck on Mussolini's cock...
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When my wife and I visited Venice in 2008 for a couple of days, we had an opportunity to speak to some Italians who were there early in our visit. One of them said, "There are no Venetians in Venice. This is Disney World for tourists." Over the next couple of days, it became more and more apparent that Venice is exactly what they (and you) said.
I had to laugh at the fact that they hope to "activate turnstiles and start charging for entrance on busy days." They're well on their way to becoming an actual Disn
And if you do it now you also get ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Are they going to catch all the criminals preying on the tourists ?
pickpockets ?
small con artists ?
snatch & grab thieves ?
I say fat chance.
Only $3.5 million? (Score:5, Interesting)
When was the last time a government took 3 years doing something and only spent $3.5 million? Seems like a tiny amount compared to the apparent scale of the monitoring/surveillance.
My city can spend $3.5 million just thinking about the potential to put in a new traffic light by 2045.
Re:Only $3.5 million? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's because it isn't tracking in the sense that people are implying here. All it's doing is using cell tower data to create a real time map of population density. Most of that 3 years was probably red tape.
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My city can spend $3.5 million just thinking about the potential to put in a new traffic light by 2045.
I'm assuming your city has a population of more than 65000 people, and I'm also going to assume it has more than one traffic light.
Re: Every move you make (Score:2)
Look up the license agreement sometime, mate.
Any license. Even from DOS.
Even old music.
They clearly state the contract is over you getting the right to access [a secret], but not allowed to pass it on.
Things like "ownership" or "rent" are not mentioned, because everyone knows those words make no sense for *information*.
The "intellectual property" unterm is just for show. As is the word "buy" on the buttom next to "Windows 10" or $currentPopularSong. Because the racketeering wouldn't be as effective otherwis
Re: You'd Think They Would Have More Faith (Score:2)
You seem to think they're still in the dark ages.
Also tracking locals (Score:2)
This will also track the Venetians - if it's tracking everyone, it will track the locals too.
I would say "I hope they're OK with that", but I actually hope they're not OK with being tracked everywhere.
Re:Also tracking locals (Score:4, Interesting)
This will also track the Venetians - if it's tracking everyone, it will track the locals too.
I would say "I hope they're OK with that", but I actually hope they're not OK with being tracked everywhere.
Never underestimate just how fed up the locals are of tourists and what measures they'd support to get rid of them.
Public data (Score:2)
As this is data generated by the public, paid for by public funds, will the data be made available for free? As I can see some very interesting business opportunities. One could use the data to check a competitor's visitor count and how they get there, or see which places all the locals go.
Don't worry. (Score:2, Funny)
Love that click bait headline (Score:2)
They're not being monitored for crime, though... (Score:2)
...but when the system is still there in 5 years time, and also in Florence, what won't they be monitored for?
Mussolini just came in his grave. (Score:2)
He had to immediately call Stalin in his grave and share the "joyous" news.
More like 'kill tourism in Italy' (Score:3)
This kind of stuff definitively would turn me off from considering to go now, and definitively start making me suspicious of any other touristic place I might want to go to now.
Perhaps that's the real plan anyways - I bet the local population is sick of all the foreign tourists coming in all the time.
More sustainable tourism (Score:3)
If the issue is that there are too many people, then limit the number of people. Charge admission fees for tourists and ramp up the fees until enough people decide it's too expensive. Venice is isolated!
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If the issue is that there are too many people, then limit the number of people. Charge admission fees for tourists and ramp up the fees until enough people decide it's too expensive. Venice is isolated!
They don't even need to do that. Just have a fixed number of admissions each day. If it gets too full you have to queue and do a one-in one-out scheme. Local residents and those with hotel bookings would be free to enter.
I think the issue with charging is that it sets a pretty bad precedent. Where does it lead? All the nice parts of Europe being turned into exclusive leisure enclaves for the wealthy? That already exists in some places (e.g. the private beaches along the med), and I think it is something we
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That's a fair point. However, if there is a limited number of spots and the price is set too low then there will be rampant scalping and ticket re-selling. If it's important to allow for European tourism, then a discount could be given to people with an E.U. passport, with the required documents to be presented upon entry.
Humans make surveillance necessary. (Score:2)
As populations become extremely dense and tech makes it ever easier to disrupt a delicate high tech society normal (which means savage idiocy) human behavior will require high levels of cooperation once limited to small tribes. The only way to scale that cooperation is social coercion, and the best way to deter bad behavior is certainty of apprehension, not harsh punishment which is socially toxic.
The "American" idea of freedom works in the vast spaces of the old US, not in urban hives which are more like s
Disneyland for tourist cities (Score:2)
Venice is certainly no longer a "real" city. It is a tourist park.
How much does any of this differ from Disneyland? Or other entertainment parks?
What next? Westworld?
Venice is great (Score:2)
I visited Venice a few years ago. Fortunately it wasn't peak tourist season. But still, the main areas were indeed crowded, often unpleasantly so. ... yes, really. Venice is small, and has an astonishing number of tiny streets and alleys, and, gosh, canals.
What was the best thing to do? Get lost
So, if you wanted to get somewhere, you check you map and compass (recommended), and head in the general direction. Occasionally you'd hit a dead end, or a canal without a bridge.
But also you'd wander into tiny squar